Author Topic: Taking things for granted!  (Read 10790 times)

Offline Aestus57

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Taking things for granted!
« on: November 21, 2010, 10:42:36 AM »
Well now... the battery in my digital calipers has just given up the ghost due to the cold weather, so dug out an old "steam driven" vernier one that my dad used to use regularly 50 years ago. Took me half an hour to remember how to use it, (but at least I could). Plus had to dig out a jewellers loupe to help me see the bl***y graduations. (Old aged eyesight)
So first thing tomorrow off to get new battery!!

We take a lot of modern technology for granted these days, wonder how many of the younger generation would even know where to start with an old fashioned vernier?    :doh:
Think I'm suffering De Ja Vu and Amnesia at the same time, I'm sure I've forgotten this before!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #1 on: November 21, 2010, 10:57:01 AM »
I stopped using my vernier caliper, when I went digital, some 4 years ago.

Recently offered it for free raffle, on my other forum, (Steam Toys).

Only 5 members showed interest. Mostly the older ones........  ::)

David D
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Offline Aestus57

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #2 on: November 21, 2010, 11:09:14 AM »
I'd hang on to it David.... just in case your battery goes flat! :thumbup:
Think I'm suffering De Ja Vu and Amnesia at the same time, I'm sure I've forgotten this before!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #3 on: November 21, 2010, 12:05:22 PM »
I'd hang on to it David.... just in case your battery goes flat! :thumbup:

Too late Mate!

It's already arrived in Wales.....  :thumbup:

David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #4 on: November 21, 2010, 03:51:35 PM »
I primarily use my digital verniers... I do have a few 'analog' versions. I do however keep a bunch of spare batteries!

Eric
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #5 on: November 21, 2010, 04:13:10 PM »
If I want to measure something accurately that my micrometers won't reach to, I always use my clock vernier, 8", accurate to about 0.0005". I also have a very nice manual standard vernier that is very accurate, and with that I can easily measure to 1 thou.

Digiverns just aren't accurate enough for precision work, period. I just use them for quick checking, but when getting close ( 0.005"), the micrometers come into play.


Bogs
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Offline AdeV

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2010, 07:21:29 PM »
The first calipers I got were a nice Mitotoyo dial caliper, so I used that exclusively to begin with. I had a cheap metric set too, but that got dropped once too often & isn't so reliable now.

The £8 digi caliper gets a lot of use; but, as per Bogs, if I need accuracy it's the dial caliper; and if i need real accuracy, I use a micrometer.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #7 on: November 21, 2010, 09:38:59 PM »
Bogs and Ade,

Agreed! I have a set of Starret Micrometers for the accurate stuff. Picked one up at a flea market (boot sale) for $5!!

Eric
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We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline latheman

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #8 on: January 13, 2011, 03:52:41 PM »
Yeah, well. A few years ago I accidently discovered that the 6" rule(r)s (there now, that should satisfy both camps) I had aquired over the years did not match. Strangely, it was the Rabone Chesterman that was most out - unless that one is right and all the others wrong.

I then discovered a discrepancy between the metric micrometer and dial gauge. Next I bought the 25mm, 50 & 75mm Mitutoyo micrometer standards and tested all my stuff. The end result was that one digital vernier was worse than useless, the other one was consistently low, the dial gauge vernier was also low, whilst the metric micrometer was 0.005mm high at 25mm and a slide vernier (0.05 resolution) was dead accurate (as far as I could tell). In addition, the digital devices eat batteries - there is a website somewhere which compares battery usage rates with Mitutoyo being the best, and surprisingly, that none of them actually stopped taking current when switched off.

I now use the micrometer, followed by the slide vernier (within reason), followed by a new Starrett dial gauge (0.01 resolution), and lastly the better of the two digital verniers.

Looking at the digital specs that I have seen, not many I accept, and understanding a little bit about digital electronics, I would not advise anyone to use digital unless they are not bothered about the least significant digit (this, due to the electronic circuitry, will always have an error of 1 either side of the correct reading).

Regards,

Peter G. Shaw

Offline AdeV

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #9 on: January 14, 2011, 04:57:07 AM »
I must admit that my expensive-looking M&W depth gauge (I bought it second hand for a tenner, or thereabouts) appears to be wildly inaccurate (10+ thou) compared to all of the calipers I've got... unless all of the calipers are wrong...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline NickG

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #10 on: January 14, 2011, 05:56:21 AM »
I occasionally use my grandad's old (can't remember if it's starrett or dathan) vernier when I get annoyed with the cheapo digi one. When you're making 2 bits that need a close fit you soon realise the digi one isn't accurate, also gives different readings between inside and outside dimensions. More recently started using the micrometer a bit more.

The slide vernier I have you definitely need a magnifying glass / jewellers loupe to see the graduations - there's one that's stayed in the box with it since my grandad passed it on. PITA to read. Maybe I should invest in a dial one just to do away with batteries! The display has been flashing on my digi one for months now presumably indicating I need new batteries so it might not even be reading properly.

Interesting about the M&W depth gauge Ade as I've always thought of M&W as a really good make - that's what my micrometer is.

Out of interest does everybody have proper depth gauges and are they worth getting? I've just got a sliding one with graduations down to 1/64" I think.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline cidrontmg

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #11 on: January 14, 2011, 07:38:35 AM »
Hi Nick, "the digi one isn't accurate, also gives different readings between inside and outside dimensions."
well, that probably is true, you really can´t expect super precision from a 15 € thingy. But if there is largish discrepancy between the out- and inside measure results, the digivern might be in need of some adjustment. There are two screws recessed in the thing, that act on a gib strip, and they can and should be adjusted for minimal play. There are similar adjustments in practically every type of +/- serious verniers. In the photo, there´s a clock vernier below, where you can see them easily, but they´re much in the same place in the digivern, although barely discernible.




With a small screwdriver, give those screws some TLC, and see if there´s any improvement (I´d be willing to bet on some slack there). Thing is, the gibs in digiverns seem to be made of some very rapidly wearing material (as compared to analog "steam" or clock verniers), and they are in constant need of adjusting. Since I got the clock vernier years ago, after an initial adjust, it´s been immaculate ever since. I have three digiverns, and I´ve adjusted each of them many, many times in the same time.
 :wave:

P.S. If there´s a difference when you measure the same thing well inside the vernier jaws, and near the points, that´s also a sure sign they´re in need of a small screwdriver. You can get the two readings to show the same last digit, so maybe you should   :dremel:
« Last Edit: January 14, 2011, 07:46:19 AM by cidrontmg »
Olli
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Offline Lew_Merrick_PE

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #12 on: January 14, 2011, 11:51:43 AM »
1) Cheaply made tools are rarely (if ever) calibrated.  Resolution and accuracy are rarely in sync.  If you don't take a set of gage blocks screwdrivers to the store with you (or have the right to return mail order stuff), you are asking for surprises in today's world!

2) I worked on the Apollo program during its latter days.  Hand-held calculators had come out and most people were dumping their 24 inch long, 3-decimal place slide rules.  I picked one up.  It lives in a felt-lined glass fronted box (still in storage, unfortunately) with a brass hammer chained to it and an, "In case of emergency, break glass." sign I "borrowed" from a fire hose box that was being surplussed...

Offline AdeV

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #13 on: January 16, 2011, 01:57:14 PM »
Looks like I owe Messrs Moore and Wright an apology.... having bumbled around with various measuring sticks, it looks like it's the Mitotoyo calipers that are unable to read depths correctly, even though readings between jaws are OK. Then again, it's all around the 0.005" variation on a 27mm depth, even a gnat's cock would look big compared to that. So, last time & used the M&W, I must have been doing something wrong...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline NickG

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #14 on: January 17, 2011, 07:59:52 AM »
Cheers Olli, didn't have a clue they were there those screws. Will have to have a fiddle!
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline HS93

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Re: Taking things for granted!
« Reply #15 on: January 17, 2011, 08:05:58 AM »
Well now... the battery in my digital calipers has just given up the ghost due to the cold weather, so dug out an old "steam driven" vernier one that my dad used to use regularly 50 years ago. Took me half an hour to remember how to use it, (but at least I could). Plus had to dig out a jewellers loupe to help me see the bl***y graduations. (Old aged eyesight)
So first thing tomorrow off to get new battery!!

We take a lot of modern technology for granted these days, wonder how many of the younger generation would even know where to start with an old fashioned vernier?    :doh:

Watch out bog's he was origanly one of us, he broke out and is hiding in Scotland,  so boggy when you insult me you insult other's and we may gang up and have the wheels of the truck....

peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure