Author Topic: Project Lister Power  (Read 3780 times)

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Country: gb
Project Lister Power
« on: November 07, 2010, 09:04:38 AM »
One of the things I've been messing with, on & off, is making a generator out of an old Lister Start-o-Matic. Although I've got most of the original Lister bits, the starter/alternator has a bent shaft, and requires a re-wind, which is a pain to fix, and expensive - in that order. So... until such time as the money fairy visits, I'm going down a slightly different path, and have purchased a Chinese alternator. Here they are, together at last:



The Big Plan is, this device will run on veggie oil (eventually), will provide 240VAC power, and  a nice tank full of hot water. If - when - my emigration plans come together, this will likely be the prime power/hot water source, or at the very least a much-needed backup...

Yesterday, I was mostly fixing one of the leaky fuel tanks. I started by soldering up as many of the holes as I could find (some had already been done). Then, I turned up a brass fitting so I could screw the fuel on/off tap directly into the bottom of the tank:



In the picture, it's about to get brazed to that plate; the white in the threads is Tippex (aka solvent based correction fluid, to prevent the silver solder from running into them - it worked, too). The brass ring is sitting on a ring of silver solder rod; when the stuff melts, the brass will sit down on the metal & I know to stop heating. More surprisingly, it actually worked! Here's the bits all together:



The plate with fitting gets soft-soldered onto that big square bit (I'd already de-soldered it); the silvery washer has an integral rubber seal; the brass washer is needed because the silver one is too wobbly on the fuel tap, and allows leaks... and then the fuel tap itself.

The square plate is then soldered in place:



Upon screwing it all together & filling full of water to test it, discovered yet more pinhole leaks. As it was getting late, and frankly I was getting fed up of chasing the pinholes around, I simply slathered a load of Chemical Metal onto the bottom of the tank. That's got it sorted...!

Next up - and here we get to the nub of this post.... I need to put the pulley & ring gear together:



I'd hope to use some of the holes that are already drilled in the ring gear - but unfortunately the inner ring are too close to the centre (they'd have to be drilled into the taper bush, and since the ring gear will be inboard of the pulley, that would prevent the taper bush from working. The outer holes are too close to the edge, and attempting to drill into the pulley will break through into the area where the belts are. So, I need to drill some new holes.

Not a problem, I can mount the whole thing up on my rotary table & simply drill the holes through both rotab & ring gear at the same time. I think I'll tap them at the same time too, then remove the pulley & expand the holes on the ring gear to a clearance fit.

My question now is: How can I mount it all up on the rotary table & be reasonably sure it's all concentric? I was thinking of turning up a sort of arbour, which had a section which is a tight sliding fit in the rotary table, a section which is tapered to hold the pulley, and final section which is a tight sliding fit for the ring gear. I'll draw a C-o-C tomorrow if the description's no good; unfortunately, I just ran out of time today & have to dash...
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline madjackghengis

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 720
  • big engine
Re: Project Lister Power
« Reply #1 on: November 07, 2010, 01:22:57 PM »
Hi Ade, in my own travels doing much the same thing, I've simply run a bolt or stud up through the hole, used brown paper to add friction to the surfaces between parts, pulled all down snug, and centered everything with a dial indicator, then tightened things up tapping things back in alignment when they move while tightening.  I've done a similar deal with a Lombardini diesel, fitting a ring gear off a Tecumseh gas lawn mower engine, along with the starter motor, to make it electric start.   :jaw: mad jack

Offline Brass_Machine

  • Administrator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5197
  • Country: us
Re: Project Lister Power
« Reply #2 on: November 07, 2010, 04:30:20 PM »
One day I would like to do something similar. I will be watching this one.

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Country: gb
Re: Project Lister Power
« Reply #3 on: November 13, 2010, 04:37:41 PM »
I did some more on this over the last couple of days... The first job was to turn up an arbour on the lathe, which will hold everything together.

The plan was to mount the arbour in the rotary table, add the ring gear, then fasten the pulley to the remaining shaft that was sticking up. But then, the ring gear would a) be underneath the flywheel, and b) not tight, as well as c) blocking the t-slots in the rotab... After much  :scratch:, I figured this: Mount the arbour on the mill; centre it (which, as it happens, also centred the rotary table, bonus!), then drill a 1/2" hole in the centre of the arbour.

Meanwhile, on the lathe, having located a suitably sized piece of scrap steel, I turned up a section the right diameter to pop into the rotary table, and then cut the end of that to fit in the hole I'd drilled in the end of the arbour. When the two bits fit, I cleaned the shoulder up, and glued them together with some of that fancy loctite:



So, now, one assembles the contraption thus:

Step 1: Arbour in rotary table hole, add ring gear:



Step 2: Add the pully, roughly centered:



Step 3: Fit the taper bush, using a bit of gentle tapping where needed. Then screw firmly into place using the supplied set screws:



Step 4: Finally, turn the whole lot over & drop the other end into the rotary table centre. Add a fairly precarious looking pair of clamps, and one is ready to commence drilling:



The procedure for the flywheel side is simple: Spot drill the first hole; rotate to 120o, drill, rotate to 240o, drill. Then open each hole out to 5mm, 8mm, 10mm  in turn, now it's a clearance for an M10 bolt. There's a bit of a gap between the ring gear & the pulley, so I've been able to open the holes in the ring gear to full size without moving anything.

Now, remove the ring gear, and drill the pully to ~3cm depth, at the same 120o spacing. Drill them out to 8.5, then use the tapping head to tap each one for M10, as deep as the tap would go. No snappage! (phew!). The pic is after spot-drilling the three holes, prior to drilling the first full-depth hole:




And here's the finished article:




The next job is to cut the keyway into the ring gear. I could do this just by drilling a chunk out (after all, it's hardly going to need the keyway itself for any reason) - but, I recently acquired a bunch of broaches - including one of the correct size - so I figure what the heck, let's cut it:



The only bummer is, I don't have a 32mm guide, to match the shaft size.... So, back to the lathe to turn one up.... Here it is on the mill, about to have it's slot cut:



....and that's as far as I got.


More tomorrow, I hope!
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline AdeV

  • Madmodder Committee
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1981
  • Country: gb
Re: Project Lister Power
« Reply #4 on: November 14, 2010, 02:32:17 PM »
Well, I got my keyway cut, I had to badly abuse a fine old English pillar drill to get the job done, so no photos I'm afraid. I'm adding a fly press or arbour press to the shopping list I think....

Anyway, the keyway cut nicely, and I was able to fit the pulley+ring gear to the alternator:



Next up I tested my two starter motors. The Austin Rover one got rejected, because it turns the wrong way no matter which way around you connect it (how did they do that? And WHY?)... So, one Escort Diesel starter motor will be pressed into service. It needed a bit of fettling with an angle grinder to fit; here it is being bench tested:



The test was a success! So, next job is to get the frame finished off, with a proper starter motor bracket added, then it can all be put together & tested :)
Cheers!
Ade.
--
Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73

Offline Trion

  • Full Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 239
Re: Project Lister Power
« Reply #5 on: November 15, 2010, 03:51:20 PM »
Looking good AdeV, taking notes for stuff to buy and methods to use as i read along! Fun to see a "big" engine for a change :lol: