Author Topic: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace  (Read 13448 times)

inthesticks

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Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« on: June 11, 2016, 10:03:41 PM »
I started this build on another forum. I quickly found I was wasting time with a "your new so you don't know anything" attitude. I quikly cut my losses and left.

This is a Dave Gingery style crucible furnace. I chose this style for two reasons. The body lifts out of the way so after skimming the dross, the crucible goes directly from furnace to pouring resulting in less heat loss from handling and greater safety again from less handling.

The furnace body is 16" in diameter by 24" high, cut from a discarded water press. tank. Max. aluminum capacity 30 lbs. in steel crucible. Bronze or iron 24 lbs. in #8 clay graphite crucible, #10 will fit but I don't plan to cast much iron.

I am planning on two types of burners. A Reil type atmospheric burner to melt aluminum and a Lionel Oliver type waste motor oil burner for high temp. metals or when my barrel is full.

Plan Of Action:
1. Build shell and shell attachments.
2. Build carriage and lifting mechanism.
3. Install refactories.
4. Build burners and day use oil tank.
5. Test furnace performance.

Enough talk, on with the build  :clap:. The first photo is the shell cut from water tank, I have a # of projects planned over the next few years so a steel delivery was in order. The 3rd pic is the bottom section with drain hole cut. The last pic. is the burner port cut and ready for burner mount.

I will compleat burner mount and post tomorrow.

Cheers All
CB
 

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #1 on: June 12, 2016, 01:15:19 AM »
So far so good,CB. I shall watch with interest as building a furnace smaller than your project is on my to do list. I was given about 10kg of brass taps a while back plus I also have some aluminium from various sources to play with.
      I shall be starting with a 1litre bucket and finding suitable refractory material within easy distance from home is problematical so that will be a home brew I think. The occasional brass melt dictates choice somewhat but I have found some hi temp mortar sold for pizza oven builds that has a 1000C rating nearby so am starting with that and perlite. Not sure whether to add sand a mortar already contains aggregates, (according to the bag 0-2mm).
      One of my neighbours seems to amass more than a few Al cans that I could also get. There appears to be some discussion on the source of much disinformation regarding the worth or lack thereof in smelting cans. But hey! they're free.

Regards,
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline DavidA

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #2 on: June 12, 2016, 09:59:08 AM »
John,

FYI, it hakes about 110 coke cans to make up 1 Kilo. And that includes the paint etc.

No idea how much usable metal you get from that.

Dave.

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #3 on: June 12, 2016, 11:10:43 AM »
Hi John B. I have no experiance with peralite but I am told it's ok for aluminum but will break down for the higher temp. metals. I assume your mixing it with the 1000*C refractory if you put a fireclay and sand mix hotface over it, it should give you some protection.

Most peoples objection to pop cans is how thin they are. Heavy oxidation producing lots of dross and resulting melt loss will occur. A very tight crush on the cans will help a bit.

Cheers
CB

Offline shipto

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #4 on: June 12, 2016, 04:45:34 PM »
I used perlite on my elelctric furnace  and I used a mix that I cant actually remember proportions at the moment but it was perlite, cat litter, sand and cement but to make the lid which I wanted a little lighter I added extra perlite while taking a little sand and cat litter away with the result that it was indeed lighter but it seems that it is breaking down quicker than the body of the furnace.
Turns out this life c**p is just one big distraction from death but a good one. For the love of god dont give yourself time to think.
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inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #5 on: June 12, 2016, 07:03:12 PM »
Hello everyone. That seems to be in agreement with what I have read SHIPTO.

Finished the burner port and mount today. The first pic. shows the assemblies ready to install and a 1 1/4" burner pipe to verify clearances. This represents the largest burner I plan to use. The 2nd pic. is the port extention installed. The 3rd pic is the burner adjustment spud (thats what I call it, may not be correct term) bolted in place. 4th pic. is burner pipe in operating position. The last pic. is the burner pipe pushed all the way in to check side wall clearance. Refractory will be 3.5" thick, so the 4" I measured is just about right taking into consideration the burner flare. The burner spud will also allow 10* of adjustment in any direction up, down or sideways.

