Author Topic: Drill Doctor  (Read 7684 times)

Offline RobWilson

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Drill Doctor
« on: November 16, 2016, 04:40:10 PM »
Hi Lads


Any of you chaps have ,use a Drill Doctor ?   good ? crap ?



Rob

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #1 on: November 16, 2016, 04:47:10 PM »
 Hi Rob

I have a drill doctor it's a nice bit of kit does a good job, but if you can re grind a drill by hand and only have an occasional need to sharpen a drill you have to ? The expense

Sy
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Offline John Rudd

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #2 on: November 16, 2016, 04:57:35 PM »
Rob,
I have one of these....
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=17453
This what you mean?
Good for drills from 1/8 upwards...
Spent over an hour sharpening all my twist drills..... :dremel:
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Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #3 on: November 16, 2016, 05:14:42 PM »
Hi Rob

I have a drill doctor it's a nice bit of kit does a good job, but if you can re grind a drill by hand and only have an occasional need to sharpen a drill you have to ? The expense

Sy

Hi Stew

Its mainly for smaller drill bits Stew ,say under 5mm , my eyes seam to be a bit naff at the moment ,(must go for an eye test) , I am fine grinding 6mm and above by hand no problem , its just the smaller sizes  :palm:

Cheers Rob 

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2016, 05:15:51 PM »
Rob,
I have one of these....
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=17453
This what you mean?
Good for drills from 1/8 upwards...
Spent over an hour sharpening all my twist drills..... :dremel:

Any chance you could bring it North next time your up John ,just so I can give it a test drive  :dremel:


Rob

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2016, 05:31:47 PM »
Got one Rob and it's a good gadget. Mine does upto 13mm but they can go larger with bigger collet ( which I forgot to get when on hols in USA - bugger!) :hammer:

Really fancy Stevensons magical drill sharpener as demo'ed at Donc by  a shifty looking bloke in a jumper :lol:

John was showing it off for Arc euro and I recon it's a marvel but wasn't totally sorted at the time. Ketan maybe able to update us on that one?

Ian

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #6 on: November 16, 2016, 05:38:46 PM »
Rob,
I have one of these....
http://www.sealey.co.uk/PLPageBuilder.asp?id=20&method=mViewProduct&productid=17453
This what you mean?
Good for drills from 1/8 upwards...
Spent over an hour sharpening all my twist drills..... :dremel:

Any chance you could bring it North next time your up John ,just so I can give it a test drive  :dremel:


Rob

Yup will do...I'll dig it out from the mountain of crap I have.....just need to remember to put it in the car :doh:
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Offline jcs0001

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #7 on: November 16, 2016, 09:45:28 PM »
Rob:

I have one with the collet to go to 1/2 in.  (Drill doctor).  It works quite well if I do my part and I understand (but have not tried it) that by holding really small drill bits in a pin chuck it will work with smaller bits than advertised.

Mine needs another diamond wheel - I found a very basic one missing a few parts but with a new wheel - at a thrift shop recently so just need to change it over.

John.

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #8 on: November 16, 2016, 10:30:21 PM »
I have had a Drill Doctor for more than 20 years.  I have the collet set for it that will locate a 3/4 inch drill bit.  I do not use it on bits smaller than 3/32 inch.  [I have a "hand guide" set that will take me down to .005 inch bits.]  The biggest hassle with the Drill Doctor is getting the "fingers" to grab and orient the bit properly -- it often takes me several "tries" to get that right.  As I live just north of the factory, getting parts is not an issue for me.

Offline PK

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #9 on: November 17, 2016, 12:20:50 AM »
I've got one, it does a better job than it has any right to do..  I was pleasantly surprised..
As others have said, it struggles on the tiny ones...

PK

Offline smiffy

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #10 on: November 17, 2016, 02:59:09 AM »
I brought one recently from MSC as they are on special offer at the moment and for what it is it does a ok job .   Mike

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #11 on: November 17, 2016, 03:46:16 AM »
Does it matter which drill doctor? There seems to several models.

Is this fine for home shop needs?
http://www.drilldoctor.com/drill-doctor-750x.html

Does it works right out of the box and "as seen on TV" or should I buy some other bits as well? 2,4 - 19 mm Dia range seems pretty good for me.

How long does the abrasive wheel lasts? Should I get another as well?

