The C4 Lathe experience

[cedge]

Let me begin by saying that I will be transferring a copy of the C4 Lathe write up on HMEM that I recently posted. I've had the new lathe for a couple of weeks now and I've gotten to do some test cutting, as well as a whole lot of looking around under covers and such. The test cutting has revealed a very tough little machine that has less than .0015 taper over 8 inches. I'm pretty much convinced that any error is coming from the tail stock. I'll be chasing that down later in the week.

So far I've found nothing that makes me wish I hadn't bought the little lathe. I say little, but for its size it's a right beefy little critter. I've yet to open a cover or remove a component to find any of the legendary sand and casting debris. I am still finding spots where the red grease lives, but I can deal with that. The more I see of the fit and finish, the more impressed I'm getting.

Whoever designed the lathe took some time doing so. It's one of those machines that appears to have been thought through by someone who has operated these small mills and had to do repairs. One example of this is the lead screw. On the C2 mini lathe, it runs straight through into the gear changes area and is held by bushings on each end. You usually have to shim these bushing in order to get the backlash out of the design. Annoying, but it can be done with a bit of work.

The C4 lead screw is a different story. The change gear is mounted on its own shaft that is secured by the same style of nuts used on the lathe spindles for setting pre-load. (can you say "no lash"?) Attached to the end of this shaft is a clamping coupler that clamps onto the shaft and the other end has 2 screw to clamp the lead screw in place. Loosen two socket heads and unbolt the bushing on the tail stock end of the machine and the threaded section of the lead screw slides right out. The bushings even have tapered indexing pins for exact realignment.

I also discovered that there is plenty of room inside the front control panel for me to mount the circuit board and all the controls for the independent drive I'm working to add to the lead screw. Looks like it's going to make one rather clean mod. The adapters for my 5 inch chucks should arrive this week, making that the first completed modification. Other changes will include adding DRO's, but I want to go to Cabin Fever before I decide on how I want to do it.  The indexer tool that I've been using on the mini lathe is planned for a refit to this machine as well.

Lots to do and a lot of things to think through, but I'll begin posting photos when it all begins in earnest.  More to come

Steve

[Brass_Machine]

Hey Steve...

How much does that thing weigh? I want to replace my 7x10 with something. I was thinking about the 8x14 or the 10x22. The 8x14 would be easy for me to do. the 10x22 would require a little work to get it up on the bench.

Eric

[bogstandard]

Steve,

It is so nice to see someone praise these little Chinese jobbies, rather than pulling them apart for every little problem.

At one time, I would have been for going with tried and tested old machinery, but now I have had mine for a few months, it has shown me that these new generation of lathes are really starting to get their act together. Not perfect in the looks department, plus there are still some basic things to be sorted, but machining wise, they can't be faulted. Just imagine what they will be like in another 10 years when they get their QC sorted.

Mind you, that C4 machine seems to have impressed everyone who has tried it out and written about it, a real capable little machine. Awaiting further updates.

John

[John Stevenson]

John,
It's all down to investment but what is lacking is training.
Up until recently they have had trillions of dollars thrust on them by various organisations all over the world because they they were giving a good return on investment, in other words they are growing.

This allowed then to take the big step of going from a back strett industry to a fully computerised on withot the bit in the middle where it seems the western world is stuck.

One classic example here.
In 1969 I bought a brand new Myford lathe, that lathe which everyone says is one of the best made lathes around had a flat bed  ground on a slideway grinder that I have no way of knowing how old.
Now if you buy a Conny sewer lathe today, at incidentally a base cost of around £8,000, that lathe will be made on the same slideway grinder as made mine.

Now according to varoius Myford sites that list model numbers and dates since my ML7 was made there have been 50,354 ML7's made and about 98,000 Super 7's made but these figures are 10 years old.

That than machine has handled at least  150,000 lathe beds if we are to believe Myfords numbering service.

When I was In Canton at the machinery show  2 years ago i made a point of asking how old their slideway grinder was at different small companies.
Siegs rely was "Which one ? The oldest is two years old and the newest only a few months old and we have a new Swiss one coming "

JS.

[Circlip]

Investment Lord John? That's the lost wax process isn't it? We're past masters at the lack of investment but this is due to the fact that in another era, WE had a guarranteed market to, in certain cases, sell any sort of crap we wanted to. I.E -- THE EMPIRE.

  I wonder why the trillions of whatever currency have not been invested in China before? The quality issues that have been addressed recently only follow on from the same scenario that the Taiwanese did a few years ago, in fact the start up trade probably used the same drawings the Taiwanese did and I'll bet the sand exported in the castings came from the same beaches. Any forward thinking company, to remain in the "Luxury Goods" market, and lets face it, in our home workshop trade that's what it is, has to keep an eye on satisfying the moans of their market. How many changes have YOU personally instigated to satisfy us weirdoes? Sadly all makets are accountancy driven cos profitability comes foremost, and Joe public, as we well know wants as much as he can get and pay bugger all for it, due to other demands on disposable income.

 I'm not knocking the Chinese made goods although the "Tiger economy" for fakes in certain areas beggars belief (Especially Medical goods), but it does make one wonder who's going to get the Bench grinder, Bandsaw, Drilling machine, Lathe design package next? Zimbabwe springs to mind?

  Happy new year,  Regards  Ian.

[John Stevenson]

Sadly all markets are accountancy driven cos profitability comes foremost, and Joe public, as we well know wants as much as he can get and pay bugger all for it, due to other demands on disposable income.

 I'm not knocking the Chinese made goods although the "Tiger economy" for fakes in certain areas beggars belief (Especially Medical goods), but it does make one wonder who's going to get the Bench grinder, Bandsaw, Drilling machine, Lathe design package next? Zimbabwe springs to mind?

  Happy new year,  Regards  Ian.

Good points Ian.

Probably not Africa because have you have said markets are accountancy driven and Taiwan and China has the capacity for hard work and investment which sadly I think Africa lacks.

If you go over to China and see what is on offer there are some nice machines but not as cheap as what we are seeming. As one manufacturer said to me " Why do you always want the cheapest of what we can make ?

JS

[ja2on]

Hi cedge
You mention in your post 5" chuck back plates where can I get one ?
I'm looking forward to reading more about your C4 mods 

[cedge]

Ja2on
The adapter came from www.littlemachineshop.com . Chris was quite helpful in helping to decide which one to use, but I've not got that information on hand at the moment.

I'm in the middle of adding the new DRO system to the SX3 mill, so the C4 is sort of waiting its turn for my attention. Plenty of small changes are in the works when I can get to it. Today was almost 80° here and the perfect day to be in the shop for a change.

Steve