Engraving/marking tools

[raynerd]

Evening guys,
How do you guys engrave steel tools? I've a number of hand tools, many old tools purchased second hand and a lot of lovely names engraved on them or more importantly, things like cutters and such have dimension markings on them. How do you guys clearly mark your steel tools with a strong etch. I obviously know and have stamped things in the past but that just isn't always possible.
I've attached a picture as an example.

Chris

[jcs0001]

I've used a electric vibratory engraving tool in the past but the results are not pretty.  My writing is bad and it's a heck of a lot worse holding one of those things.

It would be nice to figure out a way to fairly easily engrave things and have it look nice.

John.

[DMIOM]

Chris,

I think that, as John mentioned, those were probably marked with a vibrating engraver. The extra deep 'dot' at the start/end of some of the strokes are symptomatic of these tools, where there has been a pause after 'landing' at the start of a stroke or a delay before lifting at the end of a stroke..

I have one of the Burgess hand-held models, they're still available (£40-£50 new, £10-£20 second hand) and you can get a wide range of points, typically carbide for engraving steel. The thing I like about the Burgess one is that you can vary the strength of the reciprocating stroke, although even on the softest setting I've never had the nerve (or to be honest the need) to try engraving glass with mine. The bigger kits also come with ball points so you can emboss leather/copper/pewter etc. and blades for cutting/carving.

You can write freehand with them but I tend to write with a Sharpie & then follow those lines with the engraver.

You mentioned engraving sizes on tools - the only thing to beware is that the reciprocating point does raise a tiny burr around the sides and if you needed it to retain a flat face you might have to stone it afterwards.

Dave

[Fergus OMore]

Frankly, Chris, you are trying to do something that takes long practice and commitment to do with correct graving tools. If you set off with the same shaky hands with something mechanical you still have the same shaky hands and get the same shaky result.

I admit that I can't do anything better but I have a Staking Tool made to George Thomas's design called a Universal Pillar Tool that taps and rivets and drills and- well, a lot of things.

The only other way is to invest in an engraving machine- that most of us used to convert to crude milling machines.

Perhaps you could 'Reverse Engineer'?

Norman

[raynerd]

Thanks John, Dave - I've got quite a lot of stuff with similar hand written engraving so you have confirmed to me that it is a vibrating engraver. I will have a look at Burgess and see what I can find.

Frankly, Chris, you are trying to do something that takes long practice and commitment to do with correct graving tools. If you set off with the same shaky hands with something mechanical you still have the same shaky hands and get the same shaky result.

I admit that I can't do anything better but I have a Staking Tool made to George Thomas's design called a Universal Pillar Tool that taps and rivets and drills and- well, a lot of things.

The only other way is to invest in an engraving machine- that most of us used to convert to crude milling machines.

Perhaps you could 'Reverse Engineer'?

Norman

Norman - not sure I'm really following you.  This is a hobby so every single thing we do takes long practice and commitment. You admit that you can't do any better ?? Better than what - the image I posted is of something that I considered good! Call me sentimental but I think a bit of personality in these old name engravings tell me something about the tools and their pervious users. I'm not looking to engrave tropies - if I could write something like I posted in the pictures I'd be very happy! Maybe I took your message out of context.

Just remembered why I don't post like I use to. Back into hibernation. Thanks for the info. So long for now!

[chipenter]

I have used a acid eching pen in the past just don't hold the part you are etching , or there is now a spark engraving tool a small EDM with a wet tip instead of an imersion tank .

[awemawson]

I have a spark etching marker that works ok but as as has been said you need a good hand.

I seem to recall that you have a small CNC Mill, and also you made a spring loaded engraving head so why don't you use those

[philf]

Hi Chris,

The engraving looks very much like it was done with an Actograp engraver. This uses a tungsten stylus and makes the mark by 'sparking'. The work to be engraved has to be conductive. When the stylus touches the work a circuit is made. This energises a coil in the handset which attracts the armature which holds the stylus pulling it away from the work breaking the circuit and making the spark (or arc). The stylus then returns and the circuit is made again. It's fairly easy to write neatly with one.



I much prefer mine to my Burgess engraver for marking tools. The Burgess wins on non-conductive materials.

Phil.

[awemawson]

Hi Chris,

The engraving looks very much like it was done with an Actograp engraver. This uses a tungsten stylus and makes the mark by 'sparking'. The work to be engraved has to be conductive. When the stylus touches the work a circuit is made. This energises a coil in the handset which attracts the armature which holds the stylus pulling it away from the work breaking the circuit and making the spark (or arc). The stylus then returns and the circuit is made again. It's fairly easy to write neatly with one.



I much prefer mine to my Burgess engraver for marking tools. The Burgess wins on non-conductive materials.

Phil.

That's the one I have. I use bits of tig tungsten's as replacement tips

It's only really a buzzer - the holder is attracted to an electro-magnet, breaking the contact and arcing, it then relaxes and the cycle starts again. Mine has the original transformer with voltage tappings for varying the depth

[raynerd]

Hi Andrew, the small CNC was sold a year ago when I moved house to pay estate agent fees!!!! :-(

Phil, hope all is well, is the clock finished yet?  Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do some googling.

[philf]

Hi Andrew, the small CNC was sold a year ago when I moved house to pay estate agent fees!!!! :-(

Phil, hope all is well, is the clock finished yet?  Thanks for the suggestion, I'll do some googling.

Hi Chris,

We had dozens of Actograps at work. I bet they all got binned when we shipped production abroad.

No - I've done no more on the clock.

Instead of time in the workshop I'm getting on with some work in the house at long last. My wife's fed up of bare brick walls and isn't impressed when visitors say "It's got character!" I've been putting it off long enough. I needed to remove the radiator in the hall to knock the last of the old rotten plaster off. Unfortunately, the rad weighs about 4 cwt and was plumbed in with 1 1/2" steel pipe with unions that wouldn't budge. A few weeks ago I set about the steel piping with a hacksaw. Some of it was right up against the floor joists and some against a wall. I could only get about 50mm stroke on the saw at about head height. I had to cut through about 10 pipes to get it all out - it took me about 12 hours! When the rad goes back in it will be plumbed with 15mm copper.

Cheers.

Phil.

[PekkaNF]

I have been thinking of marking out some stuff. Sometimes scales, sometimes just some odd markings and sometimes even some decorative markings. Etching have been used in past. Wax to protect and then some ascids and/or dyes. I did etch PC boards, but it is pretty involved with chemicals and UV lamps.

Can you make/buy vinyl stencils? How about the sand (media) blasting like they decorate glassware and stuff. I have wondering that.

Too steampunk?

Pekka

[awemawson]

Chris I suspect that the school you work at probably has a laser etcher, and although it won't do metal directly, it will using the paint trick 

Spray paint on as a mask, then laser off the bits / text / graphics that you want etching. Dip into suitable etch solution, then remove the paint.

[RobWilson]

Just remembered why I don't post like I use to. Back into hibernation. Thanks for the info. So long for now!

I share that sentiment Chris ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,lots of drivel on forums now a days .



Any way mate I use one of these wee pencil engravers to mark up  tools and the likes .





Made in Sweden about £150 new ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,but findable for allot  less on Ebay . 

Or have a look at this thread  http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,10491.msg120083.html#msg120083   


Rob

[joshagrady]

I assume that the "offer of the week" from LIDL/ALDI varies from country to country, but last week the LIDL here had pencil engravers available for €9.99.  I've only tried this particular model on a beer bottle, but it seemed to get the job done. 

An easy way of etching small areas is to paint the surface with a fairly thick layer of nail polish (I remember some fairly strange looks from my S.O. as she was rooting around in my shop one day, and found a bottle of nail polish), and let it dry well.  Use a scribe (or similar) to remove the nail polish in the area you want etched (e.g. your name).  Take an old phone charger and cut the plug off to separate the leads.  Use an alligator clip on one lead to attach to the tool, and a clip on the other holding a cotton bud soaked with a dielectric fluid. (I've used water with table salt, and water with baking soda, both work fine.) Simply rub and press the cotton bud over the area that you've marked with the scribe.  If it starts fizzing, you've got things hooked up properly.  If not, change the leads.  This method, as you know better than I, will produce a bit of gas that you probably don't want to be breathing, so a properly ventilated work area is a good idea.

[John Hill]

I would love to be clever enough to convert an ink jet printer to print a suitable fluid on to metal objects.

[PekkaNF]

I would love to be clever enough to convert an ink jet printer to print a suitable fluid on to metal objects.

Probably not easy...most inkjet printers don't handle much heavier objects than paper, modifying the feed mechanically is possible I think, but programmable features are a killer.

Is there a transfer paper/mylar for inkjet? I have used laser printer and transparency + ironing method to transfer the inkpowder (glorified plastic composition) onto printed circuit board and labels. Works fine for etching, but as itself is not mechanically very durable.

Maybe something like this on inkjet?
http://www.officedepot.com/a/products/521433/Avery-Dark-T-Shirt-Transfers-For/


Pekka

[awemawson]

There are commercial ink jet heads that project the ink a few mm onto items on a production line, and they do sometimes pop up on ebay.

[Anzaniste]

Vibro engravers only do one job. I use a Dremel with a cheap diamond ball shaped burr as an engraver. This has the advantage that the tool can be used far a multitude of other jobs. I actually use a cheaper version that I got from Aldi or Lidle for thirty odd quid a bit ago.