Author Topic: Internal threading  (Read 18454 times)

Offline Brass_Machine

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Internal threading
« on: June 11, 2009, 03:06:16 PM »
SO I am trying to help one of our members with some anti-backlash nuts for the micromill (X1). It looks like he has the metric version (being in the UK and all). The threads are 12mm x 2.0  From what I have seen, taps for this are outrageously expensive. I was thinking about doing some internal threading on the lathe. However, I have NO threading experience on it at all.

Suggestions on where to start?

Eric
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bogstandard

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #1 on: June 11, 2009, 03:52:15 PM »
I had a quickie look on my normal sites for 12x2mm taps, but none list them, so as you say, they are most probably very expensive specials.

Before you even start, I think the main problem you will have Eric, is your lathe.

Being from the US I assume it is an imperial machine, that if set up with a range of change gears, can cut a pitch SIMILAR to a metric thread. That means, I don't think you will be able to cut the thread to the critical exact pitch that you require, you will require it to be done on a metric machine with a metric leadscrew.

You would need to get your change gear charts out and see just how close you can get to ideal pitch using your imperial leadscrew.
You just might be lucky and find one that gets it spot on, but I doubt it very much.

As usual, the bearer of bad tidings.

Bad news Bogs.

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #2 on: June 11, 2009, 04:07:06 PM »
Eric,
I can find 12x1.25, 1.5 and 1.75 but not 12x2  :scratch: ................. is this a Chinese special ...    :smart: ....  just to be sure can you double check the size please ........... just a thought  :thumbup:

CC

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #3 on: June 11, 2009, 04:17:04 PM »
Eric,
I can find 12x1.25, 1.5 and 1.75 but not 12x2  :scratch: ................. is this a Chinese special ...    :smart: ....  just to be sure can you double check the size please ........... just a thought  :thumbup:

CC

Yup. It is an acme trapezoidal thread. I do believe that is it. This would be for the lead screws on the seig X1 micromill.

Eric
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Offline Darren

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #4 on: June 11, 2009, 04:18:30 PM »
A    B    C    D    Thread Pitch    Percent Error    Error in 10 Pitches
40    35    55    50    1.996 mm             0.215%    0.0214 mm
40    50    55    35    1.996 mm             0.215%    0.0214 mm
55    35    40    50    1.996 mm             0.215%    0.0214 mm
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Offline Darren

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #5 on: June 11, 2009, 04:34:43 PM »
Do a search for ball screw suppliers....


This chap sells the taps,I got mine for £7.00

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/2pc-ballscrew-1605-24in-56in-1pc-2005-110in-for-CNC_W0QQitemZ250414670194QQcmdZViewItemQQptZLH_DefaultDomain_0?hash=item3a4de0a172&_trksid=p3911.c0.m14&_trkparms=65%3A12|66%3A2|39%3A1|72%3A1683|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A2|294%3A50
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #6 on: June 11, 2009, 05:46:39 PM »
Yup. It is an acme trapezoidal thread.

Ahhh .......... not a common metric thread then ......  :hammer: ........... mmmmmmmmmm ..............  grinding up a hss bit might be the way to go ..... but ........  that's way outside my comfort zone so I'll defer to the more experienced on here  :bow:

Good luck

CC

Offline Xldevil

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #7 on: June 11, 2009, 10:33:44 PM »
Hallo.
Living in the "metric" world,I can second that a regular M12x2 thread does not exist.

The chart shows coarse or regular on the left,fine metric sizes on the right
Ralph

Offline Darren

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #8 on: June 12, 2009, 04:41:24 AM »
Neither does 10x2, but I have a tap for one..... :)
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Offline Darren

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #9 on: June 12, 2009, 05:07:24 AM »
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #10 on: June 12, 2009, 05:42:09 AM »
You will find that although threads are not listed under standard threading charts, doesn't mean that they do not exist.

A lot of specialist manufacturers use special threads, designed using standard thread formulae, to make unique parts. This helps them to keep control of spare parts, and charge what they want for them.

Once you have the OD, root dimension, pitch and thread angle, you can duplicate almost any specialist thread in existance, as long as your machine can give you the exact pitch.
 
On some German W+D envelope machines I used to work with, I made different sizes of taps for SAE (Society of Automotive Engineers) specialist superfine threads. Once you have they key to the threads used, you could very easily make up the special taps required. Thousands of squid to buy a new part, plus maybe weeks downtime waiting for delivery, or a few hours making a tap to repair the damaged part. You get a lot of brownie points with the boss if you can do that sort of thing.


This is one of those SAE taps, single flute, silver steel (drill rod) from many years ago. Plus of course, once you have the tap, you can make matching dies as well. They won't cut a lot of threads, but they get the job done at the time.




Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #11 on: June 12, 2009, 05:58:39 AM »
I used to make them out of the offending bolt with nothing more than a file.

If the bolt was high tensile even better, worked every time...

Eric, can you not use some of the threaded bar to make the tap?
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2009, 11:44:46 AM »
It is possible I imagine to use a scrap piece of lead screw. I saw someone had done it for 'plastic' anti backlash nuts. The machine in question is in the UK while I am stuck in the US.

Eric
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Offline DavesWimshurst

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Re: Internal threading
« Reply #13 on: June 13, 2009, 12:02:39 PM »
Eric,
You didn't say if you had access to the feed screw from a micromill for comparison.  Transposing gears of 17 and 18 teeth (or 34 and 36) when used with a quick change setting of 12 tpi will give an accuracy of better than 1 part in 2000.  This should be close enough for a short anti-backlash nut but I wouldn't try making one without the screw to test the fit.  12 tpi is coarser than 2 mm so the lead screw should be geared to run slower but otherwise my setup shown here may work for you:



Hope this helps.
Dave