Author Topic: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.  (Read 11043 times)

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #25 on: January 24, 2016, 09:22:11 AM »
A few quick pictures. Taken with a hand held camera, so not good quality. Things will improve when I get the tripod adapter sorted out.

I'll save the descriptions for the next (better) pics.

But basically,  the gear train as it is in normal (low range) usage.

 then the machine. Sans guards. The big lumpy thing in the middle is the EMCO milling head.

And a rather reflective view of the Imperial screw cutting chart.

Let's see if they appear.

Dave.


Offline awemawson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #26 on: January 24, 2016, 10:16:34 AM »
Nothing shabby about those pictures Dave  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #27 on: January 30, 2016, 12:28:30 PM »
As this thread covers whatever is going on in the shed I thought I would mention my way of setting up a four jaw chuck.

I watched John Mills method in one of his posts, and it works pretty well. I do notice that he doesn't always follow this procedure, and the boring of the pulley for the drill shows the way most people tend to do it. Again, it works. But it can take a lot of moves to get right.

Here is what I do.

First, set the clock guage on the far side of the job, at centre height (this is important).

Move one of the jaws (say Number one) to a position at the operator side and horizontal.

Set the guage to zero.

Rotate chuck half a turn. Note reading. Use keys to take out half the reading.

Rotate chuck another half turn, Number one will now be back on your side. reset zero.

Rotate half a turn and you should be pretty close to zero in that plane.

Rotate chuck 90 degree (quarter turn) and repeat the procedure as for the first pair of jaws.

The thinking behind this is that there really is only movement in two axis. horizontal and vertical.

If your job is off centre (and you ignore the jaws for a moment) all you need do is move the job across and up/down to find the centre.

So you only need to move the job in two directions. By setting the jaws horizontal you achieve this with the minimum moves as opposed to what happens when the job high point comes high at some odd angle and the jaws are not horizontal/vertical.

Like most things, this takes much less time to actually do than it does to describe.

Try it.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #28 on: January 30, 2016, 12:36:09 PM »
I'm about to strip my headstock down as it's started making some godawful noise and the hi-low lever is visibly knocking. I'm hoping it's something simple like a loose hub screw.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #29 on: January 30, 2016, 02:36:34 PM »
Pete,

Does it do it when the hi-lo lever is in neutral ?

And what kind of condition is the variable speed belt in ?

Dave.

p.s.  Re the oil level.

According to the Denford site, the 280 Synchro headstock holds one Pint of oil.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #30 on: January 30, 2016, 05:01:12 PM »
Belt is fine, and no the lever doesn't knock in neutral.
I'm pretty sure it'll be a plastic gear loose on it's steel hub.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #31 on: April 29, 2016, 03:37:38 PM »
Just discovered a fatal flaw in my Synchro purchase

It is missing a 48 tooth stud gear for the Metric set up.

Before I go to the Denford site, does anyone here have such a gear they are willing to sell ?

I need to cut some 2mm pitch threads. But can't do so without this gear.

As mentioned above, it is an Imperial machine. And the Metric conversion needs half a dozen different stud gears to cover most of the range. I have five.

The Synchro is different to many lathes in that to change to Metric you change the banjo. which has two wheel permanently fitted.   And the Imperial/Metric pair that is usually 127/100 is 127/120.
A 48 tooth gear drives the 127 part of the conversion gear from the stud gear, and is permanently fixed to the banjo.

So, to get the whole range of Metric pitches you only change the stud gear.

Dave.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #32 on: April 30, 2016, 01:08:36 PM »
Any Idea what the DP is? I reckon it's about 24.

I just checked the tooth count of the stock one on my metric machine and it's a 42 tooth gear.


Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #34 on: April 30, 2016, 05:09:04 PM »
Jonny,

I'd have to see one to make a decision on that. Price looks good though.

Pete,

Yes,

It's 2.77" diameter and 48 teeth which gives a DP of 18.

DP=outside diameter/number of teeth + 2

So I can expand my search to anyone having a DP 18 x 48 tooth gear.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #35 on: April 30, 2016, 05:17:12 PM »
While I'm here I have a query.

The EMCO milling head fitted has a Dormer (small) FASTLOC  No 2 Morse M10 cutter holder.

Does anyone else use this cutter holder, and where can I get collets for it.

It has a secondary problem in that it doesn't want to come out of the quill.
I'm hoping that I can make up some kind of screw jack that I can use to apply screw pressure on to the end of the collet chuck via the draw bar.

An alternative may be to make up a pair of wedges and use them between the bottom of the quill and the body of the holder. I don't want to be bashing things with a hammer.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #36 on: April 30, 2016, 05:30:57 PM »
I may have partially answered my own question.

I found this on another site. I this a response to someone else who was essentially asking the same question.

...I have a fastloc chuck and a clarkson, the colletts are interchangeable...

Can anyone confirm this ?

Dave.

Offline RobWilson

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #37 on: May 01, 2016, 02:28:41 AM »
Morning David


If I have the correct DP  cutter I could make you a gear .  I will look when I get home later

Rob

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #38 on: May 01, 2016, 06:59:43 AM »
Morning Rob,

That would be very helpful.

Drop me a pm and let me know.

Thanks,

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #39 on: May 18, 2016, 08:40:23 AM »
The 'Simplatrol' variable speed control.

Does anyone know if there is a thrust bearing anywhere in this thing ?

I was thinking maybe as part of the sliding arrangement that varies the gap between the Vee flanges.

I'm getting a lot of 'sqeeky' noise and can't decide if it is the belt or a dry bearing.

Definitely from the Simplatrol area.

Dave


Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #40 on: May 18, 2016, 09:20:05 AM »
Yes there is a thrust bearing . The top lever pulls another arm which presses in the top sliding pulley to adjust the pulley width. There's a shiny dome cover on it and inside that is the thrust bearing.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #41 on: May 18, 2016, 06:47:21 PM »
Pete,

Thanks, I have a look at that and see what is in there.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #42 on: July 21, 2016, 03:18:47 PM »
Is this another 'sign of the times' ?

In preparation for the upcoming MOT on my Citroen I went to our local Citroen agent (Citroen , Crosshills) to get a replacement part. It is a kind of bush holder that secures one end of the front anti-roll bar to the bottom steering arm.

Only to find that they have changed their parts policy.

They now only fit parts. they don't supply them to the public.

So, I could have got them to order in the part and paid them to fit it, at about 50 per hour, maybe more, but they wouldn't order the part for me to fit myself.

However, I was told, their Harrogate branch will supply the part.

But I have to get it from Harrogate. Which is about 25 mile from where I live.

As both branches will probably get the part from the same Citroen holding store, why can't they sent it to Crosshills which is only five mile from me ?

Fortunately the part is only a simple aluminium block with a few holes in it. So I will make my own.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #43 on: September 14, 2016, 03:52:55 PM »
Just a bit of an update.

As I mentioned on Bob's home brew milling machine thread, I have the same EMCO head and also the same X,Y table. But I wanted to use the EMCO on my Denford in the way that it was intended. Just to see how it compares with a proper milling machine.

SO, it is up and running with my three inch machine vice bolted down to the cross slide.

I have mentioned the problem with the backlash. And following Seadog's lead (no pun intended) I tried using it tonight with the gib tightened right up.

It seems to work. At least on Aluminium. I use a Dural type ally for experimental stuff as I have a fair stock of bits and it doesn't knock hell out of my milling cutters.

But I find a second problem.

Imagine that you have a small block of material. maybe two inches square by 1/2 an inch thick.  The two faces are parallel to each other, but non of the edges are square to each other.

So, clamp it in the vice with your best edge more or less horizontal and take a skimming cut. Just enough to clean it up.

Now comes the problem.

Next thing I would do is turn the block through 90 degrees and using the newly milled edge, set this at 90 degrees to the bed.

But on the lathe/miller you can't do that. There is nowhere to sit your square. At least nothing true like a milling table will provide.  Agreed, you could make up some kind of false bed to sit the square on, but getting it true would be awkward.

I suppose all this hassle comes from trying to use a machine for a purpose it wasn't really intended .

You can do it. But it is really difficult.

Time to go back to my Micro Mill.

Does anyone here use the EMCO attachment for milling ?

Dave.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #44 on: November 02, 2016, 02:27:43 PM »
A quick update. and a short tale of woe that may help some one else avoid the same problem.

I decided to make a dummy spindle nose to be used when making things like backplates for my old red lathe.

So I took the measurements, chucked up a piece of leaded steel in the Denford lathe and proceeded to make something as near exact as I cold get it.

Got the register spot on. ground up a tool to cut the 8 tpi thread that the chuck, faceplate etc screw onto, 55 degrees.  cut a short parallel diameter at the end to indicate the depth of cut. And away I went.

I have no thread counter on this machine, so it was a case of forward/ reverse. no disengaging the lead screw.

Got down to the indicating diameter. tried the red lathe's faceplate. Wont fit.   Cut a bit deeper. Still won't fit.

measure everything in sight. Everything looks ok. Why won't it screw on ?

After a couple of hours, when the stove had gone out and it was starting to get cold in the shed, I decided to call it a do for the day/ But I first took the cutting tool from the Denford and tried it in the red lathe nose thread. And the problem was revealed (well, at least I think it will be). My tool has a sharp point. the bottom of the lathe's thread has a rounded form. And the calculations didn't allow for this.

So, when the point of the tool is down to depth, it really needs to go a bit more or the thread will be (is) too tight.

All I need do is stone a nice radius on the tool tip and then fiddle about re-engaging the tool with the thread, and the job should be a good one.

