Help Needed From the CNC Guys

[75Plus]

I recently purchased a Grizzly G3617 mill from an estate. The same mill is sold as an HM-52 down under. It had been retrofitted to 3 axis CNC with three Nema 42 stepper motors along with a 3 axis motor control unit. There was also an older computer that had some control software installed. The question I have is what else do I need to get this thing on line. There appears to be a missing link between the computer and the motor controllers.

[John Stevenson]

We need photos of the controller box you mention

[75Plus]

Here are the pictures John. Appears to just be three discrete controllers, a couple of power supplies and a 25 pin parallel port to tie them all together. The software is by Flashcut CNC and refers to a signal generator to allow Windows to run the program.  That is why I think something is missing.

[John Stevenson]

Bit out of my depth on this one as never had any experience with Flashcut but they are still around and have a web site.

[Swarfing]

Assuming the machine is using steppers and not servos, then that looks like just three drivers and a BOB. If this is the case then you have everything you need. Go load up linuxcnc or the trial version of Mach3 and give it all ago. I say that simply but you will need to find a few things out like what pins are connected to what and that can be done with a simple volt meter or small bulb.

Going to need a few more detailed pictures of the boards especially of the connections and any labels of those pins. I can't read the labels in the pics so get as close as possible.

[Swarfing]

That empty space by the way looks like space for another driver (4th axis)?

[vtsteam]

I kinda remembered Flashcut had a proprietary step generator of some sort, and the software was keyed to that.

75Plus it sounds like you already might have replacement single axis controllers that don't need it, as Swarfing says. However If they are still part of Flashcut's original hardware setup, and can't work otherwise, single axis controllers have become very reasonable in price these days.

[Swarfing]

Mind you with the size of those steppers at least 8 amp drivers will be needed and don't ditch the power supplies. I'm not familiar with flashcut so don't know about any special setup with the hardware. It's still worth a try while no money has to be spent? should also get 75plus familiar with the setup at the same time.

[vtsteam]

Might be some clues to what 75Plus has if there were brand names anywhere on the box or in the controllers.

I did a search on "proprietary" and "flashcut" and coincidentally came up with you, JS, back in 2007:

http://bbs.homeshopmachinist.net/threads/26736-Free-CAM-software-DXF-G-Code-any-out-there?p=321660#post321660

Maybe "proprietary pulse generator", just means stepper controller now? I don't really know.....

--- or is it like a clock signal generator, to get around the lag problems with windows......??

[75Plus]

The drivers and the stepper motors are both supplied by Anaheim Automation. They are still current production even though the driver package has a 2006 date on the transformers. The steppers are AA 42Y112S-LW8 and the driver pack is an AA DPG10003-01. The discrete drivers, inside the pack are MBC10641 Micro Step Drivers. Here are some of the connections that I hope may help. 

The current Flashcut CNC offering has the signal generator and driver package as an integrated unit and a price close to what I paid for the mill. They no longer support the version (2.41) that was current when my rig was put together.

[75Plus]

--- or is it like a clock signal generator, to get around the lag problems with windows......??

This is the stated reason Steve, Windows lag due to Windows multitasking during operation.

[vtsteam]

Well Mach uses software methods to get around the latency problem and drives the controllers directly, as Swarfer was saying. That's if you use Windows.

Another, more rudimentary possibility is to use TurboCNC under DOS if your computer is old enough to run DOS. DOS avoids most of the lag problems and the interrupts are set to favor the CNC program.

I used to use that, but switched to Linux since I use that as my everyday OS.

I use LinuxCNC under Ubuntu on a dedicated computer. LinuxCNC gets around the lag problem (with a suitable computer -- some aren't) by using a special Real Time Linux kernel. The program also includes a latency test program to check if your computer is suitable. You can get LiveCD versions of LinuxCNC that don't require installing to your hard drive (at least to test it out).

But most people in the hobby world seem to use Mach.

[vtsteam]

75Plus, maybe you have an intact Flashcut system after all.

Check to see if you have anything connected between pins 2 and 6 of the MBC10641's -- that would be the pulse generator. Doesn't seem like it would be a very complicated circuit -- it's just a clock.

[Swarfing]

These really do look like typical drivers, the latest ones according to the site are mains input. The clock generator they refer to i believe is just what the resolution (microsteps) are set to, this would be done from Switch one and stepper current from the VR. The parallel connector is just standard bi directional setup so would just plug in and give one of the freebies a go. Nothing to lose and would give a starting point to work from.

[vtsteam]

Swarfing, should be possible. Also If it does have a hardware clock signal already, can't Mach can work with that too.?
Pretty sure LinuxCNC can, as well, so either way, it looks do-able.

I think a hardware clock signal is better than software generated, if the generator is still there.

[Swarfing]

That's it then, 75Plus you've been told now get on with 

[75Plus]

Have a look at this Ebay listing. The box on top is what I think is missing. I am afraid, without it, the software that came with the mill is worthless.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/FLASHCUT-CNC-FLASHCUTCNC-3020-MOTOR-DRIVE-SIGNAL-GENERATOR-CABLES-NICE-FREESHIP-/261508619130?pt=BI_Control_Systems_PLCs&hash=item3ce320db7a

[Swarfing]

The setup they show in that add is different from what you have (way to new). I see no connection on your box for any other hardware so we can only go by what we see. Until you fire it up and do a little probing you will not know falling short of documentation to give us a guide.

[Swarfing]

Sorry just noticed that you do have the MBC10641 just without the covers on. The full doc has this in the introduction say may need the hardware clock
'The clock input is set to receive
either positive or negative edge clocks with a maximum frequency of 400KHz.'
Might be easier to sell this control unit and replace with new BOB and drivers?

[vtsteam]

75Plus was there anything connected internally between Pins 2 and 6 of the three MBC10641s?


I don't think you need a new set of controllers even if you don't have the pulse generator. I think that can probably be supplied by your computer via the parallel port (usually through a parallel port break-out board) to each of your three MBC10641controllers by newer software than Flashcut. Or you could hard-wire it without a break-out board, if you know what you're doing.

I think the "clock" pulse is probably just the step pulse that most CNC software now outputs. And that can be positive going or negative going as set by software and/or your connection to the controller. And you can set the max step rate to suit the 400 kHz requirement in software.

You won't be able to use the old version of Flashcut, but you can probably use TurboCNC (free), Mach (free demo), or LinuxCNC (free). All of these provide the step pulse through the parallel port.

I thought that was what you said earlier Swarfer?

[vtsteam]

If you substitute the words "STEP signal" for the words "Pulse Generator" on the schematic, hook the appropriate pins of the parallel cable to it, change software to a newer CNC program, and follow the the software setup procedure, I think you're good to go.

[vtsteam]

Just found a mention on the web about converting a Flashcut system to a mach system (same would apply to LinuxCNC or TurboCNC. This one does not make modifications to the Flashcut Signal Generator driver box. It simply makes up a new parallel port converter cable that attaches to the Generator box jacks and brings them together to a new parallel printer plug for the computer. These jacks probably just pass the driver signals through to the cable that connects the Pulse Generator box to the Driver box.

While you don't have the Signal Generator box, it does seem that you can directly drive the stepper drivers by just using a parallel cable, and using alternative software, bypassing the whole Flashcut system.

Nonetheless, your Flashcut Signal Generator has a DB25 plug on the back
of it for the motor signals, as well as two mini-fit jr. plugs for Input
and Output lines. A quick look in the FC manual will show you exactly
what those wires are for, and you can easily make adapter plugs to go
from those 3, right into a single or dual plug to go to a parallel port.
That way you can switch back and forth if you choose to.

Shouldn't cost you more than a few bucks for plugs and wire. Likely you
will spend more time dialing in the Mach software than you will making
the adapter plug(s).

[Swarfing]

Vsteam you are totally right. There is a lot of conflicting info out there about the need for the pulse generator but looking further with other people using linuxcnc, they seem to be using it fine without it, so back to my original thought....hook it up and give it a whirl 75Plus