Author Topic: Lister 6/1 Genset  (Read 60906 times)

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #25 on: February 07, 2009, 06:02:39 AM »
Thanks guys, appreciate the offer as I don't have a suitable size tap in my collection.....mind you though they are not the cheapest taps to purchase it still may be worth getting one of my own as the price is not that high.

But if anyone has a spare, I'll gladly trade some beer/food tokens for it  :)

I was going to tear the engine down and do a de-coke and stuff, but now I'm thinking just do enough to get it fired up and go from there.
Have a listen, look to see if any seals are leaking and basic health check...might be wiser to check some stuff before going further into it.

« Last Edit: February 07, 2009, 06:06:15 AM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset Making A Fuel Banjo Fitting
« Reply #26 on: February 07, 2009, 08:00:33 PM »
Making A Fuel Banjo Fitting For the Lister CS 6/1 Engine

On my engine all the fuel lines and fittings are present except for the banjo to the fuel tank.
I could have just bought one but decided to have a go at making it instead. Gotta have some excuse to turn the lathe on  :ddb:

I had a piece of 28mm 316 Stainless Steel bar in the scrap box. I could have used 303 instead but I'd never tried machining 316 so I thought why not have a go.
I have read that 316 can be a bit hard and more difficult to machine over 303. But I can't say I noticed any difference? That is untill I tried parting it off.... :bang:

I had collets in 27mm and 30mm but not 28mm. So I used a coke can to make some shims to make the bar fit the 30mm collet.
This is by no means a perfect solution as I found it difficult to true the bar properly. but as you can see I managed  :D



First the outer diameter was trued up so that it would match the inner boring to come next. It was turned down to fit the 27mm collet properly for later operations.

The center was drilled and then bored to fit the banjo bolt snugly. Next an inner groove needed to be machined to allow full oil/fuel flow around the banjo bolt.
I didn't have the correct shaped boring tool for this but managed by turning my regular boring bar approx 45 deg.



This seemed to work well enough. Next the parting off....what a pig !! The HSS parting tool tip disintegrated very rapidly trying to cut 316. I had to sharpen it four times to get just this one cut done. It's not that clever with 303 SS but nowhere near this difficult.
Note to oneself, I really need to get an index tipped parting tool.... :poke:



This is where I ended up tonight, as you can see there is more to do yet.... :whip:

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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #27 on: February 08, 2009, 01:49:59 AM »
High Darren

It will help with the parting off if you get the work as far back in the collet as you can, with the parting tool as close to the collet as you can, also get the tool as far back in the tool post as you can, keep things nice a ridged. I don't know what speed you used, but don't be frightend to step it up a bit, people have a tendency to run too slow when parting off.

Have Fun
 :wave:

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #28 on: February 08, 2009, 05:20:03 AM »
Hi Stew, nice to see someone is watching..... :wave:

Good comments, as always, though my 30mm collet is partially blind. Spose it needs some metal left in it to keep some strength. So the bar couldn't go any further back.

But, you raise a good point that I'd overlooked. Maybe the parting was much tougher because of the overhang as normally I'd be parting right up by the collet.
Thanks for bringing it up, I'll bear it in mind next time I work with 316.  :thumbup:
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bogstandard

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #29 on: February 08, 2009, 05:48:40 AM »
Darren,

Parting off is the thorn in the side of most model engineers.

In industry, if you can't do it, you are out of the door, it is classed as a normal turning job.

Stew has raised some good points, I will add a couple more.

Even if you have a QCTP, never trust it when it comes to parting off. A holder can put the tip of the cutter out of position by a couple of thou. That is enough to cause you major headaches. Always check your tool height before parting off, use the six inch rule trick. If anything the tip should be spot on or very slightly above centreline. If it is even a couple of thou low, the cutting pressures will push it even further down and the tip will usually be snapped off.

Don't play about with it, give it plenty of coolant (if you have it) or squirt some out of a squeezy bottle, and give it a fair speed and push the tip in. As soon as you stop feeding, it is a pig to get cutting again, and that is when jams and breakages occur.

I normally power feed up to mild steel hardness running at least 650 RPM. Any harder, like stainless, and I hand feed, but still at the same sort of rate, and 'feel' how the cut is going, the swarf should be coming off in nice thin ribbons.

Rigidity is paramount to parting off, and your gibs need to be tweaked up fairly tight.

When you come over, remind me, and I will give you a few instructional tips and get you to 'feel' what you are doing.

John

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #30 on: February 08, 2009, 06:06:48 AM »
Thanks John, I'll look forward to it...."a day at Johns is something to look forward to"  :)

Thinking about it, bit late now, I'd have been better off turning the bar around and sticking it in the 27mm collet to part it off.
Why didn't I think of that last night?  :doh:

Learning every day !!!  :ddb:
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Offline sbwhart

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #31 on: February 08, 2009, 06:20:56 AM »
Hi Darren

Let us know when your visiting John I only live round the corner and it will be good to meet.

Cheers

Stew


A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #32 on: February 08, 2009, 05:36:28 PM »
I have to say I am happy to hear parting off nasty stainless isnt as simple as it is with brass and stainless.

I bought a really nice HSS parting tool for my QCTP and I always have to really get things just right to part the stainless without too much trouble.
ANd yes.. I found you really need to steadily keep that thing shaving.. cause yes.. the nasty offshore boat driveshafts I have that are stainless of some sort.. REALLY dont like to have the parting stopped and re-started.

I have been looking for some time for a parting tool that is carbide, or some sort of index type.

I have a chunk of some sort of hard as hell steel that is ferrous.. because it shows a trace of rust.. and was some sort of jack shaft. That will NOT cut with the HSS. I have to whittle it down with a carbite tip. Or course that isnt parting.. so I have it off to teh side, until I get the tooling and skill to part it properly.
SPiN Racing

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #33 on: February 09, 2009, 04:54:51 PM »
Hi Darren

Let us know when your visiting John I only live round the corner and it will be good to meet.

Cheers

Stew



That would be good Stew, I might still borrow that tap if you find it in time... :thumbup:

I have a warm feeling it won't be too long now as someone has been working hard  :D
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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #34 on: February 09, 2009, 05:04:02 PM »
A little more done on the banjo fitting tonight... :whip:

A couple of pic's of the item so far fitted over the banjo bolt





Marking the center with a scribe block, mark one side and flip it over to do the other side too.



Now we have two lines very close together and can judge the center



Find the center in the other directiong



Drilled and tapped to 8mm, (tried it this time with the tap in the miller, felt much better when cutting. Though 8mm is a bigish tap so it would have been easier anyway with less chance of breaking the tap)



Cut a little flat relief with a 10mm carbide milling cutter. ( I had the idea at this point of sealing with a small o-ring. But it didn't quite work out, more later)



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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #35 on: February 09, 2009, 05:12:59 PM »
Now for the other piece to this fitting,

A 10mm SS bar being prepared for threading to 8mm. It's also had the center drilled out to 5.5mm



Two parts threaded together



On the banjo bolt



Piece of hose fitted



Now then a question for the wise ones, I was going to seal the two parts with an 0-ring, but I didn't have a shoulder to compress the o-ring.

So, could SS be soldered? I have a small blow lamp, flux and plumbing solder. Erm, well it's electronics solder to be truthful.
Will it do in this application.

There is no pressure, just gravity fed. That's also why I didn't put any barbs on the fitting to seal the flexible pipe.

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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #36 on: February 09, 2009, 07:58:00 PM »
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bogstandard

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #37 on: February 10, 2009, 12:37:02 AM »
Great Darren, but look where it has to be picked up from. It would cost 50 squid in fuel alone.

Also I wouldn't think it would be fair to send SWMBO that far, and have to do such heavy lifting when she got there.
 :lol:

John





Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset Oil Filter
« Reply #38 on: February 10, 2009, 10:36:16 AM »
I found a snake in my engine  :bugeye:

Thankfully not a real one though  :lol:  :ddb:  :ddb:  :ddb:



While on the fuel system I thought it may be a good idea to open up the fuel filter housing and have a look inside. Give a it a clean out and empty any water that may have got inside during it's long sleep outside.
Amazingly there was no water inside and it was half full of fuel !!
And, it was quite clean too...umm



It's not rusty, just stained a little



The snake, aka fuel filter. All the muck would be on the outside and I couldn't see any....just a little staining....a good sign.



Interestingly the housing is bolted to the barrel casting. Being a hot place this will be great for running on WVO......it gets better all the time  :D
The black and red bits inside are just paint...



On the bench



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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #39 on: February 10, 2009, 04:44:54 PM »

Now then a question for the wise ones, I was going to seal the two parts with an 0-ring, but I didn't have a shoulder to compress the o-ring.

So, could SS be soldered? I have a small blow lamp, flux and plumbing solder. Erm, well it's electronics solder to be truthful.
Will it do in this application.



Answered my own question, tried soldering the two parts tonight, it's a no go, the solder just rolls off the stainless steel.

Oh poo!!  :(
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bogstandard

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #40 on: February 10, 2009, 05:09:31 PM »
It needs silver solder Darren, plus the right flux. No probs with SS.

If you want to wait until you come over, I'll join it permanently for you. Only takes a couple of minutes.


John

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #41 on: February 10, 2009, 05:40:35 PM »
Thanks John,

A quick lesson with Silver solder may just come in handy for the future.... :thumbup:
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #42 on: February 11, 2009, 01:51:32 PM »
Hi Darren,

I just got off my lazy forgetful ass and had a look for that BSP tap..... I thought it was a 1" but I have 2 of 3/4" instead!!   :doh:

Are you sure it's not a 3/4" ? .... Cause you can have one of these if it is?   :) ..... 1".... That's a monster of a thread!!!  :bugeye:    (well it is to me  ::) )




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #43 on: February 11, 2009, 03:23:58 PM »
Thanks for taking the trouble to look Ralph...much appreciated

Unfortunately I do need a 1" tap not 3/4", Yes It does look big, thankfully I'm only need to clean these threads up a bit and not tap from new  :bugeye:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 03:43:56 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #44 on: February 11, 2009, 03:42:53 PM »
Back on the Lister flywheel puller tonight,

I know the previous advice was against cast iron, but, but, while doing a bit of sorting out earlier I found this..well I had it and it looked just right and pretty substantial.
As soon as I saw it I just new I'd have to give it a go...it's a Ford car hub



Knocked the studs and bearings out, (btw the bearing housings look like they may make some half decent parallels if I could figure out how to cut them in half?)



A reminder of the key I'm trying to pull out



Started milling a slot for the key head,



Then decided I needed to cut the hub down a bit so I could get the milling bit closer



Machined really nicely both on the lathe and the miller



I started from this side and then decided I needed to be machining from the other side....doah...!!



So I flipped it over



And ended up with this



Trial fitting over the key head



Turn into position and bingo.




Now then, some decisions to make, do I drill as before and use 3 bolts to do the pulling, or do I weld a tube on to really strengthen the whole thing up and pull from the end of the shaft with a single bolt.....oooh I don't like these conundrums !!  :scratch:



« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 03:49:48 PM by Darren »
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Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #45 on: February 11, 2009, 04:08:56 PM »
Im thinking a slide hammer...

Weld a tube over it, weld a flat bit on the end, weld a nut to that....

Screw the slide hammer to the nut, and give her a few nice bings, and it should come out...... <knocks on wood>
SPiN Racing

bogstandard

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #46 on: February 11, 2009, 05:21:48 PM »
Darren,

I personally would drill and tap a hole in this position, and another at 180 degrees, and try to jack it out.

That is the easiest way to start with. Try something more complicated if that doesn't work.

There are cast irons and cast irons, the ones that are used for auto brake and running parts are very strong indeed.

John

Offline Bernd

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #47 on: February 11, 2009, 06:05:08 PM »
Darren,

Did you by chance come a bit to close with the end mill? I see some marks on the side of the rotor. :scratch:

Bernd
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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #48 on: February 11, 2009, 06:45:54 PM »
Darren,

Did you by chance come a bit to close with the end mill? I see some marks on the side of the rotor. :scratch:

Bernd

Well I wanted a "close" finish for the key head. Guess you could say I got exactly that.

In my defense, the casting was a bit uneven and it jumped in the vice  :lol:
« Last Edit: February 11, 2009, 06:53:25 PM by Darren »
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Offline Darren

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Re: Lister 6/1 Genset
« Reply #49 on: February 11, 2009, 06:47:52 PM »
Darren,

I personally would drill and tap a hole in this position, and another at 180 degrees, and try to jack it out.

That is the easiest way to start with. Try something more complicated if that doesn't work.

There are cast irons and cast irons, the ones that are used for auto brake and running parts are very strong indeed.

John

I'll give that a try first John....Thanks

I was looking at the pic's later this eve, I could have machined a bit less for the key head, quite a bit less.
Oh well, can't put it back now can I. It should be ok though.
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