Author Topic: Cross Vice.  (Read 9135 times)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Cross Vice.
« on: February 09, 2009, 03:38:51 AM »
I know it`s not "Real Modder`s" milling, but.....
Anyone got experience of these?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=110337002434&ssPageName=STRK:MEWA:PIC&ih=001

Can`t see myself having a milling mc, but I often need offset holes in tube, spotfaces, recesses etc.......

Are they worth the money?

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline HS93

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #1 on: February 09, 2009, 03:58:31 AM »
Any chance you could graft your drill on to one of these, prob only need a flange with a tube welded on , and yes they are a bit dearer but prob a bit more versitile, just a thought

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

bogstandard

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #2 on: February 09, 2009, 04:07:22 AM »
Not for that price it isn't.

I think this bit in the advert says it all

Quote
FOR ALLTHOSE JOBS WHERE HIGH PRECISION IS NOT ESSENTIAL


Axminster do ones just as bad, but a lot cheaper.

http://www.axminster.co.uk/product.asp?sessionID=QOL&pf_id=206617&name=cross+vice&user_search=1&sfile=1&jump=0

They really are lumps of junk. But they are a cheap source of cast iron for making things out of.

Unless you pay for a reasonable quality one it is not worth the bother. They can go up in price, the more quality you require.

http://www.arceurotrade.co.uk/Catalogue/Workholding/Work-Tables

Then you would need a decent small vice.

Don't be tempted to use your light drilling machine as a small weight mill. It just doesn't work, no matter what anyone tells you.
You may just about get away with plastics and small non ferrous parts, but not that accurately. The quills are just not made to take the side loads.

I helped with one of those conversions, and it was far from successful.

John
« Last Edit: February 09, 2009, 04:12:16 AM by bogstandard »

Offline HS93

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #3 on: February 09, 2009, 04:11:29 AM »
I forgot to put the link on Boggs put on to arc,

silly billy

Peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure

bogstandard

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #4 on: February 09, 2009, 04:14:08 AM »
It gets us all at some time Peter.

Offline Darren

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #5 on: February 09, 2009, 05:54:44 AM »
I had one once

I don't have it any more, should say it all  :ddb:
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Offline rleete

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #6 on: February 09, 2009, 08:32:18 AM »
I have one on the large drill press.  Looks identical, but is a Sears Craftsman unit.  I'd never use it for anthing but a drill press (i.e no milling).  Most of the time it sits on the base underneath collecting dust.
Creating scrap, one part at a time

Offline Bernd

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #7 on: February 09, 2009, 09:56:44 AM »
I agree with Bogs and rleete.

Mine looks like yours. Probably far eastern made. Mine also sits under the drill press collecting dust and swarf.

Bernd
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Offline NickG

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #8 on: February 09, 2009, 10:28:39 AM »
Don't waste your money. I had one when I was young and impressionable ... I thought it'd be a cheap way of doing some milling. It doesn't work at all and the casting cracked when tightening hand tight! Useless, put the money to one side and save up for a milling machine!

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline SPiN Racing

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #9 on: February 10, 2009, 12:19:09 AM »
I too thought they looked really neat... a good idea if properly executed.

Thankfully they had one on display at Wholesale Tool in Tampa.

COMPLETE junk. I mean.. wow.
THe cranks were flopping around.. everything was loose.. no provision to tighten anything up. THe lead screws had a tonnnn of play in them.
And it felt like... I dont know how to describe the metal. But it was light. Almost like it was air mixed iron if there is such a thing.

Very light weight.

They have had them on sale forever there.. and I cant stomach spending the $9.95 to buy one.
SPiN Racing

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #10 on: February 10, 2009, 02:09:06 AM »
Ok!

Right then......  ::)

No cross vice.......

And no heavy quality English bench drill, which I`ve been offered......

I`ll stick with my little £40 Chinese bench drill. (It is set up correctly & running well)......

Having read Boggie`s words on the Chester forum.

What if I order a Chester Conquest mill instead?

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

bogstandard

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #11 on: February 10, 2009, 03:08:53 AM »
Hi Dave,

http://www.chesteruk.net/store/conquest_mill.htm

You really need to talk with our John S about that one.

I recommended it to him, and as far as I know, he is more than happy with it, and there is always a but, he did do the belt mod on it (essential), and with the exchange rate as it is, is rather expensive. Plus tooling, collet holder etc. the figure is now into the 600's.

Whether you want to go that deep, the choice can only be yours.

John

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #12 on: February 10, 2009, 03:35:25 AM »
John,

At the start of this posting, I was thinking of present production of widgets, only.
Using just Conquest lathe, little bench drill........

I can`t advance into anything more advanced, without a milling machine!

I`m at a strange mind set.
We`ve had to be very carefull with money all our lives.
Now retired, and just realising, we`ve got savings & cashflow far in excess of our needs.

I just realised....... Why not buy a mill?

It`s a bloody good feeling! :thumbup:

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline NickG

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #13 on: February 10, 2009, 03:50:09 AM »
Dave,

That conquest does seem very expensive to me!

I got the equivalent of this machine: http://www.chesteruk.net/store/century_vs_mill.htm for £600 from this guy: http://www.amadeal.co.uk/xj20.htm. The advantages of it over something like the conquest are that it's a big heavy machine, with that comes better capacity and the motor is 1.5hp so despite being variable speed it still has good torque down to 50rpm. It also has anoter big advantge, the spindle can move separately to the column and it has a fine down feed on that too. I think there is more often than not a "but" with these chinese machines however, I'm happy with mine for the price. I also got a cheap collet chuck with ER 25 collets for less than £30 and a set of end mills for about £12 from a place on ebay that ships direct from China. The slides travel smoothly and can be adjusted alright (by my standards!). The handwheel divisions are not easy to use though, 0.060" a turn or something and over long lengths they become inaccurate, some simple digital scales might be a good addition I'm thinking, the surfaces are nice and flat so they will be easy to mount. A proper DRO would be great though.

Amadeal also do this one which is a step up from the conquest, more powerful motor and better table travel: http://www.amadeal.co.uk/xj12.htmIt's is the same as Warco's : http://www.warco.co.uk/Mini-Mill-Drill-EBFC17B0BF.aspx but only £398 instead of £475.


Nick

Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #14 on: February 10, 2009, 04:14:53 AM »
Nick,

Thank you for the info..... Here`s where it all starts to get confusing!  ::)

I don`t really want a heavier/ larger machine. I only have 18" deep machine bench.
Price, within reason is not a problem.
I have had previous, satisfactory dealings with Chester.
The Chester price includes delivery, (£45-£50 with Amadeal).

Hmmmmm.........  :scratch:







« Last Edit: February 10, 2009, 04:23:18 AM by Stilldrillin »
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline NickG

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #15 on: February 10, 2009, 09:49:45 AM »
That's true, although I haggled a little with the amadeal guy and got some money knocked off.

I think the Warco / amadeal one with the more powerful motor & bigger table is worth the extra, however, if you're dead set on the X2, Axminster also do the one you're talking about for a few quid less: http://www.axminster.co.uk/product-Axminster-SIEG-Axminster-SIEG-X2-Mini-Mill-568039.htm. At the price difference there though, you will just choose the supplier you prefer. I've had good dealings with axminster and chester in the past. Personally I prefer axminster and have heard a few bad reviews of Chester.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

bogstandard

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #16 on: February 10, 2009, 11:25:31 AM »
Dave seems to have made up his mind on the type and size of mill, and the decision must be his. We can only give him guidance as to our personal pro's and con's.

When I looked at this range of mills when doing a recommending exercise, the Chester one actually came out on top.

For 3 reasons mainly.

Included delivery, included head support ram mod already done and it came with a half decent milling vice. All that is worth 100 squid+ of anyone's cash.

