Author Topic: getting started with electronics (Read 47945 times)

Rob.Wilson · « **on:** December 27, 2009, 05:59:31 AM »

Hi ALL

I see some very interesting project on Madmodders whitch involve electronics ,i no nothing about electronics and would like to no more on the subject ,could anyone give me some pionters on how to get started ,are there any teach yourself kits out there ?

Regards Rob

Bluechip · « **Reply #1 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:10:20 AM »

Rob

I started about half a century ago by going insane. After that everything seemed to fall into place

There used to be a Mag called Everyday Electronics, they have a www site epemag3, I think.
One of the things they did was a 'Beginners Series' about every 2 yrs.
Maybe that still do. Gooogle the site, I think it gives the mag contents ..

http://www.epemag3.com/

Dave BC

John Rudd · « **Reply #2 on:** December 27, 2009, 06:47:28 AM »

Have a look here: http://www.talkingelectronics.com/te_interactive_index.html

Bernd · « **Reply #3 on:** December 27, 2009, 04:23:04 PM »

Here in the US there used to be two places that helped me get started into electronics. Radio Shack and The Heathkit company. There were also all sorts of electronic magazines available too.

I guess this is the wrong question to ask, but what would you like to know? Basic DC circuits, AC circuits, IC circuits?
I learned by doing. Killed a lot of electronic parts learning, but it was well worth it.

One thing I must warn you about learning this stuff. It's tough to keep up with the technology. About the time you learn something real well it's obsolete.

Bernd

Krown Kustoms · « **Reply #4 on:** December 27, 2009, 09:26:50 PM »

I agree, I just now feel comfortable with GE PLC's and now we are getting ready to upgrade everything to Allen Bradley (at work)
As soon as you 'get it' it changes.
-B-

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #5 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:00:34 AM »

Thanks Lads

Dave ,, i will look into getting the Everyday Electronics mag had a look on the site looks a good place to start ,,cheers

Jhon ,,, i have book marked the site allot of good stuff there too ,thanks

B you lost me at GE PLC

Bernd ,,,not the wrong question to ask ,,but a good one ,,i have two projects in mined first ,,i have a couple of 12v DC motors that i would like to use for power feeds on my mill/drill ,,so i would like to make some thing to control the speed of the motor

and the second is ,i have a small R/T that i would like to convert to CNC ,,so i would need a driver card for motor the on that ,,,I NO these are not newby projects but thats what i am aming for ,,so i will start with some smaller projects firts

I found this on the net last night ,EPL500 - 500 in 1 Electronic Project Lab,could you please have a look at it ,and let me no what you think http://www.quasarelectronics.com/maxitronix/epl500-500-in-1-electronic-project-lab-mx-909.htm

Many thanks Rob

John Rudd · « **Reply #6 on:** December 28, 2009, 06:52:37 AM »

Rob,

Thats a serious amount of money to spend for what you get.....

Are there any tech colleges nearby that run basic electronic courses for beginners? That would be a good start....How about GCSE courses either in books or online?

How about Amazon or Play.com for learning resources...?

If you buy books and apply the learnings into practice you may well pick it up quickly...Besides I'm sure that between us all, we can help with any issues you have on the way....

BTW I'm self taught....but that dont make me an expert

andyf · « **Reply #7 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:29:58 AM »

The kit seems an awful lot of money for a pile of components, most of which would cost pence each, and some instruction books. It covers a lot that you may not be interested in, like audio and radio stuff.

Bearing in mind your wish to build a couple of 12 volt dc motor controllers, it might be a good idea to buy a kit for one of those - the same people sell Velleman kits, and the K8004 looks like it might do the trick. You would need a cheap multimeter, small soldering iron + solder, some lightweight wire snips to trim component leads after soldering them into place, and a reasonably beefy transformer power supply. As you probably won't want to traverse both the X and the Y axes of your mill simultaneously, it should be possible to use one controller and switch it to the relevant motor.

This might be a cheaper way to get started, with the idea of producing something you are actually going to use - if you build it right. Even if you buy the kit, you will eventually need the multimeter, soldering iron etc when it comes to building something practical, rather than just experimenting by plugging components into sockets on a "breadboard".

Andy

Bluechip · « **Reply #8 on:** December 28, 2009, 07:44:58 AM »

Rob,

I agree with John. £180 is a lot to splash out IMHO. I suggest you start with some of the resistor/capacitor packs from Rapid electronics or the like, and some small Stripboard. There are many websites giving basic circuits to build, with just a few cheap ic's etc. You need a soldering iron with a small +/- 1mm tip, and a meter. For about £30 you will be away ... My own personal opinion, is, I don't like breadboards. I accept a lot of folk do, I always seem to get intermittent shorts from crossing component leads. Thus squandering my allocation of profanities.

That EPE mag has, in the past, done a 'Teach In' series. I don't know if they still do, or if one is planned. They used to appear about every 2 yrs or so, they MAY be on one of their CD's.

Despite what Bernd said, IMO that is the right question to ask. ( I'm sure it was a bit tongue in cheek

). Without an effective grasp of the basic Ohms Law etc., nothing will make any sense. Particularly for DC stuff. The AC is more abstruse, and you can probably get way without it for an absolute beginner.

Sending a PM ..

PS You have realised that £180 is very close to 120 litres of Becks Bier from Sainsburys ....

