Author Topic: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations  (Read 34767 times)

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #50 on: February 06, 2011, 10:04:05 PM »
This game is going to get me a heartattack!!! :zap:

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #51 on: February 06, 2011, 10:18:17 PM »
Try to be excited with Chickens as Cheerleaders, Hamsters in the blimp and Cats doing the half time show.

Yes Dear this is very entertaining

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #52 on: February 06, 2011, 11:05:42 PM »
About an hour of tumbling with good old Steel BB's. Taken the sharpness off the edges with no other noticeable material removal. Ill give it another hour or so and take a peek.

All I'm looking for right now is a repeatable, easy debur operation.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #53 on: February 06, 2011, 11:51:48 PM »
About an hour of tumbling with good old Steel BB's. Taken the sharpness off the edges with no other noticeable material removal. Ill give it another hour or so and take a peek.

All I'm looking for right now is a repeatable, easy debur operation.

Robert

Looks good. I forgot, are you using a rotary, or vibratory?

I have jar of my sons BBs here, but there the copper coated ones. Wonder what would happen if............ :scratch:

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #54 on: February 06, 2011, 11:58:18 PM »
Rotary tumbler, from what I have read this type works better at debur while the vibratory does better at finish.

Oh  current run is with 1/2 cup of the copper coated BB's dry. Part if left in overnight will get a dull black color to it. Might just leave it in overnight, the BB's wont remove any material so . . .   famous last words? Maybe Ill go down and check it

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #55 on: February 07, 2011, 12:01:38 AM »
Is your barrel/tube/tub round or hex shaped?

Matt

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #56 on: February 07, 2011, 01:24:20 AM »
I'm glad to know I'm not the only one experimenting with this stuff. There seems to be no right or wrong, but what works for you with the material you are using.

My stuff from Rio Grande arrived yesterday. Haven't had time to use it, but would like to show you what I got.

First is the barrel for the rotary tumbler. I was planning on building my own but found this small 'replacement barrel' for $30.00 If all works out I will build a larger one. The hexagonal barrels apparently give the best results.












Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #57 on: February 07, 2011, 01:30:57 AM »
Snub,

Wow thats a nice looking tumbler!!! You build it yourself?

I have just a round barrel. I going to try getting results from that first.


Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #58 on: February 07, 2011, 01:35:57 AM »
Is your barrel/tube/tub round or hex shaped?

Matt

Round, with indents to carry up the material. So far am happy with it as to debur. The kids old rock tumbler. Vibratory is on order.

Like the Hex unit just posted by Snub, simple, good capacity for small pieces. Nice DIY project.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #59 on: February 07, 2011, 01:38:52 AM »
Don't know what I'm doing wrong, but I can only post so much and it all goes for crap so I will continue here.

The Super Sunsheen Burnishing Liquid. Lots of info on the label:





This is the 'mix' from Rio Grande:



The 3/32 and 5/32 ellipses. They are round but have a flat spot on each end. That is done on purpose, I imagine:




Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #60 on: February 07, 2011, 01:49:09 AM »
Like it. Agree it seems to be what works for the person yet shared info does narrow down the choices. Like that barrel, Can see having a couple, three units each dedicated to a step process.

Post your trials, more the better

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #61 on: February 07, 2011, 01:57:38 AM »
More add ons:

If the shot is not stainless steel it will rust immediately in water, making a mess of your work. You can use it but you have to clean it often. It's just better to go with stainless.

The little barrel I bought has a capacity of 3 pounds of shot.

Regarding this small barrel, Rio Grande says:

Add 3# metal shot.
Add your workpieces 4 parts media to 1 part workpiece by volume.
Add compound solution to the barrel until solution is 1/2" above the level of the media.
Tumble.

Offline picclock

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #62 on: February 07, 2011, 06:53:20 AM »
Hi Snub

That hexagonal tumbler looks good. What stops the tumbler sides from abrading and becoming opaque ?. I have a 4x6" drum which is rubber lined presumably to prevent this problem.


Very impressive results on the parts. How long did you tumble and at what speed ?

Thanks for sharing

picclock
Engaged in the art of turning large pieces of useful material into ever smaller pieces of (s)crap. (Ferndown, Dorset)

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #63 on: February 07, 2011, 10:05:48 AM »
This is great guys keep it coming. :ddb:



I did some more searching last night on burnishing compounds. Lot of guys using Dawn dish soap. Some say no difference, some say there is a better shine using a regular burnishing compound. I ordered the 5/32" SS shot and some of the the dry compound to try.


920 Powder Compound   
 
 
Item Number: 339008
Use for sterling silver, gold, brass, copper, zinc and aluminum. Helps inhibit rust on carbon steel shot. Mix three ounces of powder with one gallon of water. Compatible media: carbon or stainless steel and porcelain

I found some cheaper SS Pins on ebay also. 1/8" x 1"

Matt




Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #64 on: February 07, 2011, 10:29:45 AM »

While we are on tumbling and surface finishes...  One of the best things you can do is start with a good finish so that all of the processing steps that follow only improve on a good thing.  Yeah, probably didn't need to state that for this group here, it kind of falls into the 'well ... duh' bin.  Anywho, thought I'd share, one of those great steps for aluminium that I almost never remember until I'm actually at the machine is to pick up a piece of scotch brite. 


Scotch brite does works well, quick swipe or four and a lot of the minor tool marks are gone. And yes it needs to be stressed that the end product is only as good as what is started with. A piece with tool marks to start will be a piece with nice and shiny tool marks at end.

So far at least for me

Shot: Preferably Stainless, works well to debur. This operation of course can be done with a file, sandpaper, yet for small pieces its hard to keep it from becoming too rounded over. Couple hours in a dry tumble with shot and the edges are crisp and clean yet you'd have to work hard to cut something with it.

Grit: Forget it, although it will remove minor tool marks and leave a semi finish (500 grit) it is just to darn messy for repeatable. Its bad enough to have that chip trail following me around, no need to compound it with black grit.

Media and Part load: Follow the chosen media's manufactures suggestion, at least start with it. Banking on their testing history which developed the process.

Media tool mark removal: unknown for me at this time

Media Finish:  Limited only by the depth of ones pocket. I for one am going the walnut shell with compound mix. From what I have seen it should do the job for my usage.

Robert

Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #65 on: February 07, 2011, 10:37:22 AM »
This is great guys keep it coming. :ddb:

I did some more searching last night on burnishing compounds. Lot of guys using Dawn dish soap. Some say no difference, some say there is a better shine using a regular burnishing compound. I ordered the 5/32" SS shot and some of the the dry compound to try.


Have done some hand burnishing, the pushing the clad back over minor AP skin scratches, miserable process. Just used Vaseline as a lubricant. Idea was to smooth the metal without removing any. So the soap, ya I can see it. Pure AL is so soft that a dry rub creates enough heat to mar the surface. The lub should allow the material to smooth without an actual metal to metal contact.

Me thinks I'm over-thinking  it when it should be a Yup That works

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #66 on: February 07, 2011, 04:06:28 PM »
Hi Snub

That hexagonal tumbler looks good. What stops the tumbler sides from abrading and becoming opaque ?.

picclock

I haven't had a chance to use it yet, but I imagine it won't take long before the sides become hard to see through. The middle part of the ends should remain clear.

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #67 on: February 07, 2011, 09:59:34 PM »
Well I can report upon one thing not to do. Using Grit, something that when this experiment is over, will not be using again. Brain Fart, why not just add some good old WD40 into the dry grit mix, what can it hurt. Took a while to notice that the "Thump, Thump" noise was gone. Opened the tumbler and the grit WD40 mix had turned into something akin to baby POO!

Took a while to clean it up,  Did I mention that grit was messy!!!

Grit 1
Me  0

Grit Trashcan 0
Me                  1

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #68 on: February 07, 2011, 10:41:02 PM »
Mad scientists we are. :smart: Save the grit for rocks, I got it.

I feel a success coming shortly from somebody. :clap:


Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #69 on: February 07, 2011, 11:34:04 PM »
Tracking shows my Rio order will be here friday. The next run of parts Is going to be the real deal. I need to get my wrist parts done, to meet with a potential distributor. :whip:

Next round will be the 1" stub shafts with the splines and tapped set screw holes. I going to start off with a mix of medium and fine ceramic for deburring in the rotary, then the 1/8" Needles SS in the rotary to start the polish, and finish up in the vibratory with the 5/32 SS shot. :bow:

I'm going to run my 5 extra parts first to fine tune any problems, and cross our fingers for the production batch. :palm:

Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2011, 12:06:54 AM »
Mad scientists we are. :smart: Save the grit for rocks, I got it.

I feel a success coming shortly from somebody. :clap:



Rocks YUP, now the Brides on me, Oh you can polish rocks, pulls out a bag of raw something or other supposed to be perty stones that females get all ga ga over, bats her eyes and Boy, now I'm in trouble.

Did I mention grit is messy.

Be watching your progress on your next run.  SS balls for finish? I'm still brain stuck on trying walnut shell with compound for the final. better check that tracking number and see what slow boat the new tumbler is on.

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline 1hand

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2011, 12:29:32 AM »
The fine cob/walnut media fills them splines in this particular part like crazy. I could hardly pick the shi stuff out with a screwdriver. These parts don't need to be mirrors, just a smooth deburred semi shine.

Matt

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2011, 01:09:40 AM »
The fine cob/walnut media fills them splines in this particular part like crazy. I could hardly pick the shi stuff out with a screwdriver. These parts don't need to be mirrors, just a smooth deburred semi shine.

Matt

Got ya, now I remember you mentioned that before, good now ill remember it as a limitation.

Learning all the time

Robert
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection

Offline snub

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2011, 02:40:23 AM »
I'm wondering if anyone has used  'popping' corn as a media for burnishing or polishing. It's cheap as dirt, like $2 a pound. I bought some but haven't had a chance to try it. It is hard but I don't know if it will soften when mixed with polishing compound. Maybe ...rice?  Also cheap. Marbles? Crushed glass...very cheap!

Offline foozer

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Re: Tumbler Trials & Tribulations
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2011, 03:36:38 AM »
I'm wondering if anyone has used  'popping' corn as a media for burnishing or polishing. It's cheap as dirt, like $2 a pound. I bought some but haven't had a chance to try it. It is hard but I don't know if it will soften when mixed with polishing compound. Maybe ...rice?  Also cheap. Marbles? Crushed glass...very cheap!

Have come across talks like that in looking over goggle results. Feeling I got from it all was that yes it'll work at the expense of time and or media changes as the softer ones wear out. I chose the walnut shell as a final for two reasons. Seemed to pop up in a majority of the discussions, the first choice as the type already containing a type of compound and second the litter type available at pet stores which works best with an additive. 

I can let the dry shells tumble for a week or get the already prepared shells and have it done in a 12 hours. At the end of the day when I am done dinking around Ill be using the already prepared media. For me, experience with "What Not to Do's" helps me to focus in on establishing a set procedure that requires minimal thinking.

As 1hand as pointed out, the configuration of the pieces play a part in media choice, too soft and clogging may occur, too large and areas may never be touched.

So we are doing trial and error, goofing round with different methods. Solid evidence has been presented as to a type with finish results. Do I just jump on that wagon and go for the ride? I know that I'm going to in the end, but I just gotta run that jalopy into the ground so I can truly appreciate the Cadillac.
Ignorance is Bliss, thus I aim for Perfection