Author Topic: Craynerd new workshop project log  (Read 11057 times)

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #25 on: September 08, 2014, 08:23:16 PM »
If you're absolutely broke, Get a shovel and dig out the outside of that corner to see is there is a crack in the foundation wall. If there is, tar (bitumen?) the whole area of the corner and the crack. Dig a trench by shovel to daylight along the perimeter of the building just below the pad. Lay in some 4" perforated drain pipe pitched to daylight. Stick some 6 mil or thicker poly sheeting along the pad and foundation wall along the trench and tuck under the drain. Cover the drain with washed gravel or stone.

On the inside at the corner. steam clean the wall and pad adjacent, mix up some neat Portland cement with some masonry polyvinyl emulsion so it sticks better ,a handfull of clean sand per bucket, dilute to liquid porridge consistency and paint the entire area with this mix using a wide stiff brush. Let cure overnight and do it again, Repeat for a total of three coats. Neat cement is waterproof, and was formerly used to line swimming pools and the outside of ferrocement boat hulls. I have a cistern made of cinderblock, lined with the same and it's been holding for twelve years now.

No guarantees, but if you have more time than money this might do it -- assuming it is a leak. If it's moisture penetrating poor concrete, the tar and Portland cement should also block that.
I love it when a Plan B comes together.

Offline Kjelle

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #26 on: September 09, 2014, 02:09:49 AM »
Chris, this is the best advice you'll get, ever!! This is exactly how I would do it, and it's almost to Swedish building code!! I wish I remember where I saw (didn't save the link), but it was a profile of how it should be done...

As Steve wrote, dig up, check and possibly repair (you could have more than a small crack), paint with bitumen, and do that to the whole sole, get some of the perforated tubing and lay on a gravel bed, and fill with gravel. If you want to make it realy right, dig a trench out from the building, and end the tubs there, in a stone bed...

I wish I could help more... What kind of earth is it around the garage? Gravel (unlikely, drains well), sand, mud, normal earth?

Kjelle

Offline smiffy

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #27 on: September 09, 2014, 03:45:28 AM »
Hi, when converting redundant brick built farm buildings to offices and workshops we regularly encountered problems with damp were it was not possible to screed floor .Our answer was to use sinterproof ,a bitumen based product that is semi liquid .This would be spread on the floor with a stiff broom and also painted up the walls to a height of 1 meter .The walls would then be dry lined  by fixing 1 inch batterns
vertically to the walls 2 foot apart which were covered with 40 mm of high density  insulation and then 12mm shuttering ply .It is important to maintain a air flow between the wall and insulation by drilling regularly spaced holes at the bottom of the wall covering. This is often referred to as tanking a building out and if done correctly is quite cheap and effective. Mike

 

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #28 on: September 10, 2014, 12:51:28 AM »
Seems to me that if you were to adopt Smiffy's solution you could opt to include or not include the insulation layer. If your budget runs to it, insulate. You could also run your electrics behind the drywall and give yourself power outlets where desired. Perhaps you may need slightly thicker battens but probably not.
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #29 on: September 10, 2014, 04:23:12 PM »
Ideally you want to stop the water outside the shell, with backup prevention on the inside. The corner is the only problem reported. Seems like you'd want to look at what is happening on the outside there.
I love it when a Plan B comes together.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #30 on: September 10, 2014, 07:06:02 PM »
Well I appreciate all the comments and suggestions. After three days of dry weather the area is totally dry. I did a test last night in the dark and placed a tourch outside the corner and went inside- I could see the light inside between the joint. I've tonight attempted to seal it and then need some rain. If that cures it I'll go with the liquid dcm and a better job at sealing. If it gets damp then  I'll get digging!

I've been interested in the discussion on insulating the walls. The concrete is well indented with a 1 3/4" cup - can I not use it for insulation or do I need it as well as the air gap. It's only 8' foot wide and I'm worried insulating it is going to really bring it in. Also, what would you use to insulate the roof?

A few more pics how it stands are attached. Still trying to source a door but I also need to fix the concrete run off into the door!!

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Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #31 on: September 11, 2014, 03:10:41 AM »
Hmm, Looking at the second pic I think insulating the roof would be No 1 for me. Galvanized iron is either freezing in winter or roasting in summer. Here in OZ it's the summer heat that is the killer. Still, you would need to leave breathing space between insulation and iron. You could perhaps insulate the indents in the concrete too but I would start with the roof.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline chipenter

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #32 on: September 11, 2014, 03:27:13 AM »
Celotex for the roof it's expensive but the best 50mm or more , you can get plaster board with up to 50mm of polystirene  glued to one side that is use for garages in building called thermaline plus , I would put a surface drain by the door just to be safe .
Jeff

Offline Eugene

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #33 on: September 11, 2014, 04:55:42 AM »
Quote
Still trying to source a door but I also need to fix the concrete run off into the door!!
If you mean the side door, that's dead easy, just lay a few blues across the threshold. I'd also run the cement fillet along the base of the walls, following vtseams suggestion about doing both inside and outside.

If you aren't confident in your bricklaying skills, just give me a call via PM and I'll come over and do the job for you; I've got all the required kit (jet washer, blower / dryer etc.) you'll just need five blue bricks, the one's with "hoildays", and a couple of bags of ready mixed sand and cement. I've also got half a can of bitumen sealer going to seed, so it might be possible to fix some of the other problems too.

Eug






Offline Arbalist

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #34 on: September 11, 2014, 06:48:12 AM »
Typical with these garages, you also have daylight between the walls and the eaves. Plug those gaps as well if you plan to insulate.

Offline Joules

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #35 on: September 11, 2014, 09:22:37 AM »
I would be hatching a plan to insulate the outside and then maybe shiplap the exterior than loose any further space internally.  Also plan on re-roofing with a taller apex and hefty beam for lifting tackle, you never know what the future may bring.  We had a tiny garage here, and checked up with a local planning guy what size garage we could build in its space.  I now have a decent sized workshop I have filled !!! :palm:

          Joules
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #36 on: September 11, 2014, 06:38:33 PM »
walls would then be dry lined  by fixing 1 inch batterns vertically to the walls 2 foot apart which were covered with 40 mm of high density  insulation and then 12mm shuttering ply .It is important to maintain a air flow between the wall and insulation by drilling regularly spaced holes at the bottom of the wall covering. This is often referred to as tanking a building out and if done correctly is quite cheap and effective. Mike

Could you just explain the "regular spaced holes at the bottom of the wall covering" ?

Also would 25mm celotex be acceptable instead of the 40mm - just thinking it`ll take up a little less room - only 15mm - 3cm in total across the width but I only have 8'1" to play with! that's still 24mmx2 batton + 25mmx2 celotex + 12mmx2 for the play - reduced it by 122mm.
Is it worth it - will it help with heating or not really? I think it`ll make it feel warmer!

Can I just say now that I can`t afford to lay a new screed floor. I`m going to go with the digging, check the foundation, get a drain running around the garage to move water away from the footings and then go with a liquid dcm. I`ve just purchased this today.
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Offline smiffy

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #37 on: September 12, 2014, 04:08:43 AM »
Hi The hole size i use is about 50 mm ,cut with a hole saw and spaced 2 feet apart, at any builders merchant you can buy a plastic push in vent normally used in soffit boards etc these are ideal to make a professional looking job .When dealing with any damp in confined spaces
ie between concrete walls and insulation it is important that there is a air gap and that there is  air flow through the gap hence the holes top and bottom . Always fit as much insulation as possible to both walls and roof ,there is nothing worse than trying to work in a cold damp workshop and it protects your tools and equipment . I turned a stone built house with no dpc that was impossible to heat and control the  damp in ,into a house that is almost passive in heat input, by the use of  insulated walls with a 25mm vented air gap then 50mm insulation  and a further 25mm air gap and then plaster board with 200mm insulated in the  roof . Mike

Offline Jonny

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #38 on: September 12, 2014, 05:25:58 PM »
You have it made its so easy to line from the rafters, Its the best thing I ever did 21 years ago but admittedly have a lot more height in the eaves where I lay boxes to keep the noise down.
Mines only 3/16" ply cheap as you will get screwed to rafters. Lighting fixings through ply in to the woodwork. Some years ago I did lay insulation in between the rafters, then some years later lay chipboard floorboard on the top of the rafters and screw together, immensely strong to walk over. I have a hatch like a loft door.
This extra insulation I haven't noticed much if any difference but a massive difference lining the roof with thin ply.

Must be 12 years ago I lined the walls with the cheap 8ftx2ft+? interlocking chipboard meant for floors, this was a worthwhile improvement but take notice of where the battons are to screw shelving to.
Can just about see it in background above dro in magnolia though a few years ago http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n563/Jonhareng/Jons%20machining/4DROCompareGlassMagneticinitialmovement004.jpg

Doing what I have is perhaps the cheapest method, no doubt the celotex is better but you seen the price of one slab - about the cost of doing 1/2 the whole wall or ceiling with little advantage or in my case inferior as cant hang shelving up or hang aluminium and steel lengths from ceiling between the lighting.

For me I would black dip the walls (bitumen) and seal up the gaps prior to battoning.
Cheap 3mm ribbed rubber matting will massively help with the floor, but might only last 18 months, go thicker. It expands in summer and bubbles, walked over creating tears as it shrinks. Also a pain with shovel and swarf though broom not too bad n straight lines. Also helps with the dropsies.

Offline Pete.

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #39 on: September 13, 2014, 02:07:50 AM »
There's no way I would put up with a floor like that when I could fix it for 100 in materials and a weekend's hard work.

One of these: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-1000-Gauge-Blue-Damp-Proof-Membrame-4x12-5m/p/152859

One of these: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Wickes-Sharp-Sand-Jumbo-Bag/p/220081

Ten of these: http://www.wickes.co.uk/Lafarge-Blue-Circle-Cement-25kg/p/224661

And you have a new floor dry, flat and smooth. Plus you've raised the floor level to stop anything that gathers outside the door troubling you. Laying it could not be easier - just cut the poly 6" over-size all around, lay it in and tape it to the walls to stop it moving. Throw a few shovels of sand/cement mix around the edge if you like to keep it down.

