Author Topic: Taking photos in the workshop  (Read 24983 times)

Offline spuddevans

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Taking photos in the workshop
« on: May 18, 2009, 03:50:04 PM »
I dont know if this is in the right place, if not please could someone move it.

This is in response to some requests in my Elmers#25 thread to share some info and tips on how I take photos in the workshop. I must emphasise that this is only my uneducated rambling, please correct or question anything below.


Anyway, disclaimer over with, on with the boring lecture.

Please bare with me as I am not professionally trained in any of all this so this probably will not come out as clear as it could be.  :coffee:

I think the most important thing in photography is the light, if you havent got good light then no matter what camera you've got your pic will still be a pic of bad light. So what is "good" or "bad" light? The answer is ... it depends on what you are trying to achieve. If you are trying to create a moody atmosphere then you may want to create some strong shadows and keep the overall tone of the image on the darker side. If however you are wanting to photograph parts on the lathe or mill or individual parts you probably want to have an image without any strong shadows.

Why not completely shadowless? Well, it can be pretty hard to achieve as you need to get equal levels of light coming at the model from all angles including from below it. So "nearly shadowless" is an easier target to reach without buying any additional gear.

So how to achieve it?   :scratch:

As we all know, light likes to travel in straight lines from its source, and then anything put in the light's path will cast a shadow on the same axis onto any surface behind it. So the way to reduce the shadows is to get the light away from the level of the camera and get it up above the model. Then the direct light from above can only cast a shadow below the model, and if the light is above the subject (ideally the light should be higher than the distance to the nearest wall) the light can also bounce off the walls to reduce the shadows below. Then if you stand the model on something light coloured, like a sheet of white paper the light will be reflected up to illuminate the underneath of the model.

So how I took my photos for my Elmers#25 build was this; I have a Dslr and a flash unit that can both swivel from side to side, but can also be pointed straight up or even behind the camera. So when taking the photos, no matter what angle I held the camera at, the flash was always aimed directly at the (grubby) white ceiling. The light would then bounce of the ceiling and back down onto the subject and would also bounce off the walls to fill in some of the shadows.

Of course you may not have such equipment, so what can you do?

One of the easiest things to do is to turn off the inbuilt flash on your camera and rely on your normal workshop lighting, and then mount your camera onto a tripod. You dont need a massive floorstanding tripod, you can get really small table-top tripods for just a few quid. The reason for using a tripod is to get rid of camera-shake. When you dont have the flash switched on the camera slows down its shutter speed to get more light in, but a slower shutter speed will really show up any camera-shake and will give blurry pics.

Then just set your camera's white balance to match whatever your workshop lighting is, ie flurescent or incandescent.

Most compact cameras will focus on the center area (some even can identify faces and focus on them, but unless your engines have faces on them that feature isn't much help ) so keep that area on the part you want to be the sharpest. Remember that the closer the camera is to the subject the smaller the depth-of-field is (the area of the picture that will be in focus). If your camera has a Macro mode that can help, but you face the problem of limited depth-of-field.

Remember that if you are wanting pics just for use on the forum you only need to have a pic 800pixels or so on the longest side, that's around 1mp. If your camera's reletively new it could be 6-15 times bigger than that. That will give you plenty of space that you could crop the photo down to size in an editing program. So dont feel you have to fill the whole frame with the subject, just crop down to suit.

If you have some photo editing software you can also do some extra tricks to bring out the best in your photos, but the details depends on what software you have. I have Photoshop Elements 5 ( the cheap version of Photoshop, but that has virtually all the tools I need), I got it from ebay for about £25. I use it to sharpen the finer details in the pics, and to adjust the exposure.


I hope I've covered it all, any questions please feel free to ask, I can't say that I'll be able to answer them though :lol:


Tim
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #1 on: May 18, 2009, 05:20:13 PM »
I've made up some e-C-o-C's (that's electronic-Crap-o-Cad's) to illustrate what I was rambling about regarding the difference between the effect of a built in flash and using workshop lighting. ( just in case you weren't bored enough by the epic tome above  :D )

These are overhead e-C-o-C's  :)






I know it says flurescent tubes but it could just as well be normal light bulbs, but I assumed most would use flurescents in their workshop due to the effeciency and cheapness of them.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline Bernd

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #2 on: May 18, 2009, 06:56:34 PM »
Tim,

I've also noticed that many are not aware of the background color in their photo's either. That also makes a big difference in taking a picture of a part. I usally try for a neutral color such as gray.

What is your opinion on background color.

By the way all my pics are taken with a Kodak M883 8megapixel camera and then enhanced by HP photo software.

Bernd

P.S. You are in the right place to post a "How To".
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Offline Darren

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #3 on: May 18, 2009, 07:00:17 PM »
Thanks Tim,

I will be reading that over a few times, I have "some" gear, just been lazy. Oh and didn't know how to use it  :ddb: :ddb:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline cedge

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #4 on: May 18, 2009, 09:11:36 PM »
Bernd
What?..... you don't like my bright yellow scrap boxes?..... :(

Steve  :lol:

Offline Bernd

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #5 on: May 18, 2009, 10:36:18 PM »
Have to admit you take darn good pics. At least they're bright enough and in focus to see the detail.

Yes, I like your yellow scrap boxes. :D Brightens things up a bit.

Bernd
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #6 on: May 18, 2009, 10:38:26 PM »
All good advice Tim but I must ask how one is supposed to find a clean site in the workshop suitable to taking pictures? :scratch:
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #7 on: May 19, 2009, 01:41:19 AM »
I've also noticed that many are not aware of the background color in their photo's either. That also makes a big difference in taking a picture of a part. I usally try for a neutral color such as gray.

What is your opinion on background color.

That's a good point Bernd. Background can be important as it can give context to the photo, so if the pic is of a part being made then having the lathe ways or the mill table as part of the background  can help. But the finished article will look better if the background is a neutral colour, and the darker the background is the more you will focus attention on the model.

An interesting experiment is to take a photo of a plain white sheet of paper, fill the frame with the sheet, most camera's when on "Auto" mode will actually give you a picture that will look a mid-grey. This is because the camera averages out all the shades in its frame and reckons that the average of most scenes will equal a mid-grey.

So when taking photos in the workshop, if your background is lighter than your subject then your camera may well take an under-exposed(darker) photo. But if your background is darker then the opposite is true, it will give you a brighter photo. Armed with this you can simply place a piece of mid to dark grey card behind whatever you want to capture to fool the camera into taking a brighter picture without getting your head around the manual controls (if you camera has them).

All good advice Tim but I must ask how one is supposed to find a clean site in the workshop suitable to taking pictures? :scratch:

Good point, the only clean workshop is one not in use  :lol:

Think about what you are photographing. If it is just a part of an engine, or even a work in progress on the lathe or mill, you dont need to have a clean site, in fact it may look strange without some swarf. However, unless you are building a full scale project, most of what we photograph is relatively small, so a clean site is not that hard to make( I have a couple of 2" paintbrushes that I use to sweep the ways clean, they work well as mini sweepers to clear a little site ), even putting a sheet of a4 paper down, or even better, use the plans as a base and a bit of grey card for the background for the picture. To keep the plans or background cleaner, find some poly-pockets that are matt in appearence, they will just wipe clean but not reflect any glare.


Just one other point about backgrounds, give your subject room to breath. If you are introducing a background in the form of a bit of grey card, dont put it right behind the subject, leave a bit of space otherwise the photo will look cramped.

One final thought for now (groan), when you see someones photo that you like and think is well taken, just ask yourself what about that photo makes it so attractive to you, is it the background, the lighting, the composition? Then just try to copy that. Practice is what will improve you photos, and dont just "take" the picture, "make" it work, just give some thought to what you want to capture.

Hope all that makes sense.


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #8 on: May 19, 2009, 03:05:24 AM »
Thanks for the post Tim very usfull

I've been using elcheepo Kodak compact camera my wife bought me as she was P****d off with me using her Ixus in the shop, I've been meaning to rig up some sort of stand using a magentic base to try a reduce the camera shake, I think this will be the spur for me to get on and do it.

Cheers

Stew
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #9 on: May 19, 2009, 09:35:19 AM »
Tim,

Your last paragraph is how I learned to take pics. Also what helped was way back when we had a couple of people that worked at Kodak that were also model railroaders and had articles published in major modeling magazines. They gave a few classes on how to take good pics. Helped a lot with my picture taking.

Great tips in this thread. Hope it gets read a lot. Time will tell. Now lets see if the photos will increase in quality.

Bernd
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Offline shred

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #10 on: May 20, 2009, 12:57:12 AM »
With my little camera, in macro mode it appears in the display to focus closer than it really does.  If yours is like that, back off and crop the photo down later.  Cropping can hide vast amounts of workshop junk and mess    ::)  Auto-fixes are getting pretty good at making colors look right too.

I also like to see something providing scale in photos, especially of finished projects.  It can be tough sometimes to include something everybody knows the size of all over the world, like Cedge's Coke can, but a little thought often comes up with something most of us have or know the size of.

Offline cedge

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #11 on: May 20, 2009, 01:14:30 AM »
Tim
I got into taking pictures back when i was doing commercial graphics work. I'm not a studio shooter by any means, but I  know my way around my editing software....(grin).  I've been known to salvage some truly terrible shots. My private little play ground gallery is located at http://power-photoimpact.com , if you want a few minutes entertainment.

Steve


Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #12 on: May 20, 2009, 03:53:03 AM »
Lots of good advice there.  :headbang:

Thanks Tim!  :thumbup:

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Offline John-Som

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #13 on: May 20, 2009, 03:41:42 PM »
Tim

Much welcome advice and like most things its attention to detail and taking the time and trouble to get the best possible conditions that seems to be  important and not totally down to the camera. Many thanks for taking the time to run through the subject, and without blinding us with science. I am sure there will be many of our members who will be acting on your suggestions and hopefully posting some dazzling pictures.

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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #14 on: May 20, 2009, 06:40:12 PM »
Good thread Tim, and well put over  :thumbup:

I toy with piccy taking a little too and you are spot on about attention to detail; a plain backdrop using a piece of cloth or paper / card can be useful, rather than a boring wall and the "bounce flash" (if you can use a separate flash gun) is great
but

Looking at your pictures and "extracting the best bits" ............. commonly called cropping  :med: ............. is worth a lot, often there is a dam good picture lurking inside another ......... I've got a good example somewhere ............. but it's Dog related rather than engineering,  so I'll leave it out.

Looking forward to hearing more, thanks for taking the time to explain things.

atb

Dave

Offline Darren

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #15 on: May 20, 2009, 07:24:09 PM »
Thank you Tim for waking me up on this issue. I've been very lazy of late with my camera work,


Examples, hope you all don't mind me repeating these pictures cos I've just put them up elsewhere.

This one was taken on the cameras auto setting with built in flash and hand held.
f/3.5 1/60 second exposure



This one the cameras flash was turned off, I used lighting to the right of the camera with a 500W bulb on a tripod
f/36 and 15 second exposure, camera on a tripod



This one has the same light to the side plus a halogen above (the mill light)
f/36 10 second exposure




I hope you can see the difference,  If they were loaded onto a web page properly and linked from there there would be a bigger difference as photobucket seriously reduces the file size and quality so a lot of the effort is lost.

« Last Edit: May 20, 2009, 07:25:40 PM by Darren »
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #16 on: May 21, 2009, 01:52:36 AM »
Thanks for posting those Darren,they help to show some differences in light sources and directions.

F36  :bugeye: that's pretty much stopped down as far as they go.


I'm gonna take a couple of pics in the next couple of days to illustrate another point, and I also want to do a post on photographing highly reflective objects, but I've got to do a little experimenting with that one. I'll try and post up my experiences for all to see.


I looked at your site Steve and am seriously impressed with your artistic and PP skills  :clap: :thumbup:


Sorry for not updating this earlier, there are a few subjects I want to cover, and I can see them in my head, but I find trouble extracting them in a way that wont appear like they've been written by a demented babboon on speed. So I kinda have to chew things over for a bit to try and get it down on (electronic) paper.


Tim
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Offline Darren

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #17 on: May 21, 2009, 05:11:38 AM »
re f36

Yes right down, as far as I know that's not the best place to be? around the middle should be better?

I need to experiment some more, just ordered some new bulbs. I'm going to try those new low energy types and see how they compare to my 500w tungstens.
Two or three of them on and it starts to get pretty warm around here !!!


Please post some more, I quite keen to learn on this subject.... :)
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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #18 on: May 21, 2009, 08:16:11 AM »
re f36

Yes right down, as far as I know that's not the best place to be? around the middle should be better?

Well, you will get more depth of field with F36, but most lenses tend to suffer with increased softness at such small apertures, from what I've read, most lenses are at their sharpest when stopped down between about 2-3 F-stops from wide open, so if your lens is a F2.8 then around F5.6 will be pretty mush as sharp as you can get, of if your lens is a F4 or F5.6 then F8-11 will yield sharpest results.

That being said, there's no magic F number, you may have selected the sharpest F-stop but may have a subject that is only half in focus. So it can be a matter of compromise. If you can't get the whole subject in focus at the desired aperture then you will have to use a smaller (confusingly a higher F number) aperture as there's no point having a photo of a subject where only a part is pin-sharp and the rest is fuzzy, better to compromise and get an overall-slightly-less-sharp photo with all the desired elements in focus. ( I do have a technique that I will go into at another time that gives Pin-Sharp photos with all desired elements in spot on focus, but I want to deal with the basics 1st)

In short, experiment with your settings, try snapping at F36, then without changing anything other that shutter speed and aperture, try F22, then F16 and so on. Then when you open all the pics up on the pc, see which have all the desired elements in focus? Which are the sharpest? and most importantly, Which do you like the best?

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Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2009, 03:36:05 PM »
Ok, so I spent this afternoon playing with photographing my Elmers #25 and wanted to share my methods ( these are not the only way to achieve these results, just the way I did it (thus ends the disclaimer) )

When you want to photograph a highly reflective object (like a shiny, blinged, polished engine) what you need to think about is what will be reflected, ie the surroundings.

The easiest way to control the surroundings (reflections) in models is to spend 10 shiny pounds ( or there abouts ) (or see below for a cheaper DIY alternative) and invest in a "light tent" ( they come in all sorts of sizes from 50cm cubes up to ones that a person can stand up in ) I got a 50cm cube from ebay, I just shopped around for the cheapest one, and it came with 4 coloured inserts (red,blue,black and white) and all comes in a handy sized package shown below.



From this little package, once released it springs up to this shape in the middle of this pic (ignore the large round white reflector leaning behind the cube) (this is the setup I used to photograph my Elmers #25 final shots)


If you ignore all the stuff set up around the light tent, I lit it by a conventional flashgun on the right and a mains powered flash on the right ( the light is bounced off an umbrella. You dont need all that stuff to get exactly the same results as I did, it's just that I already had this stuff and so used it.

The idea is that you set up the light tent on a table, (a hard topped surface is better than the bed I used, I had to put a flat object under the tent) choose what background you want to use (white for nice clean shots like you see in catalogues, Black for more dramatic effect, or other colours according to your personal preference) and attach it to the tent.

Now you light it, and you can use 2 or 3 ordinary desk lamps, the sunlight if you are outside ( and in a different country to me  :lol: ), really whatever light source you have, and aim them at either side and perhaps the top too. The white material that the tent is made out of diffuses the light and spreads it evenly over your model, and the shiney parts only reflect the white walls and roof of the tent giving you consistent and not distracting reflections. You can experiment with spacing your light sources differently, ie move the light on the left a bit further away than the light on the right, this will give a slight difference in intensity of light from the left and can help give your model more depth/3D-ness in the photo.

You can also experiment with putting some black card up against one side of the tent (out of the camera's view), that will change the reflections on the model. (obviously the light will not be able to go through the black card so you would need to move your light source/s to suit)

Now, having said that you can buy a light tent, you can equally make one. Imagine a cardboard box sitting on one end so that the top or the open part is facing you. Now cut large square holes in the upper, left, and right sides. Now line the whole box, covering the freshly cut holes with large sheets of tracing paper glued in place, or you could use some white nylon material to line it. Voila !! your very own homemade light tent. ( just not as collapsable as the commercial ones )


The next tip is the way to get a shot like this one, with a reflection.


This is really simple, just place a piece of glass (make sure it is very clean, as every spec of dust will be highlighted) on top of the background material and place your model on top of the glass. You probably have noticed that there is a double reflection on the above photo, that is caused by light reflecting from both the top and underside of the glass. To prevent this you need to either paint the underneath of the glass, or use a piece of glossy black acrylic instead of the glass.



Here's a pic just using the white background.



Just one final tip, when photographing your finished models, dont just position them square on to the camera, turn them a bit to an angle, you'll find the pictures much more 3D looking and more eye-catching.



Hope I havent bored you all to sleep,



Tim
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2009, 03:51:15 PM »
Hi Tim Thanks very much for showing these techniques, very interesting and the results are staggering.

 :thumbup:  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:  :

nrocks: :nrocks: :nrocks:
 
:ddb: :ddb: :ddb:
 
:beer:

Stew




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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2009, 04:35:49 PM »
Thanks Tim, hopefully ...........  when spare time rear's it's head again I'll have a go ......... nice pics and an easy to follow post, Cheers  :thumbup:

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2009, 07:19:57 PM »
Very nicely explained and shown Tim,

Deff something to refer back to ..... :thumbup:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2009, 01:56:08 AM »
Thanks for that Tim!  :thumbup:

David D
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Offline dsquire

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #24 on: July 26, 2009, 06:07:37 PM »
Hi Tim
No you havent bored me to sleep. I don't know how I missed it when it was first posted. :doh:

That was a very good lesson on how to use the camera. I shall be off now to do a bit of practising.

cheers :beer:

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Offline Mike K

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #25 on: July 26, 2009, 08:02:49 PM »
Good tips.  Thanks, Tim.

Mike

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #26 on: July 27, 2009, 01:31:32 AM »
Thanks guys. I'm whayyyy far from being any kind of "pro" or "eggspurt", I just like to learn and to share what I've learnt.

I'm glad someone can find my ramblings semi-useful.



Tim
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Offline foozer

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #27 on: July 27, 2009, 02:41:13 AM »
Good subject. Time to actually learn how to use a camera Oh Boy

Robert
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Offline trevoratxtal

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #28 on: November 08, 2009, 08:23:07 AM »
Thank you for a lot of wonderful hints.
But I am still at a loss as to how to upload them to an article in the order I would like and with suitable captions .
My attempts were not as I desired.
please see
http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2154.0.
Any hints would be most appreciated.
Many thanks
Trev
PS the search facility on this site does not seem to find all incidence's of a key word.

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Taking photos in the workshop
« Reply #29 on: November 08, 2009, 08:38:09 AM »
Trev....


http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=607.0


Best I could do!



Good luck  :thumbup:




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