Author Topic: An Interesting little Job  (Read 12763 times)

Offline RichardShute

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An Interesting little Job
« on: February 08, 2011, 09:11:54 AM »
A few months ago I did a little job for a chap who was repairing his car. The car is a 1919 Humber and turns out to be his 'new' car. His 'old' car isn't really a car, and when he asked me to make a pair of new front stub axles and rear brake 'drums' for a 1898 Clement quadricycle, I thought he was having me on, but no.



The original drums are nice, very fine iron casings, but both left and right had cracked. We decided to make new ones from steel, not such a nice bearing material, but not prone to cracking and as they are not conventional drums we don't think this will be a problem. Although they are 'drums' the brakes are an external brake band, lined with leather rather than (now) conventional shoes and Ferodo.

Here's the original drum



and a close up of the crack



This is one of the blanks being roughed out



Easy and small enough to do on the small lathe at home, but there is a twist in the story. It would have been easier to keep them all true by cutting the threads last, but the blanks were given to me ready threaded to match the hubs, with no internal shoulder as a reference to clock to, just the thread which is how the originals are made. So I needed to finish turn them on a suitably threaded mandrel, however.... the right hand drum is screwed to the hub with a left hand thread to prevent it unscrewing in use. No bother sorting a mandrel with a LH thread, but how to turn it as the LH thread would unscrew off the mandrel? Soooo, do it all backwards. As the small lathe at home has a screwed-on chuck which would probably have unscrewed running backwards I went round to the workshop at my folks' place and used the bigger lathe with a cam-lock chuck mount, ran it backwards and cut on the far side of the centre



This is perfectly reasonable, but feels seriously wierd! The compound slide was twisted just to give it clearance from clobbering the tailstock all the time while manoeuvering.
More peculiar still, to true the outer surface of the rim and produce the side flanges, keep running backwards, but turn the tool upside down.



which is even wierder

I now need to bung them on the rotary table to knock out the slots in the webs to make them look like the originals. I'll post some pics when I've done them.

The axles are a straight forward turning job in AISI4130 (En19 for we Imperialists), again with left and right hand threads according to the side of the machine and a small change in design to use modern taper roller bearings instead of the horrid bicycle-style cup & cone grit-grinders of the original.



I also extended the shoulder slightly to make a dust seal, not up to modern standards, but the best I could manage while still keeping it looking right. I have wondered about some felt wipers, but I think it will damage the enamel on the wheel and as there is only a very narrow land (less than 1/8") I doubt I could get felt to stay put anyway.



The two small holes in the shoulder/flange are to allow the bearing to be punched off the axle. They will be covered by the steering upright once the axle is fitted to upright and invisible.



The last part was to make a set of new nuts. The inner nut has an integral flange as a dust cover, mirroring the profile of the shoulder on the inboard end of the axle. I had to do the acorn nuts free-hand (note to self: I really must get round to making a radius/ball turner), but they look OK and in keeping with the rest of it all.



I ended up with the best part of a bin-liner full of swarf, but that's what the machines are for I guess, making swarf.

Richard
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline andyf

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #1 on: February 08, 2011, 09:25:47 AM »
 :clap: :clap: What a fascinating job, Richard!

Looking forward to a pic of one of the new drums, when completed.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline ALB

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #2 on: February 08, 2011, 09:31:15 AM »
Hi Richard,

That's a nice little job i wouldn't have thought of squaring up to the thread good thinking  :thumbup:
did you use a hardish metal for the drums?


I hope you are going to get a shot once its restored that would be worth a video :bugeye:

James
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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #3 on: February 08, 2011, 09:56:24 AM »
Great job you are doing there.

One of my favourite types of topics are ones that show restoring something to keep it going.

New stuff can be made anytime, but some of this old stuff is priceless, and in great danger of being lost forever, and needs to be kept alive for future generations.


Bogs
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Offline fixit

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #4 on: February 08, 2011, 10:07:08 AM »
Good to see a nice repair and not letting it 'die' in a corner somewhere !

Well done
northolt,near Mc donalds, next to Pc World

Offline dsquire

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #5 on: February 08, 2011, 01:10:24 PM »
Richard

Very nice job that you have made of the restoration. It is stories like these that can brighten a day just reading of them. The fact that another old piece of equipment is being restored is wonderful and you will have a good feeling in your heart for years to come. :) :)

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2011, 01:11:13 PM »
Yep!
Keep 'em running.....  :thumbup:

Well done!  :clap:

David D
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Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2011, 01:38:40 PM »
Wow what a great thread Richard  :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup: :thumbup:

Can't wait for the next installment.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2011, 02:11:12 PM »
 :jaw: Now we are talking classic cars!!

Great job on the repair. Would love to see more pictures of the work and the car(s)

Eric
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Offline crabsign69

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2011, 02:29:56 PM »
wow that thing is great i would love to see pics of every single corner and everything about that rig.
nice work too. i really enjoy that kinda stuff.

Offline RichardShute

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2011, 03:01:07 PM »
Thanks for the compliments chaps. It is not too technically challenging, but I find it immensely satisfying to keep things like this going rather than sat in a museum where it is 'too valuable to run'. I will try to take some more photo's when I drop round with the parts for a fitting.

A few spec's might interest you guys:
The engine is a DeDion (of axle fame) and is permanently geared (chain) to the back wheels, but there is a free-wheel from the pedals. Start pedalling, the engine goes, you drive. Stop at traffic lights (only invented 30 years after the machine was built <VBG>) and the engine stops. Very 'eco'.

The brass slab under the cross bar is a 3-cell LeClanche battery for the ignition and the triangular item under the saddle is fuel supply device.
It is not a carburettor as we would understand it. Petrol runs into the brass box and sits as a puddle at the bottom, air to the engine is drawn from above the petrol which is encouraged to evaporate somewhat faster by the exhaust pipe being led through the bottom of the thing. As far as I can see, you are sitting on a boiling Molotov cocktail, but it's not blown up in the last 110 years so I guess it is safe.

Cheers
Richard
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline andyf

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2011, 04:01:58 PM »
Quote
.... the triangular item under the saddle is fuel supply device.
It is not a carburettor as we would understand it. Petrol runs into the brass box and sits as a puddle at the bottom, air to the engine is drawn from above the petrol which is encouraged to evaporate somewhat faster by the exhaust pipe being led through the bottom of the thing. As far as I can see, you are sitting on a boiling Molotov cocktail, but it's not blown up in the last 110 years so I guess it is safe.


That's like the vapour carbs Jan Ridders uses. I wonder if he's thought of using the exhaust heat.

Andy
Sale, Cheshire
I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

Offline shoey51

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2011, 04:24:29 PM »
lovely restoration to a thing of beauty :thumbup:looking forward to the next instalment :clap:

Offline Ned Ludd

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #13 on: February 08, 2011, 04:50:53 PM »
Hi Richard,
Clearly a man after my own heart, good job.
I seem to spend nearly all my spare time making bits and pieces for old cars and bikes.
Perhaps we ought start a "Guild of makers or repairers of bits to keep old vehicles on the road, and allied trades"
Ned
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Leafy suburbs of NW London

Offline ieezitin

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #14 on: February 08, 2011, 05:21:16 PM »
Great job sir, I am sure the owner is more than pleased with your proficient workmanship.
Make sure you keep good records for your own posterity and others too.

All the best.    Anthony.
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Dean W

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #15 on: February 08, 2011, 07:05:22 PM »
Very interesting job, and a fine thing to be part of keeping such an old mechanism running.
Thanks for the photos and words.  Will be watching for more.
Dean W.

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http://www.deansphotographica.com/machining/projects/projects.html

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Offline winklmj

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #16 on: February 09, 2011, 11:13:44 AM »
 :headbang: nice work and a very cool looking bike?...car?...cycle?
Mike

Offline madjackghengis

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #17 on: February 09, 2011, 12:19:19 PM »
Hi Richard, I believe I have to go with John, Ned, and a few others, truly admiring the keeping of old machines running, and keeping real, genuine history alive, for a generation which wouldn't believe in the past, without the chance to see it.  I definitely think we should set up a guild for those who focus on restoring old and antique machinery and equipment.  We tend to have to learn how it was done back then, to duplicate the same outcome, and often learn to integrate old ways with new ideas, and come out with ways and means of doing things which seem impossible at first glance.  I would definitely like to see a video of this four wheeler running, when you've finished with the parts. :beer: cheers, mad jack

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2011, 08:28:47 PM »
...I definitely think we should set up a guild for those who focus on restoring old and antique machinery and equipment.  ...

What a great idea. Should I make a new board for it?

Eric
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Offline Ned Ludd

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #19 on: February 11, 2011, 08:12:43 AM »
Hi Eric,
It might not be very busy, but if you moved a few posts over to it you could get it started. Feel free to move my Norton crank repair if you do start one.
Personally I get a kick out of repairing things that others have given up on, although if I ever finish one of the models I have started I might change my priorities.
Ned
I know enough to do what I do, but the more I know the more I can do!

Leafy suburbs of NW London

Offline RichardShute

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #20 on: February 12, 2011, 07:27:32 PM »
Here's one of the brake drums on the rotary table, taking out the slots.


And here it is with the other unfinished one beside the original.


Job's a good 'un, just need a little cleaning up here and there and get the felt-tip marker stripes off. I'll take some photo's of the machine when I take the parts over. It will be a while before it's a runner again, but I will see if I can get a video together when it is going.
For every fool-proof solution, there is a fool greater than the proof

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: An Interesting little Job
« Reply #21 on: February 13, 2011, 02:29:29 AM »
Nicely done Richard!  :clap:

I've been retired some time now, and it's good to see a grown up milling machine assembly again. I can almost smell the fresh, wet swarf! :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!