Author Topic: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.  (Read 11702 times)

Offline DavidA

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'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« on: January 03, 2016, 02:57:29 PM »
Not really sure where to place this. But if anyone objects I'll move it elsewhere.

As many will know I acquired an old (1982) Denford Viceroy 280 Synchro : 12 speed.

This machine had been in use at the company I worked for at least from the time I arrived there ten years ago and was under the care of an old school machinist who really knew what he was doing. He retired a couple of year back and the person who took over his job really didn't have much of a clue.

So the machine stopped. and then was moved into a storage shed. It sat there unloved until the maintenance chief asked me if I knew anyone who would be interested in buying it.

I offered him a very low price and was most surprised when it was accepted.

It was in a truly sorry state.

It was covered in grot; rusty grot. There were still tools in the tray, along with lots of old cutting oil. Fortunately the cutting fluid helped preserve all the tools that were covered in it. It was the bare metal that had rusted. all the ways were fine.

£50 changed hands for carriage and the lathe was delivered to my drive way. My brother and I spent an interesting day getting it from the gate down to the shed. This involved moving two cars that were long term projects and building a roadway out of breeze blocks to get across an unpaved patch.
But we managed. put it roughly in place and called it enough for the day.

It took days to clean it. But the basic machine was clearly in quite good condition.

The first difficulty as that it was three phase. That little adventure has been covered in the posts on three phase conversion.

Now, there does seem to be a lot of controversy when it comes to using capacitors to make a single to three phase convertor. Some seem to heap derision on the whole idea. But it works. You have to put up with the fact you will never get a true three phase supply as the capacitor(s) give you a 90degree third phase and not the 120 degree that one would really like. Small price to pay.

I set up the motor I bought from our esteemed colleague as a pilot and now have a happily running lathe.
When it's cold,  on first starting up, the power to the shed occasionally trips out as the trip is only16 Amp. This will be addressed in the near future. I did find that adding an extra 6 MFD to the pilot motor on start up seems to cure the tripping out.

When it first arrived the lathe was fitted with DC injection braking. This looked to me like trouble just waiting to manifest itself, so I bypassed it and now have the usual forward reverse and stop buttons; Oh yes, and the sud pump when I re-fit its contactor.

There is always a moment of trepidation when you first start up this kind of system after having 'modified' the circuitry. But the moment comes when you have to press the button and hope that there are no dramatics. And there weren't ; nothing happened.

After much musing over the contactor wiring I found that the contactor relays had no return path. I had broken this when I remover the suds pump contactor. So, inset wire into L1 and try again.  Success!

For about five minute.

I found that pressing the start buttons wasn't working anymore.
It turned out to be a sticky 'stop' push button.  A quick squirt with WD 40 and we were back in business.

So, it lives.  then the series two problems started. More on that later.

A quick question to anyone who has a similar machine.
On the top there is an oil fill plug. But no apparent level glass. Anyone know how you check the oil on the headstock ?
The gearbox has both filler plug and sight glass.

Dave.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #1 on: January 03, 2016, 03:09:56 PM »
Interesting story....great to hear a bit about how other folk acquired their machinery and the toil and trouble caused when installing them....sadly I have nothing to offer, everything I have was bought new and installed relatively easy, except for the Ajax mill I bought from ebay, but thats another story....

An esteemed colleague....? Moi?.... :lol:
eccentric millionaire financed by 'er indoors
Location:  near Hull

Skype: chippiejnr

Offline chipenter

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #2 on: January 03, 2016, 03:31:18 PM »
I don't think its a fill plug on the headstock http://www.lathes.co.uk/viceroy/page3.html stands a good chance to be holdeing the cover down .
Jeff

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #3 on: January 03, 2016, 03:40:02 PM »
Nice to hear the story BUT

 :worthless: :worthless: :worthless: :worthless: :worthless:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #4 on: January 03, 2016, 03:46:06 PM »
Andrew,

Pictures will follow; trust me.

Jeff,

Thanks for the link with it's most excellent picture; wish mine was as clean.

But that black object on the top really is a plastic oil filler plug. it even  has 'oil' printed on it.

The top is held down with four capscrews in the corners.

The other plug I refer to is the one on the gearbox facing down the bed, along with it's related sight glass below it.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #5 on: January 03, 2016, 06:01:47 PM »
If it's anything like mine you fill it up and it leaks down to the proper level :D

Really though it only needs enough to splash-feed the gears. The headstock bearings are lubed via the grease nipple behind the chuck.

Offline AdeV

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #6 on: January 03, 2016, 08:00:03 PM »

But that black object on the top really is a plastic oil filler plug. it even  has 'oil' printed on it.


Are you sure it's not an upside down 710 cap?

http://msgboard.snopes.com/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=73;t=000115;p=0

 :lol:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2016, 01:02:17 AM »
Hi All,
 Just my thoughts on reading this post and I'm probably way off. Is it possible that the oil filler plug originally had a dip-stick attached?  As it seems to be toward the front edge it could possibly pass down clear of the spinning bits.
      Doesn't help with knowing the correct level unless it is lurking down among the sludge at the bottom.
  The linked page shows a really nice machine. Jolly good buy on your part David.

John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2016, 06:33:46 AM »
Ade,
That reminds me of the time when the answer to the world's energy problems was 71077345.

(works better on a pocket calculator).

Pete,

I squirted some oil down the hole just as a precaution before running it. Better a splash of oil than no oil at all.  I'm thinking of using black molly CV joint  grease for the bearing. If it can take the loading incurred with car CV joints then it should be ok.

John,

You may be right. But I have just been looking at the manual again and it says, and I quote...

...check the oilsite levels in the headstock, gearbox and the apron and fill to correct levels...

And the accompanying drawing shows pointers to the filler plugs on all three of these places; including both top of headstock and the front of the gearbox.

I'll give Denford a ring later today and see if they can help.

I do need to remove the gearbox top to take up a bit of slack in the spindle bearing assembly. That will provide an opportunity to assess the situation.

Dave.

Offline DMIOM

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #9 on: January 04, 2016, 06:41:01 AM »
Dave,

have you tried asking on the Denford bulletin board?    http://www.denfordata.com/bb/

Dave M

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #10 on: January 04, 2016, 07:13:36 AM »
Dave,

Funny you should mention that.

I've just joined the Denford forum. And immediately found the (somewhat ambiguous) answer to my problem.

Thanks for mentioning it.

Dave.


Online PekkaNF

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #11 on: January 04, 2016, 07:52:22 AM »
Sometimes there is an "oil" cap even when it not used for oil:
* Once I noticed that it was used as an breather, apparently cheaper than small breather.....
* Once it was used as a plug.....same casting for oil and grease lubrication, therefore same parts....

Both cases it was for the ease of procurement and no regard to end user.

Now when I think of it - I have a cap clearly marked as "Oil" on the grinder oven when spindle is grease lubricated....

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #12 on: January 04, 2016, 08:19:19 AM »
Well there's always the case where an accidental hole has been drilled in a machine table, and the perpetrator stamps 'OIL' next to it to cover his tracks  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #13 on: January 04, 2016, 12:24:44 PM »
Sometimes there is an "oil" cap even when it not used for oil:
* Once I noticed that it was used as an breather, apparently cheaper than small breather.....
* Once it was used as a plug.....same casting for oil and grease lubrication, therefore same parts....

Both cases it was for the ease of procurement and no regard to end user.

Now when I think of it - I have a cap clearly marked as "Oil" on the grinder oven when spindle is grease lubricated....

Pekka

Actually Pekka, you're quite right the oil filler cap on the Synchro has a little hole in it and does double as a breather.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2016, 03:31:11 PM »
Had one of those annoying experiences today. The kind that only seem to lead from one problem to another.

Here's what happened.

Before Christmas, when I was still working part time, I embarked on making a couple of drive shafts for my nephew's experimental electric car.  They were nothing special, just 1" BMS bars about 18 inch long.

The original intent was to make them at work where the equipment was on hand.  So  I reached the point where I needed an M16 * 2M pitch thread on one end of each bar.  no problem, Piece of cake on a Colchester 2000. This left me with the other ends. The drawing he had given me didn't specify a thread, only that it had to be 20 MM long and less than the diameter of the 1" bar. And yes, am aware that it couldn't have been larger than the bar diameter; before anyone points it out.

I settled on 22MM * 2m pitch. and again, no problem. This left only a couple of internally threaded couplings to be made to fit.

Then we got busy and I didn't have time to finish the job before I retired; for the fifth time. It would have to be done at home. and the only suitable machine was the Denford. Problem was, this machine wasn't running at the time.
Much of Christmas was spent getting the machine going.

Three days ago I settled down to make the couplings. I had noticed that the gears and the banjo for metric threading were in one of the cabinet drawers. So just a matter if swapping the Imperial set over.