Moral; don't forget the tip radius when machining things like spindle threads.

Dave.

Offline ieezitin

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #45 on: November 02, 2016, 07:25:06 PM »
Good advice Dave.. add the helix angle too.. always overlooked... hard to do by hand tho..

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #46 on: November 03, 2016, 06:39:08 AM »
Anthony,

Yes, helix angle is something one tends to ignore with ordinary threads. But it could become relevant with low number pitches.

Interestingly, Sparey, in his 'The Amateur's Lathe' book, suggests the theoretically correct radius can be ignored.  This isn't strictly true as the radius at the tip will dictate the overall width of the thread cut at the top of the groove. And, as I have found out, insufficient radius makes for a thread groove that is too narrow and hence too tight.

Dave.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #47 on: November 19, 2016, 01:42:06 PM »
Why is nothing straight forward ?

Went into the heated outhouse today, first time for a week or so, with the intent of getting back into the mood for doing something useful. Enthusiasm has been in short supply recently.

Anyway, this involved the red lathe and clamping down something to it's rather nice and chunky slotted table.

There are four slots in this table, and I made up some 'T' slot nuts a while back but didn't need to use them; until now.

The nuts live in the slot nearest to the operator so I know where to find them.

I came to clamp the job using the second slot and found the nuts wouldn't fit.  Odd, they fit ok in the first slot.

Further investigation revealed that they fit in slots one and three, but not in two and four.

Much measuring ensued. All four  slot bottoms are the same width, and all four slot tops are the same. The heights are the same. so what is going on.

A coffee later it dawned on me. And more measuring confirmed it.

With the second and fourth slots, the centre line of the top part is out of line with the centre line of the bottom part. They are about half a millimeter offset.  Enough to stop the nuts sliding in.

The quick and dirty fix is to mill a small amount of one side of a pair of nuts (top part) so they fit and reserve these two for the 'odd' slots.

The proper fix is to remove the table and mill the offending slots to match the good ones: that can wait.

Life is never easy.

Dave.

Offline Pete.

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #48 on: November 19, 2016, 02:18:10 PM »
Ease the slots (or the nuts) with a file.

Tee slots and nuts don't really need to have such close tolerances as they aren't locating anything. A looser fit might be more preferable.

Offline DavidA

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Re: 'Living with an old Synchro' and other tales from my shed.
« Reply #49 on: February 24, 2017, 05:48:40 PM »
The thing we all dread.

As the weather has been cold I haven't been spending any time in my shed/workshop. But today I had to go in and get some rat poison. (Yes, they are still about) and when I unlocked the door the first thing I noticed was one of the lights was on. Now, I do this occasionally and thought 'there goes a few more pence'. Then I noticed a pile of apples on the floor by a bench. 'Oh no, not again'.

Last time I saw the apples they were at one end of the shed in a plastic bag.

A quick look confirmed that someone had indeed forced open a panel in the wall and managed to get in.

So, what is missing ? This has happened to me a few times. So I was prepared for the worst.
First thing I noticed was that a small three drawer tool cabinet was missing. No great loss as it was given to me and the only things in it were the a few tools that came with it.

I have hundreds of pounds worth of tools. A search found most of my power tools to be there. in fact I couldn't find anything else missing at first.

There are shelves on the wall at one end and I noticed that the contents of the shelves had been moved about. Most piled up on the bench in front. I then noticed a large gap on the top shelf. The case for my Ryobi cordless circular saw was missing.
I had bought this about six years ago, maybe more, and it was a combination set of a saw and drill. I never used the saw. Further scanning and I saw the drill from the set, along with the battery charger and both batteries had gone.

So the thief had taken the time to collect all the bits. No, it's not on Ebay; I looked.

What was odd was the only other things I can see that are missing is a lot of brass pipe fittings. I was going to melt them down to make small castings. The total value is probably less than a fiver.

Why take these bits of scrap and leave behind hundreds of pounds worth of power tools ? Very strange.

Oh yes, whilst looking around outside the shed I found a plastic case containing a set of kitchen knifes that had been left by one of my cars.

Anyway, I contacted the police and after waiting twenty minutes got though and was given a crime number. That's it. No visit or anything. Such are the times we live in.

I have spent the last four hour securing the place. lots of long screws and a few bolts. Also piled a load of timber against the offending area.

No doubt I will find that some other bits and pieces have also gone. But I won't know which until I need them and can't find them.

So now I'm knackered.

I'm just so glad I didn't lose all my tools. I have lost everything in past break ins, and for it to happen again at this stage of my life would have been devastating.

And why were the apples on the floor ? The thief probably needed a bag to carry away his swag and the apple bag was the only thing to hand.

I can be happy that it wasn't a machinist who did it.  None of the machinist items were touched.

So, if anyone offers you a old style Ryobi combination saw/drill set and mentions the saw hasn't been used; drop me a line.

Dave