Author Topic: Coolant pump alternative?  (Read 505 times)

Offline super7

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Coolant pump alternative?
« on: June 06, 2017, 04:04:16 PM »
Has anyone had any luck with alternatives to your regular vertical type coolant pumps? My machine came with a 440v pump, but I can't use it.

Cheers  :thumbup:

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #1 on: June 06, 2017, 04:07:55 PM »
I use a seperate pump system for my mill and lathe....
Why cant you use the 3 ph pump?
Adding a capacitor to the pump and a bit of wiring ought to get it running....
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Offline super7

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #2 on: June 06, 2017, 04:20:19 PM »
Is this the ghost phase trick? I'd be interested to know how it's done, although I'm sure I have read it's a bit of a cladge up.

The lathe came to me as a 400v 3ph machine. I can deal with the spindle motor by wiring it in delta and using a single phase to 3 phase 230 inverter, but the coolant motor had left me stumped.

This is the pump motor plate, its 3 terminal, so assume I'm stuck with 440v?



Offline awemawson

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #3 on: June 06, 2017, 04:51:47 PM »
Find a small 240 to 415 volt transformer and then generate the third phase with a capacitor. You really only need an auto transformer, so anything that has a 240 and a 415 volt primary tapping would work. Or even a 240 volt isolating transformer with primary and secondary wired in additive series.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #4 on: June 06, 2017, 05:01:59 PM »
Yes, the cap trick is a bit of a fudge but does work....plenty of info on the net....easier  than getting hold of a transformer....
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Offline awemawson

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2017, 05:05:41 PM »
Still need the transformer if it is wired Star and the star point isn't accessible as the O/P stated by implication.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Mike E.

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2017, 05:23:49 PM »
Has anyone tried using an aquarium tank pump for coolant ?
Mike

California & Wales  - Home, & Home Away

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2017, 05:31:30 PM »
Still need the transformer if it is wired Star and the star point isn't accessible as the O/P stated by implication.
Hmm right again....a gold 'star'awarded to you....

Too many wires again.....
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Offline super7

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2017, 05:37:08 PM »
Top left U2/W1
Top right Z2
Bottom left Z1/V1
Bottom right U1

I'm not familiar with UVZ, must be chinesium.

Terminal box as connected, before disconnecting prior to removal from where I bought it:




Motor terminal box :




Lifted the terminal box, the star point must be buried in the windings:



I'm a sparkie by trade, but that terminology and the way it looks when sketched out as windings makes no sense to me.

Offline John Rudd

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2017, 05:59:07 PM »
U,V,W are the norms for 3 ph wiring...

Imagine a triangle, the corners being marked as U,V and W.
One winding would be U1-U2, second would be V1-V2, etc...
So for Delta, the connections would be U1 to W2, U2 to V1, V2 to W1...
Star connected, the 2's would be connected and phases applied to the 1's
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2017, 06:06:07 PM »
Has anyone tried using an aquarium tank pump for coolant ?
I am using a aquarium pump for my benchtop mill there is not enough pressure to pump from ground level, my tank is raised about 1.5 ' off the floor but the return droops down to a filter to catch metal bits but it does work next time I will try a parts washer pump or try to make one.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2017, 06:27:13 PM »
I use a diesel transfer pump for coolant on my horizontal bandsaw. Only a cheap 12v dc Ebay one for about 12 powered by a wall wart. Works splendidly  :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mattinker

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2017, 07:46:48 PM »
I used a small 220volt submerged fountain pump on my horizontal band-saw, I can't remember how much it cost, it's run fairly consistently for the last thirteen years. i have a bigger fountain pump (i bought it a few years ago to put on my Colchester lathe, again, I can't remember the price!) that will get mounted on the Edgwick in the not too far distant future!

 Regards, Matthew

Offline PK

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #13 on: June 07, 2017, 12:00:54 AM »
Bilge pumps work well, as do caravan inline, potable water pumps. Both require 12VDC, which is good and bad...

Offline chipenter

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #14 on: June 07, 2017, 01:12:32 AM »
I am using a pond 6 volt fountain pump with 1.2metres of head , quiet and cheap .
Jeff

Offline Pete.

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #15 on: June 07, 2017, 01:29:28 AM »
415v motors run just fine on 240v if they are lightly loaded (which a suds pump is).

I pulled one from an automatic barrier closer that was 415v wired with two separate capacitors for up and down and running off 240v single phase which has years of use on it. The barrier was nearly perfectly balanced so th emotor just turned a screw to operate it up and down.

Stick a capacitor on it and try it. It's not a kludge - it's exactly how rotary phase converters work.

3 phase suds pump on single phase with capacitor


Offline AdeV

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #16 on: June 10, 2017, 04:01:51 AM »
Quote
it's exactly how rotary phase converters work.

:scratch: Don't you mean a static phase converter?

I thought a rotary phase converter was a 240v motor close-coupled with a 415v 3ph alternator.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2017, 04:47:11 AM »
In it's most basic form Pete is right. In practical circuits three phase rotary converters (idler motor) have some additional capcitors and circuit, something like this:
http://www.waterfront-woods.com/graphics/rotaryconverter.gif

Pekka

Offline graham

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Re: Coolant pump alternative?
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2017, 02:09:28 PM »
I use a 240 volt central heating pump on my Harrison L6 been on 10 years, works a treat.  :clap: