Author Topic: Scrap Yards (Read 25826 times)

Darren · « **on:** November 13, 2008, 01:06:39 PM »

I mentioned on another thread that I have visited my local scrap yard yesterday.
I didn't collect anything from there until I went back today. Difficult to find anything as most of it was old cars and stuff.

But I did find these, and a couple of nice 20mm 3ft brass bars as well

And this, frame is alloy, bars SS, and that block is alloy.

Now come on guys, collectively I reckon you can come up with something useful to do with it?

There was a lot of old machinery there, and the biggest miller I've ever seen, it was huge. Alas it's been out in the elements for far too long. The bed was about 8ft long !!

Oh and and old single cylinder Lister looking a bit sorry for itself.

Anyways, from the first pic I took the old corroded diesel piston for a little operation on the lathe.

Anyone guess where this is going..... ;D
Pistons are made from nice quality alloy BTW ;)

bogstandard · « **Reply #1 on:** November 13, 2008, 01:28:15 PM »

Darren,

You should class youself as a real scrounger. I do exactly the same as yourself. I don't look on the surface, but what is inside.

The piston shows what I am on about, no-one would give that lump of junk a second look. But just look at the nice bit of material on the inside. The rough you could most probably get for free, the clean bit of metal inside would cost you pounds. Also, old cast iron castings can contain some of the nicest material you can come across. At one time castings were put outside, sometimes for years, to mature and relieve stresses. I think some of the old castings contain material that hasn't got an ounce of stress left in them, and it usually machines up like cutting silk. Maybe that big old mill should be tapped with a sledge, or if they will, crane it up and drop it, then gather up all the wonderful big bits that break off.

Well done

John

CrewCab · « **Reply #2 on:** November 13, 2008, 01:42:06 PM »

Quote from: Darren on November 13, 2008, 01:06:39 PM

Anyone guess where this is going..... ;D

Hmmmmmmm ................. ;) ............. I suspect we might be creating one of Ralph's favourite bit's of kit, I built one mi'self but another is on the cards as the 9x20 fitting is not conducive to Boxford ownership ;D

CC

Bernd · « **Reply #3 on:** November 13, 2008, 06:28:50 PM »

I was going to say flywheel, but when you mentioned Ralph, I got to thinking "Ball Turner". I think your right CC.

Bernd

CrewCab · « **Reply #4 on:** November 13, 2008, 07:39:24 PM »

Quote from: Bernd on November 13, 2008, 06:28:50 PM

I got to thinking "Ball Turner". I think your right CC.

Bernd

Great minds Bernd 8)

CC

Darren · « **Reply #5 on:** November 13, 2008, 08:40:26 PM »

Ha, could be ;D

But for tonight I decided to have a go with this piece from the scrappy

I cut a square off and stuck it in the 4 jaw, drilled and tapped to 6mm

And then stuck it on a bar with a 6mm threaded stub

A little while later it ended up like this

I did make the other half as well, but it's a bit late now and I don't have a pic, will sort one tomorrow.

To my utter surprise this flat steel bar machined beautifully, first time I've had a decent finish with steel. The "free cutting" steel bars I have are awful.
But then it's prob me doing something wrong, speed or something. I'll get there.

I hope you're not all bored with all these pic's, I know most of you are well past all this and have moved onto more exciting stuff..... ;D

I was just so pleased to see the steel machine so well at last, had to tell someone see... ;)

Darren

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #6 on:** November 13, 2008, 10:06:19 PM »

Darren

I don't think any of us are bored with the pictures. Keep em coming.

Eric

bogstandard · « **Reply #7 on:** November 14, 2008, 01:50:18 AM »

Darren,

Wonderful stuff.

Remember in my reply earlier in this post about 'weathering'. You just might find that because the material has sat outside for a while, all the stresses have been relieved, hence your much better machining results.

You might also find that by using ground up HSS tooling instead of tipped tooling will give much better finishes.

But if you wanted to stay with tipped tooling, I have used one of these for many years, and as long as you don't use it for interrupted cuts, can give finishes like a mirror. The added advantage is that once one part of the tool gets worn, just turn it a bit and you are onto a new cutting area. You should be able to get about 10 to 15 new faces on it before you have to throw it. Go to the bottom of the page and look at profile tools.

http://rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/INDEXABLE_LATHE_TOOLS.html

John

Darren · « **Reply #8 on:** November 14, 2008, 05:30:38 AM »

Quote from: Bernd on November 13, 2008, 06:28:50 PM

I was going to say flywheel, but when you mentioned Ralph, I got to thinking "Ball Turner". I think your right CC.

Bernd

At the mo I'm just getting a feel for turning, not quite ready to start making an engine.
But I'd like to at some point ;D

Darren · « **Reply #9 on:** November 14, 2008, 05:42:33 AM »

Hi John,

I seem to prefer tipped tooling. I believe it's because I can up the speed which helps the finish on a plain lathe having to hand feed everything. I have wondered about those round tips several times. Maybe I should invest in one and try it.
Interrupted cuts !! Yep, I lost a couple of tips last night making squares round

My crosslide lead screw is a bit worn, and last night it showed when facing larger diameters.
I was wondering about these and if I could make them fit? The female threaded parts on the slide are easy enough as they are simple brass parts.
I'm not sure if these are the right types of thread.

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TR10x2D-Trapezoidal-Spindle-Acme-Ballscrew-Leadscrew_W0QQitemZ280239661742QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET?hash=item280239661742&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRTAP-M10x2RH-Trapezoidal-Tap-Acme-Ballscrew-Leadscrew_W0QQitemZ220307826465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET?hash=item220307826465&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

I've also been wondering about a coolant setup, it could be rigged for several tools. Do they make a diff and worth the investment?

Darren

kellswaterri · « **Reply #10 on:** November 14, 2008, 06:48:56 AM »

. Maybe that big old mill should be tapped with a sledge, or if they will, crane it up and drop it, then gather up all the wonderful big bits that break off.

John
[/quote]

Hi john...just exactly what I am going to do with the Chester Conquest mill when I obtain my new mill ;D
All the best,
John.

Darren · « **Reply #11 on:** November 14, 2008, 07:03:58 AM »

Ha, just what my mill needs, similar to an Eagle 30

A half decent pillar drill it may be, a miller it's not !!

Darren

bogstandard · « **Reply #12 on:** November 14, 2008, 07:41:15 AM »

Darren,

Usually the topslide and crosslide use left hand threads, so you would need to take them out to check. Also you would need to find the pitch, otherwise your handle scales wouldn't tally to the movement obtained.

You can usually get away with just replacing the nuts.

The nuts are usually made of bronze, to take the continual stresses and wear. I have made these myself for my old Atlas lathe, but usually I make a slight modification to adjust out the wear, and it doubles the life of the leadscrew nut, but it depends if you have a little room spare around it. If there is enough meat on the old ones, you might be able to do the dead easy mod, and it would keep you going for a couple of years. I have a couple of acme taps, you would need to find out the correct size.

With regards to coolant, I used these on my old lathe and mill, and are about the cheapest you will find anywhere.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/sessionID/QOL/recno/1/product-Axminster-Coolant-System-21084.htm

They do extend tool life considerably, plus also the workpiece doesn't heat up as much and change properties half way thru machining. But goggles and apron are a neccessity, otherwise you will get rather wet, unless you fit splash guards. It is a basic system, but works well.

BTW, the mill drill that you have is what I had been using for the last ever so many years until I just upgraded. I managed to make a few nice pieces on mine, and never gave any trouble at all. It coped with everything, including this chopper frame in for modification.

Problems are usually in the mind, not with the machine.

John

Darren · « **Reply #13 on:** November 14, 2008, 08:49:41 AM »

That's a very tidy clean workshop you have there John, hope you never visit mine

To be fair I shouldn't have written that post on my miller. In all fairness it's been badly abused. It is difficult to slide the tables and one of them has a crack.

I bought it off Ebay unseen described as "perfect working condition" Two hand weels were broken and as mentioned the side problem.
Live and learn.....

The leadscrew on my lathe is 3/8 10tpi clockwise thread. I have inc a pic and hopefully you'll be able to see just how worn it is.
When winding the crosslide out it's silky smooth, but going in sticks at one point in every revolution. This transfers marks to the work.
The slide on it's own is smooth.

It's not a huge problem, but I can fit a new leadscrew at reasonable cost it has to be worth doing.
I have not stripped the compound slide yet, it works fine, I believe it uses the same acme screw but I'd have to check.

Regards
Darren

Darren · « **Reply #14 on:** November 14, 2008, 09:04:44 AM »

And pics of the two parts turned yesterday

Well that's another project that needs finishing !!

Darren

Divided he ad · « **Reply #15 on:** November 14, 2008, 04:39:18 PM »

Have I missed it... Entirely possible! .... What you making Darren?

Looks precise

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #16 on:** November 14, 2008, 06:28:44 PM »

A generator Ralph......

bogstandard · « **Reply #17 on:** November 14, 2008, 06:31:54 PM »

I don't want to sidetrack this post any more than is possible, but just to comment on Darren's leadscrew.

As you said, that is worn beyond repair. You can buy leadscrews fairly easily of this size, but from the US. If you bought say an 24" length, it would most probably do both cross and topslide. The taps for the nuts you could buy from Tracy tools.

http://www.tracytools.com/tapsanddiesacme.htm

I checked my acme taps, and they are 1/2", both left and right, so no use to you.

Screwcutting one is no problem, plus you would also make your own tap the same way. My machine is metric, so I don't know how accurate it would cut an imperial thread, I haven't got that far with it yet, otherwise I would have knocked one up for you.

John

Darren · « **Reply #18 on:** November 14, 2008, 06:44:36 PM »

Thanks John,

I think this may be worth pursuing, esp as it won't cost the earth.

I did find these, though they don't list the 3/8 size they should be able to help. The nuts look just right as well.

http://www.kingston-engineering.co.uk/data/frame3.htm

Darren

bogstandard · « **Reply #19 on:** November 15, 2008, 12:38:30 AM »

Darren,

I would send them an email, but don't worry if they don't reply. These engineering people usually have rather large minimum order prices, but on the off chance, by reading the text, it looks like they carry stock and just might have an offcut in your size.

The other way is to see if one of our colonial cousins will purchase and send you a piece. It seems to be very cheap in the US (as is almost everything). The exchange rate isn't in our favour at the moment, but it just might be a much cheaper and easier option.

John

Brass_Machine · « **Reply #20 on:** November 15, 2008, 01:41:08 AM »

Quote from: bogstandard on November 15, 2008, 12:38:30 AM

...

The other way is to see if one of our colonial cousins will purchase and send you a piece. It seems to be very cheap in the US (as is almost everything). The exchange rate isn't in our favour at the moment, but it just might be a much cheaper and easier option.

John

Darren,

I have done favors like that in the past for a few people in England and Australia. If you need the assistance, let me know.

Eric

Darren · « **Reply #21 on:** November 15, 2008, 05:32:42 AM »

Thanks Eric,

I'll post any results here and let you know how I get on.

Apreciate the offer,

Darren

Divided he ad · « **Reply #22 on:** November 15, 2008, 06:17:26 AM »

Erm.... I don't know if anyone told you this early in your life Darren.... But it's kinda hard work to "generate a Ralph!!!!" ;D 8) ;)

Oh well it made me laugh!!

So, a jenny ehh! How's that going to come from 2 interlocking discs then?? I will watch intently ;D

Ralph.

Darren · « **Reply #23 on:** November 15, 2008, 06:19:14 AM »

I'm teasing you Ralph,

It's, or going to be, a ball generator ;D ;D ;D

Darren · « **Reply #24 on:** November 16, 2008, 05:45:12 AM »

Quote from: bogstandard on November 14, 2008, 07:41:15 AM

Darren,

Usually the topslide and crosslide use left hand threads, so you would need to take them out to check. Also you would need to find the pitch, otherwise your handle scales wouldn't tally to the movement obtained.

John

I've been thinking about this John.

If the thread is 10TPI that's one 10 turns to the inch, one turn 10th of an inch, The handle scales are divided into 100 so 1thou per div.

But with 100 divs on the scale this could leave us with a good option to convert to metric could it not?

Say a screw pitch of 2mm, one turn would be 2mm, each div would be 100th of 2mm or 0.002mm. Um maybe not so clever.

1mm pitch would work out well, but prob not enough meat on the threads.

I'll think some more

Darren

Edit, the mini lathe uses 1mm pitch, Am I off track here or could this be done? I'm also wondering if this could also be cut on the mini lathe. Another little project for me maybe.

bogstandard · « **Reply #25 on:** November 16, 2008, 06:33:28 AM »

Actally Darren, your maths is off slightly, it is in fact 0.02mm, which is a standard metric lathe scale resolution.

Also 0.0254mm relates to 0.001", so very close to imperial, but not quite.

If you did both the topslide (assuming it has the same scale markings) and crosslide, you would in theory be able to convert your machine to metric. I think you said that this has no leadscrew, so it is perfectly feasible.

But be aware, 2mm pitch doesn't sound very big, but my main leadscrew is 3mm and that is nearly 1" diameter, so you would have to find out the diameter first to see if you can squeeze the screw and nut into the leadscrew tunnel.

Nothing is ever as simple as you think.

John

Darren · « **Reply #26 on:** November 16, 2008, 07:32:11 AM »

Thanks for correcting that error John ;D

This brings me back to these items, at these prices with the fact that the screw finish "should" be much better than I can manage seems to be the easiest option.

What I'm not sure about is the trapezoid thread. Do I assume this is simple the modern metric eqiv of the imperial Acme thread form?

My current screw is 3/8, a tad under 10mm dia, so the above should be fine. As long as I can machine the end. I'll have to ask the seller about that.

Yep, you are correct John, no leadscrew, so no worries there.

Darren

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TR10x2D-Trapezoidal-Spindle-Acme-Ballscrew-Leadscrew_W0QQitemZ280239661742QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET?hash=item280239661742&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/TRTAP-M10x2RH-Trapezoidal-Tap-Acme-Ballscrew-Leadscrew_W0QQitemZ220307826465QQcmdZViewItemQQptZUK_BOI_Metalworking_Milling_Welding_Metalworking_Supplies_ET?hash=item220307826465&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66%3A3|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318

Darren · « **Reply #27 on:** November 16, 2008, 07:41:43 AM »

Shaped like this

Trapezoidal

Darren

John Stevenson · « **Reply #28 on:** November 16, 2008, 07:52:00 AM »

3/8" x 10 RH is standard size thread for a Myford both cross slide and top slide.

Contact this guy.

For Sale
Tools
Breaking Myford ML7 & Super 7 lathes most parts available.We accept cards on mail order. Sorry we do not stock parts for other makes of lathes.We are open mon-fri 9-5pm.

JIm Marshall (Trade)
lathe-parts[ at ]new-or-used.co.uk
01205 480 666
Near Boston Lincs
UK

He's very good and ships worldwide.

bogstandard · « **Reply #29 on:** November 16, 2008, 08:13:30 AM »

Nice one John, just the person to tell us where to get everything from.

John

CrewCab · « **Reply #30 on:** November 16, 2008, 01:53:01 PM »

Mr Stevenson

Blimey is nowhere sacred

................ welcome aboard Sir 8)

CC

Darren · « **Reply #31 on:** November 16, 2008, 03:43:19 PM »

Part tiled the new bathroom floor today,,,oo,ps sorry wrong forum ;D

Well apart from that I stripped the compound slide on the Smart and Brown to check if all was the same there regarding the screw.
Alas it's not, same design totally, except it's a left hand thread, so one right and one left...

Ho hum, more tools to buy then......and I need a 3/8 die too or do it on the mini.....but that's no issue really.

Darren

CrewCab · « **Reply #32 on:** November 16, 2008, 03:50:27 PM »

Quote from: Darren on November 16, 2008, 03:43:19 PM

Part tiled the new bathroom floor today

No worries Darren, I (think) I finished the kitchen tiling today

just don't ask in which decade I started it

CC

dsquire · « **Reply #33 on:** November 16, 2008, 07:48:38 PM »

CC

What Century did you start it??? I just had to do it.

Don

Darren · « **Reply #34 on:** December 01, 2008, 05:03:52 AM »

Another update, decided to do a little more on this last night.
Well my ER32/MT3 collet holder and a set of collets turned up. You know how it goes, new toy and all that.
Still only armed with some new 5mm end mils I set about a little end facing and cutting a slot.

I needed a flat on one side of this disk

Finished off

Now the slot

And finally a little marking out followed with 3 center punch marks ready for drilling.

Well that was enough for one nights relaxation therapy..

HS93 · « **Reply #35 on:** December 01, 2008, 12:00:16 PM »

Are any of these correct for your needs , I have found it better to go direct to thee site than via e-bay as they have a larger range
. Plus they have the speck for most items, they are quick on delivery.

Marchant Dice Ltd

http://www.worldofcnc.com/products.asp?category=Trapezoidal&subcategory=Single+Start+Spindles

http://www.worldofcnc.com/main.asp

Peter

Darren · « **Reply #36 on:** December 01, 2008, 01:20:33 PM »

Hi Peter,

Firstly welcome to the forum and thanks for your first post.
I think you may have meant to post your message on another thread here, (just so people can follow) http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=460.0

That is where I bought my spindle and tap from, but off ebay.

Any chance you can post something in the welcome area and let us know a little about what area interest you most in machine work. I guess if you are buying spindles you are up to something interesting

Regards
Darren

Darren · « **Reply #37 on:** December 01, 2008, 02:54:33 PM »

Darn it...!!

Just broke a HSS 4mm tap in the piece....*^$%*"

Darren · « **Reply #38 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:05:43 PM »

I dug this one out from beyond the ~~grave~~ back of the drawer.

If you remember I broke a tap in it and put it aside till now.
Well with my new "killer" drill bits, tungsen carbide tipped, I decided to have a go and see if I could drill the broken 5mm HHS tap out. There was a fair bit of it in there, but what the heck, nothing ventured and all that.

Set it up ready to murder, as Bogs would say, over the offending hole....

Well no real drama, used a 4.5mm bit followed by a 5mm. All holes now done

Even the tap behaved itself, on this one I tapped a little, fully retracted, tapped a little more and so on. It was tight as the drill bit got thrown off very slightly.
The reverse feature on the new mill was nice in this instance to retract the tap. (tapped manually though) New size was 6mm.

All done and grub screws inserted into their new home.

Well, I didn't expect this to work, but that's one project saved......

bogstandard · « **Reply #39 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:10:49 PM »

Nice rescue Darren.

There is usually a way to 'fix' most things.

Bogs

Darren · « **Reply #40 on:** March 27, 2009, 06:37:17 PM »

I've just spotted something about my vice, 5 pic's up...

It's got a threaded hole in the side of it, never noticed that before. Fancy spotting it in a picture....

For a stop I guess?

Divided he ad · « **Reply #41 on:** March 27, 2009, 09:34:13 PM »

Well I never expected that to work!

Spot on!!

Quote

It's got a threaded hole in the side of it, never noticed that before. Fancy spotting it in a picture....

It's amazing what you find when you are not looking for it ehh? If it is not for a stop Darren, I'm sure it will be some time soon

So I haven't read it...... What ya makin'?

Ralph.

sbwhart · « **Reply #42 on:** March 28, 2009, 02:47:36 AM »

Blimey Darren

You got me really confused with this one

first it was a QCTP then your working on something that looks like a ball turner with a broken tap:- I'd thought I'd just woken up from a comma

Bit of back reading sorted me out though.

Nice fix by the way

Cheers

Stew

Darren · « **Reply #43 on:** March 28, 2009, 07:03:48 AM »

My workshop is like my mind Stew....all over the place

I tend to work on several things at the same time, I do a bit, think a bit, do a bit more.....

Just do something else while I'm thinking, I find it good therapy and it allows me to breathe

Divided he ad · « **Reply #44 on:** March 28, 2009, 09:42:22 AM »

Ok..... So I got the time to re-read this lot..... From November!!! No wonder I couldn't recall

So full steam ahead then....?

So you'll be making some fun bits for the end of all the handles and shafts you can find?

Keep us posted,

Ralph.

News:

Author Topic: Scrap Yards (Read 25826 times)

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard

bogstandard