Author Topic: Squaring up stock on the mill.  (Read 5923 times)

Offline Doc

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Squaring up stock on the mill.
« on: April 17, 2016, 04:57:24 PM »
I a made a little vid about squaring up stock on the mill.
It just shows how I was taught many years ago. I know there are other way to properly square up stock but they all have the same basics.

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqow6t8lfiQ" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqow6t8lfiQ</a>
George

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #1 on: April 18, 2016, 03:31:45 AM »
Thanks for posting George, Clear information well shown. Helpful to we hobby swarf makers who took up the hobby in retirement. I simply liked machine shop in technical school and 60+ years later finally managed to get a small lathe 7 X 12" and a Seig X2 hobby mill. These keep me amused and more importantly perhaps, out from under the Wife's feet.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #2 on: April 18, 2016, 10:45:22 AM »
George,

Nice video.  My only (negative) comment is using a drill bit as the square adjuster.  Drill bits are not cylindrical in shape, there is a back-taper of (about) .0001/inch to .0003/inch on them that will throw things "off" if you are going for real squareness.  A piece of TG&P bar is much better.

Decades ago when I was doing squareness testing for the (before it was destroyed) National Bureau of Standards, we used ball bearings in a "support" that was bored for the bearing to slip fit into.  Everybody had a series of bearing supports that would take Sų .2500, Sų.500, & Sų1.000 bearing balls on slight height increments between the moving jaw and the stock -- but we were setting things to a squareness of .000010/inch in such operations.  Not something common at all.

Other than substituting TG&P bar for the drill bit, your approach is exactly what I was taught as an apprentice nearly 50 years ago.

Offline Doc

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #3 on: April 18, 2016, 12:03:34 PM »
These keep me amused and more importantly perhaps, out from under the Wife's feet.
John B

Hahaha John mine keeps saying I spend too much time out there but I think she really does like me getting as you say out from under foot.



George,

Nice video.  My only (negative) comment is using a drill bit as the square adjuster.  Drill bits are not cylindrical in shape, there is a back-taper of (about) .0001/inch to .0003/inch on them that will throw things "off" if you are going for real squareness.  A piece of TG&P bar is much better.

Decades ago when I was doing squareness testing for the (before it was destroyed) National Bureau of Standards, we used ball bearings in a "support" that was bored for the bearing to slip fit into.  Everybody had a series of bearing supports that would take Sų .2500, Sų.500, & Sų1.000 bearing balls on slight height increments between the moving jaw and the stock -- but we were setting things to a squareness of .000010/inch in such operations.  Not something common at all.

Other than substituting TG&P bar for the drill bit, your approach is exactly what I was taught as an apprentice nearly 50 years ago.
You are correct but the movable jaw should be loose enough to be able to move .002  also drills are not the same hardness the shank is left soft they are usually end quenched  so as your drill gets shorter and shorter it gets softer. Anyway I maybe should stop using the drills that way cant be good for them either.
George

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #4 on: April 18, 2016, 04:27:08 PM »
Nice video Doc.

I Absolutely agree with you this is the only sure way of squaring up a block, its very useful for people who are not quiet rounded on machining showing them this trick, also you mentioned the pressure and vises most people just assume the vise will be square and its not true another valid point... if you follow your instructions on squaring up as shown and you get a trapezoid check the vise first.

I use aluminium welding wire for the rocker support, its squashes into the uneven services and flattens on the loading jaw.

Anthony.   
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline krv3000

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #5 on: April 18, 2016, 05:34:56 PM »
brill post

Offline Arbalist

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #6 on: April 19, 2016, 04:49:34 AM »
Nice video. I was taught to lock the quill and move the knee, it's more rigid that way so less prone to chatter. I also use a fly cutter with a swing big enough to cover the piece in one pass if possible. They always kept off cuts of things like silver steel in various diameters at work so no shortage of round stuff for setting up stock in the mill vice.

Offline Alan Haisley

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #7 on: April 20, 2016, 09:15:29 AM »
George,
If the piece were, say, 2 1/2" square by 4-5" long, how would you do the last two ends? What I mean is what do you do when you don't have an endmill long enough to do the ends.
Alan

Offline DavidA

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #8 on: April 21, 2016, 11:43:55 AM »
I would use a square from the bed against on of the other prepared surfaces.

Dave.

Offline Doc

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #9 on: April 21, 2016, 07:50:57 PM »
If your part is wider than your cutter is in length. Simple load with end sticking out the side of vise and take a cleanup cut across the end down a little more that your parallel thickness. Then simply turn part 90 degrees keeping the solid jaw side too the solid jaw and set the part on the parallel on the area you just cleaned up. Then go ahead and mill the other side with a fly cutter and it will be square to all the other sides then simply flip and mill opposite side. If I get time this week end I'll put up another vid and show a little more on squaring up stock.
George

Offline Alan Haisley

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #10 on: April 22, 2016, 10:10:04 PM »
Thanks, George.

Offline Arbalist

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #11 on: April 23, 2016, 05:28:44 AM »
I would use a square from the bed against on of the other prepared surfaces.

Dave.

I've found the vice base gets in the way preventing me from doing this. I do use a small square though sometimes inside the vice.


Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #12 on: April 23, 2016, 12:46:12 PM »
My 90° Stop fits over the fixed jaw and indexes from the (flat) fixed jaw backing of my vise.  Inside the jaw face, I have a leg the drops down to (about) 5/8'ths of an inch above the between jaws face.  This allow me to use the leg as a square for such on end milling operations.  The 90° Stop starts off 1.375 wide and is clamped to the jaw with a pair of #10 swivel screws.  When it gets dressed down to (say) 1.050 wide, its time to make a new one.

Offline Doc

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #13 on: April 23, 2016, 06:21:21 PM »
Ok did a little video this morning squaring up a block #2. There were a few comments I tried to address. I attempted to show how to square up a block all around using a short end mill.



<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVKWn4LZBnU" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVKWn4LZBnU</a>
George

Offline awemawson

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #14 on: April 24, 2016, 03:03:24 AM »
My 90° Stop fits over the fixed jaw and indexes from the (flat) fixed jaw backing of my vise.  Inside the jaw face, I have a leg the drops down to (about) 5/8'ths of an inch above the between jaws face.  This allow me to use the leg as a square for such on end milling operations.  The 90° Stop starts off 1.375 wide and is clamped to the jaw with a pair of #10 swivel screws.  When it gets dressed down to (say) 1.050 wide, its time to make a new one.

Lew, that sounds interesting but I'm having a bit of difficulty imagining exactly what you've made. Any chance of posting a picture ?
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Spurry

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #15 on: April 24, 2016, 05:08:45 AM »
Doc
Thanks for the second squaring video, I'll try out your 'system'. You do not seem to get the swarf problems as I do.
My swarf always seems to prevent me from just giving a quick wipe over and plonking down. Perhaps yours is just better trained. :-)
Pete

Offline Arbalist

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #16 on: April 24, 2016, 05:43:48 AM »
I always keep a 1" paint brush on my mill table for sweeping out the swarf from the vice. A final wipe with my fingers ensures nothing gets left behind to spoil the job. I get the odd metal splinter once in a while but not often enough to deter me!

Offline Spurry

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #17 on: April 24, 2016, 08:44:13 AM »
I always keep a 1" paint brush on my mill table for sweeping out the swarf from the vice. A final wipe with my fingers ensures nothing gets left behind to spoil the job. I get the odd metal splinter once in a while but not often enough to deter me!

Me too. But Doc's swarf seems much better behaved.
Pete

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #18 on: April 24, 2016, 10:48:46 AM »
My 90° Stop fits over the fixed jaw and indexes from the (flat) fixed jaw backing of my vise.  Inside the jaw face, I have a leg the drops down to (about) 5/8'ths of an inch above the between jaws face.  This allow me to use the leg as a square for such on end milling operations.  The 90° Stop starts off 1.375 wide and is clamped to the jaw with a pair of #10 swivel screws.  When it gets dressed down to (say) 1.050 wide, its time to make a new one.

Lew, that sounds interesting but I'm having a bit of difficulty imagining exactly what you've made. Any chance of posting a picture ?

A) I am just not that good with a camera.

B) I have posed almost nothing photo-wise.


Offline awemawson

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #19 on: April 24, 2016, 11:00:49 AM »
Thanks Lew - you've sorted my grey cells out AND posted a picture  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Alan Haisley

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #20 on: April 27, 2016, 07:45:18 PM »
Great job, George! Thanks again.


Alan


Offline mechman48

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Re: Squaring up stock on the mill.
« Reply #21 on: April 28, 2016, 08:35:14 AM »
Nice video Doc; same method I was taught when doing my apprenticeship 50 years ago...

 +1 ... 'I use aluminium welding wire for the rocker support, its squashes into the uneven services and flattens on the loading jaw'.

Anthony. 

Same here...but above all ensure that your vice is sitting flat & square to your quill otherwise you'll not get any square sides. When I got my vice I ran a dti down my vice jaws & found about .004" discrepancy top to bottom, had to clean up the jaw seats, then ran dti along a 1-2-3- block set up in vice on parallels, front to back ( 'Y' axis ) & found a discrepancy of .007" ended up machining .004" off base, which revealed a hollow in the centre of the base casting... casting stresses  :scratch:, the .004" off left me with the casting sitting on the outer edges, but flat all round, so it's always advisable to check vices first.

George.
George.


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