Author Topic: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine  (Read 89006 times)

Online sbwhart

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Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« on: January 14, 2011, 02:01:05 PM »
Started to cut metal for this engine: for those of you who didn't pick it up her's my thread on the design

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=3990.0

And a pic of the engine the model will be based on.



Using a chunk of brass donated by John:- thanks John  :thumbup: first square it up and bring it to size with a fly cutter.





Then with a 18mm end mill cut a couple of scallops down the sides,



Then set the boring bar up to cut a 12.5 mm rad



Open the scallops out to 12.5 mm rad



And counter bore them out to 15 mm rad



so you've got this



Then turn up a couple of brass spools that fit into the scallops



And you've got your self a twin cylinder.



Well you will have when you've silver soldered them together thats a job for the week end :- if I can sneak away, our son and wife are staying with our new baby granddaughter, so we will have a string of visitors ho-ing and ar-ing,  and doesn't she look like youing.

 :D :D :D :D :D :D

Really looking forward to it

Stew


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline raynerd

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2011, 02:56:32 PM »
Great to see you have started cutting metal for this engine Stew and really look forward to the rest of the build. Please keep posting and especially the photo`s of the machining methods, I always learn a lot. Looking forward to it.

Chris
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Rob.Wilson

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2011, 03:03:56 PM »
Hi Stew


Aboot time  :poke:  :D  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i can see this being an interesting  build  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:



Rob

Offline Dean W

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2011, 08:55:23 PM »
Potty Engineering strikes again!  You've made a good start, Stew.

Dean
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #4 on: January 15, 2011, 01:57:07 AM »
A good start Stew.

There is a great advantage in making a one off, there is no one looking over your shoulder saying that you are doing it all wrong. You have total control over how it is built, and as long as it looks right and works correctly at the very end, then what you have done is right.

If you need anything else, as you know, you only have to ask.


John
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Offline arnoldb

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #5 on: January 15, 2011, 02:22:25 AM »
Glad you started on this one Stew; looks good so far  :thumbup:

I'll be along for the ride.

Kind regards, Arnold

Online sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #6 on: January 15, 2011, 03:22:14 AM »
Hi Stew


Aboot time  :poke:  :D  ,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, i can see this being an interesting  build  :ddb: :ddb: :ddb:


Rob




I surender


Thanks for your comments guys,

I've bin a bit torn on this one as I got a yearning  :proj: to build a flame licker, but decided to stick to my plan and build this first not quite settled on the governor design yet though.

I've got the designs laid out for both and with most of the material set aside, just short of the ally jig plate for the bases, but I'm keeping an eye on the scrappy, as soon as he gets some its mine.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline NickG

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2011, 08:10:05 AM »
Looking forward to this Stew and a great start, best to stick with your original plan or end up with multiple unfinished projects like me! Would definitely recommend a flame licker as your next build though, if I get mine running I'm sure  :proj: will return!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #8 on: January 19, 2011, 11:58:42 AM »
After a hectic few days I needed a bit of r and r in the shed, but it was really great having all the family together.  :D

Made a start on soldering the bits for the cylinder together, for those of you who missed it in my loco boiler thread this is the kit a I used to solder.

I hearth cobbled together from an old ally baking tray, thermalite blocks from B and Q, a propane burner with a large nozzle fitted a bucket of water for quenching, some easy flo solder and tenacity flux, the barrel is just there to keep everything at a handy height.



I solder one cylinder at a time building a little wall around it to keep the heat in.



Both ends done I just opened up the wall so that it would cool quicker after five minutes I quenched it in the water and put it in the acid pickle for 1/2 hr.



This it it all soldered up



Then I just cleaned one end up with a fly cutter, the other end I plugged the bores with some nuggets of ally secured with loctite



Set it back up in the mill and cleaned them all up again with the fly cutter, they picked the datum edges found the position for the cylinder centre line and centre drilled into the nuggets.



To machine the bores I'm going to set the cylinders up in an angle plate on the lathe face plate.

So first job clamp the cylinder up nice and square in the angle plate, I won't slacked the clamp bolts until both cylinders are bored this will ensure that cylinders are parallel.



Remove the parallels and clamp the angle plate to the face plate, I'm just using the centre to help hold thing in place and roughly get position. (its one of those jobs you wish you had three hands) just tighten the clamps lightly



Add counter balance weights I've found the best way to check the balance is to disconnect the head stock from the drive remove the belt or disengage the gear which ever way your machine work, and give the face place a spin with your hand, what your after is for it to come to rest in a radome position if it stop in the same place move the weight or add more weight until you get it balanced.



Using a wobble bar between the centered nugget and a running centre clock the bar up tap the angle plate until it running true, and you've got the cylinder positioned, tighten all the clamps.



Now face plate work is probably the most hazardous job you can do on a lathe bits can fly off and do a you a real nasty, so make sure everything is nice and tight and can't come adrift, before you switch the power on, turn the lathe over by hand making sure nothing can catch, and check that you've got the speed set on slow, and stand to one side when you switch it on just in case.

OK everything nice and safe stick a drill down the bore to get rid of the ally nugget. and bore to size



Thats the first bore done the R and R for tomorrow is the second bore to do that just move the angle plate over clock position up with a wobble bar and bore it out, the cylinders will come out perfectly parallel.

Stew









 



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #9 on: January 19, 2011, 12:07:57 PM »
Very smoothly done Stew. Well planned and executed.

I see you don't need any more instruction on soldering, that is a very nice result indeed, spot on.


John
If you don't try it, you will never know if you can do it.

Location - Crewe, Cheshire

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Online sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #10 on: January 19, 2011, 12:16:01 PM »
Thanks John:-

I try listen and take in everything people tell me and put it into practice.


Stew



A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #11 on: January 19, 2011, 12:54:17 PM »
 :)   looking great Stew  :thumbup:

Rob

Offline NickG

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #12 on: January 19, 2011, 02:56:54 PM »
Brilliant Stew.  :bow: When I was using the 4 jaw the other day, it was only slightly out of being central but the jaws are that heavy that I could feel the inbalance in it - Can't remember if I've even got  face plate but I'm def not ready to do anything like that!

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #13 on: January 19, 2011, 03:33:30 PM »
Excellent Stew, can you tell me why you plugged the holes you had already drilled with alluminium? - just curious, I wouldn`t be asking if I wasn`t interested.... excellent pictures and write up again.

Chris
Youtube: craynerd
Projects at - www.raynerd.co.uk

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #14 on: January 19, 2011, 03:49:27 PM »
Nice Job Stew!!!  :bow:

I am with Chris... why did you plug the cylinders?

Eric
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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #15 on: January 19, 2011, 04:14:00 PM »
Thanks for your comments and interest Guys.

Nice Job Stew!!!  :bow:

I am with Chris... why did you plug the cylinders?

Eric

Soldering the cylinders together is not that accurate there would be an error in the bore position, by plugged the cylinders and finding the correct location and marking it with centre drill,  I was able to clock up on the centre with the wiggler and get the bore accuratly positioned.

This is a little trick you can do with castings.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #16 on: January 19, 2011, 04:17:11 PM »
Soldering the cylinders together is not that accurate there would be an error in the bore position, by plugged the cylinders and finding the correct location and marking it with centre drill,  I was able to clock up on the centre with the wiggler and get the bore accuratly positioned.

This is a little trick you can do with castings.

Stew

oooohhhh. very smart move  :smart: I would have never thought that.

Eric
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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #17 on: January 19, 2011, 04:21:53 PM »
Sorry Stew. Late again! Only just spotted the posting.....  ::)

That's a great start you've made. Really looking forward to watching it develop!  :D

Good luck!  :thumbup:

(Going to read through again, now).
David D
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Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #18 on: January 20, 2011, 12:50:49 PM »
 :hammer:  Got right down to doing number 2 bore this morning just a mater of repositioning the angle plate on the face plate and clocking up on the centre.



And boring it out, I like to sneak up onto the size taking smaller cuts as I get closer and run the final cut through a couple of times to take the spring out of the bar, I don't worry too much about getting exact size as long as its within 0.1mm I'm happy Its far easier to make the pistons to fit.

Her we have them both done



Then over to the mill I left it set up with the stops so it should locate close to where I left it but decided to check bore position before I started the next op using a coaxial indicator.



It was went back within 0.2 so got it back on zero then first centre drill followed M2.5 tapping drill for the cylinder covers, be careful you don't end up with a hole where the air gallery will go, I did this on my first engine a built a few years back, you live and learn.



Tap M2.5 using the tapping stand to get everything nice and square.



Then drill and tap M5 on the underside to take the feet.



As it would make the cylinder a difficult shape to hold I left angling the valve port face till last.
I just angle the cylinder block 15 deg in the vice and milled off the meat.



At this point I was gasping for a cuppa so decided to leave milling the valve ports until tomorrow when I'll be fresh.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #19 on: January 20, 2011, 01:23:22 PM »
Looking very purposeful Stew!  :wave:

Almost a Dreadnaught......  :thumbup:

Well done!  :clap:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline NickG

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #20 on: January 20, 2011, 03:17:43 PM »
Wow, nice work stew, it's looking like the real deal already.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #21 on: January 20, 2011, 04:14:41 PM »
Looking good  :clap:
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Online sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #22 on: January 21, 2011, 11:48:18 AM »
Thanks for the interest Guys

Milling the valve ports:- this is what I call a **** or bust job its easy to get things wrong then your in it deep.

So I  like to mark the ports out this doesn't have to be dead accurate you'r just using this as a guide so that you get the wide port in the middle and the narrow ones at the ends and that the spacing is about right, I also like to make myself a crib sheet showing the cordinates I'm going to use.

I work from the centre of the valve face so first thing is find the centre and zero up the DRO in the x and y.



The middle port is 5 mm wide and the outer are 3.5 mm

Index to the correct cordinate:- centre drill and drill to depth using a number drill, thats just smaller than the slot drill, this stops the slot drill pulling into the corner and giving the port a hockey stick end.



Then using slot drill mill out the ports, as the valve face is angled each port is milled to a diverent depth, I took them considerable deeper than I planned on the drawing but with the actual job in my hand I had a brain wave on how to connect the ports up something that troubled me when I did the drawing as I was unsure how to do it.




Now the brain wave was  :smart: drill into the ports from the side, and drill through from the top of the bore to join it up, screw and plug the inlet ports to seal them up, the exhaust is left open.

Finding where to start the drill to join up with the ports.



Drilling through into the ports.




Lining up the cylinder to join the inlet port from the cylinder.



Joining the inlet port up.




And her we have the ports drilled





I'll amend the drawing to reflect this change.

I'll put the cylinder to one side now as I want to make the valve chest and use it to mark of the fixing holes in the cylinder. But before I can do that I've got a huge tidying up job to do in the shop, I'm very much from the:- take it out, use it, put it down school of working as a result I end up with tools and bits of kit spread all round the shop.
 

Stew

« Last Edit: January 21, 2011, 11:50:56 AM by sbwhart »
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline raynerd

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #23 on: January 21, 2011, 03:48:36 PM »
Stew, I`m sorry, you replied to my question and I had not seen it until now.

Thanks for info regarding plugging the bore. I`m sure Harold Hall described a similar but crude method by plugging the holes with cork, marking the centre and then milling. I think this is what you did but more accurately with the aluminium.

Thanks again. Looks to be going great! I`ll be watching...
.
Chris
Youtube: craynerd
Projects at - www.raynerd.co.uk

Online sbwhart

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Re: Potty Over Crank Wall Engine
« Reply #24 on: January 22, 2011, 06:02:26 AM »
This is going  :offtopic: but I'd thought I'd show you how the pluging trick can work to get an awkward shape machined.

Some time ago to raise shop funds I machined up a small batch of cylinders for the Minnie traction engine.

These are the castings



The critical features is the position of the cylinder that is dimentioned from the centre line of the boiler the cylinder also has to lie parallel to the boiler centre line.

What you do is plug the bore and stick a bit of wood in the sadle to take the place of the boiler I used No Nail adhesive to stick the chunk of wood where the boiler goes.

Then you mark out the boiler centre line, choosing the best position for the particular casting, all three castings I used were diferent, then you can mark off the position of the cylinder and the radius for the sadle.





Then you pick up the cylinder position and machine it.



Then turn up a mandril to fit the cylinder bore mount this up,  setting up on the scribed radius and machine the sadle, this ensures that the cylinder bore sits parallel to the boiler centre line



Her we have one of the completed cylinders.




Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire