Author Topic: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations  (Read 46319 times)

Offline 1hand

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Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« on: February 03, 2011, 12:48:02 AM »

I have a need to finish smaller parts. I've been looking around for info on this type of process, and have found bits and pieces of information, lots of different "mixtures", and time of process.

I'm going to log my go at some of these different ways, products, time frames, to see what kind of results I can get.

I'm going to start off with these different tumblers for different stages of the process.



The different mediums to play around with





Some of the different Mixing products



And of course, how longs it gonna take in each process


If anyone has a "secret recipe", let me know. I would like to try it. :smart:

Matt

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #1 on: February 03, 2011, 01:29:12 AM »
Kenneth,

Thanks for posting. I want to try some Wet tumbling on some different kinds of metals is why I opp for the rotary as well as the vibratory tumbler, and maybe would work for some larger pieces that wouldn't fit in the vibatory.

If nothing else........My real job is running a rock crushing plant, so I always could bring home some rocks, and throw in to polish. The kiddos would get a kick out of that.

Matt

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #2 on: February 03, 2011, 01:34:36 AM »
BTW.........Nice CLock Man! :headbang:

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #3 on: February 03, 2011, 02:19:16 AM »
Matt,

Having followed your thinking and process for a while now, great pics you sent me BTW, and understand that maybe fairly soon you could get yourself into a situation where you won't have time enough to do everything yourself. Tumbling products can be a very time consuming exercise.

A few years ago, I was looking at setting up a small tumbling process in a factory I was trying to get the processes straightened up in. Eventually, we only installed one vibratory unit, that could be left running almost permanently day and night, it is a very slow process. The rest was sent for outside processing.

To cut a long story short. Search out a business that does it for a living, preferably local. They have the expertise to get whatever finish you require on whatever materials you need to use. I found that they were much cheaper than trying to do processes in house, as they are set up with all the machines and mediums you could ever need, especially where a one man band like yourself is concerned, where eventually, when your business takes off, you won't have the time to do everything yourself.

I know it is good to do it yourself at this time, experimenting and enjoying what you are doing, but in the long run, look to take a bit of the pressure off yourself, as later, your time will become a very important commodity that will be in short supply. Look to get processes into position now, rather than later, so when the time does come, you will know exactly where to go, and can be set up very quickly.


John
If you don't try it, you will never know if you can do it.

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Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #4 on: February 03, 2011, 02:41:31 AM »
Thanks Bogs,

I have done that with the "Machining End" Checked around from different local production shops, incase this does take off. I got their prices, and built that into my bundle price that I'm taking to meet with the distubtor of my product. If their interested in my product, I will wash my hands of that whole deal, and let someone else sweat over my totorances. The "one off" stuff, is what I really want to do in my shop. Where I'm working right with the end user, to modify what ever they need for their own speical needs. Basicly this is going to be more for my personal shop, and not set for high production.

Matt

Offline picclock

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #5 on: February 03, 2011, 02:57:15 AM »
@1hand

I'll be very interested in the results you obtain from the different methods. Are you going to produce a set of identical parts in different materials then process them by the different methods for comparison ?

types of metal x types of abrasive x vibratory method x [time]

How are you going to interpret the results ? Do you have a machine for measuring roughness or is it an eyeball it and score job.

It's a lot of work, but the results produced will be well worth it. Even if the results are partial, that is not all combinations tried, it would still give give a useful guide and pointers to the best combinations likely to succeed.

Good luck in your endevour, and thanks for sharing with the community.

Best Regards

picclock



 

Engaged in the art of turning large pieces of useful material into ever smaller pieces of (s)crap. (Ferndown, Dorset)

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2011, 03:27:33 AM »
@1hand

I'll be very interested in the results you obtain from the different methods. Are you going to produce a set of identical parts in different materials then process them by the different methods for comparison ?

types of metal x types of abrasive x vibratory method x [time]

How are you going to interpret the results ? Do you have a machine for measuring roughness or is it an eyeball it and score job.

It's a lot of work, but the results produced will be well worth it. Even if the results are partial, that is not all combinations tried, it would still give give a useful guide and pointers to the best combinations likely to succeed.

Good luck in your endevour, and thanks for sharing with the community.

Best Regards

picclock

Thanks for the encouragement! I plan on doing just as you stated, for it will be trial and error. I'm just looking for the visual differances. Mainly I looking for a good base line, for different Metals, "Method, Media, and Time".

Like Bogs said its a timely process. I geussing some could take up to 4 or 5 days to complete, but It will only take a few minutes each day to switch Media or Method, and your free to do what you wish with your time inbetween. :coffee: Instead of where in the hell did that part go, as the buffer wheel ripped it from your hand. :scratch:

Matt

Offline Jonny

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #7 on: February 03, 2011, 11:06:03 AM »
Wish i could have found this lot out 4 years ago, i had a right ball ache of a job to do. Parts too small to hold and heat builds up quick mop polishing often too late when you feel it.
Over here theres not much info or even places to buy different media to even try. Have a butchers on lapidary mainly for the odd diy rock.

Subbing out very expensive and was going to have made and import a vibratory tumbler from US with interchangeable bowls for different media. Carriage on the media way too expensive for smallish quantities from US, likewise ripped off in UK for having to buy several of each in small quantities.

Meister yours doesnt show much if at all any edges rounding off, is that due to only using the finish rather than go through the grades?
Also does it open up threaded holes?

Hate mop polishing, just had a job go missing on route to CA, took me months to psyche myself up last time but part jewelled it.


Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #8 on: February 03, 2011, 11:09:51 AM »
I too shall be watching for your results. I use a simple rotary tumbler with steel BB's for de-burring small pieces (AL, Brass)  Does a nice job in smoothing the sharp edges off in a uniform manner. Much better than by hand.

Good luck in your endeavour, as I sit here reaching for my cup of coffee, I wonder just how that would happen without the fingers I take for granted being always attached to the end of my arm.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #9 on: February 03, 2011, 11:53:00 AM »
I too shall be watching for your results. I use a simple rotary tumbler with steel BB's for de-burring small pieces (AL, Brass)  Does a nice job in smoothing the sharp edges off in a uniform manner. Much better than by hand.

Good luck in your endeavour, as I sit here reaching for my cup of coffee, I wonder just how that would happen without the fingers I take for granted being always attached to the end of my arm.

Robert

Not much of a coffee drinker, but you just make do! :ddb:


Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #10 on: February 03, 2011, 12:28:04 PM »

Not much of a coffee drinker, but you just make do! :ddb:


Matt

I can see it now, no officer, I wasnt . . .

Glad I didn't wonder bout the 1 up 1 down and 1 for polish  :coffee:

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #11 on: February 03, 2011, 08:28:36 PM »
  Notice the spacing on the parts the way they are set in.  The parts will follow a torus shape as they "march" around the bowl and will not rattle against each other leaving good edges.  Instead they follow spaced a little bit just like little soldiers and they all come out with crips edges.


That would also mean you would want to stick with same size and shaped parts in the same batch also?

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #12 on: February 03, 2011, 08:58:12 PM »
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3012198/Deburring-Metal-Finishing-Information-Booklet

Easy to read info on the subject, gives comments on the types of tumblers and usage. Seems that the ratio of media to part load has a lot to do with part collisions.  Rotary tumbler gives better edge radius while the vibratory type gives a better finish, least that's what I got from it so far.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #13 on: February 03, 2011, 09:56:49 PM »
http://www.scribd.com/doc/3012198/Deburring-Metal-Finishing-Information-Booklet

Easy to read info on the subject, gives comments on the types of tumblers and usage. Seems that the ratio of media to part load has a lot to do with part collisions.  Rotary tumbler gives better edge radius while the vibratory type gives a better finish, least that's what I got from it so far.

Robert

The part on Compounds is interesting.

"I find that the problem is the compound. They’re either not using the right kind (substituting simple green, etc.) or not using the compound correctly"

There goes that Idea :doh:

Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #14 on: February 03, 2011, 10:50:02 PM »


The part on Compounds is interesting.

"I find that the problem is the compound. They’re either not using the right kind (substituting simple green, etc.) or not using the compound correctly"

There goes that Idea :doh:

Matt

 :bang:  I usually read all I can on a subject till information overload occurs, still wondering why Spot is running, oh ya back to subject, then its just grab some stuff and give it a try.

So ya make up some coupons, toss em in the machine and see what happens. As mentioned earlier, taking items to a PRO shop might be the way to go in the end, the hobby aspect demands some trial and error.

I like the walnut shell with green rouge as a final step presented. Finish looks good, its the in-between that is awaiting your documented outcome. I'm still at the steel BB's for debur stage.

Robert


 :bang:
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline Bogstandard

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2011, 01:43:25 AM »
What you really need Matt is one product that gives the right finish every time.

Maybe this one will do all the jobs you have in mind.




 :lol: :lol:


John
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 01:45:14 AM by bogstandard »
If you don't try it, you will never know if you can do it.

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Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2011, 05:53:52 PM »
Bogs, that a one step polish?

Well I have enough stuff to get started.

These are the scrap pieces for trial #1


I'm starting off with a deburring in the Rotary tumbler.

This batch consists of

8 cups of 3/8" Course Ceramic Media
4 cups of water
1 oz of Simple Green
1 oz of Nu Finish



All in a 1gal jug



And on the rollers



I haven't decided how long I'm going to let this first stage go. I'm going to check them in 3hours.
Matt


Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2011, 08:25:12 PM »
Ya its really tough to depict to results to you guys with the camara I got. I guess in the end, If you can see the camara in the reflection of the part, it was a success :beer:


Any pointers on taking better pics?
 :worthless:

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2011, 09:09:14 PM »
This first test, I want to see how different shape/size parts work together. Some one say building a model engine, would only have 1 or 2 same shape part at a time, but would have a batch of parts of the same material.

Before


After 3hours in first mixture.



I'm happy with the results. Saw burrs are gone, corners are intact, and the have a very nice gun metal finish


Now for the second mixture

I'll use the same amount of media, but a medium ceramic
only 2 cups of water this time
3 oz of the nu finish
1 oz of simple green

I'm think 3 more hours

Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2011, 09:13:29 PM »
  I've got a friend who lives up at the top of Camano Isl

Not the Green Island Manor place?  

Think 1Hand is Medford WI


Robert
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 09:29:40 PM by foozer »
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2011, 09:25:43 PM »


I'm happy with the results. Saw burrs are gone, corners are intact, and the have a very nice gun metal finish

Matt

Looks nice, edges look evenly radius'd. Tomorrow Ill find a nice sharp edged piece and stick it in the rotary for a bit. Will be just using steel BB's as the debur agent.

Awaiting the package of various grits to arrive so I can occupy some time doing that Important Guy Stuff.

Robert
« Last Edit: February 04, 2011, 09:30:08 PM by foozer »
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #21 on: February 04, 2011, 09:41:28 PM »
Yup, a Chesse Head I Am.

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2011, 01:05:09 AM »
3 hours in the second mixture, and results are about the same with a smoother finish. Still a dull gun metal color.

My pic wouldn't show the difference, but there is a difference to touch thats noticable.

I exchanged the Medium ceramic to a fine. I now filled the barrel 3/4 full with media. Fuller than with the last too batches. I filled with water til I could just see it in the media. About 4oz of the nu finish, and 2oz of the simple green. This will be the last rotary step in this trial. I will leave this one run for 8hrs while I take a nap.

Next I will take them to the vibratory tumbler, and start out with a red rouge and nut shells for 8hrs.

The last step I'll try in the Vibratory will be with corn media with the green rouge and a dash of liquid brass polish for 10 plus hrs.

I read if you put strips of fabric dryer sheets in with dry media, it helps cut the dust. :scratch:

Matt
« Last Edit: February 05, 2011, 01:08:40 AM by 1hand »

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2011, 02:38:43 AM »
So far so good for ya. Are you happy with the edge detail so far? or does the polish wheel still have its appeal? Wonder if its the soap that imparting the color


I put a rough piece of brass about 1 inch in dia in a rotary tumbler with 1/2 cup steel BB's (Daisy) dry. Piece started with edges that would (did) cut my finger. Let it run for an hour.  Now I have a rough piece of brass with edges smooth as a baby's bottom. No cut de finger. Not enough resolution on the camera to see. Now the same piece is in the rotary with 1/4 pound of 80 grit silicon carbide (came in mail today) and 1/2 cup water. Going to let it run till morning.

Probably why its said to use stainless balls for debur. The cheap steel ones do impart a dark colour to AL, a dull grey, but it does polish off.

After the 80 grit (if any of the piece is left I'll do a 220 then a 500. Nothing else but a curious adventure and what the heck, nothing ventured, nothing messed up.


Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2011, 03:08:51 AM »
I'm interested in the grits your using. Is it like a powder? The rotary came with some stuff for rocks thats fine like a powder.

I not worried yet about the color. These 3 first steps are for get the texture right. Its the last 2 that will make her bling I hope.

If I dont turn my buffing wheel on again won't hurt my feelings......or fingers.


I want try this red stuff next. Its geared more towards brass, but the courser media and rouge is the baby step I wanta try before the final rub with the soft stuff.

When using a liqiud polish with the dry media, we are only talking an tsp. to 12 cups of dry media.

We will see what happens 2moro. If its a bust we start over, and adjust.

I figure about 2 or 3 more 12pks I have this polishing down. :beer:

Matt