Author Topic: Ball turning tutorial?  (Read 16421 times)

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Ball turning tutorial?
« on: February 26, 2010, 05:56:54 PM »
So I'm new here and very impressed with everything. This ball turning thing has me going. I want to do some for knife and dagger pommels. I saw the one for rounds but is there a tutorial for the other shapes????. I will be making the tool soon but plan to put it on a quick change tool post.
Always a Student

Offline rleete

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Country: us
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #1 on: February 26, 2010, 07:03:33 PM »
Divided He ad (Ralph) is the king of turning fancy shapes.  His posting is kind of sporadic, so it may be a day or two before he sees and replies.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #2 on: February 28, 2010, 06:32:25 PM »
Whey hey!! Hi Roger  :wave: Sporadic Ralph has made an appearance  :D



Hi Larry  :wave:   

If you want a vid' I'll be happy to make one  :) 

If it was my video that led you here (awesome :thumbup: ) then you will probably have found Steve Bedairs site to help with the building/design?  There is also my project log on the building of a mini version of the ball turner around here somewhere.... Search and ye shall find  :thumbup:


I can also help you with the set up and understanding of the tool itself. I've been using it for a few years now and think I've pretty much worked it all out since the first outings where I made some great looking metal acorns!  :lol:


I've got some stuff to make soon, but mostly small and fiddly....so I'll chuck up some larger stock, set up the camera and see if I can't make an informative vid'?


Any shapes in particular or do you just want a straight forward vid' of me making random shapes in a bar? 




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #3 on: February 28, 2010, 08:02:25 PM »
A video would be great. I plan to use it to make guard spacers and pommel/but caps for swords and daggers. I plan some damascus letter openers and would like to do some fittings for them too. I bought a kit and turned some wood handles but I know I can do better for the fittings. Rounds and cones with some other shapes that would work. Some of the ones in the fishermans friend look great. I got some pommels a friend uses on his swords and will get a pict tomorrow.

I have been hanging with some guys at the streetcar museum shop and when I told them about the tool they pulled out 2. One was in a box with 2 tool holders and would do up to a 5"ball. The other was never used but was smaller and could probably do up to a 1" ball. It could set in a quick change tool post. The small one has never been used. The other has seen some work. I think making one is in my near future.
Help with the set up and understanding of the tool itself would be great.

I also plan to do some sand castings in bronze and would like to have a machine finish on them.
Looking forward to seeing how it's done.
« Last Edit: February 28, 2010, 08:09:17 PM by Nowicki »
Always a Student

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #4 on: March 02, 2010, 09:49:32 PM »
Here are 2 pommels but more shapes would be nice. This is just a start.



Larry
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #5 on: March 03, 2010, 02:14:58 PM »
Hi Larry,   


I'll have a go at a vid' before the weekend.... Should get one done?

A radius turner that produces a 5" ball!!! That's got to be on a fair size lathe?  Mine will manage up to a 50mm ball, bout 2" at it's max..... Trying any more will hit the turret and/or not allow the tool ppost to be gripped securely enough.

Bout the smallest I've managed is 2mm. But the tool tip has quite a radius on it so you can't really get into the collar at such a size. I've still yet to make a tip holder/tool post for the little tips like the ones I used in the mini ball turner, they would allow for a lot tighter curves.


Bronze cut easily enough with it too.... I assume there is a thread in the pommels?  I use threaded arbours for most of the blank holding when making balls etc, or I have other types of arbours for parts that are bored through.

Anyway, that can all be discussed when you have your turner made  :thumbup:



Nice looking handles there too. Are the pommels hand cut.... I mean turning both hand wheels to gain the curve?

I like the faceted one too.... I was looking into that type of finish a little while back.




Right, got to go..... Might try some recording tonight?  :dremel:







Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #6 on: March 03, 2010, 05:07:34 PM »
Fail.... Well the dead camera batteries are on charge now anyway!!  Maybe tomorrow eve' I don't think I've much planned?!
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2010, 11:39:50 AM »
I got some picts of their tool but cannot figure how to get them off my phone. My kids will be here later so I'll get one of them to do it.
I'll probably start my tool later tonight.

Larry
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2010, 05:20:51 PM »
Quote
My kids will be here later so I'll get one of them to do it. I'll probably start my tool later tonight.

 :lol:  You sound like my dad!!  Although your tag says you are only a "junior member"!   :scratch:  :)



I'll have a vid' of some random shapes by Sunday I should think.... I got a bit distracted today. Still workshop related but no fun n fancy shaping  ::)




Good luck on the build..... Photographs are mandatory obviously  :worthless:   :thumbup:








Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline rleete

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 535
  • Country: us
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #9 on: March 04, 2010, 07:44:25 PM »
I got a bit distracted today.

Shiny stuff?  Happens to me all the time.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #10 on: March 04, 2010, 08:34:01 PM »
I may be a junior member but I have been around this stuff for a while now. I have recently been working on fit and finish so that's why I have been getting into machining.  I started doing some blacksmithing for the guys at the streetcar museum and they are teaching me to use the mills and lathes among other things. It's great to have access to the tools to make the tooling I need for my tools.

I got the base milled but will not get to cutting the dovetails for it to fit the tool post holder till maybe tomorrow. I'm demonstrating at a hammer in next weekend http://www.baltimoreknife.com/brimstone/hammerin2010/artists1a.htm  and found out today some of the guys who were bringing forges cannot so I will be taking two or three of mine. I was already planning to take my diesel forge/foundry now I'll have a propane and coal one there too.

Anyway here is what I got for it so far. Base is aluminum, tool holder is 4140, holder swivel pin was a piece of iron fence. I put one of the pommels on the vice for reference. Like I said more profiles would be great.

Got to get some sleep, work in 3 1/2  hours.

Larry
Always a Student

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #11 on: March 04, 2010, 09:09:29 PM »
I figured how to get the pict off my phone myself. Kids aren't home yet.
For reference the silver in the center of the radius of the tool holder is a quarter.

I'll get a pict of the lathe it fits later
« Last Edit: March 04, 2010, 09:11:57 PM by Nowicki »
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #12 on: March 06, 2010, 08:43:34 AM »
Quote
Shiny stuff?  Happens to me all the time.
I likes shiny  :)


The Jr ref. is just something I laugh about with most forums..... Specially when you can see from the photo's there is skilled work going on  :thumbup:

Looks like you've got a plan and are marching into it... On a fairly large machine! (my machines are only babies).



I'm looking at that radius turner (massive!) and wondering if it can do concave easily?  It looks to be a convex/external curve maker only? Or is that other cutter holding piece something to do with that?

If your copying that then I don't think much of what I can show/make will be relevant?

But then looking at the stack of materials, it looks like your aiming at something like Steve Bedairs version?



I looked at the link to the Hammer-in.... Sounds like fun  :headbang:  I don't know of anything quite like that over here?

Shame really, cause I do like the smithing stuff.... Watched a load of videos of people making various stuff and have plans to attempt some training someday.... Although that could be a few years off!! Was wondering if the old colour blindness would affect me much too?



Anyway..... Off to the workshop for a bit now.... See if I can't make something worth looking at?




Ralph.


« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 03:33:10 PM by Divided he ad »
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #13 on: March 07, 2010, 09:43:21 AM »
Well when I was measuring and getting ready to mill the slot to mount the tool on the tool post i had an idea. Just a little mod but when I figure it out I post something.
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #14 on: March 07, 2010, 03:56:10 PM »
Well I finally done my bit!

Took 8 times longer to compile and edit than make the part  :doh:


Hope this is what you wanted Larry?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbvOb-tTNyc


Still processing at this time so it's gonna be poor quality for about an hour after I post this.




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #15 on: March 07, 2010, 08:13:27 PM »
Great , That's exactly what I was looking for. I'm sure it will take me a few tries but I'll get the hang if it. Some nice damascus or wrought iron pieces would be great. I might be making some bronzed cable too. That is some cool looking stuff.
I didn't finish the tool yet. Had to play lumber jack . Trees came down on the wires at the street car museum and they cannot run till they are removed. I was one of the guys with the chain saw 60 ft up in the air. That is done but getting ready for Fire and Brimstone will take up the rest of my week so I won't get back to tool making till next week. I'll keep you posted as soon as I get it done.

Larry
« Last Edit: March 07, 2010, 08:42:31 PM by Nowicki »
Always a Student

Offline ieezitin

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 676
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #16 on: March 08, 2010, 08:43:14 AM »
Ralph

Let me say your videos are well made, you capture and hold the studentís attention while a nice sound track helps you absorb the information.

I am a fanatical believer in sharing and teaching knowledge.

I realize that was a time consuming endeavor, your effort deserves a large thank you from all who views the tutorial.

All the best and Thanks for your time.               Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Country: gb
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #17 on: March 08, 2010, 09:43:20 AM »
Ralph - Excellent video  :bow: :bow:, you make it look really easy, I'm sure it's more difficult than that in reality!  :bow: :bow:

I've got to make me one of those...
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline CrewCab

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 852
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #18 on: March 08, 2010, 01:54:00 PM »
Sporadic Ralph  :clap:  nice work with the video ........... as ever  :smart:

Good to hear from you too   :thumbup:

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #19 on: March 08, 2010, 02:49:30 PM »
Larry, 
very happy it helps  :ddb:  I'll help you get it set up if need be, no need making acorn shapes unless intended eh? I'm gonna be very envious when the fancy steels and bronzes come out to play  :headbang:


Anthony,   

thank you. Much appreciated  :beer:  Firm believer in the help (if I can) where needed philosophy too  :thumbup:


Ade,

thank you. Easy, pretty much is after you've used it for a while.... I would have to change the machining order if I did it again though, machine the last convex before the smaller one on the end.... It was a bit of a headache holding it once I'd altered the end bit.

What you don't really see in the video is me keeping the tool set and switching the workpiece round to machine the other side of it to exactly the same radius... That's what the 3 lines were for, a centre line and then the spacings either side to stop me entering the bit needed for the (imaginary, cause I don't have one) knife tang to pass through.
 
You'll never regret having the tool at your disposal, I use it on all sorts of stuff.... Never tried it on a sump though  :dremel:   (links for plans etc on the video)



CC,

  :wave:  Glad you like it  :thumbup:  I've not been far away.... Just pre-occupied  :coffee:




It's getting a good response on youtube too  :)


Well, I'm going to go and get my tea and let my head deflate a bit  :headbang:




Thanks again all for the very kind words  :thumbup:





Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Country: gb
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #20 on: March 08, 2010, 03:34:43 PM »
Ralph - this picture explains why I got into machining:



It's supposed to look like it is in the top left corner; but, as you can see from the other pictures, it's broken... It's a shower head mount, supposedly it allows the head to swivel to any position. Unfortunately, it was cast out of some really useless metal, which has corroded, then snapped clean in two.

So... I bought a milling machine, but really what I needed was a lathe... so I bought a lathe.... now what I needed was a ball turning tool, but haven't got that far yet. The ruler's in there to prove that I really did need a 6.5" lathe, not some little Myford-sized thing  :) Erm, that's not right is it  :scratch:  :lol:
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #21 on: March 08, 2010, 06:51:27 PM »
Ade,

I see.... So, how's the sump post doing?  :lol:


Sounds like you covered all the bases with your choice of machines too..... Well, look where you are with them now  :)




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5197
  • Country: us
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #22 on: March 08, 2010, 09:32:01 PM »
Moved to the 'How tos' Section since this has become quite the tutorial on ball turning. Excellent video Ralph!

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #23 on: March 09, 2010, 03:23:35 AM »
Cheers Chief.... Figured that may happen sooner or later  :thumbup: 

Glad you like the vid' too  :)






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Pelallito

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 89
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #24 on: March 10, 2010, 01:26:15 PM »
Ralph,
If they have hammer ins over there, these guys- http://www.britishblades.com/forums/forum.php can probably tell you where they happen. Lots of friendly, talented people over there.
Regards,
Fred

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #25 on: March 10, 2010, 06:28:17 PM »
Hi Fred  :wave:  Long time no see  :)

Your kind of stuff this ehh?  You should have a good chat with Larry  :thumbup:


Thanks for the link, I'll have a good look at it when my eyes arn't quite so heavy  ::)





Ralph.






Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline madjackghengis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 720
  • big engine
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #26 on: March 25, 2010, 11:05:17 AM »
I've got to say, this is the best ball turning demonstration I've seen, the simplest set up, easiest to align, set up to spec, and start turning, and one of the best methods of putting the power right over the strongest part of the lathe bed while working.  I've had lots of plans, and looked at many ideas, but this is the ball turning setup I am going to replicate.  It's almost too simple to be true, but most of the time, a difficult question gets the simplest answer.  I am taken!! thanks much for the video and the idea  Mad Jack :thumbup:

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #27 on: March 25, 2010, 02:34:24 PM »
Hi Mad Jack,

Glad you like the vid'  :thumbup: This is in my opinion as in yours a very simple and awesome tool.

It was the first tool I made with and for my lathe and I've never wanted another version of radius turner since.

All the links for Steve Bedair's plans etc are in my video descriptions on my youtube pages. The only things I changed were the depth of the base, the steps on the turret and the tip design.

All the tip info is in the "mini ball turner" thread I did a while back. I think it's in project logs?








Ralph.


I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #28 on: March 25, 2010, 07:22:53 PM »
I got the turret done and cut the base to go on my plunge. The turret is larger than the one I was going to use, 3". I plowed off some of the radius on one side so the set screws don't have to go through as much metal The base turned out fine but for not taking into account the base and turret would be almost parallel to the tail center. When I went to measure the height of the tool holder I can only do a ball about 1/4". I'll be modifying the base to ride alongside the plunge to give room for the tool holder. Haven't decided weather I will heat and bend a piece of bar stock, cut and weld the pieces or mill and bolt one together. I'm leaning toward bending the stock but not sure if I can make the bends right.
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #29 on: March 25, 2010, 09:22:30 PM »
Hi Larry,

are you talking about bending bar stock for the tool tip holder ?

I would be careful if that is the case, it might change the properties of the metal and make it do odd and possibly dangerous things?

If you're talking about the handle then it's not so bad.


I made my tool tip holder from an old piece of garage door. The lifting arm, 50mm square and 12mm thick.



The height sure would be limiting if a 1/4" ball is all it can achieve! Hope you can remedy that one easily?  :dremel: 




Just wanting all tools to be safe  :thumbup:





Looks like your having fun designing it around your machine though  :)







Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #30 on: April 11, 2010, 04:38:45 PM »
I finally got back to it a little. Decided to mount ti to the base of the plunge. It works better that way. I haven't made the handle yet but it is on the menu for when I get back from vacation.
« Last Edit: April 11, 2010, 05:10:17 PM by Nowicki »
Always a Student

Offline George Greer

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 17
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #31 on: May 22, 2010, 12:11:08 AM »
Ralph,

That vid was a great tutoral...now I see how they work.

Now, when my mill finally gets here and I get it set up...I'll be making one of these....

Thanks, George :nrocks:

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #32 on: May 22, 2010, 06:39:27 PM »
Happy you found it of some use George. That's why I made all of the turning vid's. To show and help people  :)


We will I'm sure all look forward to a few pic'c of the build and use of your version  :thumbup:



Now then, how long do vacations last over there? Larry.... What's the result?   :poke:  How many footballs (rugby for us guys)  have you made?  :lol:  I made a good 4-5 before I figured out how to set it up correctly!   







Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Nowicki

  • Jr. Member
  • **
  • Posts: 18
    • Nowicki Custom Knives
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #33 on: May 23, 2010, 10:10:35 AM »
I got real sick when I got back. They put me on a real strong antibiotic. 8 days in I developed an allergic reaction to it and started into shock. Was put on steroids and antihistamines... lost 13 lbs in 3 days. I wanted to loose some weight but don't recommend this way to anybody.
I'm on the mend but things are real busy at the farm so I haven't had much time to work in the shop. I did get a little ahead of myself. Didn't wait to drill and tap the handle, just used a pair of vicegrips. I turned a round on the end of a 1 1/4 " piece of scrap 4140. The grips hit the stock so I couldn't do the full ball. It is going to take a couple tries but this is going to work great.


Larry
Always a Student

Offline Divided he ad

  • WARNING: LIKES SHINEY THINGS
  • The Collective
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1957
  • Country: gb
  • Between Chester, Wrexham, ruthin & Holywell :-)
Re: Ball turning tutorial?
« Reply #34 on: May 23, 2010, 07:27:02 PM »
Sounds like you've been having a blast!!!  :bugeye:


All on the mend now though, good stuff :thumbup:


Looks like you've got it working.  When you get back to it I'm sure you'll share the pic's. Top result so far  :clap:




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!