Author Topic: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill  (Read 16777 times)

Offline sbwhart

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Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« on: February 28, 2009, 02:51:03 PM »
Some time ago a guy I know told me his son had a Drill for sale for £25 and was I interested, at £25 I thought it wouldn't be up to much and was not to enthusiastic, but he insisted I go and look at it, so nothing ventured nothing gained. When I got there I nearly bit his hand off for it, as it was a Startright free standing piller drill with two speed ranges  :D.



Now her's the bad news the on off and emergeny stop switch was missing, the guy had got round this by wiring it up so you could stop start it from the plug switch.




I bought a replacement switch but being a bit thick when it comes to electrics I havn't a clue how to wire it up.  :zap:



Can any of you chaps give me an idiots guide on how to do it.

Cheers

an electrical idiot

Stew
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #1 on: March 01, 2009, 12:44:35 AM »
I know enough to do it if I were there Stew!!

My first call would be know how the cut off switch works, If you have a multi-meter use that on continuity or resistance to help sort out the poles (unless you have a diagram with the switch?)

Meter across the poles showing any figures = closed circuit (flow allowed) push the switch and the figures go = open circuit (flow stopped)

You could use a battery some wires and a bulb?



in the C-o-C  the bulb and battery could be swapped for the multi-meter etc.


Once you know the way the switch works you split the power feed line BEFORE the drive switch and attach it to the two terminals of the switch that you just found to work the correct way ( This should allow the power to be isolated from the other switch and the motor)


Now I'd give it a half day at least for someone to tell you I'm wrong.... Possible?  it is 5:30 am (get the excuses in there first!!!) But that's the way I'd do that bit!



If it's ok with you, I would need to research the direction switch wiring.... pictures of the terminals might help?  I'd still probably work it out in a similar way to above if I were there.

Has either switch got a circuit diagram on the side?




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #2 on: March 01, 2009, 01:29:24 AM »
Hi Ralph

Thanks for that there is a wiring diagram with the switch but it means nothing to me  :scratch: I'll scan it and post it later.

Thanks Again

  :wave:
Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
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Location:- Crewe Cheshire

Offline Darren

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #3 on: March 01, 2009, 06:27:45 AM »
As Ralph says Stew, it would be a doddle if we had the parts in our hands.

Remote advice at this stage could be dangerous....we need more info, connections and/or diagrams would help...

Maybe when I'm at Johns next sat we can have a look at the bits you have?
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bogstandard

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #4 on: March 01, 2009, 06:43:28 AM »
If you come over today Stew, bring them along and I will sort out the electric string connections for you.

John

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #5 on: March 01, 2009, 03:07:10 PM »
Ralph/Darren

Thanks for the offer to help lads, but John sorted me out this afternoon  :zap:

Very educational and enjoyable visit as always  Thanks John  :thumbup:

Cheers
 :wave:
Stew
« Last Edit: March 02, 2009, 03:20:47 AM by sbwhart »
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #6 on: March 01, 2009, 07:16:42 PM »
No worries Stew.

At least your up and going  :doh:   Now......   :worthless:   



We need to make sure this  :zap:   isn't the case!!




Ralph.
I know what I know and need to know more!!!

Offline sbwhart

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #7 on: March 05, 2009, 12:37:38 PM »
OK  Carfully followed John's instructions and Hay Presto :zap:

It works



Thanks for your help Chaps, I realy don't like messing about with electrical stuff, its probably the fact that I don't understand it,

I handle hazardouse stuff routeenly and don't think twice about it:- I guess its a case of what your use to. :thumbup:

Thaks a lot.

Stew
A little bit of clearance never got in the road
 :wave:

Location:- Crewe Cheshire

bogstandard

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #8 on: March 05, 2009, 02:12:46 PM »
Thank goodness it worked Stew, I wasn't going to wire it up for you, I know nothing about electrics, I took a guess when I did that drawing for you. :lol:

Now on a more serious note, if you don't know what you are about to do, get help with it. It is easy getting the electric string into place and working, making sure the switches and cabling won't be overloaded is another thing.

The number of people who have wired things up and think they have succeeded, only to find the junky find bits of control gear or cabling burst into flames after a time, and burn down their house or workshop.
 