Pekka

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #12 on: November 17, 2016, 09:26:18 AM »
Pekka,
One individual over on another website asked about wearing out the wheel prematurely, my curt response was dont be so heavy handed........but he deserved it.... :coffee:

To answer your question in a more polite manner, it wouldnt do no harm buying a spare diamond stone for it if you think it will wear out.....I didnt when I bought mine, but I might just do that now....
That said, there isnt a lot of dust produced from touching up drills......

Good luck with your purchase... :beer:
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Offline jcs0001

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #13 on: November 17, 2016, 09:48:02 AM »
I've also read that the wheel can be turned around (it's a small cylinder) so as to use the other end if it has been used for small drill bits for most of it's life.  The larger bits use up more of the area on the diamond wheel so preclude doing this.

I'll take a look at mine later today and report back.

John.

Offline David Jupp

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #14 on: November 17, 2016, 09:52:34 AM »
I've used one - biggest disappointment for me was how fiddly setting drill in position can be.  As Lew mentioned it can take a number of attempts.  Much easier to set for slightly larger drills.  It is perhaps better than my old Martek, but not hugely so.

Offline jcs0001

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #15 on: November 17, 2016, 10:22:14 AM »
Just checked to see if reversing the diamond drum would work.  My drill doctor is the 500 - so good up to 1/2in bits.

Both a 1/4 and 1/2 in. bit reach to the rear of the sharpening drum so reversing it should work.  Mine needs a change although visually it looks good compared to the new drum.  Feeling it reveals that it is now very smooth at the back and less so near the front.



It's not easy to see however this is a 1/4 in. drill bit reaching near the back of the drum - this is similar whether set up for 118 deg. or 135 deg.

Have any of you used it for split pointing bits?  I've never tried that and would have to look at the instructions to see how.

John.

Offline mcostello

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #16 on: November 17, 2016, 10:27:18 AM »
Splitting points goes by feel, take it easy. If there is not enough clearance on Your drill bits, just turn the bit clockwise when looking at the cutting end of the drill bit, hope I have the direction right as I am not in front of the machine and am ASSUMING My memory is correct.
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #17 on: November 17, 2016, 02:00:05 PM »
Slight hickup....found good prices including P&P and all....but they were US half vlotage models...european 230VAC/50Hz models seem to be somewhere 270 and over 300 in Finnish shops. At that price point it does not make sense.

Few amazon searces more, but it looks like I'm going to ditch it. I thought there finally would be a touch up tool to keep all drills sharp.

Pekka

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #18 on: November 17, 2016, 02:50:23 PM »
Pekka

I got mine on holiday in USA and got a 110 v converter for it. Most work sites in uk run on 110v so they're available, mates in Denmark use 110 volt stuff so must be available on continent.

Wish I'd got the bigger collet as getting one here's a problem. Meant to buy one in states but forgot! I got the 750 model.

Did get a spare wheel but  must try to be less heavy handed as there is a tendancy to push the collet into the machine when using it ( might just be me though!).

Ian




Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #19 on: November 17, 2016, 03:30:59 PM »
Evening Lads

Thank you  for all the comments and advice  :thumbup: ,  mmmmmmmmmm maybe I should just bulk buy the smaller sizes and just bin the bit  once dull , it just seams a bit waist full .



I will think on it .

Thanks Rob



 

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #20 on: November 17, 2016, 03:34:38 PM »
Just checked to see if reversing the diamond drum would work.  My drill doctor is the 500 - so good up to 1/2in bits.

Both a 1/4 and 1/2 in. bit reach to the rear of the sharpening drum so reversing it should work.  Mine needs a change although visually it looks good compared to the new drum.  Feeling it reveals that it is now very smooth at the back and less so near the front.



It's not easy to see however this is a 1/4 in. drill bit reaching near the back of the drum - this is similar whether set up for 118 deg. or 135 deg.

Have any of you used it for split pointing bits?  I've never tried that and would have to look at the instructions to see how.

John.

John, I have been loaned a drill doctor on long term. My mate has acquired a proper Union tool and cutter grinder so doesn't use the drill doctor these days.

I sharpened a couple of old sets of drills with it and was quite pleasantly surprised at how decent a job it can do.

I did split the points on the drills over 4 mm dia up to 13mm and it does that very well also.

In essence there can be a bit of fiddling about to get the drill set up and indexed properly,but for the price of the unit they do a good job. Most certainly a huge improvement over the old Martek that I used to own.. As a couple of others have said previously,be gentle when feeding the drill into the wheel and don't lean on it or the wheel life will be dramatically reduced.

I do wonder whether the wheel might also benefit from being occasionally de-clogged by using a diamond wheel cleansing stick.......OZ.

ETA: I also meant to say that small diameter drills(1-4mm) are often so cheap to buy in packs of 10 that they aren't worth the hassle of re-sharpening
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #21 on: November 17, 2016, 03:42:01 PM »
Evening Lads

Thank you  for all the comments and advice  :thumbup: ,  mmmmmmmmmm maybe I should just bulk buy the smaller sizes and just bin the bit  once dull , it just seams a bit waist full .



I will think on it .

Thanks Rob

Rob, again referring to the mate who loaned me the drill doctor. He sharpens small drills with the dremell and a diamond cut off disc. He wears a pair of binocular magnifiers when doing this to be able to see the tip clearly. It is a very successfull technique......OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline PK

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #22 on: November 17, 2016, 04:09:41 PM »
Mine is a 110V model running on a cheap step down transformer.

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #23 on: November 17, 2016, 04:09:56 PM »
Hi OZ

I suppose could give an Optivisor ago  :dremel:


Rob

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #24 on: November 17, 2016, 06:48:54 PM »
Rob,being able to clearly see what your doing is more than half the battle won.

When I say he uses a diamond dremel cut of disc,he is using the cheek of the disc rather than the edge.....OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #25 on: November 18, 2016, 12:34:05 PM »


When I say he uses a diamond dremel cut of disc,he is using the cheek of the disc rather than the edge.....OZ.

Hi OZ

I thought as much  :thumbup: , I think I may have a few of those wee Dremel tool disc's some where .  :dremel:


Rob 

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #26 on: November 18, 2016, 03:50:31 PM »
rob

I too thought the cost  compared to a load of drills but then broke a specific drill, later at night, all suppliers closed etc, etc. Three days cursing and a trip to suppliers later...

For the ease of being able to say "fixed it" it was worth the cost. Plus it was a" a lovely reminder of our holiday my love" rather than the usual holiday tat ! :beer:

Devious - who me??? :thumbup:

Only you can make that decision, I've no regrets  ( apart from not getting the larger collet obviously).

Ian


Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #27 on: December 09, 2016, 02:57:15 PM »
Uuh...ordered 750 model from Amazon, "free delivery" my ass, delivery + all other expences added up 60 real money over that 139$ price tag.

Got it and first looks is a bit disapointing....looks chinese made, lot of critical parts are plastic etc. but have to try it out to see how it performs.

http://screwdrivers.viabloga.com/news/drill-doctor-internal-mechanism-220v-convertion
Looks like a cheap DC motor and rectifier.

MFG is coming at it at a little obtuse angle, looks like marketing talk to me.
http://www.drilldoctor.com/faq
I live outside North America - can I use my Work Sharp Sharpener with an adapter?

A transformer (not a complete power supply), plugged into single phase 230v, can drop the voltage to the 115v range, but doesnt account for the difference from US frequency at 60 Hz and Internationally at 50 Hz and may not regulate the voltage or provide sufficient amperage well depending on the quality of the device. Running on 50 Hz puts a greater strain on the motor, so while the correct voltage may be supplied to the unit, the frequency isnt correct to get full performance (reduced power = lower efficiency = extra heat = destroyed unit). The voltage may also not be precise, out of a transformer and the 115v motors are designed to run in a specific range. High or low voltage will likely cause failures.

I did dig up my old 220/115 VAC tranny, but it spits out a bit too much voltage and it is that old that I'm going to retire it, checked it inside and the euro-plug is bit funny, insulation would not pass moderns standards etc....Don't like.

Expecteng it to perform impecably, marketing is that massive that if ti produces nothing less than perfectly sharpened drills in seconds I'll be very disapointed.

Pekka

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #28 on: December 09, 2016, 03:58:19 PM »
Pekka,

What I do is to be very careful when "aligning" the bit with the "snap down leaves."  Getting that wrong can easily destroy your bit!  I place the "bit" in the "chuck" so that it is a "slip fit loose."  Then, retracting the "leaves," insert the "chuck" and bit into the "alignment guide" and release the "leaves" -- and (light finger pressure) twist the bit to make sure that the "leaves" have a good hold on the bit.  Then I tighten the "chuck" (with finger pressure to mate the tip of the bit to the metal "depth setter").

