Author Topic: computer operating system  (Read 17983 times)

Offline redshift

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computer operating system
« on: December 10, 2012, 07:50:22 AM »
I have a 2 week old laptop with windows 7 operating system, I am about to buy my lad a new desktop for xmas.
I have my eye on a unit that is well priced but comes without an operating system installed, would I be able to just copy win7 from my laptop and load it onto his?
Regards
Dave

Offline David Jupp

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #1 on: December 10, 2012, 08:12:41 AM »
1. That wouldn't work.
2. That would contravene the licensing agreement

If you want free, go for a Linux (loads around to choose from).    If Windows is needed (e.g. for games), then you will have to pay out to be legal.  There should be good deals available on Win7 now Win8 is out...

Offline redshift

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #2 on: December 10, 2012, 08:43:52 AM »
David, Thanks for the reply, I will do as you say.
Regards
Dave

Offline Jo

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #3 on: December 10, 2012, 12:38:00 PM »
If you have an old windows machine, you can transfer that operating system to the new machine (deleting the old one) and then buy the windows 8 upgrade for £25.

Jo
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Offline raynerd

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #4 on: December 10, 2012, 12:56:09 PM »
Jo - have you tried windows 8 yet  :zap:

Offline bhowden

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #5 on: December 10, 2012, 02:09:09 PM »
>>>>Have you tried Windows 8

Yes.  There were certainly a few days of "What the hell have they done, this is nuts!!!" but I did get used to it and don't mind it now.  I was very surprised to find that it was actually quicker on old tired hardware.

Brian

Offline awemawson

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #6 on: December 10, 2012, 05:20:23 PM »
Strictly speaking, a Windows 7 license permits you to load up to three computers with the same 'COA' number - (certainly this is true for Win 7 Professional). You need the original disk though.

Not sure though if this would apply if the machines were actually owned by different people eg you and your son.


BTW most reports of Win 8 I've heard refer to it as alike " My First Operating System" ie totally dumbed down with kiddy like chunky buttons etc.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline doubleboost

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #7 on: December 10, 2012, 05:41:01 PM »
We have windows 8 on a machine at work  :doh: :doh: :doh: :doh:
I run windows 7 at home :D :D :D :D
But xp pro is the one to beat  :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool: :drool:

Offline David Jupp

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #8 on: December 11, 2012, 02:44:32 AM »
Unfortunately, new software from some vendors will soon no longer support WinXP !  Not sure if this will mean 'not tested on XP, may work' or if it will mean 'will not work on XP'.

Just something to be aware of.

Offline DavidA

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #9 on: December 11, 2012, 06:23:29 AM »
Dave
(redshift)

It is true that the three machines licence only applies to machines owned by you.

But didn't I hear somewhere that the machine your son has is actually owned by you and is only on loan to him ?

Don't know if it needs to be in the same building as the others.

Dave :thumbup:

p.s.  Having hideous problems with XP on my main machine.


Offline redshift

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #10 on: December 11, 2012, 06:34:09 AM »
DavidA, I understand your point and will look into it, also thanks to the knowledge base on here I will also look at the old laptop and desktops I have kicking around and possibly upgrade one of them. I only need to upgrade to Win7 as I don't think Win 8 will suit our needs at present.
Once again, thanks guys for all your input.
Regards
Dave

Offline Jo

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #11 on: December 11, 2012, 08:16:23 AM »
Win 7 is three times the price of Win 8... I wonder why  :hammer:

Jo
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Offline AdeV

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #12 on: December 11, 2012, 08:57:32 AM »

BTW most reports of Win 8 I've heard refer to it as alike " My First Operating System" ie totally dumbed down with kiddy like chunky buttons etc.


Interestingly, the same accusations were leveled at Windows XP when it came out (It was accused of looking a lot like Teletubbies. Ironic it went on to be MS's most successful OS...
Cheers!
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Offline awemawson

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #13 on: December 11, 2012, 12:52:56 PM »
I reckon Windows 2000 Professional was actually the best - brought through all the goodies from NT4. Shame loads of stuff won't run on it :(

Andrew Mawson
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Offline trevoratxtal

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #14 on: December 11, 2012, 01:13:24 PM »
In my judgement after fixing and upgrading hundreds of machines (over the years)  for out local club members and family.
Is if you must have Windows stick to XP it is the most stable and most if not all bugs are now sorted, and yes due to expire soon.
Or go for Linux and forget a lot of your computer woes, I find PCLinuxOS(  http://www.pclinuxos.com/ )the easiest to install and maintain.
The learning curve is not to bad, the standard KDE ver is similar to Windows but comes with Hundreds of free software.
Mint and Puppy are good for small installs, but do not use any Ubuntu versions as they contain spy software that slows the system and sends personal information to South Africa not unlike Windows.
There that is my personal opinion.
Trev

Offline DavidA

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #15 on: December 11, 2012, 03:08:40 PM »
Trevor,

...but do not use any Ubuntu versions as they contain spy software that slows the system and sends personal information to South Africa not unlike Windows....

I've heard this before, (about XP) and have refrained from downloading the updates for my XP since being made aware.

Can you tell us how to find out if the spy programs are part of the instalation. Which files should I be looking for ?

Dave

Offline mattinker

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #16 on: December 11, 2012, 03:47:13 PM »

...but do not use any Ubuntu versions as they contain spy software that slows the system and sends personal information to South Africa not unlike Windows....

Dave, can you give your sources for this extraordinary allegation?

Regards, Matthew (who uses nothing but Ubuntu!)

Offline trevoratxtal

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #17 on: December 12, 2012, 01:20:16 AM »
To follow up on the spyware
for Ubuntu.
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2012/12/07/stallman_on_ubuntu_spyware/
Search Ubuntu Spy on Google.
As for Windows it started with services pack 2 on XP and has been in all versions since and can not easily be taken out.
Not only does such software open a back door to virus's but is intrusive for profit.
Trev

Offline mattinker

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #18 on: December 12, 2012, 06:37:15 AM »
Thanks Dave,

I'm running 10.04, apparently, the change comes in with 12.10, so I won't move on to that! It'll be another Linux distribution, not 12.10 that I'll go to next!

Thanks again, Matthew

Offline jiihoo

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #19 on: December 12, 2012, 07:25:33 AM »
Regarding the Ubuntu search (Home Lens) controversy: Reading the following post after the Stallman post linked to earlier might be worthwhile: http://www.jonobacon.org/2012/12/07/on-richard-stallman-and-ubuntu/. As always, there are two sides to everything.

My own thoughts about this subject:
Was it a good idea by Canonical to include internet & Amazon results to Ubuntu local searches: me thinks not.
Did they fix the issue after feedback from the users: me thinks yes as it is now configurable.
Is this a strong enough reason to "shun away from Ubuntu" and throw away all the good with the bad: me thinks not.

It seems like this issue provoked pretty strong reactions from various people on the net and the matter got blown maybe a little out of proportion. A little bit less "enthusiastic" treatment of the subject might have been better for the open source community.

But do read both of the links and google the issue and form your own opinion.


Cheers,

Jari

Offline mattinker

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #20 on: December 12, 2012, 09:49:34 AM »
Jari,

thanks, I've done some additional searching and reading since I replied to this thread. This started in October of 2012 and has subsequently been made "switch off able" which means that it's still there until you stop it. I haven't seen the OS 12.10 yet, but I shall be following things very closely.

I hope this isn't going to frighten away potential users as the Free software principal is important.

Regards, Matthew

Offline jgroom

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #21 on: December 13, 2012, 01:59:16 PM »
Well I've been using 12.10 since it came out and as of yet I've had no South African carpet-baggers show up at my door.  :loco:  But seriously, all of the 'free' software services (yahoo, google, bing, facebook, etc.) have been data-mining it's users for years regardless of your OS.  There's nothing free without someone making a profit.

OK, now I've depressed myself.  :palm:

Cheers  :beer:

Jeff

Offline mattinker

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #22 on: December 14, 2012, 07:02:52 AM »
Jeff,

from what I've read, this was introduced in October 2012, so if you've been using an earlier version and haven't updated it you're not concerned by it!

Regards, Matthew

Offline hopefuldave

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #23 on: January 19, 2013, 09:50:22 AM »
I'm going to second the "XP if you need Windows"!

Anything after XP (Vista onwards) has, I believe, Digital Rights Management built in - it's intended to "prevent" media piracy but I found it wouldn't let me use my "racket room" PC any more when I tried to upgrade!

It objected to the audio inputs and outputs being 24-bit instead of 16 (so up to "professional" pirate standard), the fact my PC had 16 channels each of full-duplex inputs and outputs, and the fact I didn't have DRM licences for music *I had made myself*. It locked the machine down to 2 16-bit inputs and 2 16-bit outputs as the hardware wasn't on the "approved" list.

After making enquiries, I found Microshaft would sell me a licence to play / record *my own* music, but the price made me faint...

I went back to XP Pro, and stuck with old, stable software...

Most of the XP "updates" which will be cut off soon are for known Microsoft-authored vulnerabilities to viruses etc., not really an issue for a machine that's kept off-line (e.g. home studio, CAD/CAM machines that sit in quiet isolation Doing A Job). 

Just my ha'pennorth,
Dave H. (the other one)
Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men.

Offline BillTodd

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #24 on: January 19, 2013, 11:10:06 AM »
Have to agree with Dave  I don't believe Vista/Win7/Win8 etc. have made add anything positive to windows (the last great leap being NT4/2K IMHO)

With Linux (Ubuntu) adding all sorts of unwanted crap to an otherwise fine O/S it make me wonder where to go when MS finally push* us off XP

Bill

*MS seem to do this by issuing new compilers to software developers. The new compilers create code that simply won't run on what MS consider to be obsolete O/Ss
Bill

Offline DavidA

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #25 on: January 19, 2013, 12:17:16 PM »
This is slightly off topic,  but not much.

All this changing and updating of operating systems,  and the constant changing of media is a really serious problem.
Data storage came via tape to 8" floppy,  5 1/4 floppy,  3 1/2 floppy,  CD,  DVD,  flash cards to to point where most people have things on systems they can no longer access.
We all probably enjoy reading the history of engineering and about the lives of our engineering and scientific heros.  But I feel that we have seen the last of this.
Where will all the info come from that is used by biographers ? No more letters. No more scratchins on the back of envelopes.  Emails ? No chance.

We are losing our heritage.

The good old book is the only way that we can reliably store our past.  Having just had to wipe an 80 gig hard drive (and lose ann the data and apps that were on it) because that was the only option to recover the drive, I have no faith in computers as the means to record our history.

How do you folks feel ?

Dave.

Offline BillTodd

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #26 on: January 19, 2013, 12:46:18 PM »
Quote
How do you folks feel ?
I think you're right.  It is far too easy to lose computer data or worst the means to read the media it is on .

Bill

Offline andyf

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #27 on: January 19, 2013, 08:28:28 PM »
I'm with you on that, Dave. In fact, you have reminded me that it's months since I last backed up my files on to a DVD so I can reload it if the HD goes phut.

Like you, I fear for posterity. With paper, those interested in such things can look at the author's manuscript/typewritten drafts, or first folio editions of Shakespeare. But that won't happen with modern works. Still, the authoress's first thoughts on Fifty Shades of Grey* are perhaps best consigned to oblivion.

Andy

*I have read a chapter or two, but found there was too much beating about the bush  :) .
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I've cut the end off it twice, but it's still too short

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #28 on: January 20, 2013, 06:26:17 AM »
Very sobering thought Dave , the outcome dose look bleak already public library's are disappearing.


Quote
*I have read a chapter or two, but found there was too much beating about the bush
  :lol: :lol:


Rob

Offline AdeV

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #29 on: January 20, 2013, 11:04:57 AM »
*I have read a chapter or two, but found there was too much beating about the bush  :) .

Hm, I'm sure it was called something else when I were a lad...

Anyway...

Dave - you're spot on. I have a bit of an interest in old computers and, as it happens, was ploughing through a number of old compact cassette tapes just yesterday, trying to figure out what was on them. Most of these I've acquired, rather than created myself, so it's interesting to see other people's musings on tape. Or old floppy disk...

The other interesting thing is, how digital storage media have become less & less reliable; I have 30+ year old 5.1/4" floppy disks which I can still read/write to; most of my 3.1/2" disks were junk as long as 10 years ago. CD-R seem to have a shelf life of 5 years or less. Hard drives seem to be about the best bet, although modern ones don't like to be left lying around for long periods without working...

Seems to me, anything you want to leave around for your ancestors and/or archaeologists, you're better off printing.... Or carving into aluminium sheets  :proj:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #30 on: February 15, 2013, 09:35:43 AM »
I'm probably the only one here who uses Puppy Linux , but have done for 3 years. And I use it for work as well as -- well everything. My wife, who is a contract book and magazine copy editor, also uses it for work.

It takes some learning to begin with, and sometimes I have to use creative means to get new hardware to work with it (since hardware drivers are almost always written to be compatible with Windows or Mac OS), but I've never failed so far to get what I needed. The Puppy Linux forum always comes to the rescue when there's a new hardware problem.

Why do I use a relatively unknown OS?

It is spectacular in what it can run on at very high speed -- you can actually run a version of Puppy Linux on a 486 computer and surf the web. On the other hand It will run on the newest hardware.

It is tiny. The whole OS is about 100 megabytes in size. It will easily fit on any media, CD, thumb drive, whatever, and it can operate beside your regular operating system. Dual booting is easy 

If desired you can create a virtual hard drive inside a single large file (called a "frugal" install)  on your operating system, and it will happily operate within that file, saving data only within that file (or elsewhere, if desired).

A frugal install is easy to back up because it is a single file. In fact the OS itself can operate off of a CD (it is small enough and fast enough to take a reasonable time to load that way).

If you operate off of a closed CD, viruses can't touch it (you start fresh from the CD every time you boot) -- although it is generally virus resistant anyway.

The reason it is so fast is that the whole operating system, plus included applications (word processor, spreadsheet, graphics editors, utilities, media, etc.) is loaded into RAM memory on start up and operates from there.

If you add other application programs that you like, you can effectively re-write the operating system with those programs included onto a CD, and call it whatever you want an distribute it. Such variations are called "puplets" and may have specialty uses -- I wrote one once that was specialized for video and graphics editing, with many different editors on board. I still pop the CD into the computer every once in awhile to do editing work, without disturbing my regular Puppy Linux OS (or Win7 also on this machine).

I find I might start up Windows 7 once a month for some specialized application that has no equivalent in Linux. But that is becoming rarer and rarer for me.

I do use WINE which is an additional  compatibility layer for running many Windows programs under Linux. It won't run everything, but I do frequently use it to run Google "SketchUp", Josh Madison's "Convert", 7-Zip, and a few other utilities.

The disadvantages?

Puppy Linux takes a pretty good learning curve to start with -- it will seem odd to those used to recent versions of Windows, though more familiar to users of Win 98 and 2000 in structure. And it's sometimes tough to get new hardware up and running, particularly if Linux drivers haven't yet been written by the Linux volunteer community to suit. But for older hardware it will convert an old windows clunker into a modern high speed machine. Anything over 300 megabytes in memory and a Pentium II will feel like it is suddenly supercharged. Well actually newer hardware will also react the same way.

One other area of confusion is that there are now many different Puppy Linuxes -- that is actually encouraged rather than discouraged. The main line Puppies are written by Barry Kauler, the originator.

I run a Kauler  version of puppy caller Racy on a newer low end dual processor laptop. Older computers might better run Kauler's Wary, or Puppy linux 4.3.2.

For very old computers, there is a well-updated classic version called Puppy 2.15.

And then of course there are a million specialized puplets. I tend to stay away from those as the authors often seem to tire of providing free one-man support after a few years of questions and challenges from users. Either that or they get hired by industry as software developers!

For me, I think the greatest attraction of Puppy Linux is that I am fully in control of the OS. It doesn't control me. It's like a machine tool that way. It can start out basic and simple, and be extended in any direction I wish. Of course that takes some study and learning about how it works, but I like that sort of thing.  :thumbup:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline trevoratxtal

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #31 on: February 15, 2013, 11:35:59 AM »
Hello vtsteam
While my main Linux is PcLinuxOs, I use Puppy for some workshop control (really old machine) and on a media server, connected to the Tely.
It is a great small version, I can highly commend.
Geexbox is another recommended for media playing.(no disk drive required to run)
Trev

Offline AdeV

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #32 on: February 15, 2013, 05:46:43 PM »
It is tiny. The whole OS is about 100 megabytes in size.

Heh, funny how measures like "tiny" change over time, in the computer world.

My first computer was a Sinclair QL in 1984 - Sinclair was struggling to fit his OS into 32k... in the end, he failed, and the early machines went out with a "kludge", a 16K eprom with the overspill contained within it.

And yet, within that 48K, the system contained a complete implementation of BASIC, a disk operating system capable of operating tapes, disk drives, hard-drives, serial connections and a network. No point and click though.... that came later (in a 16K eprom...).

For those who didn't study computers at school...

1 bit = ON or OFF (the fundamental binary unit)
8 bits = 1 byte (4 bits = a nybble... geek humour at it's most droll)
1kB = 1024 bytes (1 kilobyte. A Sinclair ZX80 has 1 KB of RAM, 1 KB of ROM)
1MB = 1024KB (1 megabyte - even at the end of the 1980s, this was considered a large amount of memory)
1GB = 1024MB
1TB = 1024GB (Terabyte)

So, my QL OS fitted into 49,152 bytes (with some left over)
Puppy requires about 104,857,600 approx - approximately two thousand times bigger....

And the point of all this?

Well, if a "small" OS now is 2000 times the size of a small os 30 years ago, apply the same calculation to an OS in 30 years time...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #33 on: February 15, 2013, 07:58:23 PM »
My first computer had 4k and I soldered 4116's piggyback onto those, and bought out 1 pin to solder in an address line. I used to program in Z-80 assembly language and FORTH in 1K screens.

So I use the term "tiny" in a relative sense!  :lol:


btw, though the early personal computers had BASIC onboard, they sure didn't have WYSIWYG word processing, spreadsheets, movie players, graphics editors, wireless communications, and about 100 other programs already built into the OS as Puppy Linux does, so the size comparison is a bit lopsided.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
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Offline trevoratxtal

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #34 on: February 16, 2013, 02:41:14 AM »
My first computer had 4k and I soldered 4116's piggyback onto those, and bought out 1 pin to solder in an address line. I used to program in Z-80 assembly language and FORTH in 1K screens.

So I use the term "tiny" in a relative sense!  :lol:


btw, though the early personal computers had BASIC onboard, they sure didn't have WYSIWYG word processing, spreadsheets, movie players, graphics editors, wireless communications, and about 100 other programs already built into the OS as Puppy Linux does, so the size comparison is a bit lopsided.
Sounds like a Nascom 1 or 11
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nascom
http://www.computinghistory.org.uk/det/8934/Nascom-1
if so you may have purchased it from me. :lol:
Trev

Offline DMIOM

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #35 on: February 16, 2013, 06:21:12 AM »
Well Trev, that certainly brings back memories - I had just dredged Nascom from my memory and then scrolled down to your message!

A Nascom 1 was built at Uni in I think it was Autumn 1978 - I think it was nominally under the auspices of G3OUL, our RadSoc.

Because of that, I also recall getting into bother - we were being taught 8080 assembler but I was using Nascom out-of-class and there were some instructions where the mnemonics were different for the same operation (for copyright reasons?) and I used the Zilog instead of the Intel ones in a test or exam (was it LD vs MV?).

My first standalone venture was an 8008 with 16 bytes - assembled from quad TTL latches!

and talking of memory - the first mini I had much to do with was a CTL "Mod 1". It had 120k of memory and would support 40+ concurrent users editting, compiling & test running Algol programs. Twas an interesting beast to start - toggle in the bootstrap loader from the front-panel switches, then read in the startup paper tape - then console & discs were active.

Then on to programming 8048 using the blue-cased Intel MDS ....

Nostalgia's definitely not what it used to be !  :beer:

Dave

Offline AdeV

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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #36 on: February 16, 2013, 07:25:55 AM »
Hmmm....

Would either of you guys (or anyone who's reading/lurking - PM me of if you don't want to break cover) be up to diagnosing a fault/faults on an S-100 BUS based computer?

I have a fairly elderly Micromat PCB drilling/routing machine, the control computer is, as far as I can tell, S-100 based, and is exhibiting bit-rot behavior. My electronics skills just aren't up to diagnosing the fault, although I probably have most of the kit you'd need to do the job (multimeter, oscilloscope and HP logic analyser).

There would be a £ reward for fixing it...

(the alternative is to dump the old computer & drive the main cab with a modern PC... but what's the fun of that?)
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline trevoratxtal

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  • Country: england
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Re: computer operating system
« Reply #37 on: February 16, 2013, 12:47:27 PM »
Well Trev, that certainly brings back memories - I had just dredged Nascom from my memory and then scrolled down to your message!

A Nascom 1 was built at Uni in I think it was Autumn 1978 - I think it was nominally under the auspices of G3OUL, our RadSoc.

Because of that, I also recall getting into bother - we were being taught 8080 assembler but I was using Nascom out-of-class and there were some instructions where the mnemonics were different for the same operation (for copyright reasons?) and I used the Zilog instead of the Intel ones in a test or exam (was it LD vs MV?).

My first standalone venture was an 8008 with 16 bytes - assembled from quad TTL latches!

and talking of memory - the first mini I had much to do with was a CTL "Mod 1". It had 120k of memory and would support 40+ concurrent users editting, compiling & test running Algol programs. Twas an interesting beast to start - toggle in the bootstrap loader from the front-panel switches, then read in the startup paper tape - then console & discs were active.

Then on to programming 8048 using the blue-cased Intel MDS ....

Nostalgia's definitely not what it used to be !  :beer:

Dave
Well Dave  and Adev that brings back memory's.
I was the owner of Crystal electronics and Md of Chrystal Research.
Retired now.
Contact me direct Email I can phone you for free (UK) if you would like to chat.
Adev contact me direct I will try to talk you through a fix
Trev
« Last Edit: February 17, 2013, 11:12:07 AM by trevoratxtal »