Dave BC

EDIT Crossed post with Andy, repeated some of his observations ... Sorry ..

Bernd · « **Reply #9 on:** December 28, 2009, 10:07:22 AM »

Quote from: Bluechip on December 28, 2009, 07:44:58 AM

Despite what Bernd said, IMO that is the right question to ask. ( I'm sure it was a bit tongue in cheek ).
Dave BC

Well, ya, sort of tonge in check

, But that's me.

Bernd

Bernd · « **Reply #10 on:** December 28, 2009, 10:24:14 AM »

Quote from: Rob.Wilson on December 28, 2009, 05:00:34 AM

Bernd ,,,not the wrong question to ask ,,but a good one ,,i have two projects in mined first ,,i have a couple of 12v DC motors that i would like to use for power feeds on my mill/drill ,,so i would like to make some thing to control the speed of the motor

Many thanks Rob

Rob,

A good place to get ideas about controlling DC motors to go "outside the box" and look at toy robotic drives. They use motors to drive the robot. They have what's called and "H" bridge to drive the motors. Consists of 4 drive transistors and the supporting circuitry. I know sounds complicated. If I could find my book on this subject I could do a C-o-C for you. But this is one place you can start.

As far as buying a kit and building that, I would instead buy a book that has some simple circuits in it and start there. Like I said before I killed a lot of electronics components learning. Intergrated chips and transistors can easily be damged.

I learned about electronics with my interest in model railroading. I built some simple circuits that were written up in the popular model magazines. Next thing I knew I was into designing circuit boards. Before I knew it I had another hobby - electronics.

Another piece of advise here is try to learn just one segment of electronics, like DC. Then go on to the next and so on. Good luck.

I'll see if I can find my book on robotic drives and help out with any questions you may have.

Bernd

Bernd · « **Reply #11 on:** December 28, 2009, 11:15:05 AM »

Rob,

I found an example of an H - bridge motor drive. Also discovered that all my electronic books are stored at a relatives attic, at least that's what the wife says.

Anyway here it is:

John Rudd · « **Reply #12 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:49:59 PM »

Rob,

EPE magazine does some 'Teach in series' stuff on cd...if thats the way you want to go...

As for the Velleman kit, I built one of them and gave it away to a very good friend of mine for his detailing sander...The kit although it is good and makes use of good electronic priciples wasnt powerful enough for my use...A controller for my wiper motor based X axis drive...( I'm having a rethink on this project

)

Shout up if you need help..

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #13 on:** December 28, 2009, 01:57:36 PM »

Cheers Lads ,,, allot of great advice he ,,,,i will not get the electronics lab ,pleased i asked

John ,, i did have a look into trying to get on some sort of couse ,but was unable to fine any local collages doing electronics and i could not fined any distace learning courses either,,they just do electrics house wiring that sort of thing

Andy,, I do have most of the kit you list ,but i will have to get a smaller end for my soldering iron and i don't have a power supply, thats some thing i will have to get ,or modifi a comuter power supply ,into a bench one if possible

Dave ,

that is allot of beer ,,you made a very good point ,Without an effective grasp of the basic Ohms Law etc., nothing will make any sense,,I could not agree more ,i would like to no why ,how and were ,,not becouse it just dose

Bernd ,made another good point ,,try to learn just one segment of electronics, like DC. Then go on to the next and so on.

great advise lads ,i will start at the begining and hopefully work forward ,,no dought i will fry a good few parts on the way ,there is a local Maplins not far from were i live so i will go and have a look in there for some books and a small starter project

Many thanks Rob

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #14 on:** December 28, 2009, 02:07:21 PM »

Hi John

Sorry cross post ,,, the motors i have are car power steering motors ,it was seeing your X axis drive that gave me the motivation to have a go ,are you going to make a new controller ?
Thanks i will Shout up

Regards Rob

andyf · « **Reply #15 on:** December 28, 2009, 04:15:35 PM »

Quote

Rob: I did have a look into trying to get on some sort of couse ,but was unable to fine any local collages doing electronics

The local library often has info on what's available and where. What little I can remember came from doing the course for my amateur radio licence. This goes into the basics pretty thoroughly, and you don't have to take the exam at the end, or even stay on the course once it gets to stuff like radio procedures, rules and regs etc. My course was run by a local college, but many local amateur radio societies run them - no doubt the RSGB (Radio Society of Great Britain, or Ready Steady Go Brigade if you prefer) will have lists.

Andy

PS An ohm is an 'ouse where a volt lives

.

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #16 on:** December 28, 2009, 05:11:29 PM »

Quote from: andyf on December 28, 2009, 04:15:35 PM

PS An ohm is an 'ouse where a volt lives .

I will look into that Andy

Cheers Rob

dsquire · « **Reply #17 on:** December 28, 2009, 09:39:11 PM »

Rob

Here is a site that I have found that has some information that starts from the beginning and works it way up to where ever you want to go. Check it out, the price is right. Hope it is of some help to you.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_1/chpt_1/1.html

There are a lot more sites around that have various level of electronic information available as well as sample projects to build to get used to working with various electronic parts. You can have a lot of fun with a handful of cheap parts and a soldering iron while learning about what some of the parts do in an electrical circuit.

Happy New Year Rob

Cheers

Don

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #18 on:** December 29, 2009, 12:11:29 PM »

Hi Don

Great site ,thanks just what i need very clear ,,i have book maked it ,i must get more printer paper ,Have a great new year Don

I did not get to Maplins today as central heating packed in

first thing tomorrow thats were i will be heading, but i did get a late christmass pressant through the post from the kids ,The better harf must actualy pay attention ,i commented about it in model engineer mounths ago ,any way here it is a book

Just had a quick flick through looks great

Question ? has any of you lads used any of the electronic symulation programs out there ?

Regards Rob

Bluechip · « **Reply #19 on:** December 29, 2009, 06:55:26 PM »

Rob

Good book, Bought it a couple of years ago. Beware the semiconductor type listings at the back. In my copy, maybe now corrected I hope, the table headings go out of sync.

A site worth a shufti, just found it tonight, ...

http://www.kpsec.freeuk.com/compon.htm

Nice pics and descriptions of various components, colour codes, etc..

Dave BC

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #20 on:** December 30, 2009, 04:50:13 AM »

Hi Dave

Cheers great site

looks like i will have to brush up on my maths too , witch tables are you refering too in the book so i can check

Thanks Rob

Bluechip · « **Reply #21 on:** December 30, 2009, 05:45:03 AM »

Hi Rob

On my issue .. Ch.23.. P182

P182 & 183 are correct.

The tables headed 'High power MOSFETS thro' Low Current Rectifier Diodes' do list devices true to headings ... But.

on P184 under Schottky Barrier Diodes, the book repeats the devices under 'Low Current rectifier Diodes' the tables are displaced by one ..

until the end where you see a table headed 'Regulators' none are listed. The devices under this heading are correct for the previous heading 'Signal Diodes'

If, on P185, the last entry under 'Regulators' is 'BAT49', your copy is is error like mine.

No great problem, unless .... you think it may be right

Dave BC

EDIT Jut noticed your e-mail ... give me a few mins ... will show you ...

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #22 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:06:02 AM »

Hi Dave

Yep mine reads the same as yours

QUOTE unless .... you think it may be right

i have just found out that electricity gose backwards

Regards Rob

Bluechip · « **Reply #23 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:23:45 AM »

Rob

'Course it goes backwards, or forwards

Conventional Current goes from + to -
Electron Flow goes from - to +

Covers most eventualities eh ????

Good stuff Electronics .. answer for everything

Dave BC

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #24 on:** December 30, 2009, 06:41:54 AM »

Hi Dave

Just read Email ,Thanks ,i see what you mean now about the lists ,,it dose seem comon in tec publications for things to get a bit mixed up ,,there is no way i would have spotted that , as i dont no enough/anything about the subject,cheers for pointing it out i will print off your notes and keep them with the book

I think trying to get my head around whats actualy going on in an electrical curcit will be the hard part

but it dose look fun

Regards Rob

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #25 on:** December 31, 2009, 08:59:35 AM »

Hi All

Well i finaly managed to get to Maplins today ,,This is what i came back with
A small breadboard and some jumpers,,

and a GCSE electronics kit

I no a few of you lads don't like breadboards ,but i thought i would give it ago for putting together basic curcits,and i can sit on the sofa in the warm and fiddel about with it

Cheers Rob and i hope everyone has a great new year

John Rudd · « **Reply #26 on:** December 31, 2009, 09:18:38 AM »

Wise move there Rob, the plug in boards and wires will help you quickly build and change...

The strip board isnt as versatile and you need to master the art of soldering.....

Enjoy!

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #27 on:** December 31, 2009, 09:42:30 AM »

Cheers John

I thought it would be the best way to go ,as i will be able to re-use components as i go along , i will move on to the strip board when i start to get to grips with things ,
Now that strip board has been mentioned ,,i notice in the shop it comes in all sort of sizes , i take it you cut it to size,,,Whats the best way of cutting it up ?

Regards Rob

John Rudd · « **Reply #28 on:** December 31, 2009, 10:43:50 AM »

Quote from: Rob.Wilson on December 31, 2009, 09:42:30 AM

Now that strip board has been mentioned ,,i notice in the shop it comes in all sort of sizes , i take it you cut it to size,,,Whats the best way of cutting it up ?

Regards Rob

Rob,

It can be cut with a hack saw either along the tracks or across...If you need to make breaks in the tracks to segregate signals/components etc, use a small drill bit, around 1/8 should do..But...you must make sure the break is clean..ie there arent any 'whiskers' of copper. I use a small mag glass to check ( my eyesight aint what it used to be..

)

Another tip, if you need to make wire bridges to jump from track to track, Maplin sell some solid copper wire, bit like the flexy stranded stuff..just strip the pvc off, straighten with a pair of pliers..

Bernd · « **Reply #29 on:** December 31, 2009, 02:06:41 PM »

Rob,

Very nice start. May I suggest a vairable DC power supply to power the projects. A supply that will supply from 0 to 12V DC max would be a great start.

But here's an idea. Look for plans for a simple power supply that will give you the voltage that you'll be working with to make your circuits. This is usally one of the first things a person new to electronice would build. It will give you insight to where and how a power supply works.

Cutting the boards can be a bit tough. They are usally made from fiberglass and will dull HSS tools fast. For one or two cuts HSS tools are fine but for more I would look into a carbide saw.

Let us know how you make out with a power supply.

Bernd

John Rudd · « **Reply #30 on:** December 31, 2009, 03:12:02 PM »

Bernd..Looks like a fg board...could just be the light playing tricks on my eyes...

Rob,

If you want some of the orignal Veroboard ( for free...) pm me your address and I'll get some in the post...

Shout up if you need help building a power supply..

Although I wouldnt recommend it as a first or early project...it involves mains electricity...

Bernd · « **Reply #31 on:** January 01, 2010, 10:08:21 AM »

Quote from: John Rudd on December 31, 2009, 03:12:02 PM

Bernd..Looks like a fg board...could just be the light playing tricks on my eyes...

fg board ='s what? Fiberglass? Phenolic (sp?)?

The lighting tells my eyes it has a green tint. Maybe my monitor's not set right. A green color usally indicates fiberglass to me. I've used the brown colored boards before also. They were a phenolic base.

Bernd

John Rudd · « **Reply #32 on:** January 01, 2010, 10:20:22 AM »

Quote from: Bernd on January 01, 2010, 10:08:21 AM

fg board ='s what? Fiberglass? Phenolic (sp?)?

The lighting tells my eyes it has a green tint. Maybe my monitor's not set right. A green color usally indicates fiberglass to me. I've used the brown colored boards before also. They were a phenolic base.

Bernd

fg = fibreglass...

Brown boards usually made from SRBP, Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper..

The green stuff is a solder resist mask added over the copper to protect it...Generally I just spray over my boards with some lacquer after soldering all the components to protect from the environment..Stops the copper from oxidising

Bernd · « **Reply #33 on:** January 01, 2010, 05:41:46 PM »

Got it now John, thanks. Like the clear lacquer over the copper. Great idea.

Bernd

John Rudd · « **Reply #34 on:** January 01, 2010, 06:02:24 PM »

Bernd,

I aint no Guru..

Just like sharing what I know, like everyone else...

I know some folk like Oneupmanship....having more knowledge than some one else...

I'm not like that..if some one needs to know something and I can help I will...

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #35 on:** January 02, 2010, 07:08:09 AM »

Hi Lads

Interesting ,i now no that there is differant types of board ,the board is green and has a white edge ,looks like Fiberglass ,nothing wrong with your eyes John

Thanks for the tips on using board John

Bend ,good idea as when looking at a few projects they all ran on diferant voltages , i think i will by a bench top power supply ,they have some here http://www.esr.co.uk/electronics/products/frame_powersupplies.htm and they are not far from were i live

Thanks Rob

Bernd · « **Reply #36 on:** January 02, 2010, 10:20:36 AM »

Quote from: John Rudd on January 01, 2010, 06:02:24 PM

Bernd,

I aint no Guru..

Just like sharing what I know, like everyone else...

I know some folk like Oneupmanship....having more knowledge than some one else...

I'm not like that..if some one needs to know something and I can help I will...

I'm glad your sharing. I've learned something and I hope others that look at this thread will also.

Collective knowledge

Great stuff. Don't know were you got the "oneupmanship" from.

Looks like we both know just enough to be dangerous.

At least me anyway.

Ok, back to learning.

Bernd

John Swift · « **Reply #37 on:** July 16, 2010, 12:29:54 PM »

Hi rob
how's your electronics experiments going ?
some times depending on the make of resistors you are using
it easy to confuse the red and orange or blue and grey bands
when viewed under flourecent lights , if you are not sure :-- cheat and check them
with your multimeter

for many simple circuits you don't need a large selection of types of transistor
just because somebody designing in the UK may prefer to use BC... types and others in the US 2N.... transistors
but that does not stop you using a bc109 instead of a 2N2926 but check the emiter base and collector wires are in
the same order !!!
search for " ELEKTOR TUP TUN DUS DUS " and you will see a large selection of interchangeable european
transistors and diodes , Elektor magazine use in their projects

I hope you are having fun

John Swift

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #38 on:** July 16, 2010, 01:50:43 PM »

Hi and Welcome John

i hope to have my fist flux capacitor and photon torpedo up and running next week

,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Its coming along slowly at the moment i am still playing with resistors and capacitors , Ohms law ,, the basics ,,,,,,,, I hope to do allot more this coming winter ,, i have a few projects in mined

i thought it was my eyes when looking at the colours

,, so i have been checking them with the meter just to make sure ,,, the problem is they are so small and i have to chase them about trying to get hold of them with my sausage fingers ,, then when i drop the dam things i cant fined it, as they are the same colour as the carpet

Thanks for the link and the tips

,,,,,,,,, i have so much to learn

Regards Rob

Do you have any projects on the go at the moment ?

MrFluffy · « **Reply #39 on:** July 16, 2010, 05:51:30 PM »

Quote from: Rob.Wilson on December 31, 2009, 08:59:35 AM

Hi All

Well i finaly managed to get to Maplins today ,,This is what i came back with
A small breadboard and some jumpers,,

and a GCSE electronics kit

I think that looks really handy especially the hookup wire pack and the gcse components, how much were they if you dont mind me enquiring. I didn't realize maplin's still sold stuff this interesting.

Bernd mentioned radio shack earlier, they're Tandy over in the uk. Once upon a time they sold components and Vellerman kits and all that, but nowadays I think they are just consumer electronics box shifters.

raynerd · « **Reply #40 on:** July 17, 2010, 02:11:29 AM »

I don`t know what your like on the computer John, but I had great fun when I was introduced to digital electronics in the form of PIC microcontrollers: http://www.raynerd.co.uk/?cat=28 This is relatively expensive but if you order a PIC with it, it is everything you need other than a computer to hook it upto and you can make working circuits, flashing LEDs, electronic dice .... within hours! Lots of support on the net to help. Obviously the focus is on the programming but you can do a lot with just the basics. Once you have a running PIC you can build a circuit to run it off.

I have since gone and taken my Foundation and Intermeddiate HAM Radio exams and have learnt tonnes more on electronics from those but digitial electronics was certainly a good way to get normally tricky circuits built !

Good luck!
Chris

John Swift · « **Reply #41 on:** July 17, 2010, 09:42:01 AM »

Hi Rob ,
just wait 'till you start with surface mount components they do not hide on the carpet, but in it

my last planned project has been to service a 10 year old CL300 minilathe having decide to take up metal working
this christmas.
so far I have reverse engineered the speed control in order to fix the two faults it had
the interlock relays buzzed a lot before latching and if you advance the speed control quickly
you had a burst of full power before running at the set speed.
if some one is interested i'll have a look at how i post a scan of the circuit diagram

I am now in the middle of fitting new roller bearings
one slight mistake I should have waited untill I had the roller bearings before removing the ball races
now I will have to put one of the old bearings back in order to make two longer spacers .
the inner of the new bearings are setback by 1.25mm

since then my acer x221w monitor lost power to the fluorecent back light
with no service manual the first trick was to open it up !
once in side I decided to cheat as the transformer had over heated
I removed the transformer and any other components not required on the combined power supply and lamp driver pcb.
I replaced the lot with a universal lamp driver of ebay

after that the 29 year old tv developed a fault in the video out put stages fixed with a new TDA2532 ic (new old stock)
now the switch mode power supply has stopped working , more bits on order

Hi craynerd
I have built ( or should that be assembled ) the pc I am using now
I would only call my self a computer user and not an expert
before I was distracted with other things I adapted some one elses program and programmed a pic chip to drive a stepper motor
I'll be back at square one when I get back to it again

John Swift · « **Reply #42 on:** July 17, 2010, 12:11:56 PM »

Hi Rob
Just for fun have a look a " silicon zoo " hidden artwork inside ic's
or " tin whiskers "no not tins of whiskers cat food but the metal tin filaments that grow inside transistors and thigs
pictures can be found at vintage-radio.net and nasa goddard for starters

" quaraplex park " has old vt machines some I have used but thats another story

John Swift · « **Reply #43 on:** July 17, 2010, 12:37:06 PM »

oops I can not type very well that last bit should be quadruplex park

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #44 on:** July 17, 2010, 01:09:25 PM »

Hi MrFluffy

Its not a bad kit ,,, i think all in it cost about £30 ,,,,,,,,,,,, Dave will be shaking his head now

,,,, I have lots more now since i had a very large donation of components and test gear ,, more knobs and doodads than i no what to do with

Hi John

Sounds like you have plenty on the go ,,,, What you planning on making on the lathe ? Photos required

getting into metalwork

This PIC stuff seams to be a must,,,,,,,,,, one day ,,,,i hope .

Regards Rob

Bluechip · « **Reply #45 on:** July 17, 2010, 02:01:57 PM »

Me ?? Shaking me Yedd ??

You get what you want from where you want.

Pay no attention to hard-bitten and disillusioned old farts babbling about Rapid, Farnell, CPC etc. being a lot cheaper.

Despite the fact that we are RIGHT ... as ever ...

Anyway, I've had a splendid day. Cleaned all the crap out of the garage. And the greenhouse.

Now have a squeaky-clean bench, Myford, and WM16 ....

Wonder how long they've been there ?? Also wondering where to get a Fork-Lift to move the Wheelie Bin ??

Dave BC

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #46 on:** July 17, 2010, 02:08:12 PM »

hi Dave

Rob

John Swift · « **Reply #47 on:** July 17, 2010, 05:14:13 PM »

Hi Rob
the first use for the lathe , once its going and I have a feel for it ,
will be to make non standard parts for other projects and coil-formers for my own version of the denco radio coils
thats no longer made .
I may try to use 2mm plugs and sockets to imitate the old octal plugs and sockets

it looks like I will have to get my self a camera to show what I'm upto

Hi Chris
I have just looked at the raynerd web site
I wish I had seen the miller speed control repair link before
it would of saved me from some of the work in tracing my FC250J speed control
some component values are changed for 110v verse 240v operation
and in my case the op amps are powered via dropper resistors instead of the small transformer and voltage regulators
and i don't have the 3rd quad op amp to monitor if the motor is overloaded
but a lot of the circuit is the same

my circuit is on mew & me forum web site

thanks

John Swift

MrFluffy · « **Reply #48 on:** July 18, 2010, 04:26:44 AM »

Quote from: Bluechip on July 17, 2010, 02:01:57 PM

Pay no attention to hard-bitten and disillusioned old farts babbling about Rapid, Farnell, CPC etc. being a lot cheaper.

Despite the fact that we are RIGHT ... as ever ...

Horses for courses though isn't it? I just ordered some AllegroMicro hall sensors from digikey (farnell france had no stock till aug). With shipping from the states + import tax etc (digikey france ships from thief river just the same as the UK does, just the website itself is in the region), four allegro hall sensors ended up costing 30e. From Farnell's the same component order was 45!
Annoyingly close in spec sensors (they were missing the chopper stabilized feature I needed) were on ebay from hong kong, a tenner for 12 inc shipping...

If there had been a walk in shop that sold components, it would have made sense to visit to pick these up and thats where they're handy, run out of kynar wire, nip the shop for the quick win and no delivery charges etc. And can you imagine talking your 12 year old nephew through buying some resistors for a simple project from RS or Farnell's? "Well first you have to create an account..". That's why I'm pleased to see Maplins still doing that , keeps the entry door open for new blood

If your going to be buying a lot of something, definitely mail order is the answer. And surprisingly ebay at times too. If I need something discontinued that is the first place I look now.

raynerd · « **Reply #49 on:** July 18, 2010, 08:25:44 AM »

Quote from: MrFluffy on July 18, 2010, 04:26:44 AM

And surprisingly ebay at times too.

I find that very often, especially sellers in China. You have to wait a while but a fraction of the cost.

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #50 on:** July 18, 2010, 06:02:21 PM »

Hi John

Those are the coils in old radios that go around ferrite rods ..................... I Google'd denco radio coils

,, you making an old style radio ?

A camera is a must we like pickeys

Rob

AdeV · « **Reply #51 on:** July 18, 2010, 06:14:25 PM »

The way into electronics which worked for me, was through old Electronics magazines (Everyday Electronics, Practical Elecronics, EPE after they merged). Stuff from the late '70s through to probably the late '80s is best, because it's all discrete components; by the time the '90s came around, microprocessors were getting cheap & most projects seem to be either mega amplifiers, or microprocessor based.

Not that there's anything wrong with microprocessor electronics mind! It's just a different type of electronics, is all. And you need to write software, of course...

Biggest problem with electronics projects, in my experience, is having the right components on hand. Faced with a 1000 page Farnell (or RS, or Rapid) catalogue, just what _do_ you buy & what do you ignore?

John Swift · « **Reply #52 on:** July 18, 2010, 07:36:39 PM »

Hi Rob ,
I have made a medium wave transistor radio with denco coils in the past
later adding a shortwave converter to the mw radio tuned to 1.6MHz
I would like to have a go with a valve (tube) TRF radio when I have the time

to make the coil former :- drilling a 3/8" dia blind hole in a 1/2" dia 1" long plastic rod ,
then drilling and tapping the last part 6BA , for the adjuster , made from a short ferrite rod or bead glued to a brass 6 BA screw
the basic former then fastend to a diy 8 pin plug - 8 x 0.1" dia pins spaced around 0.7" circle to fit octal valve base
(being long in the tooth I think in feet and inches but can measure in metric
I'll use what ever measuring stick is to hand)

I hope it makes sence , I need to find out how to upload jpegs of sketches without photobucket

madjackghengis · « **Reply #53 on:** July 22, 2010, 08:01:25 AM »

Quote from: Rob.Wilson on July 16, 2010, 01:50:43 PM

Hi and Welcome John

i hope to have my fist flux capacitor and photon torpedo up and running next week ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, Its coming along slowly at the moment i am still playing with resistors and capacitors , Ohms law ,, the basics ,,,,,,,, I hope to do allot more this coming winter ,, i have a few projects in mined
i thought it was my eyes when looking at the colours ,, so i have been checking them with the meter just to make sure ,,, the problem is they are so small and i have to chase them about trying to get hold of them with my sausage fingers ,, then when i drop the dam things i cant fined it, as they are the same colour as the carpet

Thanks for the link and the tips ,,,,,,,,, i have so much to learn

Regards Rob Hi Rob, your best bet is to get new carpet that is a single bland color that isn't the same as any of the components, white is good, but don't walk on it, or it'll get dirty. All jabs aside, we used to drop components on a painted concrete floor when I worked in an electronics burglar alarm company, and we still had a hard time finding the damned parts. Just buy parts in bags of ten and plan on finding the ones you drop when you're not looking for them. mad jack

Do you have any projects on the go at the moment ?

madjackghengis · « **Reply #54 on:** July 22, 2010, 08:44:26 AM »

Hi Rob, I've long had a decent stepper motor I picked up on ebay, and I've got an eight inch rotary table which I want to "digitize", as the crude scratches for marks are hard to be accurate with, and I'm waiting on a cutter to mill the cams of the radial engine I'm building, so I thought I'd find a motor drive kit somewhere, and see about making this stepper motor a permanent part of the rotary table. I worked in electronics for about thirty years too long, never liked it much except the first couple of years when it was all new, and I was building ham radio receivers and transmitters that used tubes, but I got shoved into electronics when I was in the Marines, because I already knew it, and finding a good technician is like finding a good mechanic for your odd and unusual car or tractor. You don't let go, once found. I still know my electronics, but most of my knowledge is geared around antique equipment, as my knowledge of tubes was taken advantage of, as tube theory was no longer taught by the time I went into the field, and all our C-130s we used for refueling, were still using electronics from the thirties and forties. I do know transister theory, and worked with modern electonics, even teaching it while in the Corps, but it's been fifteen years or so since I retired, and I never did really work much with modern electronics, so I'm learning as I go. Eventually, I will convert my Enco bridgeport clone to CNC, and probably a lathe or two, but I've got some learning to do first.
I'm focussing on motor drives to start with, I've also got a nice little atlas shaper I use quite a bit, but down feed while cutting is a bit of a pain, and hard to keep an accurate control of depth, and I think a stepper motor would be an easier "fix" than devising a ratchet drive that works with the down feed in all positions and has feed choices. I've been looking on the web for motor drive kits, and the bug right now is selecting the right one for the motor I already have, but I will be happy to chime in on any other project with any help I can, since I do have a solid understanding of the field of electronics, I'm just not up to date on all the new parts and pieces - the principles and rules haven't changed though, ohm's law still rules, and the new parts are generally easier to understand as a whole, than were the box of parts necessary to do the same job using discrete components. Most of your use of resistors and the like are for control of input current or volts, or for shunting feedback to ground, with all the "work" being done by the integrated circuit, which was once made up out of individual parts and thus finiky demanding components that were complementary. Working on digital equipment is more about logic than electronics theory, and except for power supplies and the like, it's mostly either on or off, which makes digital electronics easier to get into without getting in over your head.
My intent with the rotary table is a stand alone device with the expectation of getting into more advanced work ending up with converting my mill and lathe at some time, and having to learn how to interface with a computer between now and then, and deal with the programing when it comes up. I've built a few Vellman kits including a couple of chopper type motor drives and used them, but it makes more sense going with stepper motors and digital electronics today, than just variable speed, which is all I got from the chopper type motor drives. They are good if all you want is power feed, or movement and are content with a knob to vary the speed, and a switch to start and stop. I did the kits mostly to get my hands back in and get comfortable with the work again, having left it behind for lots of years. I will do a build log on the rotary table, and everything else I do until someone says I'm taking up too much space. Ta ta for now,

mad jack

John Rudd · « **Reply #55 on:** July 22, 2010, 05:26:07 PM »

Quote from: John Swift on July 18, 2010, 07:36:39 PM

Hi Rob ,
I have made a medium wave transistor radio with denco coils in the past
later adding a shortwave converter to the mw radio tuned to 1.6MHz
I would like to have a go with a valve (tube) TRF radio when I have the time

Ahhh.Denco coils... ( Clacton on Sea Essex...

)

Reminds me of when I were a lad reading Gilbert Davey's book 'Fun with Radio'.... a single valve trf receiver using a DF91 ( or IT4 if you like) Happy days...

FWIW, my first ever radio I built was a crystal set that my dad bought me...it needed a soldering iron for assembly..Not deterred by this, I managed to'dry' assemble it and have it work...

John Swift · « **Reply #56 on:** July 22, 2010, 07:07:09 PM »

Hi Jack
   you have not given any details about your stepper motor , is it a unipolar or bipolar motor ?
if you just want to just test the stepper motor out for now
try some thing like the 3187KT bipolar motor driver or 3179KT unipolar motor drive kits from Quasarelectronics.com
with a simple ne555 ic oscillator providing step pulses ( could be a modified audio signal generator kit )

I'm a few steps behind you ,
I have thought my fist step is to provide a variable speed drive to the lead screw
to get a practical feel for the torque and maximum speed of the stepper motors

but first I need to get my old ( new to me ) lathe going first

Hi John ,
   would that be the green octal plug in ones

   those battery radio valves work ok of 3 or 4 9v batterys for the HT supply
you can find scans of the old 90v batterys if you want to make your own

   John Swift

kwackers · « **Reply #57 on:** July 23, 2010, 04:42:13 AM »

Jack, I know you want to make your own - but if it's any help here's one I made earlier...
http://www.cnczone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=47007
There's source in the first post which might help too.

Re: the 90v radio batteries, a few years ago I made one for a guy I knew. Basically just a set of rechargeables and inverter built into the case of an old battery with a socket on the bottom to charge it up. Worked a treat and even losing the space for the inverter it still ran far longer than the original battery.

raynerd · « **Reply #58 on:** July 23, 2010, 05:36:13 AM »

I converted my 4" vertex using Kwackers divider...it is great - http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=2242.0

John Rudd · « **Reply #59 on:** July 23, 2010, 07:17:49 AM »

Quote from: John Swift on July 22, 2010, 07:07:09 PM

Hi John ,
would that be the green octal plug in ones

those battery radio valves work ok of 3 or 4 9v batterys for the HT supply
you can find scans of the old 90v batterys if you want to make your own

John Swift

Ummm.I though they used the B9A plug/socket arrangement...?

John Swift · « **Reply #60 on:** July 23, 2010, 08:46:51 AM »

Hi John ,
they had both types
B9A base coils was for transistor circuits , OC44 , OC45 , AF116 etc
early mullard transistors use the same number system used on their valves ( O = no heater , C = triode )

octal base coils for valve circuits , but usefull for fets as well

it all comes flooding back

John Swift · « **Reply #61 on:** July 23, 2010, 09:49:37 AM »

Hi Kwackers and Craynerd ,

thanks for the web links the info is very usefull

with refrence to testing speed controller boards
the FC250 board looks like a cut down version of the FC350 board on the mini-millers
I will post the FC250 circuit i have traced from the pcb , if some one needs it ( 240v version )

with blown fuses and a dead controller , try the simple tests I have used on a mini-lathe speed control

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #62 on:** August 01, 2010, 05:06:35 AM »

Hi Mad Jack

Did you fined a driver for your R/T project ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, fitting a stepper to a shaper is a good mix old and new

Rob

John Stevenson · « **Reply #63 on:** August 01, 2010, 05:20:20 AM »

Yabut fitting two steppers to a shaper is real cool.
You fit one to the bed travel, call that X, and one to a rotary table mounted vertically, call that A.

Now stick a 40 degree or 29 degree vee shaped tool in the holder and a disk in the rotab.

Every time the tool retracts you move X and A at the same time, result is you now have one tooth of a spur gear that has been generated into a perfect involute. One 50 pence tool, easily made and sharpened will cut any size gear in that range.

John S.

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #64 on:** August 01, 2010, 05:26:14 AM »

Quote from: John Stevenson on August 01, 2010, 05:20:20 AM

Yabut fitting two steppers to a shaper is real cool.
You fit one to the bed travel, call that X, and one to a rotary table mounted vertically, call that A.

Now stick a 40 degree or 29 degree vee shaped tool in the holder and a disk in the rotab.

Every time the tool retracts you move X and A at the same time, result is you now have one tooth of a spur gear that has been generated into a perfect involute. One 50 pence tool, easily made and sharpened will cut any size gear in that range.

John S.

now there's at thought John

Rob

John Swift · « **Reply #65 on:** October 17, 2010, 02:00:33 PM »

Hi Rob ,
just incase your interested

In the November EPE magazine (out now) , the 2010 Teach-in series has just started

Decembers issue out 11 November will have a 12v motor speed control / lamp dimmer

the PDF magazine can be downloaded via epemag3.com (12 issues for $19-99)

for now I,ll have to stop the mods to my lathe and use it !!!!!

I,ve made a few mistakes like removing the old bearings before I had received the new roller bearings
and had to re assemble it to make some new spacers !!

the last test comfirmed I can now part off without the workpeice trying to climb onto the tool

John

Rob.Wilson · « **Reply #66 on:** October 17, 2010, 02:24:09 PM »

Hi John

Thanks for the heads up ,,, i will have a look

Its starting to get cold so working in the warm is starting to look good now

Good to here you have the lathe sorted

now what you going to make

Rob

madjackghengis · « **Reply #67 on:** October 29, 2010, 09:46:32 AM »

Rob, I had the same notion with some wiper motors from surplus, I built a couple of the Vellman kits, both worked real well, were good designs, and easy to build. As was said above, all you need is a 25 watt soldering iron, some good solder, find the 63/37 tin-lead alloy, it's much the best, and sixteenth inch is the size you want for electronics, and keeping the iron tip clean while soldering, and dripping solder while not is of the utmost importance in the life of your iron. I use a light dimmer switch built into an electrical box meant for four sockets, and use a cover with two sockets and the other half has a slot for a switch. I cut the connection between the two sockets on one side, so one socket is full wall voltage, and have the light dimmer switch controlling the other socket, so you can reduce the heat on the iron, they tend to be hotter than necessary, and will burn through tips if they are not regulated. It's a lot cheaper than buying a "regulated soldering iron" which can cost well over a hundred bucks here, I don't know what that translates to there, but I bet it's too much there too. a cheap cellulose sponge, kept damp in a jar lid, is good for wiping off the tip just before soldering, and cleaning off the burnt flux after soldering, before retinning, and setting it aside. I keep a roll of eighth inch solder just for tinning the tip, to save the good stuff for the board. I hope this helps you pick out the cheap stuff, and get a good job done with it.

mad jack

John Swift · « **Reply #68 on:** October 29, 2010, 11:11:53 AM »

Hi Madjack ,

I agree with you

velleman kits are good
the pcb's with the solder resist layer are easy to solder
back in 2002 , I built the K7105 lcd 'scope that worked first time

a long time ago I built a very simple soldering Iron saver
an idea in a 1970's copy of "practical wireless" i think

using a modified switched socket
a 1N4004 diode across the switch kept the iron warm (on halfwave dc )
closing the switch the iron rapidly heated up

regulated iron are a bit expensive for hobby use
the weller wtcp 50 I have is about £ 140 now
most of the time I use a 18w antex iron and 0.7mm 60 /40 solder

John

AdeV · « **Reply #69 on:** October 29, 2010, 01:47:19 PM »

John,

If you don't mind Chinese tools, Farnell do a range of very cheap soldering stations: http://uk.farnell.com/duratool/1296771-5090726-1467280/kit-soldering-st-wire-cleaner-uk/dp/1737234

I bought two of those (because they were so cheap) and some spare parts, only used one of them so far & very happy with it!

John Swift · « **Reply #70 on:** October 29, 2010, 02:19:06 PM »

Hi Ade ,

looks good

if i didn't have the weller iron all ready

I would be tempted , the 1mm and 3mm bits it will do most of the jobs I do

with 2 irons you can use one for lead / tin solder and the other for the hard to use lead free !

Antex do bits for SMT work thats not too expensive

not that I get much practice , to need them just yet

John

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