Author Topic: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw  (Read 43113 times)

Offline Rog02

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1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« on: September 12, 2008, 02:42:10 PM »
A few weeks ago I was driving down the street and spotted this setting in a "Garage Sale".  I slammed on the brakes and backed upped to the driveway.  Upon inspection it turned out to be a complete and functioning band saw.  I inquired about the price and the guy said "$25?" as if he was asking a fortune and wasn't sure the saw was worth that much.  I pulled out my billfold and passed him the cash so fast his head was spinning.  "I think I might have priced that too cheap?" he says.
"Yep, you did." I says, as I am beginning to take the saw apart for transport to the super secret R&D Dept. of T&E Technology. 

After I get the saw apart and settled into the trunk of my Saturn SC-2 (yes, it is the 1 ton model) the previous owner tells me the saw was purchased new by his father "after he got home from the service" and had been used to butcher deer at the family hunting camp in the Ozarks.  After the father passed away the family sold that property and the saw had sat in the owners basement for the past 30 years without being used.  As it turned out what I thought was saw dust migrating out of the saw was actually mummified whitetail deer DNA (necessitating a complete vacuuming of the trunk once unloaded).

The owners grandkid had graffiti'd the saw with his airbrush and the saw shows the usual 59 years of abuse and neglect but is completely intact right down to the OEM Delta 1/2 HP motor.

The motor pictured is a TEFC 1/2 HP I was checking for fit.


An OEM "Open Stand" complete with the factory "Delta Bugle Bolts"


The table shows a patina of rust but no pitting so it should clean and wax OK.


The original factory Serial Number tag.  The serial number shows the saw was built in late 1949.


The current plan is to dis-assemble the saw, strip to metal and repaint original Delta blue-gray.  While I am at it I will also replace the tires with some of the new generation urethane units as they offer better wear resistance. 

Since I do metal work mostly I will need to slow the blade speed way down from the 2200 FPM this is set up for and add some way of adjusting speeds for various metals.  The present plan is to build up another "treadmill motor power package" and making the saw electronically variable speed. 

It should be a fun project.  This is one of those times when rebuilding a machine should prove economically viable as the equivalent band saw would cost in excess of $2,000 today.
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2008, 03:59:10 PM »
Wow! That is a nice find you got there. I am anxious to see the restoration and modernization of this piece.

Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #2 on: September 14, 2008, 12:39:27 AM »
I got some free time Friday evening and decided to try something I was told at the coffee shop.  I had commented to an acquaintance that I was rebuilding a band saw and his suggestion was instead of sanding the table with 600 wet/dry and penetrating oil, I should first scrape the rust off with a razor blade and then use penetrating oil and a scotch brite pad (medium grit maroon).  He swore I would be pleasantly surprised with the results.

I followed his suggestion and was indeed pleasantly surprised with how easy the rust came off. 

Before:


After 5 minutes scraping and a few minutes scrubbing the right side of the table with a Scotch Brite Pad.


I will probably still end up wet sanding the table to get the detail I prefer, but for a few minutes work the table is now easily usable.

Saturday morning I spent a few hours stripping, cleaning and generally detailing the blade guides.  Sorry I did not get any pictures of that, as the rain kept me from running back to the house for the camera. 

The blade guides on these old Deltas are a micrometer type adjuster and fortunately were still movable.  I dis-assembled them and again using penetrating oil and Scotch Brite Pad I cleaned years of rust and mummified Bambi DNA from the Zamack castings.  The steel parts all cleaned up nicely and the assemblies worked like silk when re-assembled on the frame.

So far, so good!  I got a bit out of sequence for my usual rebuild.  I normally start by refinishing the stand.  I like to get the stand done first so that I have it ready to hold the machine as I progress.  I have scratched fresh paint trying to dismount a machine from an unfinished stand and have learned from that mistake.  On machines that come to me without a stand I design and build that first so the machine will have a comfortable place to sit during restoration.
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #3 on: September 21, 2008, 11:12:46 PM »
OK!  Time for this weeks installment of "As The Nut Turns". 

First I need to catch up on the pictures of one of last weeks projects, stripping and cleaning the upper and lower blade guides.






Now for this weekends episode! 
As I stated before I prefer to begin all my restorations by refinishing or building the stand first.  It is nice to have a finished place for the parts to be re-assembled without having to worry about scratching things trying to mount a freshly painted machine.

As it was.  I remembered to snap this shot just before I pulled the last bolts.  The rust and stains are from 59 years of neglect and abuse.

Bugle Bolts.  These are the infamous Delta "Bugle bolts".  As Delta no longer use or supply these I am fortunate that all 16 are present and accounted for.  I clean hardware by dropping it in a vibratory filled with walnut hull and let it run until clean.  After the rust is gone I will paint the heads with aluminum paint mixed with a bit of semi gloss agent to replicate the OEM zinc finish.


After sand blast and first coat of Rust-O-Leum Medium Gray.  I am not totally satisfied with the finish after this coat so I will probably color sand the parts again and re-coat.  The rust pits are showing a bit more than I like.



Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #4 on: September 22, 2008, 09:19:44 AM »
Lookin' nice Rog02. :thumbup:

 Don't get me wrong here but isn't that a bit over board when you say you don't want to scratch the paint. You are going to use the machine right? So it might get a bit dirty and a scratch here and there then.