Cheers All :beer:
CB
 

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #6 on: June 13, 2016, 03:22:19 AM »
At the moment it's all experimental with the refractory mix. Basically I'm making plinth blocks to test.
    Today I tried a 5 parts perlite to 1 part Mortar. A few days to dry out and I shall hit it with the torch and see what happens. The 4:1 mix seemed to take the torch ok.
       I do have thoughts of some form of hot face perhaps with clay or might start with straight hi temp mortar. BUT, that's way down the track. The more I read on the web the more confusing it seems.
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline nrml

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #7 on: June 13, 2016, 09:56:19 AM »
what you are building looks more substantial than the average trashcan forge. Why not spend a bit on ceramic fibre insulation and have the ability to melt cast iron if you want to. Ironman has demonstrated that this is definitely possible. 
« Last Edit: June 13, 2016, 12:04:00 PM by nrml »

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #8 on: June 13, 2016, 10:23:31 AM »
I agree John B there is alot of confusing and contradictory information out there. Pearlite, concrete morter and vermiculite seem to be ok for aluminum but breakdown into fluxes at higher temps. which will damage your crucibles your furnace lining and effect your melt. Years ago I operated the power plant at Orenda Aerospace in Mississauga, when the plant was decomissioned I got 2 1/2 boxes of A P Green's G-26 insulating firebrick heavily used in industry. I will be installing this in the bottom 2 sections with a 1" high alumina hotface. The top will recieve a castable insulating refractory with a hotface. Some of these products are quite expensive. For a small furnace occasionally melting lower temp. metals I would go with the less expensive options too.

I have lots of fine sand and white clay on my property. I want to try this material for my green sand and once I test the refractory properties of the clay maybe evan as a refractory.

Cheers
CB

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #9 on: June 13, 2016, 10:30:00 AM »
I agree NRML mineral wool is a fantastic material however I would hate to waste 2 1/2 boxes of high quality industry proven insulating firebrick. See above post.

Cheers
CB

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #10 on: June 14, 2016, 06:23:59 PM »
Hello again;

Following is the last couple days work. In 1st pic. are 6 alignment tabs hammered out of junk box brackets and the lifting bolts and attachments. I am using 3 1/2" shoulder bolts to extend the measurment between the lifting arms by 4". This will allow a 20" shell if I decide to play with a larger furnace in future and allow me to use the same carriage and lifting mechanism. Pics 4,5 and 6 are the parts and assembled preheat rack. Essentially the shell is complete. The bottom lip of middle section will get a refractory support ring and once the lid lift is complete I can fit it to the lid then the rack will get a finished edge around it's circumferance to avoid snags.

Break time, got to clean up the mess I've made so far and catch up on chores.  :whip:

Cheers All  :beer:

PS: I know the welding could be better, but heck I'm getting old and shaky.
« Last Edit: June 14, 2016, 09:07:09 PM by inthesticks »

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #11 on: June 15, 2016, 02:46:26 AM »
 OOPS!   :doh:
      Just re-read my earlier post (12 June 2016) and I am NOT using a 1 litre bucket. That would be ridiculously small. I meant to type that I was starting with a 15 litre bucket. Slightly larger.   :Doh:
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #12 on: June 15, 2016, 03:47:24 AM »
hi CB - just a suggestion : the preheat rack (pic 18) has the raw edge of the mesh which is likely to catch either skin or clothes - you might want to consider tacking say a 1/4" rod round the outside?

Dave

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #13 on: June 15, 2016, 09:06:48 AM »
Hello John B
Ha ha yes 15 liters sounds more usefull  :clap:

Hello Dmion
Please reread the post. I address this in the last line of the main body of the post. The edge can't be finished untill I determine where the lid lift struts will cross the edge of the rack. It will require trimming in 2 locations before the finished edge can be applied.

Cheers
CB

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #14 on: June 16, 2016, 04:39:36 AM »
.....
Hello Dmion
Please reread the post. I address this in the last line of the main body of the post. The edge can't be finished untill I determine where the lid lift struts will cross the edge of the rack. It will require trimming in 2 locations before the finished edge can be applied.

Cheers
CB

apologies CB, I'd missed that.     :doh:

Dave

Offline Toolshed

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #15 on: June 17, 2016, 03:03:28 PM »
Not sure if I already touted the AlloyAvenue website here.  Those guys know their sh!t when it comes to making furnaces and they are always helpful to new folks!  They helped me get from ZERO to casting....