With that as "care," everything seems to work out fine.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #29 on: December 11, 2016, 05:25:18 AM »
Thank you Lew,

I will get 230/115 VAC transformer tomorow (If we can me schedules co incidence after the work).

I did try 14 mm and 6,5 mm OD drill chucking and alignind to it. I have 750 model.

1) There is stop screw (MTO!) I adjusted it all in - minimum material removal...that looks like it affects on the aligment too....

2) Is the aligment mechanism designed to work with old fashion drills with complete heel? Most of my drills have the heel pretty much cut out.


Question: How much interaction this "aligment" and depthing adjustment (MTO) have interaction? Is it relevat to sharpening?

Probbaly just have to try out some less worn out drills and just to polish a minimum amount to see how does it conforms with original drill's sharpening.

Thnak you,
Pekka

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #30 on: December 11, 2016, 11:52:03 AM »
Pekka,

1) My Drill Doctor is more than a decade old.  I would have to go look to tell you what model number it is.

2) Your photograph PC113969c.jpg shows the "leaves" I refer to.  It appears in your photograph that there is some adjustment in the "stop" in your machine.  I would be very careful about "playing" with that.  [Opinion.]

3) The "heel issue" is why I emphasize setting the "leaves" to contact the flute just "above" the cutting lip.

Does that help?

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #31 on: December 11, 2016, 01:54:01 PM »
Thank you,

I think that I have enough information to try it out when I'll get the transformer.

2. Yes that is an adjustement that is used to adjust depth of grinding. Darex calls it Material Take Off. Basically it is a stop that limits drill bit extension. larger extension = More material removed. I think it will have effect on that "leaves" aligment too. To what extent I don't know.

On trainig video has a basic setup (something like all in and then "three" something out....it can't be rounds, the whole adjustment span is not three rounds. The bolt end is stationary and there is knob (nut) on the other side.

Pekka

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #32 on: December 18, 2016, 12:31:51 PM »
OK, I have done some testing and so far I am not impressed. I have tested only a little bit and only resorted to the instructions that came with it. I don't claim expertice on drill sharpening. I just use a lot off drills. Sales pitch makes it sound like it works straigh out of box and using it does not need any fiddling.

I started with good drills that were only slight battle damage:
* 4,0 mm stub drill (for pop rivets)
* 6,0 mm very traditional drill, but fully ground.
* 6,5 mm drill with larger than normal space for swarf and really easy drilling, needs very little force.

It is not easy to develop good feel with it. Maybe 100 drills later I can produce near acceptable results with it? I geel like it needs a special touch... First drill came out awfully facetted, if held softly the plastic drill holder wibrates in plastic cradle and even when shape looks nearly acceptable it looks horrible under magnifying lense and cuts unevenly.

Yes, it can salvage drills - sort off,
* that sort of geometry is ground that drill cuts metal, but chissel end pushes metal.
*  I haven't foud out a usefull way to thin the chissel end. It sort of works, but not really.
* Grinding wheel leaves very coarse finnish
* Plastic parts and weak construction leads vibration/faceting/bad accuracy.

I'm putting here some pictures of the 4 mm drill that I felt was partial success. Compared to original sharpening the drill doctor left it worse on these points:
* needs much more force to push, web is thick, thinning does nothing on this small size
* Coarse finnish, burr, probably edge does not last too long

See picture PC183991_4mm how it should be and rest how it comes out of drill doctor

Offline ieezitin

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #33 on: December 18, 2016, 06:26:01 PM »
Pekka

You are not going to achieve sharpening that 4mm drill its too small for the machine,  the 6mm is about its limit for a half decent grind, these machines don't really work the process is inherently flawed.

For small or large size drills to be sharpened you either need to throw $1500 minimum for a Deckel or equivalent or learn to do it by hand its not hard, or make a tool grinder.

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #34 on: December 18, 2016, 08:27:16 PM »
Jees! the drills in the photos do show very poor grinding profile and finish. Pekka,are you using a carborundum wheel,or the diamond coated one?

I can honestly say I have never had any drills come out looking that rough with the Drill Doctor I have on loan.

If I get a few minutes spare later today I will pull it out of the box and try a couple of grinds on 4 and 6 mm drills and see how it turns out compared to the ones you have shown......OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #35 on: December 19, 2016, 12:14:44 AM »
It is a brand new "diamond" wheel they say. And it should be the "fine" wheel, option is "coarse".