I removed the Imperial banjo and it's gears.

Then discovered that although the gears and banjo were there. there was no trunnions on the banjo for the gears to run on.  Much time was spent making up replacements. They fit perfectly. and the assembly was placed in position. Only to find that the banjo securing bolt that came with the imperial set is too short to hold the Metric set.  And it is 3/8" BSW to screw into the gearbox. And I don't have a longer setscrew. Or a 3/8" BSW die.

Gloom and despondency descends upon the shed.

'Stuff this Metric' says I.  'Enough already'.

I could cut the thread on the lathe, but this means putting the Imperial set back on. And if I am going to do that I may as well go the whole hog and re thread the bar Imperial.

So, I turned off the Metric thread, machined up a couple of tubular 1" O/D pieces to fit and welded then in place. Turned of the excess weld and am now back to where I was a week ago.

Tomorrow they get turned down to 15/16" and 11 TPI BSF.

Should have done that in the first place.

You can guess which way I am (probably) going to vote in the upcoming European referendum.

Dave.






Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #15 on: January 21, 2016, 02:35:03 PM »
Woe, woe and thrice woe.

Just as I am getting the hang of this machine I noticed that the lead screw has around half a mm endfloat.

So now I will have to get into the gear box to take it up.

Oh yes, and while I was looking at the ancillary tools that came with it I fount that the face plate doesn't have any cam - loc pins (or retaining screws) in it.

Spoiled my whole day; that one.

Dave.

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #16 on: January 21, 2016, 03:21:29 PM »
.... and the pictures ...... :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:


 :worthless:


Now if it's a drive shaft does one end not need to be left hand threaded ?
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DMIOM

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #17 on: January 21, 2016, 03:40:18 PM »
......Oh yes, and while I was looking at the ancillary tools that came with it I fount that the face plate doesn't have any cam - loc pins (or retaining screws) in it. ......

Dave,

Just in case you don't know, be careful when getting new pins - whilst the visible part is standardised, the threaded portion isn't - so the pins may have metric or imperial threads; and on another forum, I seem to recall John Stevenson saying at one time he had five different pin fittings!

Dave (IOM)

Offline Jonny

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #18 on: January 21, 2016, 05:35:02 PM »
[quote
Now if it's a drive shaft does one end not need to be left hand threaded ?
[/quote]

Kick a man when he is down  :lol:

Lead screw play wont affect accuracy going in one direction only, some are free to move.

Commiserations on having to faff about with change wheels.

Quite dear them cam lock studs, have bought Chinese D1-4 complete backing plates for less than the studs alone, worth considering.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #19 on: January 21, 2016, 07:09:15 PM »
Andrew,

Pictures are coming......eventually.

The drive shaft was machined to the customers (my nephew) design.  There were a number of things that were wrong with it, and I pointed them all out to him. But he said it would be ok. So be it.

Jonny,

Yes, the lead screw will work as it is. But I don't like the idea of the shaft moving around like that. Needs fixing.

However, it will have to cut a few more threads as it is.

The only change wheels I have to contend with is the set that changes Imperial to Metric. And on the 280 Synchro you simply change the complete banjo unit. Quite easy once the thing is set up.  The gearbox then takes care of all the available pitches.

There are 72 Metric threads and 48 Imperial threads available. Who could ask for more ?

Dave,

Thanks for reminding me about the studs.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #20 on: January 22, 2016, 01:58:37 AM »
On the metric Synchro there should be a stack of five gears on a bolt under the end cover. Six gears in total (five on the bolt and one on the banjo) stamped A-G and you choose the right gear according to the threading chart.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #21 on: January 23, 2016, 11:01:36 AM »
Pete.

My Synchro is Imperial.

I did have one of those 'so that's how it works' moments today while looking at the gear train.

As I mentioned, the machine has 48 Imperial pitch choices.   From 4 tpi to 28 tpi and then another range to cover the rest.
I just worked out how it does this.  On the banjo there is a sliding gear. it normally gives a straight through 1:1 drive to the gearbox.
If you slide this 'quad gear' out into it's other position it changes the the ratio to 8:1 . So all the lower tpi are multiplied by 8 to give 32 tpi to 224 tpi. Neat!

I just wish it had a clutch reversing system. Save all the stop - start on the motor. But I suppose you can't have everything on one machine.

Dave.

Typo edit
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 08:53:19 AM by DavidA »

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #22 on: January 23, 2016, 01:23:56 PM »
I knew it was imperial I just didn't realise the imperial machine does without the swappable gears. It would be great to get some photos of the drivetrain and screwcutting chart I can't find a single example despite extensive searching.

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #23 on: January 23, 2016, 01:45:42 PM »
.... ah photos .... now there's a good idea .... Dave  :scratch: :scratch: :scratch: :scratch:

 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #24 on: January 23, 2016, 02:14:30 PM »
Even as you read this I am trying to get my camera (Fuji Finepix S3000) running so that I can use it'sMacro facility to get some pictures.

This camera has something of an unreliability  history, and I don't altogether trust it.

I do have a variety of other cameras, but non that will let me get really close.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2016, 09:22:11 AM »
A few quick pictures. Taken with a hand held camera, so not good quality. Things will improve when I get the tripod adapter sorted out.

I'll save the descriptions for the next (better) pics.

But basically,  the gear train as it is in normal (low range) usage.

 then the machine. Sans guards. The big lumpy thing in the middle is the EMCO milling head.

And a rather reflective view of the Imperial screw cutting chart.

Let's see if they appear.

Dave.


Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2016, 10:16:34 AM »
Nothing shabby about those pictures Dave  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2016, 12:28:30 PM »
As this thread covers whatever is going on in the shed I thought I would mention my way of setting up a four jaw chuck.

I watched John Mills method in one of his posts, and it works pretty well. I do notice that he doesn't always follow this procedure, and the boring of the pulley for the drill shows the way most people tend to do it. Again, it works. But it can take a lot of moves to get right.

Here is what I do.

First, set the clock guage on the far side of the job, at centre height (this is important).

Move one of the jaws (say Number one) to a position at the operator side and horizontal.

Set the guage to zero.

Rotate chuck half a turn. Note reading. Use keys to take out half the reading.

Rotate chuck another half turn, Number one will now be back on your side. reset zero.

Rotate half a turn and you should be pretty close to zero in that plane.

Rotate chuck 90 degree (quarter turn) and repeat the procedure as for the first pair of jaws.

The thinking behind this is that there really is only movement in two axis. horizontal and vertical.

If your job is off centre (and you ignore the jaws for a moment) all you need do is move the job across and up/down to find the centre.

So you only need to move the job in two directions. By setting the jaws horizontal you achieve this with the minimum moves as opposed to what happens when the job high point comes high at some odd angle and the jaws are not horizontal/vertical.

Like most things, this takes much less time to actually do than it does to describe.

Try it.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2016, 12:36:09 PM »
I'm about to strip my headstock down as it's started making some godawful noise and the hi-low lever is visibly knocking. I'm hoping it's something simple like a loose hub screw.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2016, 02:36:34 PM »
Pete,

Does it do it when the hi-lo lever is in neutral ?

And what kind of condition is the variable speed belt in ?

Dave.

p.s.  Re the oil level.

According to the Denford site, the 280 Synchro headstock holds one Pint of oil.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2016, 05:01:12 PM »
Belt is fine, and no the lever doesn't knock in neutral.
I'm pretty sure it'll be a plastic gear loose on it's steel hub.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2016, 03:37:38 PM »
Just discovered a fatal flaw in my Synchro purchase

It is missing a 48 tooth stud gear for the Metric set up.

Before I go to the Denford site, does anyone here have such a gear they are willing to sell ?

I need to cut some 2mm pitch threads. But can't do so without this gear.

As mentioned above, it is an Imperial machine. And the Metric conversion needs half a dozen different stud gears to cover most of the range. I have five.

The Synchro is different to many lathes in that to change to Metric you change the banjo. which has two wheel permanently fitted.   And the Imperial/Metric pair that is usually 127/100 is 127/120.
A 48 tooth gear drives the 127 part of the conversion gear from the stud gear, and is permanently fixed to the banjo.

So, to get the whole range of Metric pitches you only change the stud gear.

Dave.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 01:08:36 PM »
Any Idea what the DP is? I reckon it's about 24.

I just checked the tooth count of the stock one on my metric machine and it's a 42 tooth gear.


Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 05:09:04 PM »
Jonny,

I'd have to see one to make a decision on that. Price looks good though.

Pete,

Yes,

It's 2.77" diameter and 48 teeth which gives a DP of 18.

DP=outside diameter/number of teeth + 2

So I can expand my search to anyone having a DP 18 x 48 tooth gear.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 05:17:12 PM »
While I'm here I have a query.

The EMCO milling head fitted has a Dormer (small) FASTLOC  No 2 Morse M10 cutter holder.

Does anyone else use this cutter holder, and where can I get collets for it.

It has a secondary problem in that it doesn't want to come out of the quill.
I'm hoping that I can make up some kind of screw jack that I can use to apply screw pressure on to the end of the collet chuck via the draw bar.

An alternative may be to make up a pair of wedges and use them between the bottom of the quill and the body of the holder. I don't want to be bashing things with a hammer.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2016, 05:30:57 PM »
I may have partially answered my own question.

I found this on another site. I this a response to someone else who was essentially asking the same question.

...I have a fastloc chuck and a clarkson, the colletts are interchangeable...

Can anyone confirm this ?

Dave.

Offline RobWilson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2016, 02:28:41 AM »
Morning David


If I have the correct DP  cutter I could make you a gear .  I will look when I get home later

Rob

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2016, 06:59:43 AM »
Morning Rob,

That would be very helpful.

Drop me a pm and let me know.

Thanks,

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2016, 08:40:23 AM »
The 'Simplatrol' variable speed control.

Does anyone know if there is a thrust bearing anywhere in this thing ?

I was thinking maybe as part of the sliding arrangement that varies the gap between the Vee flanges.

I'm getting a lot of 'sqeeky' noise and can't decide if it is the belt or a dry bearing.

Definitely from the Simplatrol area.

Dave


Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 09:20:05 AM »
Yes there is a thrust bearing . The top lever pulls another arm which presses in the top sliding pulley to adjust the pulley width. There's a shiny dome cover on it and inside that is the thrust bearing.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 06:47:21 PM »
Pete,

Thanks, I have a look at that and see what is in there.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2016, 03:18:47 PM »
Is this another 'sign of the times' ?

In preparation for the upcoming MOT on my Citroen I went to our local Citroen agent (Citroen , Crosshills) to get a replacement part. It is a kind of bush holder that secures one end of the front anti-roll bar to the bottom steering arm.

Only to find that they have changed their parts policy.

They now only fit parts. they don't supply them to the public.

So, I could have got them to order in the part and paid them to fit it, at about £50 per hour, maybe more, but they wouldn't order the part for me to fit myself.

However, I was told, their Harrogate branch will supply the part.

But I have to get it from Harrogate. Which is about 25 mile from where I live.

As both branches will probably get the part from the same Citroen holding store, why can't they sent it to Crosshills which is only five mile from me ?

Fortunately the part is only a simple aluminium block with a few holes in it. So I will make my own.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2016, 03:52:55 PM »
Just a bit of an update.

As I mentioned on Bob's home brew milling machine thread, I have the same EMCO head and also the same X,Y table. But I wanted to use the EMCO on my Denford in the way that it was intended. Just to see how it compares with a proper milling machine.

SO, it is up and running with my three inch machine vice bolted down to the cross slide.

I have mentioned the problem with the backlash. And following Seadog's lead (no pun intended) I tried using it tonight with the gib tightened right up.

It seems to work. At least on Aluminium. I use a Dural type ally for experimental stuff as I have a fair stock of bits and it doesn't knock hell out of my milling cutters.

But I find a second problem.

Imagine that you have a small block of material. maybe two inches square by 1/2 an inch thick.  The two faces are parallel to each other, but non of the edges are square to each other.

So, clamp it in the vice with your best edge more or less horizontal and take a skimming cut. Just enough to clean it up.

Now comes the problem.

Next thing I would do is turn the block through 90 degrees and using the newly milled edge, set this at 90 degrees to the bed.

But on the lathe/miller you can't do that. There is nowhere to sit your square. At least nothing true like a milling table will provide.  Agreed, you could make up some kind of false bed to sit the square on, but getting it true would be awkward.

I suppose all this hassle comes from trying to use a machine for a purpose it wasn't really intended .

You can do it. But it is really difficult.

Time to go back to my Micro Mill.

Does anyone here use the EMCO attachment for milling ?

Dave.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2016, 02:27:43 PM »
A quick update. and a short tale of woe that may help some one else avoid the same problem.

I decided to make a dummy spindle nose to be used when making things like backplates for my old red lathe.

So I took the measurements, chucked up a piece of leaded steel in the Denford lathe and proceeded to make something as near exact as I cold get it.

Got the register spot on. ground up a tool to cut the 8 tpi thread that the chuck, faceplate etc screw onto, 55 degrees.  cut a short parallel diameter at the end to indicate the depth of cut. And away I went.

I have no thread counter on this machine, so it was a case of forward/ reverse. no disengaging the lead screw.

Got down to the indicating diameter. tried the red lathe's faceplate. Wont fit.   Cut a bit deeper. Still won't fit.

measure everything in sight. Everything looks ok. Why won't it screw on ?

After a couple of hours, when the stove had gone out and it was starting to get cold in the shed, I decided to call it a do for the day/ But I first took the cutting tool from the Denford and tried it in the red lathe nose thread. And the problem was revealed (well, at least I think it will be). My tool has a sharp point. the bottom of the lathe's thread has a rounded form. And the calculations didn't allow for this.

So, when the point of the tool is down to depth, it really needs to go a bit more or the thread will be (is) too tight.

All I need do is stone a nice radius on the tool tip and then fiddle about re-engaging the tool with the thread, and the job should be a good one.

Moral; don't forget the tip radius when machining things like spindle threads.

Dave.

Offline ieezitin

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2016, 07:25:06 PM »
Good advice Dave.. add the helix angle too.. always overlooked... hard to do by hand tho..

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2016, 06:39:08 AM »
Anthony,

Yes, helix angle is something one tends to ignore with ordinary threads. But it could become relevant with low number pitches.

Interestingly, Sparey, in his 'The Amateur's Lathe' book, suggests the theoretically correct radius can be ignored.  This isn't strictly true as the radius at the tip will dictate the overall width of the thread cut at the top of the groove. And, as I have found out, insufficient radius makes for a thread groove that is too narrow and hence too tight.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2016, 01:42:06 PM »
Why is nothing straight forward ?

Went into the heated outhouse today, first time for a week or so, with the intent of getting back into the mood for doing something useful. Enthusiasm has been in short supply recently.

Anyway, this involved the red lathe and clamping down something to it's rather nice and chunky slotted table.

There are four slots in this table, and I made up some 'T' slot nuts a while back but didn't need to use them; until now.

The nuts live in the slot nearest to the operator so I know where to find them.

I came to clamp the job using the second slot and found the nuts wouldn't fit.  Odd, they fit ok in the first slot.

Further investigation revealed that they fit in slots one and three, but not in two and four.

Much measuring ensued. All four  slot bottoms are the same width, and all four slot tops are the same. The heights are the same. so what is going on.

A coffee later it dawned on me. And more measuring confirmed it.

With the second and fourth slots, the centre line of the top part is out of line with the centre line of the bottom part. They are about half a millimeter offset.  Enough to stop the nuts sliding in.

The quick and dirty fix is to mill a small amount of one side of a pair of nuts (top part) so they fit and reserve these two for the 'odd' slots.

The proper fix is to remove the table and mill the offending slots to match the good ones: that can wait.

Life is never easy.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2016, 02:18:10 PM »
Ease the slots (or the nuts) with a file.

Tee slots and nuts don't really need to have such close tolerances as they aren't locating anything. A looser fit might be more preferable.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2017, 05:48:40 PM »
The thing we all dread.

As the weather has been cold I haven't been spending any time in my shed/workshop. But today I had to go in and get some rat poison. (Yes, they are still about) and when I unlocked the door the first thing I noticed was one of the lights was on. Now, I do this occasionally and thought 'there goes a few more pence'. Then I noticed a pile of apples on the floor by a bench. 'Oh no, not again'.

Last time I saw the apples they were at one end of the shed in a plastic bag.

A quick look confirmed that someone had indeed forced open a panel in the wall and managed to get in.

So, what is missing ? This has happened to me a few times. So I was prepared for the worst.
First thing I noticed was that a small three drawer tool cabinet was missing. No great loss as it was given to me and the only things in it were the a few tools that came with it.

I have hundreds of pounds worth of tools. A search found most of my power tools to be there. in fact I couldn't find anything else missing at first.

There are shelves on the wall at one end and I noticed that the contents of the shelves had been moved about. Most piled up on the bench in front. I then noticed a large gap on the top shelf. The case for my Ryobi cordless circular saw was missing.
I had bought this about six years ago, maybe more, and it was a combination set of a saw and drill. I never used the saw. Further scanning and I saw the drill from the set, along with the battery charger and both batteries had gone.

So the thief had taken the time to collect all the bits. No, it's not on Ebay; I looked.

What was odd was the only other things I can see that are missing is a lot of brass pipe fittings. I was going to melt them down to make small castings. The total value is probably less than a fiver.

Why take these bits of scrap and leave behind hundreds of pounds worth of power tools ? Very strange.

Oh yes, whilst looking around outside the shed I found a plastic case containing a set of kitchen knifes that had been left by one of my cars.

Anyway, I contacted the police and after waiting twenty minutes got though and was given a crime number. That's it. No visit or anything. Such are the times we live in.

I have spent the last four hour securing the place. lots of long screws and a few bolts. Also piled a load of timber against the offending area.

No doubt I will find that some other bits and pieces have also gone. But I won't know which until I need them and can't find them.

So now I'm knackered.

I'm just so glad I didn't lose all my tools. I have lost everything in past break ins, and for it to happen again at this stage of my life would have been devastating.

And why were the apples on the floor ? The thief probably needed a bag to carry away his swag and the apple bag was the only thing to hand.

I can be happy that it wasn't a machinist who did it.  None of the machinist items were touched.

So, if anyone offers you a old style Ryobi combination saw/drill set and mentions the saw hasn't been used; drop me a line.

Dave

Offline tom osselton

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #50 on: February 24, 2017, 06:11:41 PM »
Sorry to hear that but  it sounds like you got of easy I have been hit probably 15 years ago and now have the garage monitored  24 /7 this year there will be video cams watching the alley and house.  You could pick up a motion detector alarm to scare the b*sstards away its a cheep fix.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2017, 06:19:21 PM »
Tom,

That's next on my to-do list.

Dave.

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2017, 06:20:28 PM »
Dave I feel your pain

It would appear that we now live in a world with many scrotes willing to ruin others lives for a very marginal gain for them selves. I'm lead to believe that much of the crime these days is to pay for drugs and that 40% of the inmates of our prisons are there for drug related issues.

I do hope that you can make your workshop fully secure and replace your losses. When I converted my barn to a workshop I deliberately omitted the various windows that were on the previous owners plans to avoid prying eyes and reduce the entry possibilities, and built the lower walls in concrete blocks.

It's a sad world that we live in  :(
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline tom osselton

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2017, 06:29:03 PM »
There is also quite a few out of work here that are ending their unemployment insurance! The Goverment's answer was to introduce a carbon tax on everything! :doh:

Offline krv3000

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #54 on: February 24, 2017, 07:18:40 PM »
hi not nice had the same dun to me but the  thief fell while trying to get out of me workshop and split his hed open and broke his arm  all the plod was concerned off  is why I had so much tooling and contacted the powers that be as they was concern they my get cancer of me fibber board roof
it was watt they brort out when the asbestos crap happened

Offline tom osselton

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #55 on: February 25, 2017, 02:04:33 AM »
Lol " the  thief fell while trying to get out of me workshop and split his hed open and broke his arm"
SWING BATTER BATTER!   I wish it was that easy!
I hear you though going through the garage is like learning to dance! If you don't know where your feet are your done!

Offline mechman48

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #56 on: February 25, 2017, 10:13:14 AM »
Know what you went through; my garage got turfed over back in 2014, managed to disturb the scrotes before too much was 'relocated' the low life had most of my tooling & power tool laid out between the car & fencing (dark side) ready for pals to come back & collect. The compressor plus airline, power sander, Bosch battery drill had already gone, what pissed me off was the first model I made, a vertical oscillator, went as well with the first batch. Fortunately at that time the plods came out took details, & gave me a crime #, the SOCO came out the next day & dusted the garage but what prints were there were smudged... gloves the SOCO says. Needless to say the garage is now alarmed & extra bolts fitted to main / entry doors, outside lighting both front & back, so far so good....  :clap: I'm sure if I'd got out earlier the low life may well have been scared enough to trip over the block paving & the fence could well have jumped out & hit him...  :hammer: ... :palm:   

George
George.


Always look on the bright side of life, & remember.. KISS..' Keep It Simple Stupid'

Offline Biggles

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #57 on: February 25, 2017, 11:55:09 AM »
My sympathies Dave, the cops didnít come for two days when some b. forced the front downstairs window and got in when I was sleeping upstairs. They told me not to touch the window and someone will come round to look. As a law abiding citizen I did what they said and had to push it shut with a stick, leave a non-locking broken window for the two days until they came and dusted. Tis the sign of the times we live in Iím afraid.  :bang:

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #58 on: February 25, 2017, 01:39:17 PM »
Also found today that two chainsaws have been taken. My brand new electric one and an older McCullough petrol saw.
I contacted the law to add these items. And reminded them at the same time they were going to email me the crime number.  Turns out they had the wrong email address.

