Author Topic: How do i; find a good set of shop files.  (Read 14986 times)

Offline NeoTech

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How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« on: August 05, 2015, 01:10:03 PM »
I have bought these chinese crap'o'files off of ebay for a while now.. but they reaally gum up, and wear down fast.. as if they arent hardened.. So im in the hunt for a good set of files.. with different coarseness and shapes..

anyone has any tip?
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline Fleety

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #1 on: August 05, 2015, 06:26:15 PM »
 Looking at the flag below your user name I would go with a set of bahco files,  that's all I've ever used for day to day work.

Rory

Offline Jonny

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #2 on: August 05, 2015, 08:39:07 PM »
Difficult one all the quality files went down the pan around 2003 far inferior to todays offerings and don't last 1/3 as long.
Same with saw blades.

By todays standards Swiss Vallorbe are good for 2nd cut but are pricey. Can only compare Bahco as at 2005, when an apprentice brought in his own and was a bit shocked how they had worn in two days with little productivity compared to old English and Vallorbe
To save some money its very rare you would need a fine pitch I could have easily have lived without if didn't have any, just filing end product with 2nd cut to microns and a polish, or scrap hours of work.

Would recommend a 12" bastard, again hard to find good ones though do have some marked Bison that have done serious use over a week. Should last a shop many years.


Its really a lot of trial and error as to what lasts and can be an expensive one as some of the lesser known names are as good in certain files.


Offline crankshafter

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2015, 07:32:16 AM »
Hi NeoTech.
Øbergs Filer AB  in your "neighborhood" is a known Swedish producer of high quality files. A little on the high side regarding cost (atlest her in Norway) but they are worth it.
CS

Offline PeterE

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2015, 12:14:31 PM »
Hi Neotech,

Just read this post and my recommendation would be either Öbergs or BACHO. Öberg as 1st chioice.

Mine are all BACHO or Öberg.

BR

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

RobWilson

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2015, 02:53:50 PM »
Hi Neotech,

Just read this post and my recommendation would be either Öbergs or BACHO. Öberg as 1st chioice.

Mine are all BACHO or Öberg.

BR

/Peter


I second that ,,,,,,,,,,,,,I do like my Bacho files  followed closely by Sandvik  :dremel:


Rob

Offline sparky961

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2015, 04:27:24 PM »
I don't doubt that if they're Chinese, they're crap.  Although I've found a few good things from there, I generally expect low quality when considering a purchase.

With that out of the way, consider your use and care as well.  You mention "gumming up", which may have more to do with the material you're filing, the match between file coarseness and material hardness, the cleanliness of your file, and perhaps speeds and pressure too.  The latter seems to have more effect on premature dulling and chipping though.

Generally the harder the material, the finer the file.  The softer the material, the coarser the file.  Mix this up and you'll always be loading up your file with material.

Think of what kind of surface speed the file teeth are experiencing in use.  You probably want to be in the HSS range or lower for whatever material you're working with.

Try slowing things down a lot, keeping your files cleaned and chalked, and you may find that you get more life out of a cheap set.

Sorry if any of this seems seems obvious to you, but I've watched even experienced machinists murder a file due to ignorance.

Offline Jonny

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2015, 07:32:19 PM »
In all fairness Neo knows when some things crap.

Wont say how good I was but certainly currently in the top 50 filers worldwide and never read a book in my life or had tuition.
Cant say I never chalked a file, I tried it then no more.
Best advice is like most things 'get a feel for whats happening' Once learnt you will find any individual irregularities on each stroke, whether its cutting or not or more to the point whether its picked up and lodged debris in its teeth without looking. Soon as feel it picking up, change direction which should do any way, simple. Changing direction dislodges you just don't use a file in a forward stroke only such as a dovetail, no body told you.

Want to remove metal give it some no pussy footing around use a 3 square bastard 12", use the length of the file in one swoop diagonally at 50 to 80 rpm often changing directions barely moving feet. Some of us worked for a living anything less than around 30 full on 12" strokes a minute you were out the door, a files nothing comparatively to labour and overhead costs and usually the part making.

Mill scales the worst for knackering files up. Used to keep previous two of that type of file for similar situations.

Done some checking up seems all Bahco files are made in Portugal since 1992 owned by Snapon since 1999.
Do have a Bahco organiser for thread cutting inserts. For me to recommend I would have to personally see how they cut but are available every where cornering the market.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #8 on: August 09, 2015, 11:52:32 AM »
Hi Neotech,

Just read this post and my recommendation would be either Öbergs or BACHO. Öberg as 1st chioice.

Mine are all BACHO or Öberg.

BR

/Peter

Hmm where do you buy Öbergs then? I have had tried som Bacho's and not entirely convinced. Sandvik is a close competitor but i wanna keep my appendages and balls.. ;)
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline PeterE

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #9 on: August 09, 2015, 12:16:31 PM »
Hi Neotech,

Just read this post and my recommendation would be either Öbergs or BACHO. Öberg as 1st chioice.

Mine are all BACHO or Öberg.

BR

/Peter

Hmm where do you buy Öbergs then? I have had tried som Bacho's and not entirely convinced. Sandvik is a close competitor but i wanna keep my appendages and balls.. ;)
It was quite some time now, but I found them at a Sjörgens/Tools store at the time. Some of the items are not always on stock so these ones had to be ordered from central warehose somewhere.

The big ones in my collection are all 250mm/10" Bacho but the 100mm/4" ones are Sandvik & Öberg. The large ones work very well. Try to get a course variety (bastard) as that one will be good for initial work and then the standard medium or fine files will do the rest. The course one(s) may well be quite long for long effective strokes as well.  I am on the lookout for a 12 to 14" medium-course.

Just checked the Tools product range and they also have Nicholson files which I also have quite good experience from. Would be interesting to know from others about the Nicholson range.

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #10 on: August 09, 2015, 05:17:49 PM »
I have had some old files. Good and bad. I use one Indian made long file quite a bit and it is ok, but needs constant carding. Lucily you can find those File Card Brushes a lot of places when you know what to look for.

I have some Bachos, made in several contries, some are ok and available.

Pekka

Offline Jonny

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #11 on: August 10, 2015, 10:11:30 AM »
Nicholson went down the pan about 8 years ago. Prior to that on a like for like they would average 3 days use before junking, around 2008 +/- a bit they went off in a morning and had it by day 1.

Had a quick look through a few the other day and shocked to see many superb files with no name mainly English. Also noticed Sandvik of old as in 80's and surprised to see a few Swedish Oberg AB, some just marked Oberg presume Portugal and very good but no where near as good as English Stubbs and the like from 30+ years ago.
Fairly recent circa 2008 Austrian Bludan 2nd cut knife files don't cut and don't last as well as Vallorbe which in turn went down the pan around 2003.

If you come across any old Viiala from Finland these are very good.

Have a nice half round 12" Millenicut, brilliant on aluminiums and hard woods, still available and cheap ish. If others in the line up are as good I would go this route.  http://www.haywaytools.com/shop/hand-tools/files/millenicut-files

Speedicut by the old Firth and Brown pretty good, still cut better worn with visual flats on cutting edges than new Bahco.


Offline rotorhead

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #12 on: September 10, 2015, 05:45:07 PM »
Hi Folks,

Just thought I'd answer this post as it prompted me to look for some files, as mine are coming to the end of their useful life.

I looked on eBay and found a smooth 12" round file listed as 'Bahco' and bought it on that strength, I couldn't find any name rolled round the tang end where it usually is, so whatever...

Before that, I'd perused a site under the name of Lawsons HiS, I've used them before for machine hacksaw blades and silver steel(drill rod), found they do 'Blundell' files, never heard of them, but they were cheap enough to try out...

I ordered and received 3 off 12" unhandled(my choice), a 'Bastard', a 2nd Cut(Medium) and a Smooth...

This week I've had chance to use all 3 variants, and am delightfully surprised, they cut excellently with great ease, for steel I always oil them, for Al Alloy spray them with release oil(WD40 equivalent), for cast iron dry....

So I can really recommend these 'Blundell' files, as I'll be buying them again as and when, hope this helps someone....
Chris
Sunny Scunny,
North Lincolnshire.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #13 on: September 10, 2015, 07:17:35 PM »
I actually ended up buying "Primax" files from germany. They were 3-4 euro each so i bough every shape possible in the 1-2-3 models there is.
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #14 on: September 11, 2015, 07:42:47 AM »
New shop here offers Nicholson. How bad they are against modern competition like Bacho et.al?

Is there anymore european produced quality files for metal work?

There are some shops here selling Grobet and Vallorbe, but most of those are intended for wood working folks and they are sharpening saws and stuff, I like big flat single row with one side "safe".

Pekka

Offline philf

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #15 on: September 11, 2015, 11:07:49 AM »

Before that, I'd perused a site under the name of Lawsons HiS, I've used them before for machine hacksaw blades and silver steel(drill rod), found they do 'Blundell' files, never heard of them, but they were cheap enough to try out...

So I can really recommend these 'Blundell' files, as I'll be buying them again as and when, hope this helps someone....

Blundell Files are/were in Prescot, Merseyside. I used to have a catalogue but suspect I binned it.

I bought a pivot file from them direct perhaps 20 years ago.

Prescot was the centre of the Lancashire watchmaking industry.

I'd be interested to find out if Blundells are still in business.

Phil.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2015, 11:46:19 AM by philf »
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #16 on: September 11, 2015, 04:05:52 PM »
Jonny said: Difficult one all the quality files went down the pan around 2003 far inferior to todays offerings and don't last 1/3 as long.
Same with saw blades.


What do you think happened at the time the quality suddenly reduced. Was it a case of the earlier files being made of carbon steel and through hardened and then for cost saving the latter ones were made of something inferior and just case hardened? ..........OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline rotorhead

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #17 on: September 11, 2015, 04:37:10 PM »
Hi Phil,

Just Googled Blundells Files and this came up--->   BLUNDELL (FILES & TOOLS) LIMITED, 12 Skipton House, Thanets Yard, Skipton, BD23 1EE, UNITED KINGDOM. Tel 01514 266745

There were also listings for them being in Prescot since 1976, but they don't have their own web page that I found.

As far as the files supplied, no name was on them, I would have thought that a GB/UK manufacturer would want them so stamped, so they may be other make.

They do seem so far to be very good, I'll definitely be throwing out my old ones....
Chris
Sunny Scunny,
North Lincolnshire.

Offline philf

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #18 on: September 11, 2015, 05:18:14 PM »
Hi Rotorhead,

On more investigation, it seems that James Blundell & Sons of Prescot was dissolved in 1998 after being in business since 1907.

Farnell used to sell Blundell Files and when you click on the data sheet it brings up an Ajax Blundell catalogue - the Ajaz part being a Czec file manufacturer.

Blundell (Files & Tools) Ltd seems to have started life in 1998 at Prescot (same address - Pottery Fields) but has had several addresses including the Skipton address before moving back to Pottery Fields, Prescot in 2012.

I'm wondering if they're still manufacturing files or just importing them.

Phil.
Phil Fern
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Offline rotorhead

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #19 on: September 11, 2015, 10:07:35 PM »
Thanks for the extra info Phil, seems your more than likely right about not being the actual manufacturer...
Chris
Sunny Scunny,
North Lincolnshire.

Offline Arbalist

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #20 on: September 12, 2015, 04:47:37 AM »
All my files seem good but that's probably because they were all bought a long while back. Why don't you try looking for some old ones? There are lots of second hand tools at various shows these days and of course car boot and garage sales.

Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #21 on: September 12, 2015, 05:57:20 AM »
Well boot sales and second hand tools is not that common in Sweden. Its not even easy to get hold of them on auctions and such because tool trading companies attend these and drives up the prices.
Would even say that "garage sales" is not something that ever occur.. i have seen flea markets in the south parts of Sweden, but its really a odd curiosity here. =)
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Offline hermetic

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #22 on: September 12, 2015, 01:13:00 PM »
Well boot sales and second hand tools is not that common in Sweden. Its not even easy to get hold of them on auctions and such because tool trading companies attend these and drives up the prices.
Would even say that "garage sales" is not something that ever occur.. i have seen flea markets in the south parts of Sweden, but its really a odd curiosity here. =)

You will have to start some car boot sales and flea markets up in Sweden Neo, I always look carefully at files I find at car boots and the like, you can find some real crackers (and lots that are only useful as a source of high carbon tool steel!) Do you have any big, old fashioned hardware or tool stores? see if they have any old stock. A lot of my good files are marked "Oberg Sweden" and they are really good, I have put together a really useful set of needle files and rifler files from car boots and flea markets. I have just come back from the Green Man festival in Wales, and on the Wednesday I always pay a visit to the flea market in Abergavenny market hall, where there is a really good tool and engineering stall. Keep looking!
Good luck,
Phil
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Offline NeoTech

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Re: How do i; find a good set of shop files.
« Reply #23 on: September 12, 2015, 01:35:32 PM »
Well, the last good hardware chain closed down 15 so years ago, the big bucks chain that exist till this days date sell same shiet u find on fleabay. And the hardware stores that are targted to buisnesses are not that keen on getting "ordinary" people in thru their doors.
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Offline Arbalist

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