Author Topic: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!  (Read 2160 times)

Online mattinker

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Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« on: January 13, 2017, 03:54:11 PM »
Between Christmas and the new year, my son, my two grandsons and I made a visit to Andrew Mawson, this was the third annual visit for my son and I. It's fun to visit other madmodders, put a face to a name and see some of the things that have been the subject of forum threads! All three generations enjoyed themselves and I was followed home by the thirty five year old Warco mechanical hacksaw Andrew had offered it to me last year, but I was on my motorbike, so getting it back across the channel would have been a little tricky!. The aforementioned saw had spent the last seven years outside. I finally was able to get it out of the van and into my workshop. The light failed me so I wasn't able to get many photos. Nothing was seized, and the drive belt wasn't even cracked, amazing! It looks as though the original threads on this thirty five year old Taiwanese knock off are Unified, Andrew said that he had bought it from a blacksmith when it was about ten years old, so that might have been when it picked up the Whitworth replacements for the UNC bolts!  I'm not going to restore it, just make it work. I found a switch for $6 from Hongkong and ten replacement blades on eBay for 25, so far, I can't see anything else apart from the plug and the oil to replace!

I see that the pics are too big, I'll get it right on the next ones!

Offline krv3000

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #1 on: January 13, 2017, 04:11:57 PM »
brill

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #2 on: January 13, 2017, 04:21:21 PM »
Glad that you got it safely home Matthew  :thumbup:

I will be extremely pleased to see it back in commission - that saw did masses of work for me back in my last workshop and was only not put in service as I'd just got my Pedrazoli before I moved.

Keep us posted on progress
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline charadam

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #3 on: January 13, 2017, 05:03:40 PM »
Andrew,

Do you have similar door prizes for every visitor?

I can turn up one weekend in three!

Happy New Year,

Charles

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #4 on: January 13, 2017, 05:16:24 PM »
Over many years of playing in the workshop, and EBay membership since 2001 I've accumulated rather a lot of 'stuff' ranging from useful bits as material, to things that will be future projects.

I can't take it with me when I pop my clogs  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #5 on: January 16, 2017, 02:52:48 PM »
Hi,
A short video on the Warco Mechanical hacksaw. I took the covers of and oiled it.

Regards, Matthew


https://youtu.be/3fPOEcqZwAs

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #6 on: January 16, 2017, 03:15:12 PM »
Matthew, I have a very dim recollection that there was an adjuster on the dash pot system that worked by screwing a pointed bar against an orifice to regulate the rate of oil flow for descent. That thing does two things - it raises the blade off the work on the return stroke and controls the rate of descent on the forward cutting stroke. It's the rate of descent that was adjustable but I'm puzzled that I see no sign of the tweaker  :scratch:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #7 on: January 16, 2017, 04:50:30 PM »
Andrew,
I wondered about that, there is a screw opposite the "exhaust" port on the small dash pot, but it doesn't go very far. It's a really clever mechanism that works just with the pistons and oil ports, really neat! From what I remembered of the one we had in school over fifty years ago, seeing the system made my memories of it lifting on the return stroke come back. I know I'm going to enjoy having the Warco, it's got the same sort of attraction when running as a shaper!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #8 on: January 16, 2017, 05:12:24 PM »
Warco only badge engineered it - it was a generic Taiwanese import.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2017, 02:26:10 PM »
Some more on the Warco! I hope it's of interest! I have gone from 9 subscribers to 12 which is a 33% jump!

Regards, Matthew

https://youtu.be/1oRVHcUoD9Q

Offline RobWilson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2017, 03:40:39 PM »
Looking good Matthew  :thumbup:


              Looks like a very capable saw  :dremel:


Rob

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2017, 04:14:34 PM »
Thanks KRV and Rob,

Andrew, a badged Taiwanese saw that is really well put together!

Thanks again! Matthew

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2017, 09:54:05 PM »
More in the WARCO saga, I hope it's not too long a video and won't drive you all to boredom! I've not made very many videos so I'm having somewhat of an uphill battle!

How do I embed this as a youtube video?


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1BDdqC4f10" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d1BDdqC4f10</a>
« Last Edit: February 09, 2017, 06:15:51 AM by mattinker »

Offline AdeV

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #13 on: February 09, 2017, 02:11:53 AM »
Hi Matt,

When you're writing your post, have a look at the 2 rows of icons above the smileys - the first one on the left, on the second row (underneath the "B") is a Youtube link. Just press that to get:

Code: [Select]
[you tube][/you tube](note: I've added spaces so it shows up properly in this post...)

Now all you need to do is paste your video's unique code between the two tags, and you're golden! The code appears in the URL (address bar in your browser), just click on it and it should show up in full. Or, once the video has finished playing, copy the code out of the "share" box (see attached picture).

e.g. if your Youtube URL looks like this:
Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4
Take everything after the "v=", i.e. zy5rkw4SeP4, and paste it between the two tags:

Code: [Select]
[youtube]zy5rkw4SeP4[/youtube]
And you end up with this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4</a>

HTH!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #14 on: February 09, 2017, 03:44:55 AM »
I say Matthew you are getting right into the heart of that donkey saw  :bow:

I always assumed that there was a spring loaded ball bearing down in there as the one way valve, with the adjuster pressing on it, but in all the years I owned it I never dismantled that bit!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #15 on: February 09, 2017, 06:06:15 AM »
I say Matthew you are getting right into the heart of that donkey saw  :bow:

I always assumed that there was a spring loaded ball bearing down in there as the one way valve, with the adjuster pressing on it, but in all the years I owned it I never dismantled that bit!
Andrew, the twist is in the next video!

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2017, 06:22:34 AM »
Thanks AdeV
I think this should be a sticky! Thank you for going to the trouble of explaining it so clearly! Those icons above all that animated stuff never read as being anything usable! I fail to see why that function is not part off attachments. It's obvious when you look at it, especially as I know how html code works!

Thanks again, all the best Matthew

Hi Matt,

When you're writing your post, have a look at the 2 rows of icons above the smileys - the first one on the left, on the second row (underneath the "B") is a Youtube link. Just press that to get:

Code: [Select]
[you tube][/you tube](note: I've added spaces so it shows up properly in this post...)

Now all you need to do is paste your video's unique code between the two tags, and you're golden! The code appears in the URL (address bar in your browser), just click on it and it should show up in full. Or, once the video has finished playing, copy the code out of the "share" box (see attached picture).

e.g. if your Youtube URL looks like this:
Code: [Select]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4
Take everything after the "v=", i.e. zy5rkw4SeP4, and paste it between the two tags:

Code: [Select]
[youtube]zy5rkw4SeP4[/youtube]
And you end up with this:

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zy5rkw4SeP4</a>

HTH!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2017, 08:27:09 AM »

Andrew, the twist is in the next video!
[/quote]

I wait with bated breath Matthew  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline hermetic

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #18 on: February 09, 2017, 11:39:24 AM »
 I am waiting with the breath baited too, I admire your bottle on drilling through the plug, I would have tried to get it out, but I always was " A boy of nervous disposition"
Phil

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2017, 09:34:14 AM »
Here we are again, You can breath again Andrew!

Hermetic, I chose to drill the plug rather than trying to get it out because I could see that the drilling for the oil ways was pretty small so I thought that it would be worth the minimal risk and that I could always plug it!!

Here is the video of making an anti return valve for the hydraulic down feed system!

Regards, Matthew


<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOdcLAQAlo" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RGOdcLAQAlo</a>

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #20 on: February 10, 2017, 10:23:49 AM »
Good progress Matthew  :thumbup:

I'm sure that the down feed of the hacksaw was originally tweakable with some sort of variable throttle on the oil escaping from the big pot, and the little pot is pumped by a cam that raises the saw on the reverse stroke.



