Which lathe for £600-800 ?

[raynerd]

Guys, if you had £600-800 on purchasing a new lathe (no tooling) what would you purchase?

I could make this more detailed by adding my reasons for being interested in swapping, but I'm curious what you would get with no other motive than having no lathe and the money available.

Looking forward to your replies!

£600-800 new or seconds hand - any suggestions as to second hand lathes have to be based on a realistic price!!!

Chris

[ParCan]

Hi

I just got a bloody good Myford for £720 on ebay. It really is hardly used.
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/111145741916

See my thread: http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8917.0.html for Piccies and more details.
Total cost to me to date including transport, The Gear Cover knob I broke, 1 Gibb Strip that was bent, More Vectra Oil, WD40 and other cleaning stuff is still under £900. The Transport cost me £50 for the Van, £100 in Fuel and £22 for the M6 Toll.

Others may say a Boxford or even a Colchester. The key thing is to buy on Condition (teaching egg sucking here no doubt !)

Or I have a worn but good ML7 here..... I have sorted the Top / Compund slide.
Make me an offer...
Piccies on the Cork Board: http://madmodder.net/index.php/topic,8945.0.html

[RossJarvis]

Guys, if you had £600-800 on purchasing a new lathe (no tooling) what would you purchase?

£600-800 new or seconds hand - any suggestions as to second hand lathes have to be based on a realistic price!!!

Chris

It's a bit of "how long is a piece of string".  For that price new, I'd think you'd only be looking at a baby lathe, 12" 300mm size.  So are you happy that's the size you want?  How much room do you have for it?  That might determine the size you can have.  I would start with the question of what you may want to make on it, including what you might want to do later.  What type of work would you want to do on it?  How much room have you got for it?  Personally, If I had enough room I'd get the biggest thing going on ebay or similar.  However you'd need to spend a lot of time trying to find something worth it without much fettling required.  Not rusty, all the bearings and seals etc ok.  If you want it quick with little hassle then buy new.

Oh yes, plan about 20,000% of purchase price on bits and bobs you'll need along the way

Hope that's a bit of help.

Ross

[NickG]

My harrison L5 was about £700 and is superb. I also like Boxfords, have just bought an ML7 too but that was more for sentimental reasons and to do a family member a favour taking it off their hands! Chinese machinery seems to have gone up a lot in price lately - when i got my harrison i was looking at the sieg c4 which had good capacity, variable speed with a powerful motor and a power cross feed for around the same £7-800 however now i think they are £1289 now So think only the mini lathe is in this budget at £645! I was glad i went for the 2nd hand machine at the time but with these new elevated prices i wouldn't even entertain the chinese
Jobby now - the only thing they have going
For them is that they are new. If the budget was a couple of grand think there is a decent ML7 size (ish) proxxon that could be good and also wabeco and david ceriani which look the part (not sure whether they are though!)

[NickG]

There are some 2nd hand bargains out there such as colchesters, smart and brown - getting into really heavy tool room quality lathes but the quality does tell.

[John Rudd]

I'll throw in my 2p.....

For the money we're talking I'd go for a Myford ML7 if its in good nick, Parcan got a really good deal if I'm honest, in fact it was a steal at that price and I'm wondering how his conscience is?
(at least Dick Turpin wore a mask on his robbery trips.... )

If you cant  get a decent Boxford/Harrison et -al , then I'd go for a Chester 9*20...( Biassed I know coz I have one..)

I would avoid the smaller lathes such as the Mini Lathe in various guises or the so called variable speed offerings from China...Weak links are the motors and speedos as you may have experienced....

[AdeV]

I'd be trying to get a Smart & Brown for that money, or a (large) Harrison. Or 2 Edgwicks (underrated IMHO, about the same size as a Harrison but more capable).

However, I happen to know that none of those would be any good to you, as none of them would fit through the "wriggle space" into your workshop...

[ParCan]

"Parcan got a really good deal if I'm honest, in fact it was a steal at that price and I'm wondering how his conscience is? "

You'll note the winning bid was £709. I only had £20 notes. I got to £700 and he said that'll do.
Not even I'm evil enough to say OK. I gave him the extra £20.