From what I read over there, don't even bother with the prelite/grog....You'll be crying soon after.

ALSO, there are a lot of Canadian posters who might be able to help source more local things for you.  Though no one within a days drive of you....

https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer?ll=59.623325%2C-54.140625&spn=56.202277%2C214.277344&msa=0&mid=zHlqXRJDUiXo.kWP86wuXUV-o
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inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #16 on: June 17, 2016, 03:44:30 PM »
Hey TOOSHED,

Yes I have been on Alloy Avenue I found I was spinning my wheels in loose sand and left. All of Ontario is within a days drive of me except for the area west of Thunder Bay  to the Manitoba border. An early summer road trip to the Toronto area should fix me up with the harder to find materials I need.

Cheers
CB

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #17 on: June 19, 2016, 08:39:30 PM »
Hello all;

I managed to get in a couple of afternoons in the shop, fixed one screw-up and built the mobile base for the carriage.

Here are some pics.
1. The angle iron and deck cut, mitered and clamped ready to weld.
2. The casters and mounts ready to install. Didn't have matched set so, Heavy iron core swivels on furnace end, standerd duty on light end.
3. Casters installed, all welded up.
4. Crucible failure catch pan slide supports installed.
5. And just to try it out to see how it fits.

Cheers all :beer:
CB

inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #18 on: June 20, 2016, 07:34:51 PM »
Hello all;

Did not do much today, high winds nocking power out all afternoon. Got the ingot mould/crucible failure catch pan welded and fitted. This ones for aliminum
I will make a pan lined with refractory or a couple of inches of sand for the occassional iron melt. Its a good idea but its not my idea I have seen at least 2 other builders use this type of setup.

Here are some pictures.

Cheers All
CB

Offline LibbyHillBrewer

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #19 on: June 20, 2016, 08:38:17 PM »
Are you planning to allow the melted metal to drop right through the bottom of the furnace, directly into the ingot mold?

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inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #20 on: June 20, 2016, 09:32:25 PM »
LillyHillBrewer I guess your new to this, the reason its a good idea is it gives the mould a double function in the case of aluminum, you store it under the furnace so if you have a crucible failure and they do happen, your crucible will empty through the drain hole into the ingot mold rather than onto the ground.If your casting ingots its a simple matter to slide it out when you are ready to pour.

With iron were crucible falures can be so much more dangerous A refractory lined or partly sand filled pan will catch the contents of your crucible. You may be thinking of a direct melt furnace that some builders use to melt scrap aluminum they work but are highly oxidizing and are used mainly to reduce scrap to ingots, to many contaminants for direct casting.

Cheers
CB
« Last Edit: June 20, 2016, 10:03:14 PM by inthesticks »

Offline LibbyHillBrewer

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #21 on: June 20, 2016, 11:06:56 PM »
You're right; I am new.  Been reading about all this for a few months and trying to learn.  What you described makes perfect sense.  Thanks!

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inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #22 on: June 21, 2016, 12:20:45 PM »
Hello;

Here's what I should have finished yesterday till the power bumps screwed me up. Bolted the bottom section to deck using 3/8 X 1" NC bolts and lock washers.

Here's a couple of pics. On to the lift assemblies.

Cheers
CB

Offline Toolshed

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #23 on: June 22, 2016, 10:54:36 AM »
Ok that is MAJOR NICE WORK there man!!!!  I wish we were neighbors!!!!!!!

 :beer:
No matter where you go....There you are....

Metalworker
Woodworker
Metal Caster

Google Map of members.  Send me your city/state/country and I will get you added in!
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inthesticks

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Re: Dual Fuel Gingery Type Furnace
« Reply #24 on: June 22, 2016, 06:46:17 PM »
Your to kind TOOLSHED, thank you.

I managed to get a couple of hrs. in the shop this afternoon. Started on the lifting arch which both lifting assemblies will attach too.

Here are the pictures.
1. Arch deck mounts welded and drilled to accept 1/2 X 4" bolts.
2. A salvaged greasable bushing mandrel with pully, to be used as top lift pully for cable lift.
3.Arch cut mitered and welded with mandrel fitted to top of arch.
4.Arch installed in deck mounts.
5.How it looks so far.

Cheers all
CB