But I had no expectancy of anything being done.

The police are massively under staffed. So I can't totally blame them. However it has reached a stage where things have to be pretty serious to draw any attention.

Dave.

Offline DaveS

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #59 on: February 25, 2017, 02:04:12 PM »
Dave         Sorry to hear about your visit from the low life

I had one attempt at my last house but they ran off when a factory volume Klaxxon went off as they tried to pry open the shed door.I had it wired through a micro switch screwed to the door.
For the last 4 years I've had a wireless alarm which suits my needs.
It's called XL wireless shed alarm from Ultrasecuredirect .com based in Northampton.
Looking at my invoice I paid just under £59 ex VAT now it's similar price with VAT

Dave

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #60 on: February 25, 2017, 04:13:31 PM »
I think the first thing to do is place an outer door in front of my main shed door (there is only one) and alarm this.
A false door handle with a switch to trigger a loud and uncomfortable siren.  I imagine the first thing a thief would do is to try the handle,'just in case'.
Hopefully they won't get as far as the locks on the actual door.

Did I mention this is the eighth or ninth time this has happened; twice to our houses and the rest to the sheds.

You never get used to it.

Thanks for the support guys, much appreciated.

Dave.

Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #61 on: February 25, 2017, 04:36:18 PM »
When I owned some Launderette I fitted some cheap hasps and padlocks over the actual 'proper' lock on the drier coin boxes knowing that any scrote breaking in would simply snap the padlock off. What they didn't know was that there was a micro-switch under the hasp that was wired to a loud alarm  :lol:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline tom osselton

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #62 on: February 25, 2017, 06:48:06 PM »
When I owned some Launderette I fitted some cheap hasps and padlocks over the actual 'proper' lock on the drier coin boxes knowing that any scrote breaking in would simply snap the padlock off. What they didn't know was that there was a micro-switch under the hasp that was wired to a loud alarm  :lol:
That's a good idea I never thought of that!
Using a arduino you could add a time delay to the alarm for you to enter if its homemade or a motion detected verbal warning on you shed.
One of the pains with mine is one keypad in the house while your outside "I think it's off"!

Offline Biggles

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #63 on: February 27, 2017, 01:01:40 PM »
 :lol: :lol:

Offline chipenter

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #64 on: February 27, 2017, 02:38:26 PM »
Recently theives cut and ripped up over 600 feet of aly track , at Caterbury model engineering club they twisted and bent that they could only take half , what was left compleatly usles and only worth about 20 quid as scrap , it will take weeks of work to replace .
Jeff

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #65 on: February 27, 2017, 03:21:57 PM »
This is the real killer.

Not the financial loss; tho that can be high.

It is the effort that is often wiped out. All for nothing.
And the psychological stress.
There is always that thought at the back of your mind that your privacy has been invaded and it can, probably will happen again.
A few years  my car was stolen by someone who actually crept into the house and stole a coat which had the keys in the pocket, and I was sat less than six foot from the coat in another room.

For years afterward every time I walked out the house I half expected the car to be gone and subconsciously prepared myself for the discovery.

I supposed the correct phrase is traumatized.

But after eight attacks of this kind I suppose it is to be expected.

Dave.

Offline tom osselton

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #66 on: February 27, 2017, 04:25:36 PM »
Where I am there is a back alley and then baseball / socker field. Some neighbours got together and put in some streetlights the cost gets split and put on your electricity bill. I had the garage redone on the outside and had this added to the roof for the video cameras I also have two led lights that come on at dusk that light up a good area.

 The bad part is the summer people going to their games all looking at what you have!
Not to mention that piss poor lock on every garage! :doh:

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #67 on: April 23, 2017, 04:55:34 PM »
When I first reported that my stuff had been stolen I wrote...

..No doubt I will find that some other bits and pieces have also gone. But I won't know which until I need them and can't find them...

and today I went out to get my 1/4" drive socket set. But it wasn't there.  And I decided to carry on with the battery charging experiments I had been reporting here.
But there were no batteries in the shed. All ten of the old batteries had gone. Now I know why they stole the wheel barrow.


But there is a glimmer of light at the end of this dark tunnel.

Tonight a relation who has friends in dark places gave me the name of the thief.

It seems that a 'friend of a friend' has heard this villain bragging about his exploits. And the word has now got back to me.

So tomorrow I will go down to the local police station and pass on this info. Clearly I will not say from whom it came, but it may lead to better things.

Things may be looking up.

Dave.