Have you all got a torch and fire extinguisher in your shops?, just in case it happens to you. They are more important than the latest bits of tooling.

John
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 04:51:46 PM by bogstandard »

Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #9 on: March 05, 2009, 03:03:29 PM »
The Bogster's comments are not amis.

Depending upon your local wiring protocols you usually have three wires for single phase stuff,  ground, phase and neutral.  In some systems (and I think the UK is one) the neutral is grounded somewhere (in our case it is grounded at the fuse box) and the phase is the one you switch on and off. 

If you wire a system with the switch in the neutral line that will certainly stop and start your machine but turning the switch off still leaves live phase power on the machine which can cause havoc with expected returns on your superannuation investments.  You can also get a situation where the machine is 'live' but still works, you might not know it is live especially if it is a dry environment and you always wear your rubber work boots in your workshop but if you happen to touch that machine while holding, for example, a properly earthed power tool someone in your family is due for a very nasty suprise.

"It works" does not always mean it is correctly or safely done.  If you are qualified John then there is no concern, well............otherwise............ :coffee:
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #10 on: March 05, 2009, 03:16:46 PM »
My workshop is 40m from the house and fed by a ring made from armoured cable buried 9" inches under the garden but for safety I decided to wire the ground/earth to a copper pipe driven about 5ft into the ground.
So many ideas, so little skill

Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #11 on: March 05, 2009, 03:56:56 PM »

Twinsquirrel,  good move on the local earth stake! :thumbup:  However, is the neutral grounded?  If so is it grounded at the workshop or back at the fuse board?
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #12 on: March 05, 2009, 04:20:04 PM »
Hi John,

Its' a long time since I did the theory but I think in the UK the neutral is grounded at the substation/transformer and SOMETIMES at the entry to the property.

All this is purely accedemic as it is now illegal for anyone without a current IEEE/IEC certificate to modify the wiring in any dwelling or business property. You can however install wiring etc and then have it checked by a current (no pun intended) qualified electrician who will sign it off before it is connected to the supply.

I could be wrong, it's a very long time since I had any proper education on this.

David

EDIT: The above doesn't apply to Stews mill as it is plugged in not hard wired
« Last Edit: March 05, 2009, 05:06:54 PM by Twinsquirrel »
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #13 on: March 05, 2009, 04:37:45 PM »
TS,  I dont understand why 'plug ins' should be exempt from wiring controls and inspections.  It is all too easy to transpose earth and neutral or neutral and phase at the plug or on the appliance.
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #14 on: March 05, 2009, 04:48:56 PM »
John,

We have lots of wiered legacy laws over here, the law makers have tried to cut down on the number of accidents due to incorrectly wired appliances by stipulating the all electrical items are sold with tamper-proof plugs bonded to the cable. Stupidly this does not apply to extension cables believe it or not.

David
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #15 on: March 05, 2009, 04:56:50 PM »
David, we have lost a few good folks in NZ through incorrectly wired extension cords.  A couple of incidents really made the news when improperly wired extension cords were used to get power to caravans.  I forget the specifics but IIRC the fatal combination required both ends to be wired wrong, the result was phase on the caravan chassis.

Having watched Mr Bean I assumed all appliances were sold in the UK without the plug?
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #16 on: March 05, 2009, 04:59:52 PM »
Quote
Having watched Mr Bean I assumed all appliances were sold in the UK without the plug

You're not far wrong, Bean is like a fly on the wall documentary of my life

David
So many ideas, so little skill

Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #17 on: March 05, 2009, 05:09:10 PM »
Between Mr Bean and Coronation Street I feel I am very well informed on life in the country my grandfather left as an infant in the century before last. :beer:
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bogstandard

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #18 on: March 05, 2009, 05:23:02 PM »
Just a note,

None of this should really be being discussed in open public, as someone could easily get confused and take law into their own hands and hurt themselves. A little bit of information can be worse than no information at all.

I have had a bit of private contact over this post, regarding safety issues, and that was relayed to Stew when he came over.

So I for one will not be adding any more to this post, just in case.


John

Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #19 on: March 05, 2009, 05:41:59 PM »
OK John, no problem.
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #20 on: March 05, 2009, 05:51:14 PM »
Agreed, the "little knowledge" part is something I am guilty of.

Quote
All this is purely accedemic as it is now illegal for anyone without a current IEEE/IEC certificate to modify the wiring in any dwelling or business property. You can however install wiring etc and then have it checked by a current (no pun intended) qualified electrician who will sign it off before it is connected to the supply.

If you are in the UK take note of the above otherwise you will be breaking the law and probably very dead.

David
So many ideas, so little skill

Offline Darren

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #21 on: March 06, 2009, 02:45:54 AM »
I think you are all being a little paranoid here,

There is nothing in UK law to stop you wiring or altering the wiring of your own home and premises apart from in kitchens and bathrooms.

The rules state any competent person may carry out these alterations, they don't state what is regarded as competent though.

Different if you are doing it for financial gain of course.

Same goes for gas, any competent person. Though Corgi would have you believe otherwise.
Besides, they are not recognised now anyway. Got thrown out, some new regulating body has appeared.

On another site we discuss high voltage valve amplifiers, their circuits and how to build them. High as in 250-1,500VDC though I do tend to use higher voltages myself occasionally.
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Offline John Hill

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #22 on: March 06, 2009, 03:21:26 AM »
Um, dont think I am paranoid.  Although my electrical registration expired in the 60's the basic principles will not have changed and I know how a dangerous situation can arise especially in a workshop which is quite different to the typical domestic situation where things like earthing are quite different and are more akin to the kitchen and bathroom than the rest of the house.

I also understand, though dont know the details, that wiring colours have been going through a period of change in the UK which no doubt leads added complication to anyone who is not thoroughly up to the play.

However, I am not competant in the UK electrical scene and will not give any advice over what I have already done and that is to be very careful and not accept that it works as proof the situation is safe.

BTW Darren I just sold a Collins radio transmitter to someone in the US,  it took me all one weekend to make the two crates and get them to the shipping company.  It has a 3000Volt HT power supply and stands in a full height cabinet with a glass window in the front so you can see the colour of the PA Anode!  Circa 1952.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #23 on: March 06, 2009, 03:59:36 AM »
Hi John,

By paranoid I wasn't referring to the safety aspects, more the who can and who can't work on the circuits.

One of the major retail outlets B&Q will sell you almost anything electrical required for the home environment to any member of the public. If Joe public wasn't allowed they wouldn't be able to sell it to you.

I agree, electricity can be very dangerous in the wrong hands, but then so can our machinery. In fact many of our home machines would never be allowed in a work place. That's how come we can get them so cheaply. Different rules apply.

But it's like anything else, if you don't understand what you are doing then you should either educate yourself if so inclined, or leave it to someone better able, pref qualified to do such work.

BTW, the "new" colours are not new, they have always been around. They just changed the colour of twin and earth cabling to match other types.

Neutral is bonded back at the power station in the UK. Very few homes have the old system of an earth rod today. But please, do make sure "ALL" your machines are earthed properly if you do nothing else. Your life "will" depend on it at some point. After that make sure you have some sort of safety trip device, RCB's, MCB's etc. 
What ever you do do not run a twin and earth to your workshop for power. Used armored cable.

If in doubt, let a professional do the installation and make sure you get one in to give it the once over. You will need it for your insurance etc.

Nothing in the home wiring is complicated, but you do need to do it right.
If you don't understand the principals, then please don't do it.


But then again, the latest British Gas advert most of you may have seen on the telly recently shows you a sure way to kill yourself and no doubt any linesmen working on any power lines in your area.

Tut, tut.....
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Offline Twinsquirrel

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Re: Wire up off on and emergeny switch on my drill
« Reply #24 on: March 06, 2009, 11:28:38 AM »
Interesting Darren, My info on wiring was what was told to me by the sparky who came to wire the lights etc in our conservatory, it seems he gave me a bum steer and was just trying to protect his own business/trade. The law changes are explained here http://www.diynot.com/wiki/electrics:part_p:diy_electrical_work_and_the_lawand I have to apologise passing on dodgy info.

Just to avoid confusion my earth stake just augments the existing earth running in the armoured cable.

David
So many ideas, so little skill