Cut a piece of stout timber to fit across the bottom of those concrete panels on the recess and fix a board to it to hang down to where you want your floor height to be. This is your levelling tool. It has to be able to slide left and right but not fall off either end.

Either borrow a mixer or get a nice flat area to work on. Start at the far end and draft in some help coz without a mixer it's going to be a long day. Shovel out 3 sand 1 cement 3 sand one cement all into a rough heap and turn it over till it's a uniform colour. Now add a LITTLE water and turn it over to make it damp so it will just clump in your hand enough to hold shape but not have a shiny surface. Now just shovel it in. Do a couple or three rounds then spread it out with your levelling tool. Ram the corners and edges lightly with a block of wood or club hammer head to pull the DPM down into the corner. Scrape one panel level then hop your scraper over to the next gap. Scrape than too then trowel the bit in between where your scraper won't fit. Work your way across to the door then start again the other end. Do the last bit later when either side has cured a bit. Once it's all dry, trim the poly offabout 10mm high from the floor around the edges until you're sure no damp is coming in through the walls.



Offline RussellT

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #40 on: September 13, 2014, 05:33:50 AM »
Hi Chris

I had a new concrete garage at one time.  It was dry, so there's no fundamental reason why yours shouldn't be.

The concrete fillet has to be on the inside - a fillet on the outside just guides the water running down a wall under the walls.  The joints between sections were simply filled with mastic.

I assume the roof is some sort of cement panel rather than steel.  I didn't get condensation on those but I had a couple of clear panels for light which did suffer from condensation.

Insulation is nice but remember it only keeps heat in - it's no use if you don't have some heating in there.

I found the bolts holding the panels together useful for fastening shelves. You can bolt a length of angle iron to the wall and weld shelf brackets to it.

I had trouble with water being blown under the door.  I used cement and made a barrier just inside the door - like a mini speed bump about half an inch high - I could still wheel stuff over it but it stopped the water.

Has the garage got gutters?  Do the down pipes get the water clear of the concrete base?

Russell

Offline raynerd

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #41 on: September 17, 2014, 01:23:19 PM »
Sorry for the slow replies but I'm without internet for a further two weeks!

There have been many suggestions and I can't do them all but I've used a lot of suggestions. I sealed the gap I could clearly see in the edge and I then applied a bitumen based flexible damp course membrane - 3 coats, 3' up the wall and a couple of foot into the floor. I've then battened the wall and I'm adding insulation boards and 12mm ply to make the walls. It's going to take me a few more days but I'm getting there.

I've bricked up the door bottom opening with one layer of engineering brick and cut the door down to fit but I still need a new door. Next job is to dig more concrete up and provide a drain around the garage.
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #42 on: October 11, 2014, 08:12:15 PM »
Hi guys, 5 weeks in the new house and I've still no proper internet connection (thanks to Sky buts that's another story!!). Just wanted to update you in that I'm now on the new workshop, I moved all my new stuff in today and I'm really pleased with it! I'm not 100% happy with the arrangement but I'll be tinkering and tidying over the next few days. I'll take some pics soon.

I battened and insulated the walls and used ply to face the walls. I used OSB3 on the floor and painted it with floor paint but I admit, I think I'm still going to put some PVC mats down where I stand. All is good so far!

Chris
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #43 on: July 26, 2016, 12:44:27 PM »
18 months later... Not everyone's style of video I know, but it makes it fun to edit and use my camera...

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2OXDgFW6uk" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A2OXDgFW6uk</a>
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Offline mechman48

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #44 on: September 13, 2016, 10:48:34 AM »
Hi Reynard
Nice shop & kit. One question... I have attempted to upload video of my latest project, a simple S10V, & have followed the instructions from the forum heading 'posting a video from YouTube' but am always getting the copied URL in hyperlink format, I can never seem to upload the actual video into the post. I am running the new Win10 using IE but the pages that come up on YouTube bear only some resemblance to the instructions. I would appreciate you describing the process you used to embed your video in posting, either pm me or as another posting on here, as is usual there must be something very easy that I've missed & is not registering in my old grey matter.

Much appreciated.
George.
George.


Always look on the bright side of life, & remember.. KISS..' Keep It Simple Stupid'

Online philf

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Re: Craynerd new workshop project log
« Reply #45 on: September 13, 2016, 11:15:50 AM »
<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBoHBX14h0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5eBoHBX14h0</a>

George,

You need only to post the YouTube number as follows:

Code: [Select]
[youtube]5eBoHBX14h0[/youtube]
Copy the number from your YouTube video URL; Either type the youtube and /youtube in square brackets or hit the YouTube button (which will do this for you) and paste the number in the middle.

Hope this helps.

Cheers.

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire