Author Topic: Tool Post Grinder  (Read 164983 times)

Offline Joachim Steinke

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #25 on: October 06, 2009, 03:31:48 PM »
Hallo Stew,

this is my very first post here and I’m absolutely not used to publish in English, so have a little mercy with my grammar, its rusty. So I will try to use more pictures and reduce my statements…..ha ha ha…..

Some years ago I began experimenting with sewing machine motors for the same purpose than you, it was really not very satisfying. Cheap okay, but a lot of noise and vibrations too (poor bearings), and the little types up to 90 Watt are too weak for the most of that jobs on the lathe, particular for outer grinding operations with wheels obove 1” diameter.

So, if it has to be a little bit nice, really low vibrating, very compact and silent too what’s about using that type of servo motor:





This is a Nanotec DB42 Brushless DC Servo, 48 V, 150 VA, 6000 rpm, and it makes enough power for using 2” to 3” grinding wheels without problems. The only crux is the need of some special servo motor amplifier and a DC power supply. I use the Maxon DEC 50/5 amplifier and a switching power supply 50 V, 6.8 A.





Normally I use the spindle on my Mini_Bonelle tool and cutter grinder…..





but it always does a good job on the lathe too…..





Otherwise, for the limited purpose of internal grinding with small tools this little spindle with an Escap 36 V, 70 VA DC motor is really sufficient.








The system is very compact and can be convenient used on even small machines in the class of 13” between centers. Every normal DC power supply with a max. out put of 36 V and 2 A is sufficient to run this high precision motor.





Bye, Achim from Germany

P.S. more details can by seen on my web site http://www.metallmodellbau.de , sorry, but only German language there


P.P.S.  oops...got some problems with linking the pictures??

P.P.P.S...problems with pictures are solveld...ha ha ha
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 03:40:09 PM by Joachim Steinke »

bogstandard

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #26 on: October 06, 2009, 03:49:37 PM »
Stew,

Just been taxing my brain (whats left of it).

I am sure the brown stuff workers will know something about routers.

I bought one once, crippled some brown stuff with it, then duly gave it away.

What I am getting round to is that it had a very compact but super fast powerful motor on it.

It was only a cheapo Black & decker, but the motor was a self contained lift out unit in it's own case, not much larger than the sewing machine one you have already tried.

My neighbour picks them up from the Wednesday morning market car boot sale almost every other week for a couple of squid apiece.


John

Offline raynerd

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #27 on: October 06, 2009, 04:02:02 PM »
Joachim Steinke  - your English is excellent, don`t worry about that. Just been on your website with a translator and your work is absolutely amazing! I`m new to this hobby but I think your designs, pictures and finished products are some of the best I have seen....

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #28 on: October 06, 2009, 04:08:04 PM »
Hi Achim

Thank you for showing your grinder and pointing me in the right direction in regards to motor selection.

Had a look through your site, you have made some wonderful bits of machinery  :clap: :clap: :clap:

First class workmanship.  :clap: :clap: :clap:

I'm going to go back to your site and have a closer look at some of the things you've done.

Thanks you for showing

Cheers
 :beer:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline John Hill

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #29 on: October 06, 2009, 04:19:17 PM »
Joachim Steinke, welcome to our group and please do not be concerned at your skills in English.   I presume you learned your English through careful study at school or university  whereas I learned mine from the wife of a shepherd in the mountains of New Zealand and even now 60 years later I would still be like a helpless baby if I tried to speak your language.

I really admire your work and your photography too!

John Bogstandard,  I have a rather nice 1/2hp router (superceded by a bigger one) which is getting measured up for the toolpost.  The router name plate states 27K RPM and I am wondering what spindle speeds I should be allowing for in my design?

From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #30 on: October 06, 2009, 04:29:41 PM »
I am sure the brown stuff workers will know something about routers.

I bought one once, crippled some brown stuff with it, then duly gave it away.

What I am getting round to is that it had a very compact but super fast powerful motor on it.

It was only a cheapo Black & decker, but the motor was a self contained lift out unit in it's own case, not much larger than the sewing machine one you have already tried.

My neighbour picks them up from the Wednesday morning market car boot sale almost every other week for a couple of squid apiece.


John

That is a very good idea, for about 40 quid you can pick up a brand new small 500-900watt variable speed 1/4" collet router, with a speed range of 1000-20000 rpm. Spend a few quid more and you can get over 1100 watts. Some of them even have a standard size of collar ( 43mm as I recall  :scratch: ) that can be used for mounting it. Hmm, I think I might have yet another future project  :proj:

Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline dsquire

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #31 on: October 06, 2009, 05:04:36 PM »
Joachim Steinke

You have some excellent work there and some great ideas. Also, Welcome to the MadModder Forum. There is nothing wrong with your english and since you already know that  :worthless: you will have no problem. We hope your stay with us will be enjoyabe and I am sure that we will have much to learn in the future from your posts. :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline Joachim Steinke

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #32 on: October 06, 2009, 05:22:51 PM »
Hallo to all,

thank you for your nice replies and encouragement, its really the first time taking an active part in a Anglophone (or some other foreign language) forum for me.

It costs me quite an effort, okay, now I am glad I did it…..ha ha ha……

Bye for tonight, and simply call me Achim, it’s the short form for Joachim

Offline Darren

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #33 on: October 06, 2009, 06:57:10 PM »
Some very nice work you have there Achim  :bow:

I'm going to try to study your web site, alas my German is about as good as my woodworking skills but the pictures say a thousand words .....  :clap:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline dsquire

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #34 on: October 06, 2009, 07:15:52 PM »
Some very nice work you have there Achim  :bow:

I'm going to try to study your web site, alas my German is about as good as my woodworking skills but the pictures say a thousand words .....  :clap:

 :offtopic: Daren, Use google to translate, worked for me.

Cheers  :beer:

Don
« Last Edit: October 06, 2009, 07:29:04 PM by dsquire »
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Offline CrewCab

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #35 on: October 06, 2009, 07:27:12 PM »
Welcome to our forum Achim, we all hope you enjoy yourself here  :thumbup:

CC

Offline NickG

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #36 on: October 06, 2009, 07:48:37 PM »
Achim,

Great stuff there. Welcome to the site and thanks for your input :bow:

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #37 on: October 10, 2009, 11:27:38 AM »
Lady luck smiled on me yesterday.

Visited an old work friend to pay my Lottery dues, and was telling him about my problems with the sewing machine motor and that I was on the look out for a router, I've got one you can have he said part of the table is broke but the motor stills runs

This is the beast



850 watts variable speed between 11400 and 28000 rpm

First job strip all the bits that get in the way of a tool post grinder, this is what I ended up with.



And this little lot to be sorted out and stash away for other jobs.



Then spent the morning and some of the afternoon fitting it to the spindle.

And this is what I ended up with.






Works a treat only problem is the switch its one of those dead man switches but I'm sure I can get that sorted.

Nice one Ian thanks a million  :thumbup:

Cheers

Stew

As
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline HENNEGANOL

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #38 on: October 10, 2009, 12:35:21 PM »
The arrow on the motor suggests that that the spindle turns anticlockwise!

Gerald

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #39 on: October 10, 2009, 12:48:18 PM »
Gerald

Your right didn't spot that.

Thanks

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bluechip

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #40 on: October 10, 2009, 01:01:09 PM »
Stew

Does it matter?

If the grinder wheel is going opposite to mandrel, just add the two surface speeds, ??

Why should it go clockwise ??

Or have I missed something ??

Dave BC
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bogstandard

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #41 on: October 10, 2009, 01:02:07 PM »
As you can reverse the rotation of your chuck Stew, that should make no difference to you.

For external grinding, run the chuck in reverse, for internal, normal rotation, opposite to normal method.

The only thing to keep an eye on is the nuts or chuck that hold the wheels, they would need to be left hand threads.


Bogs

Offline Darren

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #42 on: October 10, 2009, 01:08:47 PM »
Reading between the lines here, it seems it would not be a good idea to reverse the router ...... or the chuck might/would come undone .....   :zap:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #43 on: October 10, 2009, 01:22:42 PM »
Nice find Stew  :thumbup: .............. as for the switch it's simple enough I had the same on a router I fixed to a table. I just bypassed the dead man switch and used an in line on off one, though mine went on the wall, your a little more limited  :smart:

As for rotation can you use a figure of 8 belt, probably need to offset the pulley a little.

CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #44 on: October 10, 2009, 02:39:56 PM »
Thinking about it a little more I guess you are not using the routers chuck, so it probably wouldn't matter if you reversed it anyway .... confused meself now .. :doh:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #45 on: October 10, 2009, 02:43:44 PM »
.... confused meself now .. :doh: 

and me  :scratch:

 :beer:  CC

Offline Darren

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #46 on: October 10, 2009, 03:04:24 PM »
Ok,

Wot I'm meaning is this, Stew can reverse the router motor direction because he's not using the routers collet which would come off in reverse direction as the threads would be the wrong handedness ..... I bet that don't help one iota  :lol:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline John Hill

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #47 on: October 10, 2009, 03:46:11 PM »
I think it is a good idea to have the sparks going down, less mess.  One of my books says to put a tray of water arcross the ways  which will catch almost all sparks and grit.
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Offline HENNEGANOL

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #48 on: October 10, 2009, 04:01:46 PM »
Why not do away with the spindle and use the router to hold your grind stone.  The motor is rated at more than 1 HP and you are able to adjust the speed.

I have an old B&D router which I fit in a block of aluminium bolted to the crosslide.  The aluminium block was bored out to suit the boss on the router, using a boring attachment mounted in the headstock spindle, which ensures that it is at centre height.

The collet on the router can accept a 1/4" spindle which means that Clarkson FC3 throwaway cutters can be fitted or suitable grindstones.  The motor is rated at 480 watts and runs at 26,000 rpm, which I suspect is the light load speed.

Gerald

bogstandard

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Re: Tool Post Grinder
« Reply #49 on: October 10, 2009, 04:23:04 PM »
Sorry to have addled your brains a bit lads.

I was refering to the lathe chuck not the router chuck.

The normal method is to have the two grind faces running with each other rather than against. So if the chuck was going in it's normal rotation (anti clockwise), for outside grinding, you would have the grinding wheel running clockwise.

Unless you can reverse toolpost grinder and of course the grinding wheel, then for internal grinding, you should run the chuck in reverse, to get the two faces running together the same way.

The reason for the difference in speeds between internal and external is because of the peripheral speeds of the wheels. Outside grinding uses a larger wheel, so the speed has to be kept lower to keep within the burst limit of the wheel. Inside grinding wheels (usually called a mounted points) are much smaller, so their burst speed is much higher, so are run a lot faster.

Hope I have got it all right.

Bogs