Author Topic: Keen Newbie  (Read 4124 times)

Offline Karlloss

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Keen Newbie
« on: July 03, 2016, 02:40:48 PM »
Hi, I've just joined this forum after coming across it when deciding on which mini mill to purchase. It was a great help and I've now bitten the bullet and invested in a Champion V20 Mill from Chester Hobby Store, it should be with me in a week.

I already have a Myford ML7 lathe, it has quite a bit of wear but it suffices for the jobs I'm doing.

I will kindly welcome some advice on what tools to by for the mill, I'm not sure whether to buy a end mill tool holder or to buy a set of collets to take the end mills.

Also, excuse my ignorance, but I am not totally sure on the difference between end mills and slot drills and which is better for what.

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #1 on: July 03, 2016, 03:01:03 PM »
Decide what ER collet size you would like to use (ER 32 is my preference) then start building a collection of them and have a chuck for both the Myford and mill to use the same set.  However as both appear to have MT2 tapers MT2 tooling looks like a great start, you can find lots of cheap or secondhand in that size.  A boring head comes pretty high up the list for making ROUND holes in all the odd sizes you don't have drills and reamers for.   I need to replace my boring head as it must have got so bored it walked off with someone.   :(

A milling vice is another must, then coach bolts till you get round to making some proper clamping tools.

Oh, and welcome to Madmodders

p.s
     the list of must haves is endless, best to buy in the beginning what you need to do a specific job, then design future work round those tools you have.  (wish I had had that advice)
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline krv3000

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #2 on: July 03, 2016, 03:07:41 PM »
hi and welcome

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #3 on: July 03, 2016, 03:08:04 PM »
Hi Joules, thanks for the reply and the info. I was looking at the MT2 collets as I've read somewhere that these allow more clearance between the work piece and tool as you don't have the collet chuck in the way? As I have no idea, I'm keen to hear your view on this?

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #4 on: July 03, 2016, 03:09:54 PM »
Welcome mate.

Two things come's mind on this particular size mill is to make a jig/fixture plate for performing your work, the plate can be 1/2'' thick aluminium, then you can use small angle plates Mini-Bites and parallels, by doing this you save on hieght as you are a little challenged with 200mm, dont despair you can do wonders with 200mm.

second do yourself an enormous favor by putting a set of Igaging scales on it, having a DRO just excels your machining experience. They are not expensive and makes for a great project by making brackets and stuff with the mill.. you can get them on ebay or a supplier near you.. i have them on my mill so i am directly recommending the product. Search you-tube for installing them you will get the idea,i have my project installing them here on this site if you want to search it.

Before you buy a vise study your machine and its work area..... you may not even have to buy one if you use fixture plates..


Hopes this helps and enjoy your purchase.

Anthony..

 
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #5 on: July 03, 2016, 03:15:08 PM »
Hi Joules, thanks for the reply and the info. I was looking at the MT2 collets as I've read somewhere that these allow more clearance between the work piece and tool as you don't have the collet chuck in the way? As I have no idea, I'm keen to hear your view on this?

My choice on ER collets is based on the fact one collet can cover upto 1mm size difference, they are handy for both tooling and stock holding.  MT2 collets are cheaper but really only good for the spot size they are designed for, they don't compress like an ER collet.   DRO is an excellent suggestion but a bit involved in setting up for a newbie.  Find a mentor, worth his weight in gold    :thumbup:

My guess is head clearance won't be an issue for quite some time till you get some machining experience under your belt.  Making swarf is the best way to learn the feeds and speeds for your machine.   Consume as many Youtube videos as you can cope with, Abom79, oxtoolco, clickspring and our own doubleboost are well worth subscribing too for inspiration and getting you upto speed.  Many other out there.

200mm ???  Spindle to table height for that mill is 390mm.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #6 on: July 03, 2016, 03:26:21 PM »
Thanks guys for the warm welcome.

The mill I have purchased has a quill DRO, so I guess that is a step in the right direction. 

As for the fixture plates, and again I apologise for what may seem stupid questions, do you mean clamping the work to the table? If not does anyone have a picture?

I'm up for having a mentor, I live in Chatteris Cambs, anyone want to come over and show me the basics :-) ??


Cheers Karlloss.

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #7 on: July 03, 2016, 03:30:07 PM »
Do you include BEER, board and lodgings  :beer:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #8 on: July 03, 2016, 03:35:48 PM »
Beer and food, always, as for lodgings I don't think the wife would be so keen!

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #9 on: July 03, 2016, 03:36:34 PM »
I can sleep on the sofa, it doesn't have to be that cozy    :lol:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #10 on: July 03, 2016, 03:40:54 PM »
I realised after I posted, how that might be interpreted ....doh!

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #11 on: July 03, 2016, 03:45:38 PM »
See if you can find your nearest model engineering society, that would be a good place to start, and you can get rid of them in an evening unlike the lodger....
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline mexican jon

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #12 on: July 03, 2016, 04:13:31 PM »
I can sleep on the sofa, it doesn't have to be that cozy    :lol:

 :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
People say you only live once ! I say thank F@*K can't afford to do it twice.

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #13 on: July 03, 2016, 04:18:10 PM »
A fixture plate is ( I believe but could be corrected... ) Merely a plate, 10mm or 3/8 thick is a fair choice with a matrix of holes eg a square grid or any pattern you want really.This allows you to use bolts/studs and clamp pieces to hole the work down whilst you work on it.

I also use mine for holding short ends /odd bits on the bandsaw to cut 'em, thus allowing adequate coffee intake whilst giving the semblance of working to SWMBO :thumbup:

By the way welcome to the asylum,the inmates are a friendly bunch

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #14 on: July 03, 2016, 09:23:44 PM »
howsitwork

you nailed it.

its a toolmakers canvass, better than any vise.

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #15 on: July 04, 2016, 04:34:14 PM »
ieezitin, howsitwork,

Thanks for the info. Surely the T-slots in the table perform the same function as a fixture plate, if a clamp set is used??

Offline DavidA

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #16 on: July 04, 2016, 05:20:48 PM »
Karloss,

Hi and welcome.

You wrote:

..Also, excuse my ignorance, but I am not totally sure on the difference between end mills and slot drills and which is better for what.

The crucial difference between the two is that you can't 'plunge' an end mill into a surface. You can do this with a slot drill This is because the cutting edges on an end mill do not extend to the centre of the tool. With a slot drill one of the cutting edges goes to (or passes) the centre and thus removes material pretty much like a twist drill when cutting vertically.

So, if you were to want to cut a slot in a block of steel you can just go down into the block with a slot drill and them start cutting your slot (this is why it is called a slot drill) but with an end mill you would have to first drill a hole to the required depth to get a starting point for the end mill; then do your sideways cutting.

If you look at the ends of the two cutters you will immediately see what the difference is.

Hope this helps.

Dave.

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #17 on: July 04, 2016, 05:30:10 PM »
ieezitin, howsitwork,

Thanks for the info. Surely the T-slots in the table perform the same function as a fixture plate, if a clamp set is used??

Exactly, I'm perfectly happy with my vice and you can even use it to hold another vice at an angle if you need too and all done pretty quick.   Each to their own, I have a vice on the drill press, not a tooling plate.  If you clamp directly on the mill bed put some 3mm scrap alloy under what your machining and set your zero for the top of the scrap.  If your intent on drilling through the bed your still going to do it with 10mm of alloy tooling plate.

 :wack:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #18 on: July 04, 2016, 07:47:51 PM »
kARLLOS.

NOPE.. dont work that way.. you always need to smudge, thats the beauty of a fixture plate 360 deg movement your tee slots dont move with the studs, best advice in the machining world is this: machining is all about removing material, the second is work holding how?,the third is how accurate do i need to be, not necessarily in this order... 

This ounce absorbed will make your life excessively easier ...

Anthony.

If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline AdeV

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #19 on: July 05, 2016, 05:10:58 AM »
Welcome aboard Karlloss! Always nice to see another victim err, member :) :wave:

WRT workholding, there's already loads of great advice here. Personally, I use a mixture of - clamping directly to the bed (these days, with a bit of scrap underneath, as per Joules, so you don't gouge your mill bed); a vice for quick & dirty stuff, and a jig/fixture plate if I need accuracy and/or repeatability. I usually use steel for my jigs, partly because I'm a masochist, but mostly because aluminium is expensive compared to steel...

I'd recommend buying a cheap set of cutters (the cheapest you can find) first - because you will blunt, burn and snap them with alarming regularity... Don't worry about it though, it's all part of the learning curve. Once you've got the feel of your machine, and the material you're milling, then go for more expensive cutters; they are better in every respect & you'll find that your knowledge of how your particular machine cuts means you'll rarely snap or burn another one. Be careful switching from HSS to solid Carbide though, they do need to be driven differently, and carbide is expensive and very easy to break if you aren't aggressive enough with it (DAMHIKT).

Last word from me: This is one of the best, if not the actual best, forum in the world to ask newbie questions on. It's the only totally friendly forum I know of, where even the political discussions peter out rather than end up in a massive row with toys thrown etc. You will not find another engineering forum anywhere which will guide you with such friendly advice. I'm not sure how Eric managed that, but this is now my go-to place for any kind of engineering question. So do ask away, no-one is going to accuse you of asking silly questions!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline Joules

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #20 on: July 05, 2016, 08:20:23 AM »
A fly cutter is a really handy tool to have, make or buy one.  You will learn alot about materials and the tool is cheap and simple to sharpen.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline millwright

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #21 on: July 05, 2016, 04:05:30 PM »
Hi Karlloss, and welcome to the site.  And I fully agree with what Ade said. you will learn a lot here.

John

Online awemawson

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #22 on: July 05, 2016, 04:42:25 PM »
..... or we'll lead you terribly astray  :bugeye:  :lol:

Welcome Karlloss  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Karlloss

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Re: Keen Newbie
« Reply #23 on: July 06, 2016, 03:25:50 PM »
Guys, thanks for the warm welcome and advice.

The comments on this being the best forum for advice are already noted, it is here that I found advice on which mill to buy and ended up on the Chester Hobby Store site, and bought the biggest I can afford. I just need to save up for the tools now!!

Likewise thanks for the advice on the drills and fixture plates and mill cutters.