Author Topic: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?  (Read 3319 times)

Offline PekkaNF

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How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« on: November 20, 2016, 04:40:54 AM »
Silly guestin, but needs to be asked.

Normally I just use a dab of clean straqight gear oil and paper/rug...but I gues not everybody does: I boug an very nice small two sided  cast iron lapping /surface plate. Left it on the trunck onf the car few hours and then took it inside. Next morning it has a sheen of rust on it. Took some oil and paper and cleaned, but then startted to think that I will use it irregularry and this one will be inside on one spare bedroom (my hobby room). Clear oil sent is not the chrismass sent that wife likes most.

So: How do you guys protect cast iron surface plates and measurement tools and still keep your hide inside of the premises?

I had a look on WD40 and it looks like it would leave waxy surface, that is great on hand tools, but not necessary on measuremet tools.

I had a look on camellia oil that I use for japanese wood working tools, but vegatable oils leave very hard surface when they oxidise.

Is there odor free anti aromatic and not the harmfull oil that can be cleaned easily without petrol and other antibedroom substances?

Actulally this surface plate is not anymore of the problem, but I'm going to lug tad under 100 kg of same sort of stuff little by little on that "clean hobbyroom" I have acclaimed and I don't wish to have to raise the "greasy iron" syndrome.

Thanks,
Pekka

Online smiffy

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #1 on: November 20, 2016, 05:31:27 AM »
 I use this and find it good at rust prevention much better than wd40 Mike
http://www.workshopsupplies.co.uk/contents/en-uk/d274_sas_attack_universal_maintenance_spray.html

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #2 on: November 20, 2016, 12:57:57 PM »
Not too happy with all those solvents.

I'm thinkking of more like lanolin or mineral oil, something "oil" that can be easily wiped on and then wiped out.

Pekka

Offline DavidA

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #3 on: November 20, 2016, 01:33:38 PM »
Pekka,

I think 'Finnigan's Wax Oil' used in the car trade is mostly lanolin.  It certainly works well as a rust preventer.

Dave.

Offline chipenter

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #4 on: November 20, 2016, 02:44:29 PM »
Gear oil stinks thin machine oil dosn't I put a oily cloth on top and a wooden cover , or wax furniture polish works as well .
Jeff

Offline Will_D

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #5 on: November 20, 2016, 02:57:57 PM »
Depending on your age what about Vaseline?

Btw: KY Jelly is water based so that's a no-no
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Offline Spurry

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #6 on: November 20, 2016, 05:36:44 PM »
In my experience, WD40 stains the metal it is supposed to protect. I found some 'new' stuff ACF50 (http://www.acf-50.co.uk/acf-50.htm) which seems to be quite good. Time will tell, though.
Pete

Offline howsitwork?

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2016, 03:16:51 PM »
Pekka

Lanolin is OK but very sticky and will go rancid ( not a good thing when SWMBO is checking for the source of the smell!)

Why not use baby oil? This is just liquid paraffin with a bit of fragrance in it. It will coat, doesn't oxidise quickly, and remains slippy. You might get a few strange looks when you buy it depending upon what you say it's for.... :lol:

You could even use it to lubricate the lapping plate at a push ( no pun intended)

Ian

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #8 on: November 22, 2016, 03:51:58 AM »
OK. lanolin is out then. Sales pitch was great.

I'll get liquid paraffin, baby oil or clean. That is pretty odourless and does dry hands and contaminate everything.

Those wonder chemicals could be fine for other ocassions, but hard to order airmail or any other ways.

Pekka

Offline Ed ke6bnl

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #9 on: November 22, 2016, 08:24:33 AM »
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2016, 09:04:53 AM »
That is what I was talking about....
"This item does not ship to , Finland. Please check other sellers who may ship internationally. "

Pekka

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #11 on: November 22, 2016, 09:35:33 AM »
For things like surface plates, drill chucks, lathe chucks and moderate sized items I mix 10% oil in Panel wipe cleaner (Basically a liquid in which oil dissolves) the solvent evaporates leaving a very thin layer of oil.
The items can be left, or placed in resealable plastic bags or as I do use an electric bag sealer.

Phil

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #12 on: November 22, 2016, 12:29:08 PM »
For things like surface plates, drill chucks, lathe chucks and moderate sized items I mix 10% oil in Panel wipe cleaner (Basically a liquid in which oil dissolves) the solvent evaporates leaving a very thin layer of oil.
The items can be left, or placed in resealable plastic bags or as I do use an electric bag sealer.

Phil

That is an idea....so something like this?
http://gtechniq.com/products/auto/perfect/exterior/paint/panel-wipe
+ 10% of volume of mineral oil (liquid paraffin or such) and we are good to go?

On winter time there are plenty of nearly pure denaturated ethanol or IPA at discount prices, used as winshield washer liquid (-40C proof), could try that one out as a solvent. Nicer than stronger aromatic solvents.

I got a 0,5 l prettu pure liquid paraffin and a small bottle of baby oil, just got home and they are untested.

Now that you mentioned surface plate and I have cast iron one sorted - how about granite surface plate? I have used kitchen detergent (grease remover) this far. Recommendations? I have heard that alcohol/solvent ones cause cooling and therefor are not ideal...then again I don't have temperature controlled measurement lab and I can wait.

Pekka

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #13 on: November 22, 2016, 12:58:41 PM »
Panel wipe is a rapid evaporating degreaser used to clean repaired automotive panels ready to repaint is is about 25 dearer that petrol in the uk as you say there are several solvers available. The idea came from my apprenticeship in the 70s we used to clean the Myford down this way each Friday the solvent used was paraffin.

Phil

Offline nrml

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #14 on: November 22, 2016, 04:09:06 PM »
For all non delicate tools / machines I use this http://www.bilthamber.com/corrosion-protection-and-rust-treatments/dynax-uc

For more delicate items where I am likely to want to wipe it clean before using : http://www.acf-50.co.uk/motorcycle/streetbike.htm

I initially bought the ACF50 for use on my motor bike, but I now use it for almost everything I used WD40 for before. It is a bit more expensive but a little goes a long way and it doesn't need reapplication often. I am not too worried about the solvents in ACF50. It doesn't seem to harm the plastics, composites and alloys on my motorcycle and it was developed for use in the aerospace industry where damage to materials would be an absolute non no. I use WD40 is now mainly as a cutting fluid for aluminium these days.

Offline Biggles

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #15 on: November 22, 2016, 10:37:59 PM »
I found Anchor Wax dose the job. When dry it leaves a thin clear film of wax which protects the metal. I think it is also used on boats to protect metal parts. http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/ankor-wax-preservative-fluid.html  :coffee:

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #16 on: November 23, 2016, 07:43:37 AM »
Thank you

Bilt Haber seems te popular here too, some shops sell it. I might even buy one.

ACF50 is mildly interesting...probably resides in same ecological niche than WD40 (slightly scented, slightly usefull, much hyped). Haven't seen it in the selves here and it does not seem to be readily shipped to another country.

Anyway I tried liquid parafin and unsented baby oil. Both seem to work well. Only snag was that when I used paper towel to clean/oil surface of the chekered lapping plate, sharp grooves shred the paper and I need a nylon brush to clean that out. Also looked like some of the blue has found it way into this lapping side, but I don't think it really matters, probably will be repeated again soon.

Might try home cooked mix of alcohol (or IPA) and oil on misting bottle.

Pekka

Offline Cymro

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #17 on: November 23, 2016, 09:48:37 AM »
For larger items (lathe beds, shaper tables etc) I use a mixture of lard, camphor and fine graphite powder. For smaller items (dividers, micrometers etc) I use yellow Vaseline rubbed on and rubbed off - just enough to leave a film.

I found the lard mixture recipe in a Victorian book on workshop practice - the camphor prevents the lard from turning rancid and also acts as an anti-rusting agent. The old machinists' chests used to have a little enclosure built in to keep camphor in as it's a known rust preventative.

And they all work . . .

If you ain't the lead dog, the scenery never changes . . .

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #18 on: November 23, 2016, 12:01:09 PM »
Whilst looking for something else I came across a tin of a product which was recommended to me for use on woodworking machinery, I have yet to use it but could be useful.

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=1&sqi=2&ved=0ahUKEwjNycmArb_QAhUMOsAKHWiuAt4QFggvMAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.axminster.co.uk%2Fliberon-lubricating-wax-ax22593&usg=AFQjCNH2qGTlLedCNShOjLvbWViSgveiZQ&bvm=bv.139782543,d.ZGg
Phil

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #19 on: November 23, 2016, 01:41:54 PM »
I've been watching this "thread" for a while.  My two cents worth -- (1) tools such as squares, scales, and the like get "clothed down" with carnuba wax with great regularity (call it once a month);  (2) tools such as dial indicators, micrometers, and the like get (A) stored in tightly closing wooden boxes with (B) a "cloth stoppered" vial of a (1/3rd each) mixture of oil of wintergreen (penetrent/dispersent), light mineral oil, and acetone; (3) tools such as files, scrapers, and gravers get cleaned and dried before being stored in (powdered) railroad chalk;  (4) all my "metal table surface" get will cleaned with solvent, light machine oil, and (again) with solvent and polished with carnuba wax (call it monthly).

I live in western Washington State (which used to be called "The Soviet of Washington") where "rust" is considered a camouflage color.

Offline awemawson

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #20 on: November 23, 2016, 02:01:04 PM »
We are in a low lying shallow valley - in fact a flood plain. Regularly when I get up in the morning at certain times of the year, there is a thick layer of mist hovering above the ground so dense you can't see the sheep.

And yet my machines and measuring equipment in the main workshop  don't rust. Why ?


















... I heat the workshop - daytime 18 deg C and 8 deg C over night. Works for me  :ddb:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #21 on: November 23, 2016, 02:33:46 PM »
Now this is getting interesting after people tell what they use and why.

I enjoyed answers.

My primary motivation here is that Swimbo let me have one bedroom for measurement and other clean stuff.

Garage is somewhat warm too.

Problem is that outdoor is not heated and here it is half half a time very humid and cold or freezing. When I lug stuff between garage and house stuff tends to cool and moisture condensates. Small parts can be put on zip bags and/or sealed plastic box. This does not really work on big stuff.

Pekka

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #22 on: November 23, 2016, 04:00:33 PM »
Pekka -- My "trick" with steel parts when they either need to be stored or shipped is to (A) wax them, (B) give them a light coat of WD-40 (where the "WD" stands for "Water Displacing"), and (C) wrap them in "cling wrap" (food wrap -- common here in the U.S. under the "Saran" brand name) and then wrap that in either newspapers or rags (depending on the ultimate "task").

Offline ieezitin

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #23 on: November 23, 2016, 06:28:38 PM »
camphor is in Vicks vapor rub so is Vaseline i believe.. interesting,,,, 
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Ed ke6bnl

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #24 on: November 23, 2016, 06:35:25 PM »
here is one that has proven itself for the last year, although I live in a very dry environment of So. california, long story short, I used HCl in the garage and a few days later my entire buggy tube frame went from shiny steel to a  surface rust frame.  I sanded it down and used some evaporusts rust-block and to my amazement there is no rust for over a year.
https://www.amazon.com/Evapo-Rust-RB015-Rust-Inhibitor-oz/dp/B0037ZAJ88
I have nothing to do with the company, I just was trying all forms of rust removal from electroylisis to vinager then tried some evaporust on some garage sale milling bits find and I put them in an old crock pot from my wife. heated it with the parts covered with evaporust and in less then a half hour they were derusted, they were not terrible just surface rust. This seems to be working better then the fluid film I am also using. I am sold on this product.
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Offline ieezitin

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #25 on: November 23, 2016, 06:49:40 PM »
I found Anchor Wax dose the job. When dry it leaves a thin clear film of wax which protects the metal. I think it is also used on boats to protect metal parts. http://www.morrislubricants.co.uk/ankor-wax-preservative-fluid.html  :coffee:

its sounds like the dogs nut's.. i done the research on the Googles.... can't find a supplier on this side of the hemisphere i wonder if they call it something else..

Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #26 on: November 24, 2016, 03:55:01 PM »
Thank you Lew,

What is the story with this Oil of Wintergreen? I can find it here mainly for aromatherapy - something like 20Ä per 15 ml......I'll get the oil and solvent to disperse it evenly, but what is the voodoo in this Oil of Wintergreen?

And thank you all too, I ordered ACF50, even if I have not clear use for it - yet.

Pekka


Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #27 on: November 24, 2016, 05:35:59 PM »
Hi Pekka,

Oil of Wintergreen makes things suspended in it penetrate.  That sets-up the dispersal of the oil to reach into nooks and crannies which is generally a good thing in this instance.  Mixed 50/50 with 10 weight oil, it beats the **** out of Kroil.  In a tightly closed (as opposed to sealed) wooden box, it works wonders.  One of the chemical supply houses in my local area stocks it for companies that work with pyrotechnics, so I can pick it up for (about) USD 30/pint.  A little bit goes a long way.

Offline Biggles

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2016, 03:44:08 PM »
Most of the above mentioned work within reason, Camphor is an old method and does work, but requires that the item is sealed for the protection to last a while, otherwise it will evaporate fast. If you are into making your own products I would suggest Carnauba wax thinned with some alcohol or with the addition of Bees wax, Tung oil and some other thinning agent such as natural turpentine which will evaporate and leave a thin layer of the wax. Itís interesting to note that the Japanese Samurai used Tung oil to preserve their blades. Carnauba is a natural wax from leaves of a palm as are the other items. Carnauba wax is used in most car polishing compounds and antirust products such as Bilt Haber. It will need to be heated in an old saucepan with the thinning agent and some of the oils/wax mentioned previously to make it into a paste or liquid if required regulated by proportion of wax to thinner/oil.  Best done outside with a small camp stove; CARE should be exercised using direct heat with a flammable liquid; of course you can use a water bath but it will take longer.  Also keep a wet towel nearby to smother the pan if it catches alight.  For me personally I still prefer Ankor wax even if itís only available from Morris in the UK.

Gone are my days of cooking! :nrocks:

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #29 on: November 26, 2016, 01:35:11 PM »
Thank you again.

Some of the stuff I'd rather buy than make, but sometimes the fun is in the chase. I'll try some concotion that has been suggested here, maybe I'll learn something even if I revert back to traditiola stuff.

Pekka

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #30 on: November 30, 2016, 07:31:35 AM »
I have bought, begged, ordered some of the aforementioned raw materials.

Let's see what comes up.

1) For this Lew-Oil, in which order and method stuff should be mixed? All together?

2) I tried to mix liquid parafin and IPA, looks like there has to be lot of IPA and a little of parafin. Very mild scent, very little residue and cleans well. Will need a little balancing.

Any other tried recepies?

Some of the stuff is a little suspect and hard to find. I'm baffled of the camphor. Is't it sort of resin? Anyway, I found camphor oil, I suspect it is only usefull for scent, but got it included on the same P&P than oil of wintergreen, maybe I find some use for it.

Pekka

Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #31 on: November 30, 2016, 11:09:17 AM »
1) For this Lew-Oil, in which order and method stuff should be mixed? All together?

My approach is to use syringes to extract (reasonably) exact amount of the liquids (oil of wintergreen and 10 weight machine oil) and squirt them in to a ground glass seal bottle (approximately 1 cup or) 375 cc.  I then extract (about 3 cc) of the fluid and squirt that into my cotton stoppered prescription bottle.  That is then "set" into a (usually corner) space that holds it when the tightly fitting case is closed.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #32 on: November 30, 2016, 03:15:40 PM »
Thank you much.

I have had a lopt of work and other activity to keep me bussy, I have been collecting some household chemicals. Few more coming up and then I can start to experiment a little.

I tried a little of my almost favorite cleaning agens: Liquid parafin (baby oil) and IPA. They don't mix at 50% concentration, sort of emulsion is formed, but that seems to clean and lubricate easily.

When I'll get the oil of wintergreen, I'll try Lew's recepie.

Pekka

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #33 on: November 30, 2016, 04:40:38 PM »
We are in a low lying shallow valley - in fact a flood plain. Regularly when I get up in the morning at certain times of the year, there is a thick layer of mist hovering above the ground so dense you can't see the sheep.

And yet my machines and measuring equipment in the main workshop  don't rust. Why ?

One could argue your temperatures are back to front (for tools) not personel as the ambient temperature drops (at night) the water condenses from the air onto colder surfaces.
In the day (typically warmer) the moisture is absorbed into the air.
Having said all the above the thermal masses will be out of step with the surrounding temperatures.
What does anyone think?

 
















... I heat the workshop - daytime 18 deg C and 8 deg C over night. Works for me  :ddb:

Offline Biggles

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #34 on: December 03, 2016, 06:13:35 AM »
Use gloves with the above, especially with wintergreen as it contains methyl salicylate, which contains basically aspirin. This can be absorbed through the skin. 5 ml of methyl salicylate contains approximately 6 g of salicylate which is equivalent to almost twenty 300 mg tablets of aspirin. Although the amount you will be using is negligible, if you have a blood disorder or ulcers it is possible that it will irritate you or worse.
Camphor is used in moth balls for clothes in wardrobes. It deters moths form laying their larvae and making holes in your cloths.
You could just use the mothballs!  :coffee:

Offline krv3000

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #35 on: December 03, 2016, 01:03:31 PM »
no just by all the things gowing to use in plastic

Offline Biggles

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #36 on: December 05, 2016, 12:08:56 AM »
i'll be interested on what you come up with. Just in case someone doubts the use/effects of wintergreen oil, the item below is the leaflet given to NHS patients using warfarin. (ref; page 2, methyl salicylate on the skin)!

https://www.google.co.uk/url?sa=t&rct=j&q=&esrc=s&source=web&cd=2&ved=0ahUKEwji_o3woNzQAhUFKsAKHSmGAp0QFggnMAE&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nhs.uk%2Fipgmedia%2Fnational%2Fatrial%2520fibrillation%2520association%2Fassets%2Fwarfarinanddiet-patientinformation.pdf&usg=AFQjCNHdWP9rW9tDQqlJTsHrFNvC7MREVQ&cad=rja
 :bugeye:

Offline krv3000

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #37 on: December 05, 2016, 03:25:08 PM »
well I have posed this before as I work in the making of car body components we use the industrial equivalent of wd40 and for over see shipping wax oil I get a lot of rust preventative paper that new tooling comes rapt in and all of me drors haze a peace in the bottom the other thing I get plenty of is them little packets of silicer  crystals so all me bits and bob's that's in boxes has them in 

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #38 on: December 05, 2016, 03:31:08 PM »
Thank you for the warning. I did bump into it when I was trying to get the facts right in my head and the synthetic form of the oil of wintergreen caught my eye. Essentially same thing on toxicology.

Many of the natural products are one way or another poisonous. I usually avoid skin contact, but after reading some of the facts I am pretty content that in my application (pun not intended) risk of harmfull dose trough skin contact is pretty remote.

I'm not saying that oil of wintergreen is totaly harmless:
https://www.newscientist.com/article/dn12040-muscle-rub-blamed-for-athletes-death/
https://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+1935

But in this context, with some basic sense and precautions should be pretty safe as an "classic" rust prrevention oiling for precision instrumets.

Anyway I got two rolls of VCI paper, Japanese Camelia oil and Ballistol
https://www.dictum.com/en/sharpening/sharpening-accessories/rust-removers-rust-protection

I ordered these, because I was ordering some carnauba wax and shellac as well. Awaiting my aromatherary oils :lol:

Pekka



Offline Biggles

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #39 on: December 08, 2016, 12:02:07 AM »
Yes it is a remote risk but as you say, itís better to use gloves. I have used Ballistol on firearms, its pretty good. If itís a little old it smells rancid, (I believe it has almond oil in it). I have also used Camelia oil whilst making a wax polish for wood. This is also an old Japanese method of keeping metal. It forms a layer over the metal and dries. This can take a long time depending on how much thinner you use.  :coffee:

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #40 on: December 24, 2016, 03:36:16 PM »
I have got camphor oil and oil of wintergreen. About of 100 ml of each. Good amout for testin and use.

I tried the Lew oil recipe and it seems to work. Also it got seal of approval from domestic authorities. Mu daugter described the smell of it "fresh".

It makes an odd looking suspension, but it is nice to work with. Solvent aids cleaning and thins it. Oil should prevent tools from rusting and winter green gives a nice scent.

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #41 on: December 24, 2016, 05:20:39 PM »
I have several LARGE rolls of rust preventing paper. Anyone is welcome to as much as they want for the postage
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline russ57

  • Jr. Member
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  • Posts: 48
Re: How to prevent rust in measurement equipment?
« Reply #42 on: December 25, 2016, 09:42:54 PM »
Pm Andrew

-russ