Author Topic: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve  (Read 12029 times)

Offline Bluechip

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2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« on: May 24, 2011, 05:24:48 AM »
Hi Troops

Does anyone in UK supply reducers like the pic ??

They always seem to have a slot to remove the 1 MT tool with a tang ie no drawbar thread. Or ..

Drawbar thread but no slot to extract the 1MT tooling.

Is there a good reason why they don't seem to be made? Or what ??

I suppose it's possble to drift out the 1MT kit from the type with a thread, but it seems a bit iffy ..

Dave BC




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Offline Bogstandard

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #1 on: May 24, 2011, 05:58:51 AM »
Dave,

The reason is that if the 1MT has a drawbar thread in the end, the 1mt is too short to use a taper drift to remove it from the adaptor. The slot is there for removing tanged end morse tapers only.

So an adaptor that is for use with a drawbar to the smaller MT will not have the slot there as it is of no use for removing the MT inside the adaptor, that has to be drifted out in the usual way.

I hope you can understand that.


John
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #2 on: May 24, 2011, 06:13:23 AM »
Hi, Bluechip

What do you need that adapor for? I have used threaded end for milling and tang for drilling. Do you have a mill/drill that spindle has a slot for drift and you want use it mainly for MT1 size drills?

I have seen open ended adaptors:
http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/acatalog/HEADSTOCK_REDUCERS.html

This could work if need drawbar trough, but I never seen MT reducer which has thread and slot for tang.

Pekka

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #3 on: May 24, 2011, 06:23:02 AM »
Dave,

The reason is that if the 1MT has a drawbar thread in the end, the 1mt is too short to use a taper drift to remove it from the adaptor. The slot is there for removing tanged end morse tapers only.

So an adaptor that is for use with a drawbar to the smaller MT will not have the slot there as it is of no use for removing the MT inside the adaptor, that has to be drifted out in the usual way.

I hope you can understand that.


John

Errrr .. no, I don't  :scratch:

I have some 2MT - 1MT reducers. They HAD a tang on the 2MT, now whipped off with the angle grinder so I can get them in the Myford tailstock.
They are hardened. Boy, are they ..

There is enough meat to put a 10mm / 3/8" BSW thread in the end to use a drawbar, but no way I can do it. Far too hard.

I have some sleeves with no tang slot for the 1 MT but with a drawbar thread ..

So, when I put a reducer sleeve + 1MT tool in the Mill, I can oik up the drawbar, as all respectable people should, but the 1MT tool is now 'stuck in the sleeve'.

Well, it isn't. I put a suitable set screw in the drawbar thread and wind it in, thereby popping out the 1MT tool.

But, it's a bugger to hold the thing. Much nicer to pop in the wedgy wotsit on whip it out that way, as I can with the sleeves with a tang hole for the 1MT and a tang on the 2MT part ..

Grrrrrr ...

Maybe I should just replace all the 1 MT tooling with 2 MT and mutter quietly to myself in a dark corner ...

I'm sure you're right ... no-one seems to make them, so it's probably me ... as usual ..

Dave BC
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #4 on: May 24, 2011, 06:44:50 AM »
Pics ..

First shows reamer I wanted to use in the mill.

Second shows butchered reducer sleeve ( tang cut off ) with reamer inserted ..

As you can see, there is enough metal left to put a drawbar thread in.

But it's too hard by far ...  :bang:

The 1MT slot is usable for it's intended purpose.

IF I could get tanged reducers soft enough to machine the drawbar thread in after removal of the 2MT tang I would be chuffed.

Alas, mine are all dead hard ...

Dave BC


« Last Edit: May 24, 2011, 06:47:34 AM by Bluechip »
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Offline PekkaNF

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #5 on: May 24, 2011, 07:13:10 AM »
OK, tail stock = drilling -> tang is nice!

I had same sort of problem... I have a MT3 on the lathe tail stock and milling machine. Rather use draw bar on the milling machine, extraction is draw bar only, no pinole, no slot for tang. And that lathe o' mine has like 35 chinese millimetres of usefull travel, every millimetre helps. And that tang cost me a lot of precious travel and when wound in arbor would eject before scale would be even close to "0" mark. Furher insult was that I could not find then easily B16/MT3 arbor with a draw bolt thread, I only found fast/localy one with a tang.

How hard can it be to cut the tang and cut the thread? Abrasive disc did a short work of the cutting bit. While I used carbide insert tool to tidy up the face, I noticed that it was rather hard. Not only a little case hardening but all the way trough. I dunk best part of the arbor on a small tin can and filled some water, then I draw color - nice j- ust past blue and let it warm up trough gently. Propane torch is nice to have. It seem to soften the tang end and then hole was easily made, alhough the material was still somewhat more hardish than what I normaly would use. I bought really expensive threading tap and used it to make two of these arbors, then I used it one too many times and the bugger got dull......

The arbor did bend when I annealed it, I was pretty worried about it and I was mentaly prepared to thin the very end of arbor if it did.

Maybe there is something on my despicable story?

PekkaNF

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2011, 07:25:28 AM »
Hi PekkaNF

Just might try softening one sleeve, I have a propane torch ... would be nice if I didn't have to ...  :(

I got several of the sleeves when I bought my Myford S7. Trouble is, with using tanged tooling in the Myford tailstock, it's too long.

The Myford has a self-ejecting arrangment, just wind the tailstock barrel back, and the tooling pops out.
Tanged tooling has a habit of popping out when you don't want it to. Annoying ..

Dave BC
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2011, 08:39:21 AM »
Just might try softening one sleeve, I have a propane torch ... would be nice if I didn't have to ...  :(

Jeah, this was a scary bit. Bit too much heat and unevenly and perfectly tapered arbor might turn out perfectly tapered banaana...I considered of putting it into owen (rack and a can of oil to even out temperature) to "medium roast", but played out all the cards at once. I consentrated the heat square to end and looked the color creep on shank. I kept it straight - I was worried about the water cooling it unevenly and I wanted to keep most of it hardened, they tend to last longer, I'll take drill chuck in and out all the time.

I got several of the sleeves when I bought my Myford S7. Trouble is, with using tanged tooling in the Myford tailstock, it's too long.

The Myford has a self-ejecting arrangment, just wind the tailstock barrel back, and the tooling pops out.
Tanged tooling has a habit of popping out when you don't want it to. Annoying ..

Dave BC

This I hate to a no end... Most annoying when you knock it just a little loose and then advance drill to a revolving stock...Least you have some decent travel on your Myford. My lathe has a travel that is manufacured just to piss off long noses.

Pekka

Offline 75Plus

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2011, 11:15:25 AM »
Have you considered making a drawbar that is too long to actually "Draw" but would allow you to turn a spigot on the end that will push the M-1 tool out while the M-2 is still seated in its taper?

Joe

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #9 on: May 24, 2011, 11:38:38 AM »
Joe

I had considered that method, which would certainly work. But .... there's just gotta be one ??

My mill is a Warco WM16 with a 'captive drawbar'. So, having got the 1MT free, I would then have to replace the 2MT drawbar, the sleeve-nut, then use the 8mm wrench to pop out the 2MT taper, and then remove the sleeve-nut ... at which point I'm home ...

So ...

What I've done is get a lump of 1" Sq alloy bar about 1 1/2" long. Poked a 2MT taper in it and slitted one side.

Drop the 2MT out of the mill, in to the ally block, lock it up in the vice and use a 10mm set screw to pop the 1MT.

Not as easy as the taper drift, but it sort of works ...

At least it grips the 2MT which was the problem ..

...... ' On the way down, I met the barrel of bricks on the way up .....  :D

Dave BC

I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline DaveH

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #10 on: May 24, 2011, 12:52:32 PM »
Dave BC,


...... ' On the way down, I met the barrel of bricks on the way up .....  :D

Dave BC


I still have that on a cassette tape!

DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline srm_92000

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2011, 12:58:35 PM »
Hi Bluechip,

I may be way off here as I probably haven't read the thread properly. But-
could you weld a bar to the MT2 adaptor with the tang cut off, then thread at the top for a nut and washer to pull it tight like a fixed draw bar ?.
Would be awkward to get it in and out but: :scratch:

Just a thought,

Steve
Steve,
I put it back together using all the right parts,
just not necessarily in the right order.:scratch:
(Eric morecambe - ish)

Offline DaveH

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #12 on: May 24, 2011, 01:00:38 PM »
For those who may not know the story here it is:

THE BRICKLAYER'S STORY
by  Gerard Hoffnung
(from his Oxford Union speech)

I've got this thing here that I must read to you.
Now, this is a very tragic thing... I shouldn't, really, read it out.
A striking lesson in keeping the upper lip stiff is given in a recent number of the weekly bulletin of 'The Federation of Civil Engineering Contractors' that prints the following letter from a bricklayer in Golders Green to the firm for whom he works.
Respected sir,

when I got to the top of the building, I found that the hurricane had knocked down some bricks off the top. So I rigged up a beam, with a pulley, at the top of the building and hoisted up a couple of barrels of bricks.
When I had fixed the building, there was a lot of bricks left over.
I hoisted the barrel back up again and secured the line at the bottom and then went up and filled the barrel with the extra bricks.
Then, I went to the bottom and cast off the rope.
Unfortunately, the barrel of bricks was heavier than I was and before I knew what was happening, the barrel started down, jerking me off the ground.
I decided to hang on!
Halfway up, I met the barrel coming down... and received a severe blow on the shoulder.
I then continued to the top, banging my head against the beam and getting my fingers jammed in the pulley!
When the barrel hit the ground, it burst it's bottom... allowing all the bricks to spill out.
I was now heavier than the barrel and so started down again at high speed!
Halfway down... I met the barrel coming up and received severe injury to my shins!
When I hit the ground... I landed on the bricks, getting several painful cuts from the sharp edges!
At this point... I must have lost my presence of mind... because I let go of the line!
The barrel then came down... giving me a very heavy blow and putting me in hospital!

I respectfully request 'sick leave'.



DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline 75Plus

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #13 on: May 24, 2011, 01:06:20 PM »
I see your problem. I have the same basic mill, mine is branded Grizzly, that you have. I "Lost" the captive draw bar early on. The cap that captures the draw bar would unscrew each time I tried to change tools. I made a spanner that fits over the spline of the spindle to back hold and made a combination spanner / hammer to remove the tooling. Works a treat. Here is the post showing what I made.

http://madmodder.net/index.php?topic=4224.0


Joe

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #14 on: May 24, 2011, 01:25:11 PM »
Joe

From that post I'm not sure if they are the same.

On mine:

Insert 2MT, drawbar screwed in. Then, with 25mm AF wrench on flats at bottom of spindle, nip up drawbar with a 8mm AF wrench.

Then, put sleeve nut on and, still with 25mm wrench on, tighten sleeve nut.

The increased dia. bit at the top of the drawbar is now firmly trapped between the top of the spindle and the sleeve nut. Nothing moves.

To remove, loosen sleeve nut by about 2 threads, undo drawbar with 8mm wrench until it contacts the underside of the sleeve nut, anothe bit of a turn and the taper releases.

Want a C-O-C ??   

Dave BC

I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline DaveH

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #15 on: May 24, 2011, 01:30:59 PM »
Dave BC,

I suppose you don't fancy making one, the only tricky bit is the MT1 taper, if you can get your hands on a couple of MT1 reamers the rest isn't so bad.

Just a thought.

DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline 75Plus

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #16 on: May 24, 2011, 01:36:45 PM »
No C-O-C needed. Mine has R-8 taper which makes the spindle end larger. For what ever reason, by design or by accident, there was no provision for back holding provided. Hoss Machine drilled a hole in the spindle end and made a pin spanner to back hold with. I guess the captured draw bar scheme works better with the M-2 taper.

Joe

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #17 on: May 24, 2011, 01:51:23 PM »
Steve .... I have no welder, and I can't weld anyway ... ask Bogs or Rob Wilson ...  :lol:  :lol:

Dave H .. I have both a 1MT & 2 MT reamers. Brand new and made by Dormer. I don't get results that are too good .. 
I don't doubt either the two reamers or Dormer ... so that just leaves me ... :(

You still got a cassette recorder ??? Coal fired or one of the later gas fired models ??? Still get flints for them ???

Joe .. having done a C-O-C you're gonna get it anyway.   :lol:

Or just in case anyone else has no idea what I'm yada-ing about ..

The bodge with the alloy block works OK though ... not elegant but it will do ..



Dave BC

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Offline DaveH

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #18 on: May 24, 2011, 02:26:12 PM »
Dave BC,

This bit never fails to make me laugh
At this point... I must have lost my presence of mind... because I let go of the line!  :doh: :doh: :doh:

State of the art cassette player - wind up, - no greenhouse gasses from me!

I have to admit I'm not too good with hand held reamers, especially bigger than 1/2 inch  :doh: Must be one of those arty tarty things never got the hang of :)

Well I'm really glad you have come right.

DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline 75Plus

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #19 on: May 24, 2011, 03:09:20 PM »
Just one more idea and I'll butt out!!

Joe

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #20 on: May 24, 2011, 03:11:05 PM »
Hi Dave

Used to have a car full of tapes ... remember all the hedgerows gaily bedecked with 1/4" tape from discarded jammed up cassettes.

You  remember 8-track ??

Got an amusing ( true ) tale about mine. Not fit for a public forum though ...  :lol:

Dave BC
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #21 on: May 24, 2011, 03:12:05 PM »
Just one more idea and I'll butt out!!

Joe

Thanks Joe ... that would work  :thumbup:

Dave BC
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.

Offline John Hill

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #22 on: May 24, 2011, 04:14:59 PM »
Hmmmmmmm,  chop end off whichever  bit you want the thread on and weld a nut on then turn the outside of the nut so that it is below the taper profile. :scratch:
From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline Bluechip

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Re: 2MT to 1MT Sleeve
« Reply #23 on: May 24, 2011, 05:59:09 PM »
Hi John

Reply # 17 ...

No welder ... can't weld anyway ...  :(  :(

Too old to learn either ...

Dave BC
I have a few modest talents. Knowing what I'm doing isn't one of them.