Still pretty much amounts to theft but my conscience is clear.

[raynerd]

Weak links are the motors and speedos as you may have experienced....

Indeed - email just sent your way!

OK - interesting replies. I will tell you a little more about why I ask then maybe your thoughts and suggestions will change.

I've been into hobby engineering for 4 years but was a slow learner and didn't really understand machining setup and accuracy at the start. I purchased a Clarke mini lathe which was great to get me going. I the got the boxford model a because it was a give away at £100. However, over the last year I've struggled.... The bed is worn, the power cross slide does not engage, the gear change isn't quite functioning correctly, I've 4 chucks of which all need their jaws grinding true. I just struggle to get it running correctly.

Last week I picked up my perfect condition X3 mill with glass scales and DRO. It has been like a dream. Jobs that took me hours on the small X2 that I never had running perfectly, are now a doddle to setup and do!!

With a family of 4, carvan, work etc... I want my time in engineering to be spent building things as that is what I get my enjoyment out of. The boxford is definitely worth something to someone as with more experience and time than I've got, you could get a lovely running machine. I just fancy selling it and making up the different with birthday money and getting a ready to run machine.

I don't now if everyone understands what I am saying but I just feel based n my experience with the lovely mill, a lathe running nicely now would be a great investment.

Problem is..I'd be sad to move down from the size of Boxford too much!

Chris

[ParCan]

Hi Chris

Deffo sounds like it's time to out the Boxford. It sounds rather to much hassle to me.
My old ML7 is also probably not for you for the very same reasons. You can get very good work out of it but it does take time to get it nice.

If the chucks were good it'd be worth erring towards Boxford again. Dismantling and cleaning the chucks may help...
If the scroll is worn then it's time to out those with the lathe.

The only reason for me being Myford Biased is because I have a lot of good (and some not so) Tooling for them.

[NickG]

https://www.emcomachinetools.co.uk/EnterShop/tabid/268/CategoryID/123/List/1/Level/a/productid/1252/Default.aspx?SortField=UnitCost+DESC%2cProductNumber

Bit little but nice quality, although they do have some short comings with the shape of the bed apparently. It was actually the larger MD65 that i was looking for but they call it the SU300 now and it's £1200 too! he EMCO compact 8 looks ok on this site although its effectively a 9x20 without the gearbox and above budget with the vat :-( Not sure whether emco do
Anything extra or just stick their name on it! I know a lot of people who have bought from warco and had good customer service. Their machines seem a little more nicely finished than some, as do axminster although probably just cosmetic.
Not many places in uk sell the 9x20 lathes now i don't think looks like amadeal do for about £800  But they are pretty rough and ready straight from china! Good that they have a belt drive but bad that the min speed is a out 100rpm.
Hmm, a lot to consider!

[NickG]

Quite surprised Chester are doing 9x20 on special offer for £720 inc vat - not bad by today's current prices.

[doubleboost]

I would be looking for a minter Boxford AUD
Or Myford super seven
Loads of bits on ebay for both lathes
Depends what you want to do with it
But I love my Boxford
John

[Fergus OMore]

Not many places in uk sell the 9x20 lathes now i don't think looks like amadeal do for about £800  But they are pretty rough and ready straight from china! Good that they have a belt drive but bad that the min speed is a out 100rpm.
Hmm, a lot to consider!

I had a 9180 which was the 920 or 918 but with a Myford type spindle. It came from Axminster  but there was no back up on spares. Chester was equally unobliging. I was replacing  the motor pulley but Miss Warren put one in the post- for free.

So let's pull the machine apart for the record. It has a set of very weak drive belts and an awkward lever system to do the changes. There's a plastic 80 tooth wheel Number 1 DP- to strip. The top slide is too short to a Number 2 Morse Taper and a desperately short tailstock poppet.

The lowest speed is quoted as 100 rpm. It isn't- it is 130 and screwcutting is interesting- if you like that sort of thing.

I got pissed off with the speeds etc and fitted a 3 phase motor and converter and when my scrap Myford materialised, I sold the 9180. Conclusion was that it was OK but it took a lot of patience with fiddly cog changes etc.

Perhaps it was some 13 years that I wrote a comment wanting to do a Martin Cleeve conversion on a scrap ML7.I'd done a mates ML7 as mentioned. Oddly, I still think that Cleeve- author of Screwcutting in the Lathe had it right.
He'd bought the ML7 or part of it new and added his bits made out of blocks of metal and with homemade bolts etc. He was made redundant- and made specialist nuts and bolts on it- for what he described as a tidy living.

Quite a story. I actually made quite a few of his bits over the years. He's worth a thought or two.

Norman

[garym]

<snip>....Last week I picked up my perfect condition X3 mill with glass scales and DRO. It has been like a dream. Jobs that took me hours on the small X2 that I never had running perfectly, are now a doddle to setup and do!!.....
<snip>

Chris

Hi Chris. Did you bother with the plinth for the X3 in the end? I put some pics of mine on your other thread but I don't think you've added any more posts to it.

I think I'm just beginning to see the limitations of my mini-lathe. I know they have a limited capacity but I've just machined the 3" flywheel for the Stuart S50 I'm making and it was a bit of a struggle. I'm not sure what use it is being able to swing 7" on it. Sounds like a used Boxford would suit you.

Gary

[raynerd]

Hi Chaps... thanks for the info and I`d appreciate any more thoughts and opinions.

I think I`m in a very similar position to you ParCan - the lathe can be restored to perfection but with time and money. It is actually a really nice lathe with screw cutting etc.. it either needs a beginner to buy it for cheap to learn on like I have OR someone with time to give it the TLC it needs to bring it perfectly true.

The truth is, at one point I couldn`t see any issues with it!! It is only as I`ve started to get more accurate that I want something with a bit more precision and it is going to take time and effort to get it running in such a way and I`ve just not got the time!

I do agree that second hand would be the way to go. The problem is, you need to know what you are looking for and I`d not be confident enough! If you were unlucky, you could end up buying something second hand with similar issues!

Don`t get me wrong, I know all lathes take some work in getting them setup - I just feel it`ll take a lot of effort in a lot of areas to get this one spot on and the truth is I`m looking for a quick fix to get me up and running.

<snip>....Last week I picked up my perfect condition X3 mill with glass scales and DRO. It has been like a dream. Jobs that took me hours on the small X2 that I never had running perfectly, are now a doddle to setup and do!!.....
<snip>

Chris

Hi Chris. Did you bother with the plinth for the X3 in the end? I put some pics of mine on your other thread but I don't think you've added any more posts to it.
Sounds like a used Boxford would suit you.

Gary

Gary - No, I must admit I`ve been in and out and not been on here much! It is 1:30am so I`ll take a good look at the thread tomorrow and send a reply.

All the best
Chris

[Fergus OMore]

I think I`m in a very similar position to you ParCan - the lathe can be restored to perfection but with time and money. It is actually a really nice lathe with screw cutting etc.. it either needs a beginner to buy it for cheap to learn on like I have OR someone with time to give it the TLC it needs to bring it perfectly true.

The truth is, at one point I couldn`t see any issues with it!! It is only as I`ve started to get more accurate that I want something with a bit more precision and it is going to take time and effort to get it running in such a way and I`ve just not got the time!

Chris

I feel that you are missing something. When I 'overhauled' the stated ML7 it cost 'half a tank of fuel' The guy that I was helping was-the local doctor and it was all done in a week. The accuracy was not all that great but half a thous at 6" projected wasn't bad.

Earlier, I'd read up what the late David Lammas had to say on when he restored an earlier Myford( possibly a ML2) in a week and he used a couple of scrap files and tempered them in the deep freeze. I suspect that he used a bit of plate glass instead of a surface plate. So in 'Lammas' terms I had it dead easy.

OK, I knew what I was doing. I'd done up a Pools Major earlier that seemed to have made every munition in two world wars but the top was (yet again Blancharded) by Lumsdens in Gateshead. I'd pulled rank a bit because we had the paintings done the chief draughtsman prior to WW2Your time prattling on the internet could have been more usefully spent doing up  a nice lathe. Must fly, never really painted my S7B but it works just the same.

Regards

N

[John Stevenson]

You need to ask yourself.
"Is my hobby restoring tools and am I competent enough to do this correctly or should I be doing something else ? "

Parcan was faced with the same situation just a week ago and he's up and running now.

[NickG]

Yeah it's a great point. As Chris said though. You need to know what you are looking for too. I prob got reasonably lucky with my harrison, with my myford the bed and bearings seem a bit worn but i bet it still gives better results than some new chinese efforts! Before you buy a cheap new lathe just bear in mind it might be worse than what you've got! Unless you can go and try it and make sure you're happy first.

[ParCan]

John: I think we all know that I got rather lucky....

There are good machines out there to be had, just keep looking.
Set yourself a price. My bid was pure speculation and I did not expect to win that auction.
If you can, go and see it before you commit.

A trot through ebay shows a lot of old and likely worn machines.

There is a Super 7 in Romford that could be worth looking at but will prolly go for over a K.
The ML7R http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/myford-lathe-ml7-/130977578993 is deffo worth a look.

not a lot else really 

[ieezitin]

Chris…

Lathes are simple machines. And fixes are really not very hard to do, there is a ton of information on the web regarding fixing and remedies to little imperfections as I know your aware of, but it is time consuming and maybe a little more expensive depending on how far you want to go.

There is allot to be said on buying a machine in excellent working condition, a turn-key second hand lathe would free your time up and give you a hassle free machining experience. That’s worth its weight in gold.

Now I look at it this way. I have around $25,000 of machinery and tooling in my hobby work shop all purchased over twenty years or so on the second hand market, some are excellent pieces while are some mediocre and some things are just plain shite but they all have one thing in common, there all worth as much today as when at the time I purchased them, and that’s still after all the use I have had from them. I call them assets.

A pound note is not what it appears to be, it’s worth is greatly affected by the market, I can tell you this it’s always being inflated,  your dream lathe is not affected like the good old quid!.

Spend a little more today, use it and then re-coop your value back tomorrow.

Hope this helps.

Anthony.

[ParCan]

Um - ignore that ML7 R.
Look closely.......

It's not complete. No lead Screw.
I'm guessing It once had the Gear Box. Not there.
Gear Covers are Grey, not green.

[John Rudd]

Yeah...
I had my doubts when I saw the mismatching colours....and so cheap....bells were ringing...

[Fergus OMore]

Nice- put it on my drive. Give me a week. A day to collect a new lead screw, a day to find better bits in my scrap and unearth my banjo and some cogs. A couple of days to fit and fiddle. And the rest of my time to slobber and drool-- as old geysers do.

Let's see what it goes for.

[Jonny]

The only lathes I would have here will be Harrison or Colchester newer 65 onwards lathes, no need to faff about with change wheels just dial in the pitch imperial or metric.
You can do small stuff on larger lathes you cant do larger stuff on small lathes.
Picked up an M300 three years ago £850, everything good and its British so will last a lot longer.
Previous Harrison 140 knocked me £300 and scrapped it for £200 fully tooled with coolant 1ph.

Bide your time forget ebay unless can view the dumping ground first, many go for more than the new price at the time.
Boxfords nice size so are Bantams new and old, take someone that knows what to look for you wont look back and wonder why people rave about ML7's at more cost!

[vtsteam]

Reading this topic got me curious about what was available on Ebay here for lathes. Maybe I should consider moving to something heavier than my Sears/Atlas 12" x 42".

I was apalled -- I saw almost no lathes in the price range I'd bought my present lathe in a few years ago. There were just lathe parts. I saw at least a half dozen used steady rests for prices between $495 and $695. Just steady rests! I just bought a similar one to those in the ads for my lathe at the Bernardston engine meet a few months ago for $30.

Ebay here has gone berserk.   

[Fergus OMore]

This big lathe v small lathe thing will continue to continue- ad nauseum.
One answer to why 'we' or 'wee'( that old generation) have small lathes is because we are restricted in space because of all sorts of reasons. I cannot imagine the outcry if I arrived in my neck of the woods with a bloody big mill and equally big lathe. I've already got a titchy little Unimat clone thing to replace my Myford.- when the time comes. Let us take this a step further. The Unimat thing came from a bloke that 'went into a care home'.

Looking at the thing coldly and rationally, about one in four of you blokes will be limping about with a bag of pink urine in one hand. Another set will be limping around with a variety of ball and socket joints whilst another will be queuing up to have a little Stent. Not the tool and cutter grinder but the one my son in law does!
At least, I don't have any problems in 'spending my children's inheritance', he's doing quite well- thank you.

There's a whopping Beemer on the drive with a big VW little people carrier alongside and the scaffolding up for a £50K extension to keep up with the rest of his peers. Back to Liberal Peers?

I have a point- the grim reaper always wins.
Enjoy?

[raynerd]

Looking at the thing coldly and rationally, about one in four of you blokes will be limping about with a bag of pink urine in one hand. Another set will be limping around with a variety of ball and socket joints whilst another will be queuing up to have a little Stent

Hope not too soon, I'm only 29.

I have a point- the grim reaper always wins.
Enjoy?

If you did have a point, I am still none the wiser!!

[John Stevenson]

At least he never mentioned that George Thomas, Sparey, Geometer etc, all guys who knew how to use a lathe, not talk about it, are dead.

[AdeV]

I know for a fact that having a big lathe is, for me, better than having a small one. I've turned all kinds of stuff in mine that a small lathe would have been totally incapable of.

However.... the "you can always do small work in a big lathe" doesn't always hold true.... mine only goes 670rpm, which is more than enough when you've got a foot-diameter lump of steel on it... but if you're trying to turn a 2mm aluminium shaft? Forget it, the tool just bends the metal out of the way.

I reckon I could use something about the size of a Boxford - or maybe even smaller - for those occasional fiddly little tasks where 3000rpm would actually come in handy...

[S. Heslop]

Ebay here has gone berserk.   

I was keeping an eye on oxford oil filled welders for a long while on ebay, hoping to find one for sale up north. I thought it was pretty funny watching the prices slowly hike from the usual £30 up to £200 at one point. I suppose that occasionally an optimistic person seeing them selling for £30 would try get away with £40, and then once others see that £40 it becomes the new standard price. Then the same again till they're priced so riddiculously they stop selling, and the prices start to come back down again.

I saw the same thing when looking for an old computer too so I wouldn't be surprised if this happens for most items on ebay.

I'm not really big on ebay to be honest, it seems to encourage people to be alot sneakier and greedier than in life.

[tekfab]

Are you still looking for an Oxford ?

Mike

[S. Heslop]

I'm not sure to be honest. Rob said he might be selling an inverter for cheap soon so I stopped regularly checking ebay.

The real problem with the oxford welders is that they weigh so much it'd cost a fortune in shipping, so i'd need to buy one somewhere locally to collect.

[DMIOM]

Chris,

I've no idea how suitable it might be for you, but I've just noticed a Boxford CUD with QCTP listed yesterday on John's homeworkshop site.

Dave

[NickG]

The only lathes I would have here will be Harrison or Colchester newer 65 onwards lathes, no need to faff about with change wheels just dial in the pitch imperial or metric.
You can do small stuff on larger lathes you cant do larger stuff on small lathes.
Picked up an M300 three years ago £850, everything good and its British so will last a lot longer.
Previous Harrison 140 knocked me £300 and scrapped it for £200 fully tooled with coolant 1ph.

Bide your time forget ebay unless can view the dumping ground first, many go for more than the new price at the time.
Boxfords nice size so are Bantams new and old, take someone that knows what to look for you wont look back and wonder why people rave about ML7's at more cost!

Got to agree with this, although i did get mine via ebay so it can be done. 
Mine only goes to 720 rpm but i rarely use it that fast - prob can't do 2mm aluminium but can def do 2mm brass and steel. Besides, Chris has a cowells for that sort of thing, by the sound of it you can't beat those for a small lathe.

[AdeV]

Hmm, I use 670rpm all the time. Carved .375" x 5" off a 1" bar of EN8 this evening, 3 bites + a finishing cut, gotta love a strong lathe... The chips were nearly black on one side, you could really smell the sulpher in the oil working. The only trouble, in fact, with going that fast is watching out for work hardening...

I was keeping an eye on oxford oil filled welders for a long while on ebay, hoping to find one for sale up north.

A welder mate of mine has a big oil-filled arc welder he never uses, he'd almost certainly part for it for scrap money. Based in Wallasey (CH44) if that's any use to you. It'll be a hulking great 3-phase thing, I have no idea what make, or model, can get some details if you're interested.

[S. Heslop]

A welder mate of mine has a big oil-filled arc welder he never uses, he'd almost certainly part for it for scrap money. Based in Wallasey (CH44) if that's any use to you. It'll be a hulking great 3-phase thing, I have no idea what make, or model, can get some details if you're interested.

Thanks for the offer but Liverpool is a bit out of the way for me. I'm up in Gateshead.

What makes things difficult is that I don't have and cant afford a car, so i'm relying on lifts from friends and family.

[vtsteam]

Steve, that's admirable -- a welder before a car! 

[ParCan]

Chris

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/myford-ML7-lathe-/141047686596
looks like it could be well worth a punt.
It's an Ml7 so nothing special but it looks like it has a ton of stuff with it, maybe even the Myford dividing head.
Also looks very clean and the bed looks very good.
Worth ~ £500 Max so pull out before then unless you see it and it is as good as it looks to be.

[Swarfing]

Chris a neighbor of mine quizzed me a couple of months ago on what to look for on a second hand lathe. We talked a while and spent some time trawling the bay. He had £500 budget and was going to stick with it but nothing came up. He had a day off work and decided to go knock the doors of all the engineering places local. A couple had lathes they wanted to get rid of but to up market and out of his price range. he left his number though wherever he went. A few days later a chap rang him and barked down the phone "Bring your £500 quid round i have something for you", when he asked what it was the guy replied "Just get your arse round here or it's going in the bin". He drove round and the guy had an all singing all dancing job (Shorty mastiff i believe) and a stack of chucks and tools. He even loaded it and dropped it off to his garage. It turns out the guy had a change around in the shop and decided to get rid of their back up lathe that just never got any use as they are mostly CNC.

What i'm trying to say is go knock some doors and you maybe just as lucky? They can only say no or point you to one that's for sale. There are still lots of shops around using gear that is not up to todays safety standards butt fine for hobby use.

PS

He picks up his Mill (85 BP) next week from the same guy for £50 as he sick and tired seeing it in the way :-)

[raynerd]

lol,, problem is that I`m never that guy who hits it lucky!!!
Good point... is worth a try!

Chris

[dsquire]

lol,, problem is that I`m never that guy who hits it lucky!!!
Good point... is worth a try!

Chris

Chris

Ask the question even though you feel the answer will be "NO". You are giving him the opportunity to say "YES". Sometimes you will be pleasantly surprised. 

Cheers 

Don

 

[raynerd]

lol,, problem is that I`m never that guy who hits it lucky!!!
Good point... is worth a try!

Chris

Chris

Ask the question even though you feel the answer will be "NO". You are giving him the opportunity to say "YES". Sometimes you will be pleasantly surprised. 

Cheers 

Don

True - as the saying goes, "if you don`t ask, you don`t get"

Chris

[S. Heslop]

shy bairns get nowt

[garym]

lol,, problem is that I`m never that guy who hits it lucky!!!..........

Chris

Are you sure you should be building an arcade game, Chris?   

Gary