(Can I respectfully suggest a couple of things? a/ put loctite on your grub screw that retains the spring (or centre pop it) and b/ use a board under your work when sawing in the lathe to preserve the ways - I've seen too many ex-school lathes with saw nicks in them  :bugeye:)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Fredbare

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #21 on: February 10, 2017, 11:14:29 AM »
Well done Matthew

John

Offline Biggles

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #22 on: February 10, 2017, 12:09:01 PM »
Well done Matthew, but i want the mobility scooter.  :drool:  :lol:

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #23 on: February 10, 2017, 12:12:36 PM »
Good progress Matthew  :thumbup:

I'm sure that the down feed of the hacksaw was originally tweakable with some sort of variable throttle on the oil escaping from the big pot, and the little pot is pumped by a cam that raises the saw on the reverse stroke.



(Can I respectfully suggest a couple of things? a/ put loctite on your grub screw that retains the spring (or centre pop it) and b/ use a board under your work when sawing in the lathe to preserve the ways - I've seen too many ex-school lathes with saw nicks in them  :bugeye:)

Thanks Andrew,

Yes, your absolutely right about the plank on the ways, I usually do!! The grub screw can't escape, it's up against the bottom of the hole, it's there to stop the spring falling out when it's being installed! I've been all over the reservoir, there no threaded holes that I can see that could have contained an adjuster screw. The only port into the larger chamber is through the bottom, the small piston has a hole half way up it's stroke which vents oil to the reservoir, in doing so it allows oil to escape from the large cylinder, which allows a drop in the height of the blade! I'd love to find an adjuster screw! The adjustment seems to come from the screw that adjusts the stroke of the small piston following the cam. I am still cleaning and painting, it'll be clearer when it's back together!

All the best, Matthew.

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #24 on: February 10, 2017, 12:14:03 PM »

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #25 on: February 10, 2017, 12:15:58 PM »
Well done Matthew, but i want the mobility scooter.  :drool:  :lol:

Thanks Biggles, for the mobility scooter, you'll have to contact AdeV for that

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #26 on: February 10, 2017, 12:50:30 PM »
Matthew, I vaguely looked into this about 15 !years ago - I saw a very similar Taiwanese saw in a used tool dealer, and there was a knurled knob on the end of a shaft emerging from the hole in the top plate that you used as a jig for drilling

I suspect that there was a ball valve similar to yours, but with something pressing on the ball to give a controlled leak. If you think about it, if your ball valve is perfect, the blade will never descend ! The little cylinder just transfers enough oil into the bigger one to lift the blade off the cut on the return stroke, but re-admits in on the forward stroke controlled by the timing of the cam.

Happy experimenting
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #27 on: February 10, 2017, 12:58:39 PM »
Here you are Matthew, a picture is worth a 1000 words  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #28 on: February 10, 2017, 02:06:12 PM »
Matthew, I vaguely looked into this about 15 !years ago - I saw a very similar Taiwanese saw in a used tool dealer, and there was a knurled knob on the end of a shaft emerging from the hole in the top plate that you used as a jig for drilling

I suspect that there was a ball valve similar to yours, but with something pressing on the ball to give a controlled leak. If you think about it, if your ball valve is perfect, the blade will never descend ! The little cylinder just transfers enough oil into the bigger one to lift the blade off the cut on the return stroke, but re-admits in on the forward stroke controlled by the timing of the cam.

Happy experimenting

That is what I'd thought, but, there were no traces of anything in and around the hole, no threads, no signs of anything! The one thing that is certain, a ball valve is required to allow the oil in. The small piston rises and falls, pressurising the large chamber raising the blade. The cam then allows the blade to lower, by venting partially the large cylinder through the port in the small cylinder. that much is clear, the thing that is not clear for me, which may have to do with the nob is lowering the blade down to the working position!

The photo is not very clear! I just found this!

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyXDhgrW0Y" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPyXDhgrW0Y</a>

Regards, Matthew

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #29 on: February 10, 2017, 02:35:23 PM »
Andrew, I've also found a thread on an older structurally the same saw that appears on a thread here

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3483.msg37356#msg37356

I've sent him an email, so I hope that the person is using the same email adress now!

Regards, Matthew

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #30 on: February 10, 2017, 02:43:13 PM »
Interesting !

The adjusting knob shows up quite clearly on several of his pictures
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #31 on: February 10, 2017, 03:35:17 PM »
At a conceptual level you need a needle valve in parallel with your ball valve introducing a 'controlled leak' adjusted from a rod though the hole in the lid. How you implement it might be a bit more complicated.  :scratch:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #32 on: February 10, 2017, 04:16:52 PM »
Thanks Andrew, I can see a way of doing it, a needle that can apply pressure to the ball valve from the top. I need to experiment when I get it back together. There is one thing that I need to confirm before I do anything else, it's the flow of oil when the saw is on the cutting stroke. On the return stroke, the small piston goes down, sending oil to the big piston pushing up the arm. When the blade reaches the end of it's stroke, the cam allows the small piston to rise (under pressure from the weight of the arm pushing the piston down) uncovering the port on the side of the small cylinder (it's about half way up) which lets the oil out of the large cylinder allowing the arm to drop, the port is open throughout the cutting stroke. At least that's what I can see so far! The saw in the video doesn't have anything on the to of the cover. I've written to the poster in the Madmodder's thread on rebuilding the mechanical hack saw, it would be easier to have something concrete to work from!

Matthew

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #33 on: February 10, 2017, 04:54:56 PM »
The one in the video doesn't have the hole in the lid like yours - obviously an inferior model to your top of the range one  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline 2nd Opinion

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #34 on: February 11, 2017, 05:42:00 PM »
That's a great find.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Offline krv3000

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #35 on: February 11, 2017, 05:47:55 PM »
brill nice to see the compact 8 in youse

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #36 on: February 11, 2017, 06:00:41 PM »
2nd opinion, well, it was a really great gift from Andrew Mawson, I'm pleased to have it, looking forward to it running!

Krv, The compact 8 is really useful, it's in really good shape, it was missing the motor when I got it, it came out of a school, apparently the kids had deliberately locked the motor an left it running and burnt it out. It still had the "cosmolene" on the bed ways! It's a real complement to my other big lathes!

All the best, Matthew.

Offline krv3000

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #37 on: February 11, 2017, 06:11:14 PM »
well its a sham you is not in the uk as I have a motor

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #38 on: February 11, 2017, 08:43:04 PM »
Thanks Krv,

Thanks for the offer, I have a three phase motor (from a V10 Emco I think) that cost me 70 shipping from Australia! It's a three phase, two speed that I mounted with a three to one reduction on a lay shaft with a toothed timing belt. I Also put a 1 to 1 gearing option, which I've never used as I've never needed it! It'll run  as slow as 33 RPM which I find great for threading up to a shoulder!

Thanks again, Matthew

Offline krv3000

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #39 on: February 12, 2017, 12:09:31 PM »
brill that's the one thing I don't like is its slowest speed is not slow inuf for thread cutting on the standard lath 

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #40 on: February 12, 2017, 06:30:00 PM »
 :thumbup: :thumbup:

Online mattinker

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #41 on: March 29, 2017, 04:14:19 PM »
I've been a little distracted recently, too much going on! In this video, I fix a problem with the non-return vale sticking!

Something wierd happening with the sound, looks out of sync and slow!!

All the best, Matthew

<a href="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmHhBcPrr0" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eUmHhBcPrr0</a>

Offline awemawson

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #42 on: March 29, 2017, 05:24:12 PM »
Good progress Matthew  :thumbup:

In the good old days, motor cycle oil pressure relief valves were just a ball bearing pressed by a spring against a cast iron bored hole. The received wisdom (written into maintenance handbooks) was to put a bronze drift against the ball, and give it a firm clout with a hammer, thus deforming the seat to the sphericallity of the ball. Those of us without bronze drifts used a steel rod, then replaced the ball bearing with another identical one, and it seemed to work splendidly. (no lapping allowed as the oil galleries would become contaminated)

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

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Re: Titivating a Warco Mechanical hacksaw!
« Reply #43 on: March 29, 2017, 05:33:34 PM »
Well, I wasn't sure whether it was the seat or the walls of the valve hanging things up, this way I was able to cove both!

More adventures to come!

regards, Matthew