Author Topic: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations  (Read 46102 times)

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2011, 11:30:39 AM »
I'm interested in the grits your using. Is it like a powder? The rotary came with some stuff for rocks thats fine like a powder.

I figure about 2 or 3 more 12pks I have this polishing down. :beer:

Matt

Yup, the powder grit is geared more for rock, sand paper without the paper. Looked at the piece this morning, the outside circumference has a nice frosted feel to it, nice and even. The faces appear hardly touched, but they were hacksaw cuts so do not really qualify in the example. I did put a good fingernail catcher scratch (0.001 -0.002?) upon the circumference to use as a reference. It is just about gone. Trying to get an idea of how much material is removed vs. time - grit.

Give it another 5-6 hours and switch it over to the 220 grit. I know the object is to remove as little material as possible to achieve the best possible finish but like sighting in the 44 mag gotta have a wide range to start with. Spent 20 years listening to the "We've always done it this way" without any explanation as to why, most cases no one actually knew, also spent a few weekends working and grumbling as the "why" had turned into "OH! Thats WHY." Darn tool room never did stock those cans of Edge Margin or that mysterious part stretcher tool.

Rotary tumbler also seems to be sensitive to the amount of media contained. Too much and the parts don't get trapped reducing the slide time. Seems should be just enough so the media and part is carried up the side leaving just enough ramp for the parts to fall, slide down against.

Coffee, that's what I need. UPS slow boat to bring the vibratory tumbler one of these days.

Robert

Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2011, 11:40:22 AM »
I'm interested in the grits your using. Is it like a powder? The rotary came with some stuff for rocks thats fine like a powder.

I figure about 2 or 3 more 12pks I have this polishing down. :beer:

Matt

Yup, the powder grit is geared more for rock, sand paper without the paper. Looked at the piece this morning, the outside circumference has a nice frosted feel to it, nice and even. The faces appear hardly touched, but they were hacksaw cuts so do not really qualify in the example. I did put a good fingernail catcher scratch (0.001 -0.002?) upon the circumference to use as a reference. It is just about gone. Trying to get an idea of how much material is removed vs. time - grit.

Give it another 5-6 hours and switch it over to the 220 grit. I know the object is to remove as little material as possible to achieve the best possible finish but like sighting in the 44 mag gotta have a wide range to start with. Spent 20 years listening to the "We've always done it this way" without any explanation as to why, most cases no one actually knew, also spent a few weekends working and grumbling as the "why" had turned into "OH! Thats WHY." Darn tool room never did stock those cans of Edge Margin or that mysterious part stretcher tool.

Rotary tumbler also seems to be sensitive to the amount of media contained. Too much and the parts don't get trapped reducing the slide time. Seems should be just enough so the media and part is carried up the side leaving just enough ramp for the parts to fall, slide down against.

Coffee, that's what I need. UPS slow boat to bring the vibratory tumbler one of these days.

Robert



I look at the rotary as the deburr and rough polish. I think its going to easier to get repeatable results in the vibratory for the end finish.

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2011, 11:54:14 AM »

I look at the rotary as the deburr and rough polish. I think its going to easier to get repeatable results in the vibratory for the end finish.


Your right, it does quick work on the edge debur. Agree on your conclusion to the vibratory results. I putt around so should any one ask as to why I do something a certain way I can say in a voice backed by failure, "I tried the other methods" Let me tell ya what happen, kids then would go off a-running "Quick! get out of here, Dads gonna tell another story" :) Most times an hour or so talk about why, gave better results than them getting grounded, but that's another story.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #28 on: February 05, 2011, 12:06:08 PM »
  :scratch:             I'm thinking this thing would mix up a hell of drink, if nothing else.  :headbang:

Russel

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #29 on: February 05, 2011, 01:02:20 PM »
[...]
Any pointers on taking better pics?
 [...]

Just the basics...

It looks like you are using a Nikon coolpix S220. I recommend using close-up 'scene mode', using a small tripod, and using the self timer to prevent motion blur.

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #30 on: February 05, 2011, 01:33:46 PM »

 [...][/quote]

Just the basics...

It looks like you are using a Nikon coolpix S220.
[/quote]

How in the...............Man your good. I'm going to town for a movie with the fam, I'll look for a cheapy tri pod.

Thanks I'll try that out.


Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #31 on: February 05, 2011, 02:13:21 PM »
Yours can focus down to 4 inches as says the manual

Macro mode is used for taking pictures of objects as close as 10 cm (4 in.). Note
that the flash may be unable to light entire subject at distances of less than 60 cm
(2 ft.).

Your photo info comes up under file properties

Image Type: jpeg (The JPEG image format)
Width: 640 pixels
Height: 480 pixels
Camera Brand: NIKON
Camera Model: COOLPIX S220
Date Taken: 2011:02:04 16:06:44
Exposure Time: 1/58 sec.
ISO Speed Rating: 379
Flash Fired: Flash did not fire, auto mode.
Metering Mode: Pattern
Exposure Program: Normal program
Focal Length: 6.3 mm
Software: COOLPIX S220V1.0
Description:               

 far better than my POS at 8 inches

Macro mode, delay timer and a tri-pod will put ya in the infield.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #32 on: February 05, 2011, 02:19:58 PM »
I thought I had it in macro mode???? the little flower is on the screen.

Will need a walk through when I get back.


Matt

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #33 on: February 05, 2011, 03:11:50 PM »
I have  been experimenting with a vibratory tumbler also. I have been using a product called ' Microbrite' that I got from the Eastwood Co. Also got some liquid soap that you are supposed to use with it. This is a 'burnishing' media and is comprised of 3mm ceramic balls. From another website I was told that ceramic media needs to be 'broken in' for 12 hours or more before it is effective. I have only run a small batch for a few hours but I would say it is indeed  burnishing the aluminum. I will get some pics up when the project is complete.



I also want to try rotary tumbling. I have a barrel and some stainless steel media on its way from Rio Gande. They have a huge selection of tumblers and media. A website called "steelmedia.com" suggests that the best  combination for polishing aluminum is:

40% 2mm balls
40% 3mm balls
40% 3mm ballcones





Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #34 on: February 05, 2011, 03:23:22 PM »
Well, I hit 'post' instead of 'preview'   The company name is Rio Grande, not Rio Gande.

Also, I found this interesting 3 part video on You Tube. The information given seems to be in German, but my online translator isn't giving me all the info. It appears he is using 6mm balls at 72 r.p.m.

"Im Video ist eine Trommelpolieranlage, gefüllt mit 6,0 mm Edelstahlkugeln, zu sehen. Angetrieben wird die Anlage mit einem DC-Servomotor und einem Getriebe 1:71. Als Medium kommt Wasser und ein leicht saurer Polierzusatz in die Trommel.
Dauer des Vorganges ca. 6 Stunden, Drehzahl der Trommel ca. 70 U/Min. Poliert wurde hier Aluminium AlMgSi0,5, es sind vor dem Poliervorgang keinerlei Vorarbeiten mehr nötig. Ergibt schöne verrundete Kanten und eine Oberfläche wie verchromt (natürlich mit der für diese Bearbeitungmethode typischen Orangenhaut).
Es folgen noch zwei weitere Videos mit dem Ergebnis. "

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SAZMe1cVd6Y&NR=1


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k5J8IxoaR68&NR=1




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CY1npcEltGg&NR=1

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #35 on: February 05, 2011, 11:16:03 PM »
That rotary is cool that you can see whats going on inside.

I'm not getting near the results he did, Mine still a dull gray. I might have to get some balls  :bugeye:


Snub, keep us posted on your results.

Matt



Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #36 on: February 06, 2011, 12:02:00 AM »
That rotary is cool that you can see whats going on inside.

I'm not getting near the results he did, Mine still a dull gray. I might have to get some balls  :bugeye:

Matt

Ill get a shot tomorrow of a piece that is going from that dull grey to more of a shine.

Had tried copper coated BB's and that leaves a dull black finish on AL, The steel ones leave a dull grey finish. Those stainless balls are doing the burnish job giving that nice shiny look.

Your media choices should be stable so as not to transfer material, perhaps the color is coming from the additives. So a batch run with just media and water?

Still running a piece in the 220 grit and water. Will check it in the AM.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #37 on: February 06, 2011, 12:10:46 AM »
That rotary is cool that you can see whats going on inside.

I'm not getting near the results he did, Mine still a dull gray. I might have to get some balls  :bugeye:

Matt

Ill get a shot tomorrow of a piece that is going from that dull grey to more of a shine.

Had tried copper coated BB's and that leaves a dull black finish on AL, The steel ones leave a dull grey finish. Those stainless balls are doing the burnish job giving that nice shiny look.

Your media choices should be stable so as not to transfer material, perhaps the color is coming from the additives. So a batch run with just media and water?

Still running a piece in the 220 grit and water. Will check it in the AM.

Robert

Ya, next round no additives. :thumbup:

POS cam w/POS tri pod:




Any better???

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #38 on: February 06, 2011, 12:49:42 AM »
Much better shots, I'm gonna have to grab the kids camera to get shots like that.

Pulled a piece out of the 220 grit. Grit is messy and may get put into the round file.

Shows the dull grey color left from the steel ball debur operation being removed (this piece didnt go thru the 80 grit stage)  Grit is messy, the 220 does the finger stick, think the 500 will be just to easy to have travel into the house, chips are bad enough, Bride will skin me for sure if the grit spots start showing up :)

Did I say that Grit is messy stuff?

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #39 on: February 06, 2011, 12:25:43 PM »

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #40 on: February 06, 2011, 01:06:15 PM »
Works for me, another order coming up after I wipe the drool off me chin

Did I mention Grit was messy?

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #41 on: February 06, 2011, 02:40:37 PM »
What you thinking foozer..................SS balls, or Mix? What size?



Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #42 on: February 06, 2011, 03:12:01 PM »
Im thinking SS balls (dry) probably in the 1/8 inch range just for a debur operation. Really like how the BB's clean the edges up. Nice even radius. Grab a tube of daisys (real cheap) and toss a sharp edged piece in.  The SS balls should hold up for repeat usage.

For finish I'm leaning towards walnut shell and Simichrome. No reason other than when this thread first started I thunk to myself, sounds interesting, next day I had to go check out a rental that the tenants moved out of and there it was, a 20 pound bag of walnut shell cage litter. OK that works. The in between steps? Im watching you :)  Did I mention grit is messy!

The in-between stage is one of them dependant upon the finish being presented. Want to remove as little material as possible and still get rid of any tool marks.

Still watching how the 220 grit is doing against the scratch mark I put in the piece. When the piece is all frosted over Ill switch to the 500 grit just for shits and giggles. I am not going to use Grit for future use, Did I mention grit is messy? but some equivalent product has yet to be looked at. Like most things, Ill put the choices up on the wall and throw a dart to see one is best.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #43 on: February 06, 2011, 03:36:38 PM »
The shell and cob media in my splined test pieces is a mess. I'm going to get some burnishing compound they have, is nice to only buy a few oz., instead of a 5gal pail through mc carr.

Is burnishing and polishing the same thing??

I am happy with the ceramic media results. I like the way it deburrs the pieces. Still not getting the shine from the dry media that that guy's video with the SS balls. I don't know yet, but think the dry media may be the way to go when the brass trials start.

I wonder what kinda of "volume" a pound or ten pounds of the stainless steel media is?

10 lbs of ceramic is about 1 gal
6 to 7lbs of shell/cob is bout 1 gal
???lbs of SS is about 1gal

 

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #44 on: February 06, 2011, 04:27:31 PM »
1 cup of BB's, steel, is just about 2 pounds, there 4.5 mm or so the container says. I dislike metric just cant visualise it.

I think burnish is a straight metal to metal contact and polishing has some fine abrasive additive. If left long enough the dry  SS should give a nice shiny. Plan of attack so far is just to use the balls for smoothing off the sharp edges and switch over to the finish process.

Been a couple of suggestions made so far as to use of a final, similar products designed to carry a polish compound. Trick is to settle on one that will do the job in a reasonable time frame (subjective of course), holds up to repeated use, and that wont break the bank in the process. Can't have Prime Rib on a burger budget and maintain this nice round figure. Crap now I'm hungry again.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #45 on: February 06, 2011, 04:39:56 PM »
Do you think there will be a noticable difference between steel media and stainless media?

Because there $ is sure noticeable.

Do you think running a cheap plastic media to take up some volume with the steel/stainless media would work?

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #46 on: February 06, 2011, 04:50:52 PM »
Ya I just looked at SS media. I can get a lot of BB's for what is wanted for SS. Later today I'll have a good part that will need a debur. This piece is a keeper and I'm going to use just straight Daisy steel BB's. Will grab the kids camera and get the before-after shots.

Game day and the Bucket of KFC has my name written all over it, not abig  football fan but the commercials are a hoot.

When you start designing Inspector Gadget forearm add-on's, like the pop-up flash-light to locate the keyhole, built in cell phone holder . . . too many cartoons in my day :)

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #47 on: February 06, 2011, 06:51:18 PM »
Who got the 16lbs for $51???

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #48 on: February 06, 2011, 09:31:58 PM »
I'm going to try SS pins and SS balls when they get here :clap:


Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #49 on: February 06, 2011, 10:01:05 PM »
I'm going to try SS pins and SS balls when they get here :clap:


UPS seems slow when waiting

Got a piece Inch or so long, Inch or so in dia with nice sharp edges and a fairly decent finish (for me) in the tumbler now. Will check it in an hour (watching Puppy Bowl with the Bride, things ya gotta do to keep harmony)

Robert

Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection