Author Topic: Steam Engine Design Help Needed  (Read 4602 times)

Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« on: March 15, 2015, 09:02:44 PM »
Hey guys , new member here, looking for info, help with engine. What I'm wanting to do is build a steam engine. Mill type 3 x 5. However, I cant find an engine, plans, patterns , or anything in this size.I've about worn my computer out searching for info.Is there anybody here that knows of something close? Or maybe someone with experience willing to work with me on designing an engine, getting the patterns made and cast?

Online SwarfnStuff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Country: au
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #1 on: March 16, 2015, 03:06:48 AM »
Hi Sackett,
   I tried typing "Model Mill Engine Plans" into a search engine, Nothing with the quotes so tried without and there were plenty of pages to check. You may have already done this but you could then refine your search with sizes and see if it helps.
Good hunting, and I 'm sure someone on here will have a better solution for you.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline RussellT

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 376
  • Country: gb
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #2 on: March 16, 2015, 04:46:11 AM »
How about Elmer's No 33.

Google Elmer's mill engine.

Russell

Online sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3486
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2015, 04:55:36 AM »
Hey guys , new member here, looking for info, help with engine. What I'm wanting to do is build a steam engine. Mill type 3 x 5.

What do you mean by Mill type 3*5 ?.

However, I cant find an engine, plans, patterns , or anything in this size.I've about worn my computer out searching for info.Is there anybody here that knows of something close? Or maybe someone with experience willing to work with me on designing an engine, getting the patterns made and cast?

You need to constrain you're ideas:- Do you want to use casting or fabrication, existing design new design, how large, what machinery do you want to make it on etc etc coming up with a clear list of constraints helps you to formulate the design.

Try searching through this site for ideas of the type of engine you want to build http://www.archives.gov/ if you put in a search for steam engines there are lots of old books with sketches drawing that will help the crative process but be warned you can get lost in their.

Good luck

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline BronxFigs

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 54
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2015, 07:36:16 AM »
Hello Sackett-

If you mean a steam engine with approximately a 3.00" X 5.00" Bore/Stroke ....depending on you skill level, your equipment, your imagination, etc....

I would start by searching for companies that sell/make steam engines that will power small steam-launches. 

Try:
Tiny Power Steam Engines
Pearl Steam Engine
Elliot Bay Steam launch
Reliable Steam Engines
Mike Brown Steam Engines

Many of these companies will sell you complete casting kits, or, just castings for a cylinder, crankshaft, and valve chest... then, make the rest from bar-stock, plate steel, aluminum...whatever.  You could also make the whole engine from bar-stock.  Buy drawings for a "vertical", and fabricate a new base.   Modify the design and make it look like a Mill-type engine.  Adapt available designs and make the engine into what YOU want it to be.  It can, and has been done, but if you are a just a beginner, I would seek help from those who are experienced  with this sort of thing.  You will also need a certified, correctly built, boiler to power your engine.  Seek help, and heed advice about boilers.  Seek help, and heed advice about boilers!  An engine failure is one thing....a boiler failure can be deadly.

Try:  You-Tube videos for additional ideas.
Try:  Scaling up, and modifying some existing designs.

Sorry, can't help you with casting, machining, etc.  But if you buy some parts, like the cylinder and valve chest, etc. maybe you will not need to design and then cast some of the other parts.  Use Bar-stock, plate, weldments, etc.

Don't be daunted.  Go for it, and have fun doing it.


Frank




Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2015, 09:22:36 AM »
Yeah, I guess a bit more info would help. I've looked at elmers n tiny power n coles n stuarts n I dont know how many more.The engine I'm looking for is usualy called mill type or box bed . They were designed to power shops and mills. Horizontal 3in bore x 5inch stroke is idealy what I'm looking, but close would work,
I need something for real work at off grid site for battery charging, water pumping , grain grinding ect, general main power source. I can find lots of pics n old engravings, but no plans that I could use to make patterns, n sadly I lack the drafting skills to do it myself.Found a foundry on west coast willing to help with patterns and casting ,,but no plans yet

Online sbwhart

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3486
  • Country: gb
  • Smile, Be Happy, Have Fun and Rock Until you Drop
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2015, 09:43:57 AM »
This is the engine you want.



The engine is at the Northern Mill Engine Society at Bolton http://www.nmes.org/ they have maintenance days every Wednesday if you go along I know they will make you welcome and let you photograph and measure the engine to death.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2015, 10:08:15 AM »
Thanks sbwharts,, sadly I'm in states,,although I guess one could email n see if any plans / drawings available. But yes that engine looks about right

Offline Jasonb

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 449
  • Country: gb
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #8 on: March 16, 2015, 02:41:52 PM »
You could base it on something like the Clarkson 2x2 which could easily be scaled up to 3" bore and stretched out a bit more but I would tend to keep it a shorter stroke and have it reving a bit faster, most of the steam driven gen sets use enclosed crankcase high speed steam engines.

This is a picture of the clarkson that I found on the net, castings would be quite simple or would not be hard to do it all by fabrication or cutting from solid. Flywheel on the 2x2 is 6" so 9-10" on a 3inch bore version, as its to work and not look at a soldi disc flywheel would be fine.



Blackgates here in the UK now own teh rights so should be able to supply plans

Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #9 on: April 05, 2015, 08:43:08 PM »
Working on some drawings,although progress is slow. Another member has contacted me offering some assistance, which is greatly appreciated.Maybe we can get this project moving along soon.
I kinda backed into a deal this past week,,,3200+ lbs of Millwauke horizontal milling machine ,,, for peanuts. Yeah, I know its obsolete , n no havent seen it run ,, but one's gotta start somewhere :beer:

Offline billmac

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
  • Country: gb
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #10 on: April 24, 2015, 11:57:56 AM »
Stew's recommendation should match what you are looking for very well. That engine was designed to be moved around and coupled up where it was needed to run a tool or whatever. Think of it as the portable power source of its day. The valve timing is quickly adjustable for running in either direction and it is about as simple as a useful steam engine can get. Of course you will need a source of steam and unless you have a boiler, that could be more of a problem than the engine.

I work at the museum and was cleaning that engine the other day ready for one of our steam days. It is a pity that you won't be able to see it running. If you look at our website http://www.nmes.org/ under 'Other Engines' you will see a photo of it from the other side and without cladding etc. You could design (or ask someone else to design) a similar engine from this level of detail for yourself; Stew has already done a model of this engine, but was probably too modest to mention it.

I suggest that you work out how much power you will need from your engine. I don't know how much power is needed to grind grain but I would be a bit concerned that you are underestimating your power needs. I assume you are not going to be running your horizontal mill from this engine? If you need a bigger engine, you will need a proportionately bigger boiler. Steam engines are very inefficient (wonderful though they are!) so if you are planning to run off-grid and need a fair amount of power, you will need a readily available and cheap fuel source. A useful sized boiler has its own costs and issues, not the least of which is the legal need (in UK anyway) for periodic boiler inspections.

The museum has lots of engines, some just a bit bigger than this one, so I suggest you have a look at the website and perhaps get some more ideas of scale etc.




Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #11 on: July 06, 2015, 09:16:27 AM »
Thanks guys, still plugging along,,not much progress on drawings,,,but did find small Atlas / Craftsman late, n got it set up n going. Still looking for plans tho

Offline Pete49

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 310
  • Country: au
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #12 on: July 06, 2015, 08:25:32 PM »
did you look at John toms site? I seem to have lost the link but sure someone can come to the rescue
Pete
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Online SwarfnStuff

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 450
  • Country: au
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #13 on: July 07, 2015, 01:30:31 AM »
You mean this one Pete? www.john-tom.com/ A good source of plans but you have to dig around a bit.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline beeshed

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 10
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #14 on: July 13, 2015, 01:22:19 PM »
What you need to do is look for steam launch engines. There is an active steam boat following in the UK so there will be one in the USA too. These are people who want working engines in typically 1-3hp size and therfore produce designs and casting that meet those needs.
It appears you want the engine to operate rather like a dairy engne of the late 19th century. The box bed or mill engines would need constant attention and run relatively slow. A vertical would be better suited and there are some simple oscillator (still big) that would be easier to make.
If you are thinking this is a practical concept because you have a plot with lots of timber think again. A well known steam enthusiast in the UK Bob Symes set up a small industrial quality engine and boiler coupled to a wood saw. He said it just about cut enough wood to feed itself but not a lot more.

Offline DavidL

  • Newbie
  • *
  • Posts: 2
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #15 on: February 23, 2016, 08:38:54 PM »
Hi Sackett
Did you ever find drawings that suited you?

Offline Sackett

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 34
Re: Steam Engine Design Help Needed
« Reply #16 on: February 27, 2016, 01:26:21 PM »
Not yet ,David, still looking. There's a guy on west coats that I've just found out about. Might have a bit of luck there,,still need to contact him.