Author Topic: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)  (Read 14456 times)

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« on: August 25, 2013, 04:53:34 PM »
Just thought I would show some pictures of my workshop.  I have moved house in the last few months and so after a lot of faffing it is just about usable.

Cromwell and Harrison lathes and ajax drill



Victoria and AEW mills, herbert high speed drill and a chinese band saw


shaper


surface plate


grinding and welding area


assembly area


clean and electronics bench and CNC centec mill

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #1 on: August 25, 2013, 05:06:24 PM »
Now the workshop is up and running I can carry on with my tool and cutter grinding restoration project

the vertical way was very worn so I lapped in parallel to 0.005mm along its length.  Pre lapping errors:



aligning the base using a precision level:


scraping ways flat and parallel


machining top of the table


base complete


scraping bottom of table:


measuring x ways


Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #2 on: August 25, 2013, 05:08:19 PM »
measured results

showing over 0.5mm wear!

Machining ways

Offline awemawson

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #3 on: August 26, 2013, 02:20:42 AM »
I love it! 1 2 3 blocks AND a gardening fork in the same shot.   :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #4 on: August 26, 2013, 03:13:56 AM »
That is British sheds for you!
The oven was in there for a few weeks, although not working

Offline Meldonmech

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #5 on: August 26, 2013, 06:32:10 AM »
Hi Andrew
                     Nice feeling to be functional again after moving house, fine  machine shop you have there.
                         
                     Good luck with Grinder Project          Cheers David

Offline angus

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #6 on: August 26, 2013, 04:31:16 PM »
the ajax drill looks similar to mine.... how many speed ?

mines 5 speed, and a bit on the fast side..... wonder if they ever did a variant with a center idler pully

Offline micktoon

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #7 on: August 26, 2013, 05:35:53 PM »
Hi Andrew , thanks for posting , looks like you have a really nice shop and some good old machines  :thumbup: , not to mention doing some nice restoration work too , looking forward to seeing more .
  Cheers Mick.

Offline vtsteam

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #8 on: August 26, 2013, 08:16:46 PM »
Wow, admirable shop and work!  :thumbup: :clap:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #9 on: August 27, 2013, 01:27:29 PM »
The ajax drill is a b 16l, 5 speed, min 380 and max 2700. It is a bit fast for large drilling but I tend to do that in the mill (aew goes down to 25 rpm).  The lowest speed on the Herbert drill is about 3000 so I usually use that for v small precision drilling.  Easy to smoke even modest sized drills with it but it is very perpendicular with the table and more rigid than the ajax.

Offline tekfab

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #10 on: August 27, 2013, 02:23:32 PM »
 "English" ?   Better of with good old accurately engineered  GERMAN  machinery !   :clap:

Mike

Offline awemawson

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #11 on: August 27, 2013, 04:11:46 PM »
:wack: Fighting talk  :wack:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #12 on: August 28, 2013, 02:08:48 PM »
German? If you are going to have to use foreign tools you might as well go all the way and use swiss :wack: :)

The Cromwell lathe I have has tenths verniers on all the dials.  I am yet to see another lathe, German or Swiss with that, although in the last 50 years it may have lost some of its original accuracy!

http://www.lathes.co.uk/cromwell/index.html

Offline tekfab

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #13 on: August 28, 2013, 03:35:32 PM »
German? If you are going to have to use foreign tools you might as well go all the way and use swiss :wack: :)

The Cromwell lathe I have has tenths verniers on all the dials.  I am yet to see another lathe, German or Swiss with that, although in the last 50 years it may have lost some of its original accuracy!

Ah well if you paid attention you would have noticed most Toolroom quality lathes, and milling machines, have dials graduated in tenths.   :)   In fact my own Maho SK250 (1950's vintage) mill does in fact have graduated dials enabling readings of 0.0001" on all 3 axis.

Mike
« Last Edit: August 28, 2013, 06:47:59 PM by tekfab »

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #14 on: August 29, 2013, 07:41:17 AM »
good point. Well made.

Offline malbenbut

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #15 on: December 19, 2013, 12:32:31 PM »
Hello Andrew I have A AEW mill like yours but with a swivelling table however the horizontal head is quite noisy, In was wondering if you've ever had to dismantled yours and if so was it was very difficult?
MBB

Offline NeoTech

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #16 on: December 19, 2013, 02:08:52 PM »
One pictures saids scraping the ways, and you have some sort of slitted piece of tube, two blocks, rod and a dial indicator.. gotta ask how does measuring with that go about..  I have a moment of - "never seen that before."
Machinery: Optimum D320x920, Optimum BF20L, Aciera F3. -- I have not failed. I've just found 10,000 ways that won't work. http://www.roughedge.se/blogg/

Offline AussieJimG

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #17 on: December 19, 2013, 05:04:49 PM »
Good move to take lots of phots while it is clean and tidy.

Jim

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #18 on: December 21, 2013, 11:23:46 AM »
Hello Andrew I have A AEW mill like yours but with a swivelling table however the horizontal head is quite noisy, In was wondering if you've ever had to dismantled yours and if so was it was very difficult?
MBB
Sorry I have had no need to dismantle the horizontal spindle.  The horizontal spindle on these machines are generally daily loud.  There are a lot of gears in the various gearboxes.  It may help if you change the gearbox oil.  I use 32 hydraulic oil which is equivalent of the oil stated on the machine.

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #19 on: December 21, 2013, 11:35:57 AM »
One pictures saids scraping the ways, and you have some sort of slitted piece of tube, two blocks, rod and a dial indicator.. gotta ask how does measuring with that go about..  I have a moment of - "never seen that before."
I had already scraped the top of the dovetail so the next step was to ensure the other faces of the dovetail were parallel.  The tool I knocked up references two points on the top and side of one dovetail and one point on the top of the other.  The indicator measures the face that will have to be scraped parallel.  Two points are required on the top and side of one dovetail to ensure the tool does not crab.  The tube is a convenient way to do this but it could be done other ways.

 When I get back to my laptop I will have to post the progress on the project.  I have completed the scraping.

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #20 on: December 21, 2013, 11:39:54 AM »
Good move to take lots of phots while it is clean and tidy.

Jim
It does not take long for it to get messy!

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #21 on: January 03, 2014, 05:38:19 PM »
I have finally got around to posting some more of the cutter grinder restoration.

V way machined.  Note custom spacers to allow the depth of cut to be taken with the cutter I had:


I produced a straight edge from a section of old cast iron motor mount:


stress relieved in the wood fire overnight:





Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #22 on: January 03, 2014, 05:42:08 PM »
straight edge machining (before stress relief):


Final machining after heat treat:


Scraped flat and square


Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #23 on: January 03, 2014, 05:53:13 PM »
swiveling table top was scraped to mating part:


x ways were scraped parallel to the table top using the new straight edge as a reference.  The picture shows a guage block to average out the scraping marks to get a more consistent reading:


The piece with the male v way was scraped to the x ways (no pics of this) and the alignment was corrected approximately my checking with an indicator on the surface plate.

The underside of this part that slides on the knee of the machine were then scraped to the top of the levelled knee.  the level was used for final alignment:


Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #24 on: January 03, 2014, 05:59:18 PM »
The grinding head spindle being replaced and the motor internal insulated wiring and the terminal box replaced.  The internal insulation was falling off the wires!






Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #25 on: January 03, 2014, 06:06:30 PM »
the machine wiring was all ditched and replaced with a modern starter unit and wiring that did not have cotton braid!.  I will probably put the cable up to the head in flexible conduit eventually:



Machine in its final resting place - the grinding and welding corner


Still needs a paint and I am looking into replacing the gears for the table feed as they are shot and means that the table feed is not as smooth as I would like.  I will update as I get these little bits sorted.

Offline philf

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #26 on: January 04, 2014, 05:00:19 AM »
Very nice Andrew - well done and well documented restoration.

I have the Union equivalent which I suspect needs the same treatment. The work table isn't parallel to the slide.

The drive pinion on mine looks as though it's been filed and the drive feels very rough.

Your final picture shows I think a magnetic chuck on the table. Can your grinding wheel cover the whole chuck? Mine has a different grinding spindle (double ended and with a seperate motor) to what I think was fitted originally and I can't cover the width of the table.

Cheers.

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #27 on: January 04, 2014, 10:30:38 AM »
phil, The mag chuck is not original it was a flea bay purchase (20) and is a eclipse model (something like ak47 but I will have to go and check!).  It covers the length easily but only just covers the width.  I have knocked up a dresser this morning and have had a go at surface grinding.  The results are ok except that if you look in the right light there are fine ripples on the surface.  I will post some pics in a bit on the main forum.

Some of this is due to the worn pinion but some is also probably due to me not having the right wheel etc.  I guess I cant expect to much from what is just a tool and cutter grinder.

Do you know what size the pinions are?  My measurements point to 14dp but I am not 100% sure.

Offline philf

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #28 on: January 04, 2014, 12:57:16 PM »
Do you know what size the pinions are?  My measurements point to 14dp but I am not 100% sure.

Andrew,

I just measured the rack with a steel rule and mine works out to 16DP (give or take a midges). I don't know the reasoning behind using a straight spur gear on an rack with angled teeth. Maybe it has some of the effect of a helical rack but there must be a lot of sliding involved which is maybe why the pinion wears out.

I got mine to run a bit smoother by shimming out the rack to give better engagement with the pinion.

Cheers.

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #29 on: January 04, 2014, 04:33:19 PM »
Thanks.  I will recheck my measurements.  Mine could well be different anyway.  I am hoping that I can use standard parts from hpc gears, with the bores and widths modified.  I don't have any change wheels for my dividing head for helical gears, its they look like a pain to make!

Offline philf

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #30 on: January 04, 2014, 04:42:01 PM »
Thanks.  I will recheck my measurements.  Mine could well be different anyway.  I am hoping that I can use standard parts from hpc gears, with the bores and widths modified.  I don't have any change wheels for my dividing head for helical gears, its they look like a pain to make!

Andrew,

I think you'll find that the pinion is just a straight spur gear - it is on mine anyway. That's why I was questioning the arrangement of the angled teeth on the rack running with a straight cut gear.

If I can I'll try to get some measurements off the pinion but it is very crudely made.

I measured the pitch of the rack perpendicular to the teeth.

Phil.
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #31 on: January 04, 2014, 04:48:45 PM »
Mine has a 30 deg helix helical meshing with a spur pinion which meshes with the rach,.  Both the spur and the helical are shot

Offline philf

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #32 on: January 05, 2014, 12:27:24 PM »
Mine has a 30 deg helix helical meshing with a spur pinion which meshes with the rach,.  Both the spur and the helical are shot
Hi Andrew,

Yours must be quite different to mine. There are three spur gears between the handle and the pinion which mates with the rack. These are 24DP.







Phil.
« Last Edit: July 13, 2017, 01:57:07 PM by philf »
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #33 on: January 05, 2014, 03:31:25 PM »
Double checked the spur and rack gear def 14dp.  I have sent an enquiry into hpc gears.  Below is part of the enquirey showing the gear arrangement.



Here is a pic of my lash up dresser with an arceuro trade mounted diamond.  I will have to replace the long screw with a grub screw when I get one




Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #34 on: January 05, 2014, 03:35:51 PM »
These are some pictures of the finishes I am getting

mild steel and hss (sorry about the rubbish pics!)





generally ok but you can just make ot the slight ripples in the surface.

Offline philf

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #35 on: January 05, 2014, 04:14:00 PM »
Andrew,

I won't disagree with your assessment of the picture quality - the grinding looks pretty good to me.

A horizontal surface grinder usually (always?) has the grinding wheels mounted on an arbour with facility for balancing.

The wheel being out of balance is probably the cause of the slight ripple.

Your table drive arrangement is very different to my Union (I'm not sure it's a Union but it may be a clone - there are no markings that I can find.)

One job on my 'to do' list is to make a surface grinder and I was going to use a timing belt drive for the traverse.

Good luck with your HPC enquiry.

 :beer:

Phil.
 
Phil Fern
Location: Marple, Cheshire

Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #36 on: July 13, 2014, 04:24:19 PM »
Well I thought that it was time for an update on this saga.  I looked into the new gears and at what would work out at over 150 I decided to give it a miss.  I changed the wheel and finish improved to the point where if I took very fine final cuts the waviness was not perceivable.

Here is a picture of the finished machine:


I added a tenths indicator and fixings as well as bellows over the pillar and gave it a splash of paint:


I made a lathe tool bit holder, and endmill v block and a magnetic parallel as well as purchasing some commercial mag parallels (5!)






Offline Andrew Wildman

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Re: Any old iron (as long as it's British!)
« Reply #37 on: July 13, 2014, 04:26:51 PM »
all the attachments fit into the cubby below the machine (surface grinding stuff top shelf, tool grinding below)


Collection of wheels: