Author Topic: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor  (Read 34636 times)

lordedmond

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #25 on: March 11, 2012, 08:40:15 AM »
for info my draw bar key is a 8mm allen key used one handed that limits the torque you can get on a 3/8 bsw draw bar
then it can be to much

Stuart

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #26 on: March 11, 2012, 10:02:07 AM »
Ukazak,

I forgot to mention to grease the threads, washer and sleeve to convert more of your turning effort into trying to extract the taper.

I think someone has mentioned trying to rapidly cool the internal taper. I have some freezing spray for fault finding in electronics but you can also get freezing sprays for plumbing. I think you'd have to put as much tension as possible with the nut and then quickly cool the chuck.

I've found the opposite works on a stuck crank on a bike - tighten up the extractor as much as you dare (the threads are quite fine and only into aluminium) and then pour a kettle of boiling water over the crank. It may be difficult to get enough heat into the spindle quickly enough without damaging anything and cooling the chuck may possibly work better.



Good Luck.

Phil.

Thanks to all,
Phil,
I noticed today, that the washer I turned and splitted is not properly functioning. little slop between the sleeve and washer is slightly tipping one side, so, it doesnt equally receive presure spread to entire diameter  from the sleeve. so, only the half of power we apply is transfered to spindle. I will try another washer with wider outer diameter. logic say this has to work.
Note; threats on the chucks nut have showen no signs of any damage at all...
I may also extend the lenght of the arm of the wrench with a pipe or so for more power.. no?

Offline Jonny

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #27 on: March 11, 2012, 04:03:58 PM »

What is missing in the discussion is the 'bloody ignorance' bit.

Sorry, making a mountain out of a mole hill.
I dont have a robust US or English machine and limited to two cheap chinese mills. So far the younger is 8 years old no spindle, collet or chuck damage not as a hobby. As before just Thursday and Friday last week alone 60 times the tooling was changed in and out the MT3, now you know where i'm coming from. 15 to 25 secs to change a tool in the MT3 job done, even quicker just changing a milling cutter.
Its a knack if anyone wants to come round and video for proof just let me know, i'll get the shovel out.

Its easy to replace or make a drawbar and i tighten mine up full force 3/8", M10 and M12. Dont want the cutting forces overcoming the tightness, it it has happened a few times where just nipped up and forgotten.

Perhaps the easiest way of working the tool loose in the MT2 or 3 is to slacken drawbar off or remove and take a cut. Lateral forces MT are not very good at which will eventually dislodge and drop out. Vibration works as well.

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2012, 02:49:25 PM »
Thank you all,
Well, I run the mill all day, today without the drawbar attached.. hoping to see if it is going to fall off like a lose tooth or not. So far it is holding and no signs of anything... Not knowing what to expect realy,. drawbar by my side to remind me, that stubborn chuck might fall any unexpected time and redy to hit the panic button.

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2012, 06:30:31 PM »
Not sure if this would help or many approve but i had a chuck arbor stuck on a pillar drill with a hollow through to the top. It was given to me by a neighbor who complained it had never run true so never used it. He had owned it for 10 years and had been sat in a shed. To free it at the advise of a friend i poured vinegar down it and left it over night. In the morning there was a pool of brown liquid and a tiny tap it fell out. The problem was what looked like a small amount of swarf had been introduced at the factory. A bit of wire wool and it was as good as new. In my case i had nothing to loose as it cost me nothing other than vinegar.
Once in hole stop digging.

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #30 on: March 13, 2012, 03:42:40 AM »
I think that we have to thank our Rob and DoubleBoost for reminding me of perhaps the simplest solution.

Simply turn a metal dowel to a fairly tight fit in the top of the hollow spindle. Find a suitable bottle cork( Happy Birthday, Rob) and fill the hollow spindle to the top with hydraulic oil( Thanks John- Andy Barton and so on) Insert the cork, follow up with the tight fitting dowel-- and hit it. :hammer:

It's boring, it's ancient and despite all the so called expert criticism, it actually works. It is a crude hydraulic jack.

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #31 on: March 13, 2012, 06:30:08 PM »
I remember using this method to remove spigot shaft bearings from morris 1000s :) :) :)
We used to pack the bearing with grease put a old first motion shaft in the hole and whack the bugger
I would not like to think of the pressure generated but it worked :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
John

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #32 on: March 13, 2012, 07:19:40 PM »
Yes, John,

I did say that the male lot of my family were all blacksmiths.  :hammer:

Your idea is splendid. If the poor wee soul has been pouring WD-40 and summat called Kroil- whatever that is, down the lot, there will be sweet nothin' left  in the ball races. Grease, what a good idea :beer: Re-pack the bearings. Unusual but heigh ho-- I like it. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Offline Fergus OMore

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #33 on: March 16, 2012, 09:06:47 AM »
Whilst Rome wasn't built in a day, there should be progress with the chuck by now.

Don't keep us in suspense :bow: :hammer:

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #34 on: March 21, 2012, 06:24:58 PM »
well,
it has been more than ten days now, machine is running without the drawbar. at least 4hrs a day, up hill, down hill, fast and slow, with fly cutting, slot cutting and 16mm end mills and all... nothing hapened so far. running just as usuall. ıt just doesnt give..
unal


Offline Miner

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #35 on: March 21, 2012, 06:42:56 PM »
Have it pressed out at a good machine shop.

Pete

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #36 on: March 21, 2012, 06:54:30 PM »
Hi
Have you tried a good fitting punch and really hitting it with a propper hammer
Tapping it will only swell the end up and make it worse
Failing that it is a strip down job and press it out
I have seen people tapping things with hammers  that really need a couple of good blows
John

Offline Miner

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #37 on: March 21, 2012, 07:33:23 PM »
OK, :Doh: One more time, I've worked in open pit mines for a long time. And I've used large and heavy duty equipment to position bearings for millwrights and mechanics that were far too heavy to be humanly lifted and put in place. These are not "precision" bearings, Just industrial grade roller and ball bearings. They are ALWAYS installed and handled very delicately. I just plugged into Google "Precision bearings and shock" A quote "100 grams of force from a distance of 4 mm can be enough to cause brinelling of the bearings".

Pete

Offline doubleboost

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #38 on: March 21, 2012, 07:41:54 PM »
Hi
It is very simple really :bugeye: :bugeye: :bugeye:
You hit it and it comes out (it will)
Then you replace the bearings ect
Or you strip the spindle and have it pressed out (then replace the bearings)
John

lordedmond

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #39 on: March 22, 2012, 03:41:33 AM »
well,
it has been more than ten days now, machine is running without the drawbar. at least 4hrs a day, up hill, down hill, fast and slow, with fly cutting, slot cutting and 16mm end mills and all... nothing hapened so far. running just as usuall. ıt just doesnt give..
unal

you need a bigger hammer hit though not at its a quick sharp clout that shifts thing not a series of taffy hammer taps , I have used a MT3 mill for years , yes the chuck that came with it was in well and needed a good dose of the manchester screwdriver ,but the mill is still OK and the bearings are still fine


Stuart

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #40 on: March 22, 2012, 05:06:57 PM »
I have been trying almost everything has been suggested here..  One by one. Accept the hydraulic thing which I haven’t comprehend the technical. I am all alone and trying.. I don’t mean any disrespect, for I value and appreciate all and each one of your suggestions and recommendations.  And I am applying them with best of my ability. I am truly sorry lf I caused to get you frustrated gentleman. Maybe, because I am not an engineer to begin with. Yes, I love to play with these machines and do machining, and have no real excuse for it. I am not here to waste anybody’s time. I am just trying to learn and discover… all I have done accomplish up until now is making QCTP set, Cam lock to my tailstock, and couple of steam engines of Elmers. I am sorry to trouble you all, I can see now that here is only for high “scholar” and “pro” site. I am truly sorry, but please don’t feel frustrated, I am sure someone has learned something out of all this.. if nobody, I sure did.

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #41 on: March 22, 2012, 05:11:08 PM »
here
, one of them

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #42 on: March 22, 2012, 05:15:25 PM »
Hi ukazak

Were about's  do you live ? ,,, there could be a member  local that could lend a hand  :dremel:


Rob



Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #43 on: March 22, 2012, 05:17:20 PM »
here what happened

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #44 on: March 22, 2012, 05:21:22 PM »
I live in a small town (Mersin ) at south coast of Turkey.

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #45 on: March 22, 2012, 05:28:04 PM »
I am the one and "only" amongs 80Million who has the interested in model machining. we dont have clubs or sociaeties or any groups in this country to associate at all. I dont even have anybody to share or show or discuss..  I have been considered as a "fool" to be occupied with such things... may be, they are right!

Rob.Wilson

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #46 on: March 22, 2012, 05:33:39 PM »
No were me then  :Doh:  ,,,,,,, i have been a bit future up the cost Bodrum  :) 


Just a thought ,,, have you tried putting  a length of bar/lump of timber   between the quill  and the table ,, then giving the draw bar a GOOD WHACK with the hammer .


Rob

Offline ukazak

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #47 on: March 22, 2012, 05:38:41 PM »
my small workshop

Offline DaveH

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #48 on: March 22, 2012, 05:38:53 PM »
Ukazak,

Everthing is fine - you are not the problem, you are doing OK.

A couple of the members who posted just need to show a bit more patience and understanding, and stop behaving like smart'ies, yes you two, for goodness sake give the guy a chance.

 :beer:
DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)

Offline DaveH

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Re: Stuck Collet Chuck Arbor
« Reply #49 on: March 22, 2012, 05:44:57 PM »
Ukazak,

You have a nice workshop there,  I could perhaps come over and offer a hand or two.

Is there any where I can park my jumbo  :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 :beer:
DaveH
(Ex Leicester, Thurmaston, Ashby De La Zouch.)