The saw looks nice and sturdy too. Nothing looks cheaply built. It'll be nice to see what it'll look like when done though.

Bernd
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #5 on: September 23, 2008, 01:34:25 AM »
Lookin' nice Rog02. :thumbup:

 Don't get me wrong here but isn't that a bit over board when you say you don't want to scratch the paint. You are going to use the machine right? So it might get a bit dirty and a scratch here and there then.

Following that reasoning, why do laundry and mend the tears in your drawers?  Your clothes are just going to get dirty and smelly again! ???

Wear and tear on equipment is inevitable.  That is why I am only doing a "50 foot paint job" with Rust-O-Leum instead of sending out to the paint shop and having him trick it out with some sort of outlandish flame job.  Tricked out paint on things like shop equipment can come up to bite you should you ever decide to sell or trade.  I know of one shop that painted all of it's equipment in a rather distinctive "artistic" scheme (the owner's kid was an art major).  Seems that when they needed to upgrade one of the press brakes, the dealers all deducted various amounts from the value as it was going to require a complete re-spray in order to make the machine marketable again.

With this restoration I expect the saw to deliver another 50 years of service or more. 

Call it "pride of ownership", "pride of ability", or whatever, but shops that do top end work are always clean, well lit, and well equipped.  My clients rather expect the shop to be neat and orderly.  I guess they think if they are going to trust someone to fiddle with their $100,000+ pride and joy, they expect the shop to appear that their pride and joy will enjoy its stay. 

Quote
The saw looks nice and sturdy too. Nothing looks cheaply built. It'll be nice to see what it'll look like when done though.

Bernd

Probably why they still use the basic design for the industrial saws sold today.  These saws were introduced in the 1930 and with minor changes to things like knobs and paint color they are pretty much the same today as then.  Even the imports use the same basic design, substituting mystery metal for the aged cast iron Delta used.  My ideal saw is still a 16" Walker/Turner like the one I restored for a friend last year. 

I recently attended an auction for a friends cabinet shop that was closing after 60 years.  A slightly newer BS was on the bill of sale.  I watched it with some interest as the bid went to $450.  My friend told me his father had bought that saw when my friend joined the business shortly after the Korean War (1954).  My buddy told me the first thing he did was build the plywood stand it sat on from scraps left over around the shop.  He stated they did not want the factory stand that Delta offered because it would put the saw at an uncomfortable working height for their short stature.  The saw had been in daily use since that time with the only downtime being to replace the tires and belts a few times over the years.  The new owner stated that his intent was to build a box to raise the saw up to a suitable height for his 6'2" height and put it to work come the following Monday.

Roger
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #6 on: September 23, 2008, 09:10:46 AM »
After sand blast and first coat of Rust-O-Leum Medium Gray.  I am not totally satisfied with the finish after this coat so I will probably color sand the parts again and re-coat.  The rust pits are showing a bit more than I like.

Hey Rog! it is looking nice so far. On that quote above... Have you thought about re-striping it and using a self etching primer first?

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #7 on: September 23, 2008, 09:25:48 AM »
Call it "pride of ownership", "pride of ability", or whatever, but shops that do top end work are always clean, well lit, and well equipped.  My clients rather expect the shop to be neat and orderly.  I guess they think if they are going to trust someone to fiddle with their $100,000+ pride and joy, they expect the shop to appear that their pride and joy will enjoy its stay. 

Didn't realize you were running a shop. Got any pics of your shop to share?

Your right, if the tooling looks nice and shop is clean I would feel comfortable in having my car worked on.

As Eric asked in the next thread. Are you going to give it the orginal stripping?

Bernd
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #8 on: September 23, 2008, 09:30:30 AM »

Call it "pride of ownership", "pride of ability", or whatever, but shops that do top end work are always clean, well lit, and well equipped.  My clients rather expect the shop to be neat and orderly.  I guess they think if they are going to trust someone to fiddle with their $100,000+ pride and joy, they expect the shop to appear that their pride and joy will enjoy its stay. 


What kind of shop do you run? $100k pride and joys... I am gonna guess hotrods?

Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #9 on: September 23, 2008, 01:41:46 PM »
To answer the multiple questions in order:
Quote
Hey Rog! it is looking nice so far. On that quote above... Have you thought about re-striping it and using a self etching primer first?
Eric

I did etch it first with phosphoric acid to kill the rust bloom, followed by a coat of Rust-O-Leum clean metal primer.  I think you are referring to a high build primer which is common in automotive refinish.  As for restripping?  The short answer is, NO!  The first step was to blast the metal clean with an abrasive media.  I used "Black Beauty" (pulverized coal slag) because it cuts so fast and I had a 40 pound sack given to me.  The sharp particles not only cut paint and rust quickly but lacking the proper protective gear (remember I do fab work, not media blasting) it hurts like hell, makes a mess and is generally an unpleasant way to spend a Saturday morning.
I will re-sand it and give it another coat and call that good.  The paint job is a "50 Footer" meaning that it looks good from a distance but close inspection will show defects.  In this case since the saw is 59 years old and this is a rebuild more than a restoration I will consider the remaining rust divets in the paint as provenance of it's age and authenticity.

Quote
Didn't realize you were running a shop. Got any pics of your shop to share?
Your right, if the tooling looks nice and shop is clean I would feel comfortable in having my car worked on.
As Eric asked in the next thread. Are you going to give it the orginal stripping?
Bernd

Yes I do work for clients.  I returned to school and got my degree in engineering after spending the first 30 plus years of my life as a mechanic/certified welder/fabricator/licensed aircraft mechanic and now a licensed Mechanical Engineer doing contract work in the fields of aviation and custom manufacturing. 

Quote
What kind of shop do you run? $100k pride and joys... I am gonna guess hotrods?
Eric

My shop is kind of a self supporting hobby nowadays, as I do not make my sole income from work done there.  Bad habits and stubbornness keep me doing sheet metal work and some chassis repair for race cars and the occasional odd fabrication job for an engineering client. 

I do work on hot rods, antique and classic automotive restorations, the odd sprint car and drag car chassis modification or repair, and experimental/classic aircraft.  I have also been known to build fiberglass molds for prototype parts and one of a kind creations.

One of the nice things about having multiple income streams is the ability to refuse work that does not interest me or that I do not have confidence in.  Basically I adopted a philosophy of "It ain't fun, I ain't doing it!" or to quote an acquaintance "Life is too short to struggle needlessly."
Roger
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #10 on: September 25, 2008, 07:19:39 PM »
Quote
One of the nice things about having multiple income streams is the ability to refuse work that does not interest me or that I do not have confidence in.  Basically I adopted a philosophy of "It ain't fun, I ain't doing it!" or to quote an acquaintance "Life is too short to struggle needlessly."
Well I would say lucky man, but it's quite clear you have worked your way upto this result so instead I'll say I envy your position  :)

The saw is looking good enough from here, I'm 4ft from the monitor  ;)



Keep us up to date,


Ralph.
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #11 on: September 25, 2008, 08:35:00 PM »
In today's installment of "As The Nut Turns":

I mentioned using a vibratory and walnut hull to clean hardware in an earlier post.  I have a couple of small vibratory cleaners (commonly used to clean ammunition brass before reloading) that I picked up at an estate sale for a couple of dollars each.  One is filled with "plastic media" and the other one is filled with walnut hull.  I use these for cleaning small carburetor parts and other small trim parts around the shop.  The abrasive media is available from Harbor Freight.  "Plastic Media" is small pyramids of some type of resin with a fine abrasive mixed in that is used for corrosion and to de-burr parts.  You need to use water with the plastic media similar to wet sanding.  The walnut hull cleans and polishes surface patina. Walnut hull needs to be kept dry.

For those in the UK you might look around some lapidary supply places for the small vibrators.  The rolling tumbler polishers will work as well but I have heard from some silversmiths that extremely delicate parts can be damaged if too little abrasive is used.


Before and after examples of parts cleaned in the vibrator.




These small parts are the table trunnion castings and the blade tension adjuster.  The parts are die cast Zamack (a zinc/aluminum alloy) and the original paint was peeling off  due to the lack of surface prep.  I simply wire brushed the old paint off, masked off any moving surfaces and degree scale then prepped with an ultra fine Scotch Brite pad (gray pad). 


Here is a trick!  I keep a package of bamboo skewers around the shop to use as painting and hand polishing sticks.  The idea is to tape one to the part and use it to handle the part while airbrushing then sticking the skewer in a bucket of sand to let the paint dry.  For parts that have no masking to tape to, I wrap several turns of masking tape around the skewer and then thread it into a bolt hole.  I find that by taping small parts to the skewers I have better control than by hanging them up and having them blow around.  I hate trying to paint moving targets. 


In case you are wondering why the silver paint in the photo, it is the under coat of a two coat urethane process.  The top coat is a tinted clear that will flash off leaving a silver gray finish that should wear well.
Roger
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #12 on: September 29, 2008, 11:00:19 AM »
In this episode of "As The Nut Turns"

This past weekend was the NASCAR race at Kansas so I did not get to spend any time working on the band saw.  I was pretty much occupied Thursday through Sunday morning with customers and suppliers that were in town for the race.  The food was good, but after Saturdays race I was ready to get back to the shop.  I went to a hospitality event Sunday morning and then came home and watched Sundays race on TV. 
Next weekend promises to be busy as well, as a large machine shop is auctioning off their inventory and the "Muscle Car Reunion" is at the old KCIR Dragway.

The table trunnions, blade tension/tracking adjuster, and blade guide assemblies, refinished and ready to be re-installed.


Mr. Bump from the Inspection Dept. gives his final approval to the hardware card. :thumbup:


With any luck I will get a full day work on the saw this week.  I haven't had a chance to re-coat the stand parts yet and haven't done anything to the frame castings.
Roger
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #13 on: September 29, 2008, 11:54:33 AM »
I have an 'el cheapo' tumbler that I picked up from Harbor Freight. I use both the walnut shells and the resin media. Gotta say for a cheap purchase I am very pleased with the results. Instead of wasting time with the blast cabinet I can do other work while it is spinning away. I haven't put any delicate parts in it yet so i can neither confirm nor deny how it does with those.

Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #14 on: September 29, 2008, 12:32:52 PM »
I have an 'el cheapo' tumbler that I picked up from Harbor Freight. I use both the walnut shells and the resin media. Gotta say for a cheap purchase I am very pleased with the results. Instead of wasting time with the blast cabinet I can do other work while it is spinning away. I haven't put any delicate parts in it yet so i can neither confirm nor deny how it does with those.

Eric

I think the part she was talking about was a small pierced piece.  She was hand filing a similar piece when I was there. 

You're right about letting them run while you do other things.  I normally set it up first thing in the morning and check it at lunch time.  They are kind of slow but the results are so nice, it is worth the wait!  The other advantage to media blast is that tumbling or vibrating doesn't foul any of the small passages in carb parts.
Roger
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #15 on: October 12, 2008, 01:31:41 PM »
In the last episode of "As The Nut Turns" I finished off the hardware and small parts.  Since I have been otherwise occupied for the last couple of weeks with races, auction, and chauffeuring my elderly mother to the doctor, I haven't got to spend much time in the shop. 

I finally got some time to spend with the project.  Thursday evening I wet sanded the previously painted stand parts and re-shot them.  They came out nice, smooth and shiny.  After letting the paint cure overnight, I assembled the stand Friday morning and set it aside for the time being.

From this:


To this:


I spent a couple of hours cleaning and masking the machined surfaces on the saw frame castings.  I prefer to mask all moving surfaces with a couple of layers of heavy masking tape prior to blasting so as to preserve the finish.

Once the masking was complete I proceeded to the dirty job of sand blasting the castings which took a few hours considering the warm weather and need to wear a long sleeve shirt for protection.  I took several breaks to cool off and police up the re-blast so as not to track it into the shop. 

Once everything was cleaned to a "near white blast" finish, I set up a table and set out all the parts so as to expose the bottom surfaces for painting.  I wanted to get the bottom surfaces coated so they could cure overnight, allowing me to re-orientate them  the next day.


The following morning, I reset the paint table to expose the upper surfaces.  This picture is of the parts after the first of three coats. 


Notice the multiple layers of newspaper I used to mask the table surface prior to blasting, what does not readily show is that I also masked all openings so to prevent sand from migrating up to the back side and scarring the table surface.

I allowed the paint to flash to a "tack" between coats.  An old painters trick is to test the dryness with the back of your middle finger.  By doing this you leave no finger prints.  Paint over sprayed onto masking will usually dry at a faster rate so testing by touching the masking is not always a good indicator.  I usually start by testing the masking and when satisfied that it is dry I test the actual surface in an inconspicuous location.

I have set the castings aside to cure for a couple of days before re-assembling them on the stand.  That leaves the sheet metal blade guards to blast and paint.  The forecast is rain this week so it might be later before I can finish the paint.
Roger
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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #16 on: October 12, 2008, 06:34:25 PM »
Comming along nicely me thinks!!  ;D

I like the way you do these reatorations, it is nice to read an how it's done.

I have a few old tools now... Circle cutter, toggle press and an 18" surface table. All have had their lifetime of service and are semi-retired with me.... I will never punish them like they used to be so might carry out some of this type of work in the future.... Got to finish the house and build a new workshop first though.... So it might be a few years!!!

Still, good to see how the care is taken.


Ralph
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Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #17 on: October 14, 2008, 09:28:14 AM »
Starting to look nice there Roger. :bow:

I've got a Bridgeport that could use a cosmetic make over. You free after you finish the saw?  ::)  ;D

Just kidding. ;)

Bernd
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #18 on: October 14, 2008, 11:55:48 AM »
Starting to look nice there Roger. :bow:

I've got a Bridgeport that could use a cosmetic make over. You free after you finish the saw?  ::)  ;D

Just kidding. ;)

Bernd

The short answer is, NO!   ;)

I already promised my buddy that I would do his Walker Turner 16" Metal/Wood Saw next. 

My advise on the Bridgeport is to take lots of pictures for reference when re-assembling.  I did a couple at the helicopter company that were flood damaged in 1993.  I did them one at a time and found myself running out to the shed and across the shop to see how the other one was assembled.  Also have an engine hoist available to handle the heavy lifting.  I ended up moving the first one to a place I could reach with the overhead gantry and used it for R&R the head and table.  Saved a lot of hernias and dropped parts.  It also made loading the castings onto the shop carts for moving back to the paint dept. a breeze. 

Another tip is to figure out a way to secure the head at a decent working height for dis-assembly and re-assembly.  I don't know which head you will be dealing with, but I ended up bolting the ways down to a metal top work table that was heavy enough to support the head without tipping over.  One shop I know of uses a cheap engine stand to store their small head when they remove it from the combination machine for horizontal use.  Whatever the model it sure makes it a lot easier to work on than standing on a step ladder.

I would figure on just replacing all the bearings while you have it apart.  It is a heck of a lot easier to do it then rather to do them onesys and twosys at a later date, especially if you have a job waiting.

The trick is to think your way completely through the job first.

Roger
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2008, 11:53:16 AM »
Hey Rog

Those parts are looking pretty good so far. That stand looks like an OEM replacement part, not a refinished one.

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2008, 12:07:28 PM »
Thanks for the advise Rog. Will consider it.

Bernd
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #21 on: October 31, 2008, 10:51:12 PM »
OK!  It's been a while since the last installment of "As The Nut Turns" so here is the latest installment.

I finally got a few days that I could spend in the shop and the weather finally co-operated so I could finish painting the sheet metal blade guards. 

I had painted the frame castings in the last installment and set them aside to cure prior to re-assembly.  Here is the assembled frame with the upper wheel temporarily re-installed.  Sometimes I will temporarily assemble things, knowing that I will need to back track some for final assembly, just to get parts off the shelf and/or floor.


View from back of saw.


I did not take any pics of the painting process since it is just more of the same.  As the sheet metal parts are seen both sides the painting took a couple of days, first to paint the interior surfaces so that any marring from resting on the paint stands (plastic coffee containers) would not show when assembled and ready to run.  Once the inside surfaces were cured, I flipped the parts over and shot the exterior surfaces.  As the weather was kind of chilly it took a full day for the paint to cure.  Once cured, I re-riveted (OEM was a couple of plated brass rivets, but since those are hard to come by I shot and bucked a couple of dead soft aircraft skin rivets) the Delta tag to the upper blade guard and re-assembled the saw.


A closer look:


A view of the back:


The paint is not flawless and does have some dust and a few bug tracks, but the Asian lady bugs were swarming like crazy and the farmer across the road decided that it was time to chop silage just as I was starting to spray.  Since my first intentions were to do a "50 foot" paint job I am pretty satisfied for now.  I may redo the sheet metal after I get the motor situation squared away.

I am planning on bolting a 1/2 HP motor on just to dial in the cuts and check blade tracking and tire crowning.  Once that is set and the saw is cutting wood and aluminum, I am working on the variable speed treadmill motor package.  Stay Tuned!

Oh well, as the old saying goes "Beat it to fit, Paint it to match!" :hammer:
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #22 on: October 31, 2008, 11:05:02 PM »
I realize it is hard to get a close inspection from just pictures on the internet... But that looks like it is a damn site better than a 50' paint job. In fact, from the pictures alone it looks like it just came off the production line.

 :dremel:

Nice job!

Eric
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Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #23 on: November 02, 2008, 08:42:15 AM »
Very nice looking machine there Rog.  :beer:

Also I like your photo technique. They are well lighted to see the details.  :thumbup: So many times peoples pics are dark and it is hard to see the detail.

Well done job. Wish I had the patiance to do stuff like that.

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline CrewCab

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #24 on: November 13, 2008, 01:30:45 PM »
I've not really been around here much since I first joined so I'm having a good time catching up   ............. thanks Eric for the Original concept   ;D

Rog,  "As the nut turns" could easily become a regular read here, I've enjoyed the bandsaw rebuild very much, thanks for taking the time to photograph and share your work; I look forward to further projects

CC

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #25 on: November 28, 2008, 03:06:13 PM »
I've been a bit pre-occupied the past couple of weeks trying to run down some paying work so "As The Nut Turns" has been "back burnered" for a bit.  I finally got a bit of time (actually just got fed up with the day to day BS and decided to do something for fun) so I decided to make a couple of parts that were missing from the band saw. 

A few weeks ago I posted a request on another forum that deals exclusively with Old Wood Working Machines for the dimensions of the Taper Pin and Table Leveling Adjustment Sleeve, that Delta/Milwaukee supplied with the saw.  These parts are frequently missing and are no longer available from the few places selling parts.  Some of the fellows there were gracious enough to send me the dimensions and photos of the parts.  From the information I did a CAD drawing and posted it in the "Knowledge Base" for future reference, since these old band saws are popular restoration projects.

The "Taper Pin" is needed to hold the table slot in alignment.  It seems that Delta did all the machine work on the table (miter slot, mounting bosses, Etc.) before cutting the blade slot.  When the blade slot was cut into the table any residual stress in the casting would cause a twist in the table that results in the sides of the blade slot being uneven and therefore causing material to hang up as it slides through the saw.  Delta/Milwaukee's solution was to drill and ream a taper hole prior to making the cut and installing a pin to draw everything back to level once the slot is cut.

My original plan was to cut a 3/8" bolt down to size so I could have a nice hex head. The original pins had a 7/16" hex milled on the end for the wrench. The 9/16" hex looked to be a tad large and might have presented a snag hazard so I opted instead to use a piece of 1/2" drill rod.



To make the pin easily removable I cross drilled the end to allow a pin punch to be used as a Johnson bar.


The taper pin installed and table properly aligned.


The "Table Leveling Sleeve" is used to space the adjuster screw between the frame and the bottom of the table.  Besides giving a positive way of squaring the table it relieves some stress from the adjustment trunnions and adds support to the left side of the table.  The idea of the sleeve is to allow it to be removed quickly and the table can tilt 10 degrees to the left, should one need to make relief cuts in moulding joints.  Once the cut is made the sleeve is replaced and the table sets against the sleeve end, again bringing the table square to the blade without the need for any additional tools.


I started working on a "Drive Wheel Brush" the same day I took these photos (Thanksgiving Day), but the effects of "Turkey Poisoning" took over sending me back to the couch to sleep it off.   :med:
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

bogstandard

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #26 on: November 28, 2008, 03:56:25 PM »
Roger,

That refurb is a truly wonderful job.

I love old machinery, especially all the curves they had, unlike the modern day stuff, which is very utilitarian

They were made in the days when an engineers 'feel' for materials was used, and were usually grossly over engineered, and designed to last a lifetime, in your case, now two lifetimes. Unlike modern day equipment which seems to have a limited life.

Very well done.

John

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #27 on: December 13, 2008, 09:18:21 PM »
OK!  In the last episode of "As The Nut Turns" I showed a couple of parts that I had made to replace the missing pieces on my band saw.  I also posted them to the OWWM site, where other owners of this model saw began to request that I make them to replace the missing ones on their saws as well. 

I also decided I needed some way of dusting the sawdust and swarf off the lower tire so I came up with this little brush and bracket.  Again, the requests began to flow in.  What sets my design apart from the available aftermarket is that mine simply uses the blade guard mounting stud as an anchor.  Since the brush is specific to this saw and does not require any holes to be drilled or attachments epoxied into the frame, the restorers and purists alike, gave it their approval. 


As most of you know, with the economy being kind of slow these days, many companies are pulling back on expenses.  Along those lines my two major clients informed me that due to uncertain economic climate and the cancellation of contracts, they were terminating the projects I was working on and would notify me when and if my services were needed.  Well, there is my Merry Christmas present!   :scratch:

OK, on to "Plan B".  I called my "head hunter" and they told me things were slow all over but that I was tops on their list if anything "develops". 

OK, "Plan B" ain't working, so on to "Plan C", which in my case seems to be;  "When all else fails, make your own damn parts!"  Since the weather is turning colder than I would like and heating the shop is rather costly, I moved my little Craftsman lathe to the house and bought enough material to make 20 of each of the taper pins and the leveling sleeves. 

I already had enough material to make the brush brackets and as luck would have it, I found a source for the brushes besides buying the sets from Horrible Fright.  I e-mailed the brush supplier and requested a sample of the brush, thinking they would send me one or two.  MUCH, to my surprise, a couple of days later the UPS guy showed up with a box from the supplier and my sample request had been filled with a gross of nylon bristled brushes.  I called the company and explained that the "sample" was what I was considering purchasing. When I explained that 144 brushes were actually more than I needed, the nice lady told me that the minimum on that item was a gross lot.  I told her since that was the minimum and seeing as how they had already shipped them to me I inquired how to arrange payment.  Much to my surprise, the nice lady told me to consider the sample a gift for the holidays.   :)

Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #28 on: December 14, 2008, 10:33:20 AM »
Rog,

Good for you. Glad your making a bit of cash on the side. The thing is that little blurb on that forum is world wide. Talk about free advertisement. If I were you I'd tell the customers were you got your brush from so they can replace them if they need. Kind of helping the company out that sent them to you.  :clap:

Oh, BTW, cash isn't traceable, if you know what I mean.  :wave:

Bernd
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #29 on: December 14, 2008, 02:55:32 PM »
Hi Bernd:

Thanks for the idea.  I think I will supply a spare brush with each holder as a courtesy.  Since the minimum order is 144 brushes at a time, I doubt if anyone would be interested in going that route.  The prototype was made with a brush from Horrible Fright, taken from the little 3 pack of toothbrush sized cleaning brushes.  I published the drawings and photo essay of the build with suppliers for those that want to copy it themselves. 

Rog,

Oh, BTW, cash isn't traceable, if you know what I mean.  :wave:
Bernd

You wouldn't be suggesting that I do something illegal would you? :bugeye:
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #30 on: December 14, 2008, 06:14:49 PM »
Naw I wouldn't suggest that you do anything illegal. :wack:  :)
You can't fix "STUPID".

bogstandard

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #31 on: December 14, 2008, 06:30:59 PM »
Roger,

The way to do it, is not to sell anything.

Always do an exchange. That way, even if cash changes hands, under the taxmans lie detector, you can swear that you never sold anything, you just did a fair swap of your bits, in exchange for something that you required. ::) ::) :D

Bogs

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #32 on: December 14, 2008, 06:45:19 PM »
Ah yes Bogs, very well put. Or you could say you "bartered" paper for those bits.  :headbang: :D
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #33 on: December 14, 2008, 10:24:54 PM »
Roger,
The way to do it, is not to sell anything.
Always do an exchange. That way, even if cash changes hands, under the taxmans lie detector, you can swear that you never sold anything, you just did a fair swap of your bits, in exchange for something that you required.
Bogs

Ah yes Bogs, very well put. Or you could say you "bartered" paper for those bits.

Bogs, I can see you don't know our Internal Revenue Service at all.  You really have little appreciation of how lucky you are there, mate!  They make the rules, they enforce the rules, and they hold the court.  In other words they can killya, gutya, and cookya in one shot. :borg:

As far as "bartering" goes the IRS sees it as a cash transaction and expects payment for their cut.  They have even been known to assess values on their own and they usually value stuff at a higher rate then we would.  Also the Post Office might get involved should you receive one of those slips of paper via the mail.  AND just to cover all bases, the FBI, Federal Marshals and a couple of the other alphabet soup will get in line if you use PayPal as that constitutes "wire fraud".

I will however take payments in gold Krugerrands!
Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #34 on: December 14, 2008, 10:34:00 PM »
And we thought we were free. :whip:

Ok this thread is getting  :offtopic: and I'm not helping it any. :)
You can't fix "STUPID".

Offline Darren

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #35 on: December 15, 2008, 02:54:22 AM »
It's the same in the UK,

It's called "part ex". Value is place on all assets given or received in part or full payment.

Usually discovered by someone elses "books" Then the trail begins....
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline sbwhart

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #36 on: December 17, 2008, 03:54:52 AM »
Great re build Roger enjoying your project

As for tax there are only two certainties in life DEATH and TAX

Have

Fun

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #37 on: December 17, 2008, 09:16:26 PM »
Hey Rog... I wonder if that brush idea would work with my HF bandsaw?? I think it might, could you post a link to your drawings?

Thanks
Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #38 on: December 21, 2008, 05:51:25 PM »
Hi Eric:
There is a good chance the brush may work on your Horrible Fright saw.  They pretty much are a copy of the durable old Delta/Milwaukee/Rockwell design.

Drawing:


Finished brush:


Roger
I'm OLD, I'm TIRED, and I'M GRUMPY!

Baldrocker

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #39 on: December 21, 2008, 06:50:42 PM »
Serendipity
For some time I've been wondering if an old meat saw for sale locally
could be viable to convert to metal cutting.
Now along comes Rog02, not only does he answer my question he then
goes on to show how. :bow:
BR

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #40 on: December 21, 2008, 08:39:50 PM »
Serendipity
For some time I've been wondering if an old meat saw for sale locally
could be viable to convert to metal cutting.
Now along comes Rog02, not only does he answer my question he then
goes on to show how. :bow:
BR

BR:

This is not a meat saw conversion.  This saw is a wood cutting model that was used to cut meat.

There are several differences in a meat saw and a wood and/or metal saw.

The meat saws are generally built with a much lighter frame as the flesh presents less resistance to the blade and therefore less tension is required.  Most meat saws I have seen do not have an adjustable upper blade guide, the throat is pretty tall which may be desirable for wood work but for metal cutting the upper blade guard is kept pretty close to the surface for stability.  The table on a meat saw is not adjustable for miter cuts, nor is there any provision for a miter gauge, as most butchers don't really pay much attention to angles.

Meat saws generally run higher blade speeds, blade speed for wood and aluminum is 2200 foot per minute and drops to 150 FPM for some steels and cast iron.  Some serious re-gearing is going to be needed.

I would give this some serious consideration before embarking on a conversion. 
Roger
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #41 on: December 21, 2008, 11:32:25 PM »
Thanks Rog!

I am going to mod my saw in the beginning of 09. Want to add a better table (removable) for vertical cutting and liquid cooling\cleaning for horizontal operations... Seams i go through a lot of blades.

Eric
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Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #42 on: December 22, 2008, 12:15:13 AM »
Thanks Rog!

I am going to mod my saw in the beginning of 09. Want to add a better table (removable) for vertical cutting and liquid cooling\cleaning for horizontal operations... Seams i go through a lot of blades.

Eric

I mis-understood you Eric.  I thought you were talking about Horrible Fright's 14" upright band saw.  The brush as designed, probably will not work for the little 4X6 horizontal saw. 

They indeed are blade eaters as supplied from the Pacific Rim.  I have found Starret and equivalent quality blades work well and outperform the cheap blades from Horrible Fright.  Changing to a hydraulic downfeed dampener increased the quality of cuts by degrees of magnitude.  The addition of the coolant system further enhanced the performance and extended blade life.  I cut 4130 tubing and plate with mine and can get a year or more out of the blades now after extensively modifying the saw.

The best way to look at the little import horizontal saws is to consider them a partially assembled kit.  With the addition of a few parts, modification of several existing parts and some careful deliberate tweaking they can be made to work acceptably well.  Fresh out of the box they really don't get it.  An acquaintance of mine purchased one from HF and when he got it home found the castings to be so misaligned it was never going to cut straight and had to exchange it before the mods could begin.   
Roger
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Baldrocker

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #43 on: December 22, 2008, 06:16:34 PM »
Bugger
Thanks for that, saved me some biccies.
BR

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #44 on: December 22, 2008, 09:52:30 PM »

I mis-understood you Eric.  I thought you were talking about Horrible Fright's 14" upright band saw.  The brush as designed, probably will not work for the little 4X6 horizontal saw. 

They indeed are blade eaters as supplied from the Pacific Rim.  I have found Starret and equivalent quality blades work well and outperform the cheap blades from Horrible Fright.  Changing to a hydraulic downfeed dampener increased the quality of cuts by degrees of magnitude.  The addition of the coolant system further enhanced the performance and extended blade life.  I cut 4130 tubing and plate with mine and can get a year or more out of the blades now after extensively modifying the saw.

The best way to look at the little import horizontal saws is to consider them a partially assembled kit.  With the addition of a few parts, modification of several existing parts and some careful deliberate tweaking they can be made to work acceptably well.  Fresh out of the box they really don't get it.  An acquaintance of mine purchased one from HF and when he got it home found the castings to be so misaligned it was never going to cut straight and had to exchange it before the mods could begin.   

It's ok Rog, I probably wasn't clear. I am using Rigid blades from Home Depot right now. I go through 1 every few months, but I do a lot of cutting. I started to tweak it, but I got further to go yet.

Eric
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Offline Lo Cash John

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #45 on: December 30, 2009, 10:07:36 PM »
I know this is a rather old topic, but I myself just stumbled upon this site (Yeah!!) by doing a Google search on old Delta/Milwaukee band saws.

I just bought the EXACT same saw for $100 bucks in working condition with Westinghouse 1/2 hp motor.  I love your restoration work but I doubt I'll go quit that far with mine.  One detail I don't see on yours is the On/Off switch.  Mine has a single gang electrical box with a simple On/Off light switch on the lower left corner of the stand.  Is this original?  Can you please post some pics of all 4 sides of your finished saw?

Thanks so much in advance!

Now I have days of reading to do here at this new (to me) forum.


John
  
« Last Edit: December 30, 2009, 10:09:26 PM by Lo Cash John »

Offline Rotoplane

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #46 on: January 06, 2010, 08:16:22 PM »
I have similar band saw that my father bought at an aution and we used it for years growing up.  It is now in need of rubber on the drive and idler wheels as well as the guard on the left band side.  Do you know where I can get parts?
My serial number is 38-6876.  It has been a great saw for many years.

Thanks,

Tom

Offline Lo Cash John

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #47 on: January 06, 2010, 10:05:39 PM »
I have not begun ordering parts yet.  Mine too needs the left hand blade guide/guard.  It looks like it spit the blade out a few times in it's life.

I have determined that mine does not have the original motor, but the one that's on there is very large and about the same vintage.

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #48 on: March 24, 2010, 11:56:27 PM »
Sorry guy's:

I haven't been around much in the past year due to family commitments (Copy that as, my family should be committed to the nearest institution :bang: :bang:)

For all the info you could ever want on these old 14" Delta/Rockwell/Milwaukee band saws check in over at OWWM Forums http://www.owwm.org/

To age your saw from the serial number go to "The Mother Ship" and check it out http://wiki.owwm.com/DeltaSerialNumbers.ashx

As for the on off switch, the original Delta motors which were optional as was the stand, had a pecker box with a toggle switch that was actuated by a push/pull rod.  I am using a foot switch on mine at the present time as it is my intention to add a treadmill motor conversion to allow for cutting ferrous metals.  Right now it cuts aluminum and wood but I would like to have the capability of cutting 4130 brackets and gussets.

As for the tire question there are several sources for the 14" tires and several materials to choose from.  Again I will point you to the OWWM website as that discussion has been had many times there and no need to waste the bandwidth here rehashing dead animals.  You will need to "crown" the tires after installation which can be done in many ways, again it is a common topic at OWWM. 
Roger
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Offline dsquire

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #49 on: March 25, 2010, 12:25:11 AM »
Roger

Welcome back and thanks for adding some new information to the band saw thread. Hope you have got everything under control and manage to get yourself some shop time.  :ddb: :ddb:

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Offline LOGRUS9

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #50 on: August 15, 2010, 02:05:55 PM »
I just joined so I could thank you for posting this reuild. I just bought a similar model, I can't get it out of the car yet to check and see if it has a serial number. It's missing the original table, but it does have the original delta 1/2 hp motor and a large guard to cover the drive belt and pulleys.

Your logbook will make it so much easier to rebuild my own, thanks again. :D

Offline Rog02

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #51 on: August 20, 2010, 07:22:10 PM »
I just joined so I could thank you for posting this reuild. I just bought a similar model, I can't get it out of the car yet to check and see if it has a serial number. It's missing the original table, but it does have the original delta 1/2 hp motor and a large guard to cover the drive belt and pulleys.

Your logbook will make it so much easier to rebuild my own, thanks again. :D

You got one with both the original motor and the optional belt guard?  I am so jealous!  The belt guards go for a $100 when they do come up for sale, which is rarely.

Roger
Old, Tired, and Grumpy
Roger
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Offline Archngel

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #52 on: October 18, 2010, 10:53:06 PM »
Hi everyone

I have a question on this band saw. I enhirited a similar band saw 2 yrs ago when my father passed away. Mine is black, same delta milwaukee logosame size. Id like to know where the serial plate was located. the only number I could see was on the upper arm which mention LBS-26 which appears to be on a metal/wood band saw according to some parts list i could dig up. but i could find any plate with serial number. Can anyone direct me to where it might be hidden. Id like to know more about my saw but seem to be stuck.

regards

Arch

Offline Archngel

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #53 on: October 18, 2010, 11:23:23 PM »
Well found my answer at the begining of this post in 2008,, where full pictures are shown, its used to be on the back side righ tunder where my part number LBS-26 is,, I can only see 2 little rivets head, had to pass my finger over them to realise they were there, 3 3/4 center apart, so it makes my saw a third style tag, that began late 47, too bad that there is not a ghost image of the serial  to pin point its origin or date of production, although LBS-26 on a manual dates 11-15-65 item number 426-02-651-0002 from power tool division rockwell international. So that upper arm may have been used in many models since I saw tha upper arm number also in a manual dated 1950 for same type metal , metal / wood bandsaw. Will keep reading. ;) very interresting subject.

Arch

Offline Nelson92757

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #54 on: January 28, 2011, 06:59:32 PM »
Roger
When I saw this thread I had to take a glance. Your thread should have Rockwell also. The three partners made a company then split making three company we know today as Delta, Milwaukee and Rockwell. I have a table saw and jointer on the same kind of stand. It is nice to see the great job you are doing on the restore. Looking good.
Nelson Collar

Offline Gonzo

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #55 on: March 25, 2011, 05:04:00 PM »
I have a 14" Delta Milwaukee bandsaw that is serial # 56-2684.  I assume it must be older than yours.  I am currently rebuilding it and feel very fortunate to have your photos and discussion.  Do you have any idea of where I might find a down load of an exploded parts diagram & owners manual.  Thanks, Gonzo

Offline Bernd

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Re: 1949 Delta/Milwaukee 14" Band Saw
« Reply #56 on: March 25, 2011, 08:46:20 PM »
You can't fix "STUPID".