Author Topic: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!  (Read 269523 times)

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #25 on: March 02, 2013, 08:46:01 AM »
Well so far no drama. Wired it up to a 32A 3ph socket, made sure estop button was on, closed my eyes and switched on. Fans whirred, relays clicked, leds illuminated all over the place in the control cabinets. Pressed the 'nc on' button (power to the controller) and sure enough the control powered up, blinked a few leds on its cards then sat there. Nothing on the monitor, blank, zilch, nowt! So now I need to pull out the monitor and scope its drive signals to see if it's being spoken to, or if its rudely ignoring the controller!

Sort of progress as we had no slamming around of the axis drives or spindles going into warp drive.

Time for lunch and a bit of thinking  now- extracting the monitor looks to be an adventure.

 :beer:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #26 on: March 02, 2013, 09:16:39 AM »
...he...he  415V three phase at 160 amps per phase here with the 11kv to 415v transformer in my wife's vegetable plot !......

Ah - this makes sense now - there was some confusion as to why OFGEM reported a looming power crisis for Britain
 

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #27 on: March 02, 2013, 11:25:27 AM »
Well DMION you should be ok on the Isle of Man - after all you have that huge overshot water wheel  :med:

So I managed to extract the display without too much hassle and scope its interface. Usual issue of cables not long enough to put is somewhere sensible for test. Two connectors Mains and a modular one with 10 poles - no active signals on any of them, so as the cathode heater is glowing gently, and there is a red led gleaming on the main board I reckon the problem lies with the controller.

I desperately need to make friendly contact with someone with knowledge of the Mitsubishi 320 controls. Really need to get it put on a test rig. Traub would do it but my pockets are not deep enough for that !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #28 on: March 12, 2013, 02:45:50 PM »
Well, major progress on the documentation front: I've managed to get manuals for most of the elements of the control as installed allbeit as installed in more standard configurations. Also got fairly detailed manuals for the main (18Kw) and opposing (11 Kw)  spindle drives and the axis drives.

From this I've managed to work out in my mind which bits do what (it's an odd set up with bits of rom and ram dotted all over the place). The main CPU board as well as its 32 bit microprocessor has a dedicated subservient cpu dedicated to servicing the axis and spindle drives - and has shared ram through which they communicate. On board this cpu board is ram that holds the users CNC code. There is a ram card with battery back up that holds all the parameters specific to the machine tool. There are a pair of rom boards that give the controller its basic personality, and one of them takes an extra chunk of rom plugged into it that sets up the onboard PLC (Programmable Logic Controller) used to establish the 'ladder logic' for controlling the various functions such as tool turret rotation, parts catcher in or out etc. Masses of digital inputs and outputs on this controller.

I have a very strong suspicion that one (or both) of two cards in the control are faulty and at huge expense have sourced some in America that hopefully will be arriving in a few days time.

In the mean time while I'm waiting I'm doing a 'physiological tidy up' getting the wiring back into its correct trunking, sorting out loose wires and this evening actually giving it a 'wash & brush up' . I find it far more motivating working on a clean machine than poking around muck and grime.

What fabulous stuff Sugar Soap is. The cabinet paintwork was covered in years of baked on grime, but is cleaning up a treat with a bucket of warm sugar soapy water and a bit of elbow grease. Never used it previously on machines, just prior to painting and decorating - definitely stuff to keep in the workshop.
 
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete.

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #29 on: March 12, 2013, 03:29:51 PM »
It'll be very satisfying to hear that puppy power up when it does. Cheers for posting it up.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #30 on: March 12, 2013, 03:52:14 PM »
It'll be very satisfying to hear that puppy power up when it does. Cheers for posting it up.


I live in hope Pete, but as John S said in his usual encouraging way - it'll make a fine pen for my pigs if I fail to sort it !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #31 on: March 12, 2013, 05:47:21 PM »
Well I'm rooting for you awemason. If the controller doesn't pan out, though, didn't you mention a LinuxCNC box first post?
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline Pete W.

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #32 on: March 12, 2013, 05:58:24 PM »
Well I'm rooting for you awemason.

 SNIP

Me too.   Keep it graceful, keep one hand in your pocket and keep us informed, please.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #33 on: March 12, 2013, 05:58:44 PM »
Well I'm rooting for you awemason. If the controller doesn't pan out, though, didn't you mention a LinuxCNC box first post?

Thanks VTSTEAM. Yes LinuxCNC is the alternative, but I'm not sure it would cope with the amount of Input / Output there is on this beast. There are 128 inputs and 109 outputs not counting the specialist interfaces to the spindle and axis drives.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Swarfing

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #34 on: March 12, 2013, 07:12:38 PM »
If you have PLC controls in there i'm sure something using something like MODBUS would get working with linuxcnc?
Once in hole stop digging.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #35 on: March 13, 2013, 04:26:56 AM »
If you have PLC controls in there i'm sure something using something like MODBUS would get working with linuxcnc?

The PLC is a logical function of the controller rather than a separate item. The PLC has it's own ROM representing the logical ladder network, but the same processor that runs the G code runs the PLC. The processor runs on an interrupt timer chain, highest priority being given to reading fleeting sensors, next priority to axis and spindle events, and lowest priority to the man / machine interface.

If I don't manage to resurrect the original controller I may well have to install several PLCs, possibly linked using the TCP/IP variant of MODBUS to get the number of points read and processed in the timescale.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Tony_J

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #36 on: March 13, 2013, 08:54:46 AM »
Haven't spotted any mushroom clouds on the horizon yet. Did the brown smoke come out?

No brown smoke, but Andrew has taken to wearing his brown cords. Nuff said.

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #37 on: March 14, 2013, 08:52:49 AM »
Well a bit more progress today while I am waiting for spares to arrive. In the control cabinets there was a mess of wiring all pulled out of the trunking, and a single pole toggle switch dangling on the base uninsulated, unlabelled, and certainly unloved by me! Spent some time tracing it's wires. One end went to an axis overload sensor, the other to a terminal with nothing on it. So it was doing precisely nothing and is now removed. Also fixed the alert light that sits on top of the cabinet and lets you know when (presumably) a cycle is finished. Obviously been sheared off in some previous move. Quick turning job to make a new mounting, replace the very odd shaped squat 24 v 5 watt two pin bulb (amazingly I had a spare!). Also managed to get all the loose wiring and cable runs back into the right trunking - it least it now looks good even if it doesn't work  :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline DMIOM

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #38 on: March 14, 2013, 09:09:28 AM »
....- it least it now looks good even if it doesn't work  :lol:

a bit like the chap who sits on the train and seems to fill in the crossword with alarming speed - but when he gets off, someone looks at the discarded paper and sees that all the squares have been filled with rhubarb or supacalafragalisticexpialadocious !

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #39 on: March 14, 2013, 09:37:40 AM »
The first steps lead eventually to the last steps to completion for any project. It feels good to bring order out of what is supposed to be defunct. And determining and organizing wiring is essential on something of this complexity. I think you wanted a big challenge, and I think you're up to it.

This is exactly what being a mad modder is all about.  :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sDubB0-REg

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #40 on: March 15, 2013, 06:21:19 AM »
Still awaiting spares so a bit of photographic documentation:

First the cleaning up, then the tidying up of wiring
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #41 on: March 15, 2013, 06:26:21 AM »
Next I need to work out what this little board does. It is labelled 'UMSHALTUNG' which I think means switchover or changeover which would make sense as it seems to take in the 1024 and 90000 point spindle encoders and route them to the CNC controller and the AC servo drives - if you look carefully at the cabinet photos, there are two of the little beasts, and they don't seem to feature in the wiring diagrams.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline mattinker

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #42 on: March 15, 2013, 07:32:35 AM »
Next I need to work out what this little board does. It is labelled 'UMSHALTUNG' which I think means switchover or changeover which would make sense as it seems to take in the 1024 and 90000 point spindle encoders and route them to the CNC controller and the AC servo drives - if you look carefully at the cabinet photos, there are two of the little beasts, and they don't seem to feature in the wiring diagrams.

Ausgang = Exit (ouitput)
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Regards, Matthew

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #43 on: March 15, 2013, 08:19:28 AM »
Thanks Matthew.

I'd rather assumed the orange two pin connector was power coming in, but assuming it's powered down the 'Honda' connectors from either the NC controller or AC servo then probably it in fact drives the little opto coupler to its left. The other chips are data selectors and line driver receivers. So I reckon probably it just acts as a multi-pole switch routing one or other of the encoders as required. I know that when the main spindle is acting as a 'C' axis it uses the 90000 line encoder and a lower powered (2HP) servo motor, and when used as a conventional turning spindle it uses the 1024 line encoder and the 18.5 KW motor.

Andrew
« Last Edit: March 15, 2013, 12:21:21 PM by awemawson »
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline sparky961

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #44 on: March 15, 2013, 10:12:42 AM »
Enjoying this thread so far, thanks.  Keep up the progress reports!

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #45 on: March 15, 2013, 12:11:28 PM »
Thanks for the encouragement Sparky.

I did a bit more unnecessary tarting up this afternoon as the electronics hasn't arrived yet. If you look at the following picture there is rubber edging trim around a drop down door and the horizontal / vertical panel in front of the swarf conveyor. It had rotted and gone all sticky with oil, and I was able to get identical stuff (3 different profiles used there) from http://www.woolies-trim.co.uk/

Amazingly fast and helpful service as well.

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline dsquire

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #46 on: March 15, 2013, 05:09:35 PM »
Andrew

I have been following along since you first posted this. It is nice to see that you have such a positive attitude about the whole process. By checking it out and cleaning it up as you have been will help you to understand the operation of the beast and will pay big dividends down the road when trouble shooting problems. Thanks for sharing this project with us.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline dsquire

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #47 on: March 15, 2013, 05:39:17 PM »
Andrew

One other thing that I want to point out to you and hopefully others may notice. IMHO the size that you use (640 x 480) for your photo's is close to perfect. It makes it very easy to click the photo and view it without haveing to scroll all over the screen just to see it. This is a good example for other members (both old and new) to follow that are having problems with photos.

ANDREW

If anyone needs help with photos etc. get in touch with me here, PM or email and I'll do what I can to help you out.

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

Offline awemawson

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #48 on: March 15, 2013, 05:55:47 PM »
Well thankie kindly sir!

When I first posted here I made the mistake of posting oversize, and had to ask the mods to re-size - infact I think it was you who did it.

I know how irritating it is to have to scroll all over the place, and if you have several photos that are too large, on some browsers the scroll bar is way down the posting and off screen!
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline dsquire

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Re: Oh Blimey I bought a CNC Lathe !!!!
« Reply #49 on: March 15, 2013, 06:03:26 PM »
Andrew

Thank you for the nice comments. Glad to help when we can.  :D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best