Pekka

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #36 on: December 19, 2016, 03:15:27 AM »
I really need some advice/feedback. I have sharpened some drills long time ago manually and concluded that the drills cut, but hard to get cutting edges really symmetrical. I appreciate that drill sharpening is bit complex and involved, but it can be done and drill doctor promises that.

Pekka

You are not going to achieve sharpening that 4mm drill its too small for the machine,  the 6mm is about its limit for a half decent grind, these machines don't really work the process is inherently flawed.

For small or large size drills to be sharpened you either need to throw $1500 minimum for a Deckel or equivalent or learn to do it by hand its not hard, or make a tool grinder.

Anthony.

An nevertheless, advertisement says "Drill Doctor 750X , sharpens 2.5-19 mm drill bits with custom point angle between 118 and 135".


Jees! the drills in the photos do show very poor grinding profile and finish. Pekka,are you using a carborundum wheel,or the diamond coated one?

I can honestly say I have never had any drills come out looking that rough with the Drill Doctor I have on loan.

If I get a few minutes spare later today I will pull it out of the box and try a couple of grinds on 4 and 6 mm drills and see how it turns out compared to the ones you have shown......OZ.

I think that the grinding wheel has some bigger diamond particles here and there, that's why the finish is coarse. I tried to adjust it to grind bare minimum, but the "leaves" that center the drill don't work well on very small protrusion. I'm also grinding very slowly.

I wonder if the wheel is also a little off center, because first few tries produced multifaceted grind and could feel how it was vibrating. Impossible to get any good edge without using two hands to move the collet slowly and steady.

I wonder if it improves or gets worse when used a bit more? The main sharpening port feels a little shady. The tip splitting port is really tight. First I was thinkkint that I'm doing something wrong when i pushed the collet forward and nothing happened. Then I checked everything and because it looks like it should work I tried with a bit more force and then it did ground the bit (funny split....but least some thinning) and then the collet was stuck :Doh:

I'm not excluding here an operator lack of skill, but it appears like it could be tinkered to sharpen dozen identical drills, but a box of different shape and size drills is hardly worth of the hassle.



Pekka

Offline Roger B

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #37 on: December 20, 2016, 04:04:54 AM »
Has anyone tried the Proxxon drill sharpener? I looked at one a while ago but at the time thought that the cost ~200 would buy a lot of drill bits.
Best regards

Roger

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #38 on: December 20, 2016, 01:09:40 PM »
Saw the proxon once and it feels like a toy. I did not like it.

On HMS only way I can rationale drill sharpener is that it can sharpen most drill sizes and designs one off when you have chipped the last fraction size drill and want to sharpen it without too much distraction.

That what I was expecting from rom drill doctor. But it looks like it drill doctor falls shor of my expectations.

What I really would like to is to lap the the drill right at the first trouble. To restore sharpness before any real trouble.

First picture is of drills 10 mm and smaller. These are past prime, but drill doctor would leave then more dull than they are now. Bugger.

I was trying some more with very old fashion and cheap drill design that does not cut well even straigh out of box. Standard setting as on the guide did not produce cutting edge. Bit more cutting angle (two notches back (+) at the initial setting changes cutting angle closer, but the chisel angle looks bit funny.

Last picture is 10 mm drill bit after drill doctor and 9,5 mm similar stock drill.

How can I make this drill doctor work or are they sopposed to be really this bad?

Pekka

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #39 on: December 20, 2016, 03:22:20 PM »
Pekka -- I have never seen such a chewed up tip on any bit going through my Drill DoctorMy 2 cents worth of observation is that either (A) you got shipped a unit that should have been rejected, or (B) your unit was damaged in transit.  As I have said, my unit is more than a decade old.  The only "issue" I have with it is getting the "leaves" to align the bit properly -- something that counts more as "finicky."

According to their website, the e-mail address for them is info@darex.com -- I would send them a couple of your pictures and ask for "suggestions."  They used to be both knowledgeable and helpful (though it has been 5+ years since last I dealt with them).

Offline krv3000

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #40 on: December 20, 2016, 06:56:59 PM »
hi any one seen them yellow ones on eBay they use er20 collets go from 2mm to 13 mm   

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2016, 03:33:23 PM »
Lew: Thank you. I drop them a mail with pictures. Let's see. I would like to isolate the problem somewhere.

Now that I found really bad drill I can use to try out different techniques and see what is the holdup.

Pekka

* I actually got an answer from their technical support containing bit more information than the manual about relation of the Alignment of the drill/chuck vs. drill bit angle and helix. That I already had some glue, but the write-up was really nice and I will go trough it carefully.

* I get the radial chuck cam action, but i haven't got clear understanding how the chuck stops positive on "feed". The spark out feels not very exact. Maybe I just should more force, but I don't want to put too much flex on it. Or maybe it just needs that?
« Last Edit: December 22, 2016, 03:01:52 AM by PekkaNF »

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #42 on: December 23, 2016, 07:49:29 AM »
Allright...we are getting somewhere

The instruction I got was sort of supplement to DD consumer instructions. It has the same step byt step instructions and some little extras that needs a little interpretation. Not sure if I got it all correctly, but I'm writing here my interpretation. Feel free to comment.

Things I reset and star all over:

1. Set the "depth" MTO to all out (max) and then three notches back. This seems to affect least as much on material removal than aligment.

2: On aligment por there is indexer (relief angle setting), marked at the middle 118....apparently this middle setting is actually used to compensate drill helix angle. The 118 point angle refers to normal helix angle on that size drills.

That needs an anticipation or experiment. The suplement says that if the angle between lip and chissel point is suposed to be 45 to 60 degrees. If it is larger turn notch (or two) positive clock vice at the alligment and vice versa.

3. Apparently I was pressing the drill down too gentle during sharpening, it really seems to need delibrate action.

So, this is about drill that cuts well, looks about right, but bore size is a bit over. 10,0 mm drill produces 10,1 - 10,2 mm oversize hole on GRP500 cast iron. Seems to cut also on lip more that the other one. Needs to check.

Some pictures here and bit more testing follws. Did sharpen the 4 mm and 6 mm drills with same setting and results.

Darex tech support was nice and helpfull. Thank you Lew.

Pekka

Offline mcostello

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #43 on: December 23, 2016, 09:57:31 AM »
Evidently I don't have the same model as You have but the blue color You are getting is detrimental to the life of the drill bit. Grind a bit slower, the drill is getting too hot.
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #44 on: December 23, 2016, 10:14:10 AM »
I'd assumed that he'd painted it with layout blue to see better where the grind was  :scratch:
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Offline sparky961

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #45 on: December 23, 2016, 10:59:12 AM »
I'd assumed that he'd painted it with layout blue to see better where the grind was  :scratch:

Same assumption here.

The drill still looks pretty rough from what I've seen and used coming off a Drill Doctor.  Maybe I'm not considering the magnification factor of the picture correctly?

I'd advise you stick with it.  Keep trying to adjust this and that, both your technique and the settings on the machine.  Most people I've spoken with regarding the Drill Doctor will say that they do produce very good results but it takes some practice to get the right feel for using it.  I have been very close to purchasing one myself a few times, but the $200 CAD price tag is a bit of a deterrent.  Maybe some day when I'm in the right mood and its on sale.

Although I get very acceptable results sharpening by hand, there are times where I want a perfectly symmetrical drill and I find this difficult to achieve with any amount of speed and repeatability without some kind of device of fixture like this.  You should be able to eventually achieve that result with the Drill Doctor.

Your idea of bluing the tip (we're assuming) is good.  The way I check is to chuck up a small piece of aluminum in the lathe, very slow speed, and feed the drill at a moderate rate while watching how the chips curl away.  On a lathe, rather than a drill/mill, you can easily see how the chips are coming off the stationary bit and which cutting lip is taking more or less material.  With a bit of time and care you can adjust a drill but by hand to cut pretty darn close to perfect - but it takes a while going back and forth between the lathe and grinder/belt.  I think when you get good at it the Drill Doctor should be faster and produce better results.

I've been watching this thread to see where it takes you.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #46 on: December 23, 2016, 11:01:01 AM »
I'd assumed that he'd painted it with layout blue to see better where the grind was  :scratch:
Yup I agree, layout blue to see where its being ground.....the colour is too consistant for it to have been overheated.... There are no shades of blue or any other colour...( fifty shades of grey mebbe.... :lol:)
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #47 on: December 23, 2016, 11:51:16 AM »
No fifty shades of blue...just used blue felt tip pen. Hard to see othervice under magnifuing glass the chissel point accurately.

The quality of sharppening has got better by two factors:
* New diamamond wheel seems to have some bigger particles in it and after about 15 sharpening trys the biggest ones are mostly gone now
* those pebels might have caused resonance....or I have learned to hold the drill chuck firmer, or both
* Those plastic parts are made for certain tolerances, it might be a little stiff at the begining.

I agree this needs a little bit more involvment. Drill doctor just might be cheap enough to buy, but not too cheap to be any serious use. Downside is that you must be pretty observant and know what adjustment to use. It is not just point and shoot.

I have been watching some videos and looks like most people are happy when drill cuts. I think that is not nearly enenough....drill has to cut to size and should keep the edge long.

More learning and practicing to do.

Pekka

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #48 on: December 23, 2016, 12:26:59 PM »
All interesting reading lads.  :thumbup:

It looks like I may have the problem sorted,  :palm:   I went for an eye test today and I need specs for close up work, so specs on order, I should have them in 12 days  :borg: 

So hopefully I can just return to free hand sharpening  :dremel:


Rob

Offline appletree

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #49 on: December 23, 2016, 02:20:27 PM »
Are they the 12 days of Christmas by any chance?

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #50 on: December 23, 2016, 02:52:57 PM »
A Partridge in a Pear Tree? Or specsavers for Rob or Drill doctor for Aplletree?

Anyway more testing:

3,2 mm pop rivet drill (IXCY or something...) really nice drills I buy them 10/20 pcs boxes...helix about 26 degrees, pint angle about 118. Align it on -1 mark, sharpen and split. Unbelievably perfect. See the picture. It did drill well and in size (that I could measure).

Then with great trepidation I choose Alpen Forte 6,5 mm slow helix 35 degree model that had served well but had one edge chipped. Align it to -1 notch and sharppening looked about right. No need to split, original split was close. Drilled well.

I thought that I have now it pretty much sorted and choose old traditional form English made Dormer 10,0 mm drill that had corners chipped. It has been sharpened by shop at one point. Chissel angle was about  60 degrees, point angle about 116 degrees and helsix close to 30 degrees, nothing exotic.

Aligned it exactly at 118 degree mark, sharpening took ages close to 30 rounds, but looked pretty much ok in the end. Chissel angle close to 45 degrees. Splitting just about touched it. But the drill worked fine. But probably would not be big tamale on startting the hole.

Starting to think: Does anybody knows what angle the drill lip should be set at the chuck vs. helix? Starting to think that optical setting could be more likely to hit the spot?

Pekka

* Regarding facetting and rough grinding at the begining....I'm not the only one. Looks like DD is a bit prone to resonance, least when wheel is new, but works with a fim grip.
http://www.hobby-machinist.com/threads/any-tips-for-using-the-drill-doctor-x750.4282/
« Last Edit: December 23, 2016, 03:53:20 PM by PekkaNF »

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #51 on: December 24, 2016, 07:16:16 AM »
Happy to see you are now getting better results. I had a look at some drills I sharpened with the DD some months ago and none of them looked anything like as rough as your first ones.

I also have some 4's5's and 6mm drills which all sharpened well and cut nicely after the DD treatment.

 I did also try the optical alignment method with some drills that the geometry looked wrong on after using the DD setting mechanism. It was reasonably successful,so perhaps worth you doing a bit of experimentation with that method......OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #52 on: December 24, 2016, 03:29:20 PM »
Thanks

How did you made the optical alignment? What was reference on the chuck and did you determined the relationship with helix angle too?

How did you set the lengt? With long drills it would be easy to make a disc w/ lock that is locked at the end of the drill in the chuck when DD aligment port is used, but here only to set the lengt (that disc as a stop) and dril/disc free to rotate until chuck is tightened.

Pekka

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #53 on: December 24, 2016, 05:29:12 PM »
Pekka, I didn't use anything scientific at all. I simply set the drill in the collet with the standard claw mechanism and then withdrew the collet and slightly rotated the drill while trying my best not to move it lengthwise.

I did this on some drills because it seemed the grinding op was producing a negative helix geometry at the tip of the drill. I never really fully understood why a few drills required this,but it seemed the relationship of where grinding commenced was all wrong.

The point I'm making here is that I managed to achieve an improved result by adjusting the drill by eye then you might find some further improvement by employing a setting device or using a more reliable indexing method than I used.

Thinking about the possible cause for this I think maybe some of the drills had a steeper helix angle therefore the relationship of the setting claws and the lips was wrong to get the correct grinding geometry....OZ. 
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #54 on: December 25, 2016, 04:34:20 AM »
My working hypothesis is that the drill helix agle and or tip geometry has effect n centering on the DD depth/claw adjustment.

Reason is the the traditional tip drills works reasonably well, but the drills with very different helix angle or exotic tips sharpen badly on first try. Then you need to check the chissel angle (DD use clock metaphore instead of angle) and adjust the initial setting for few notched either direction accordngly. It is in the manual, but I'm having problem understanding it. I think it has been simplified to a larger audience.

DD method is not bad it should work very well with standards drills and improve the sucess rate if you are very new to sharppening of the drills. It must be cheap or we would not buy it. Looks like next real step up is about 1000 EUR/USD/GBP and often it just buys speed and durability, not much more flexibility.

Now, my rationel is that if I could have an optical method of intial setting for depth and angle first time success rate should be better with DD.

Have to think of it a little.

1) My first instict was as described in the previous post to use DD setting for cutting depth and aproximate lip angle adjustment, tighten a disc/collet something to lock the depth in relation of the chuck, but allow angular adjustment and then use different fixture for optical angle adjustment.

2) Second idea was to use two V:s or something to support DD chuck and then have a plastic transparent endstop and simple craticule. Drill point is gently placed on the stop for depth and vieved from the front parallel to lines (perimeter of the craticule matked few common settings and can be turned to set desired angle), but there would be some wear. Maybe a easy to change transparent stop piece?

Maybe it is time to "lab" that hypothesis firs.

Pekka
« Last Edit: December 26, 2016, 02:05:53 AM by PekkaNF »

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #55 on: December 25, 2016, 06:17:07 AM »
 
 1) My first instict was as described in the previous post to use DD setting for cutting depth and aproximate lip angle adjustment, tighten a disc/collet something to lock the depth in relation of the chuck, but allow angular adjustment and then use different fixture for optical angle adjustment.

2) Second idea was to use two V:s or something to support DD chuck and then have a plastic transparent endstop and simple craticule. Drill point is gently placed on the stop for depth and vieved from the front parallel to lines (perimeter of the craticule matked few common settings and can be turned to set desired angle), but there would be some wear. Maybe a easy to change transparent stop piece?


Yes,that is the problem explained nicely. An optical or mechanical jig or mechanism that preserves the length setting while allowing angular adjustment would likely produce far better overall sharpening  results......OZ
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #56 on: December 25, 2016, 05:51:16 PM »
Pekka

thanks for the update on the drill doctor. Hadn't considered the helix angle ( oops) effect on point but always wondered what the notches either side of 118 were for!

Generally quite happy with mine although split pointing with it is sometimes a bit hit and miss ( or not terribly even ( operator error no doubt))

There's some quite nice microscopes on e bay currently Rob ? Possibly take more water with the Newcastle brown?

Happy Christmas one and all!

Ian

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #57 on: December 25, 2016, 06:54:46 PM »
One of the greatest shortcomings with a device like the Drill Doctor is the very small diameter of the grinding wheel. With a wheel of far greater diameter I reckon the quality of the results would be far less hit and miss...OZ
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #58 on: December 26, 2016, 02:12:15 AM »
Ian, I'm having trouble on splitting too.

I think that if the this initial setting is not perfect, it messes up with splitting setting too. And there reall is no aditional adjustment for depth or antything beyond initial depth/angle setting.

Therefore, initial setting is very important and it has to right despite of distractions of helix and other factors.

Pekka

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #59 on: December 26, 2016, 02:38:14 PM »
Pekka

having looked at the set up I am sure you're right. The only adjustment you have is length of splitting by retracting or extending the adjuster that determines the amount of drill ( length extended ). I will try some scrap drills when next using the DD and see what a difference retarding or advancing the holder on the drill either side of the 118 mark when setting up has on point splitting.

Hey its all good fun (?)

Have a happy New Year

Ian

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Drill Doctor
« Reply #60 on: December 28, 2016, 03:41:26 PM »
Thanks Ian

I tested today three drills, all same diameter one with slower helix and two with faster helix. Experiment conforms that helix angle has an effect on initial setup and shows dramatically on splitting the point.

I'm fighting the flu big time, I did not check yet what diameter they drill. I think that sharpening has failed if diameter is 0,1 mm larger than the drill at lips.

Pekka