With regards to the longer table offered by other suppliers. I summised that for a mill of this size, a longer table would not be that beneficial, in fact it could be detrimental. It would most probably cause more wear on the bed slideways because of excessive overhang and also make the machine slightly unstable and less rigid at extended lengths either side. Because of the size of the machine, I wouldn't like to try machining any lengths longer than the standard table, and if ever it was really needed, a solution could easily be found.

I too have used both Chester and Axminster for large tool purchases. I have also had problems with machines from both of them. People only ever tell you about the bad things, they never say when they get a good service or machine.

But my impression is that Chester wins hands down on after sales service, and they listen very carefully to complaints rather than just saying it is the manufacturers fault and leaving it at that.

They replaced my new lathe with a brand new one, plus they modified the replacement to my specifications at no charge, they even threw in some sweeteners, and were very apologetic for the inconvenience caused.

I had the 'manufacturers' answer from Axminster, and had to 'fix' the machine myself.

Which one would you recommend?

John

Offline Darren

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #17 on: February 10, 2009, 11:33:30 AM »
And didn't Chester give just the right response.... :thumbup:

Shame "other's" don't appreciate the full impact of the customer, armed with forums such as this we now have a powerful voice.

But also shame on us. We are only too happy to report problems, very few share experiences as well put as Johns.

Yep, that's some recommendation in anyones little world.... :clap: 
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

bogstandard

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #18 on: February 10, 2009, 12:41:01 PM »
Darren,

I must admit that it wasn't easy, as the items I had modded by them had a lot to do with health and safety, and they were reluctant to do them at first, as they had their hands tied by government legislation, and was leaving themselves wide open to future legal action. They had to get it cleared thru their legal department, which as usual took an age. But they did change their minds very quickly when cleared to do so. I also mentioned manufacturing faults linked to posting on the web. Not threats (well just a little), just general communication by email and phone. The delays were caused by the legal thing, they wanted to swap the lathe straight away, but I wouldn't let them until I got my illegal mods done.

So they even accommodated my wierd requests, at no charge to me.

Eventually, happy supplier, very happy customer.

John

Offline NickG

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #19 on: February 10, 2009, 03:21:03 PM »
Sounds like you eventually coaxed good service out of them then John, that can only be a good thing.

I am sure the conquest mill could do a good job and there are some good websites with mods that can be done etc. Just to chuck another idea into the pot, Machine mart do that machine too now, might be worth a look as they regularly have VAT free days, however, they might not be the best source as it's not really their main field.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #20 on: February 11, 2009, 02:02:43 AM »
Thanks chaps, for all your advice & alternative ideas.

I have had dealings with Chester over the past few years, and am comfortable continuing with them.

I intend to order a Conquest this morning.........

David.
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #21 on: February 19, 2009, 12:36:59 PM »
Strange old world, innit? :scratch:

Ten days ago, I couldn`t see myself ever owning a milling mc........  ::)

An hour or so ago, a nice young man in an enormous lorry, brought me a big box.  :clap:





It`s nice to have a project.

To add to all the others........  :thumbup:

David.

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #22 on: February 19, 2009, 02:13:31 PM »
Congrats David, I'm green with envy

David
So many ideas, so little skill

Offline Darren

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #23 on: February 19, 2009, 02:39:23 PM »
Very nice, bet we don't see him for a while  :lol:
You will find it a distinct help… if you know and look as if you know what you are doing. (IRS training manual)

Offline HS93

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Re: Cross Vice.
« Reply #24 on: February 19, 2009, 02:45:11 PM »
They are a nice bit of kit, I wanted one but they weigh half as much again as my small mill and as the wife has to do the lifting I thought i would give heir a break, I belive a few people have fitted the belt drive kit that gets rid of the gears, i fitted a simmilar one to my little mill and it made it a lot quieter and gave a bit more range . worth thinking about in the future.

peter
I am usless at metalwork, Oh and cannot spell either . failure