Author Topic: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder  (Read 18738 times)

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« on: August 31, 2013, 01:25:37 PM »
Been looking to replace my Gabro BF1000 folder with something more heavy duty - the Gabro is very versatile, quite light to move around but only bends 1 metre wide.

This rather tatty Edwards Box Pan folder followed me home today - by 'eck it's a heavy beast !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #1 on: August 31, 2013, 01:32:52 PM »
It is actually better than it looks in the photographs. Very nice heavy piece of English iron from a good maker. Complete except for the handles that raise the bit that does the folding, but they are just simple bolt on bars.

It works as it is, but I would like to get my hands on any literature, hand books, adjustment details etc if anyone has any as although most of it is obvious, the front pivoted swinging bit seems to have two ways of setting its height.

No doubt I'm going to end up dismantling, stripping to bare metal and repainting, as it's just too tatty to stay permanently in my workshop - it needs to buck it's ideas up, smarten up and behave ! (Which is why I'm posting it in this section of the forum!)
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5419
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
    • www. sredmond.com
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #2 on: August 31, 2013, 02:05:49 PM »
Yes, Andrew, but what condition are the circuit boards in?    :)
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #3 on: August 31, 2013, 02:09:42 PM »
Yes, Andrew, but what condition are the circuit boards in?    :)

I can confirm that EVERY pcb installed in this folder works  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #4 on: September 01, 2013, 06:11:08 AM »
So, Sunday morning and a bit of time to assess just what I've got here: Close examination shows all castings are intact, the only missing bits being the handles mentioned earlier that raise the 'apron', and also I now see, a restraint bar that limits the travel of the apron so that you can do repeatable folds of the same angle. It's only a threaded bar with an adjuster so I imagine I can make one easily enough.

Apart from the grotty paint work, there is just one leg (front left) that has obviously taken a knock in the past and has bent 'under' the machine a bit. This blow also has bent the flange on the side of the leg. Material is 1/8" plate so you don't just bend it back with your fingers!

At the moment I'm thinking of blasting it back to bare metal without dismantling - not a way I'd normally do things but the bits of this folder are inordinately heavy to manoeuvre so I think it is the pragmatic way forward. It will mean some very careful cleaning off of the blasting grit round the adjustments. The various aluminium labels will come off easily apart from the 'pointers' which seem to be threaded over the shafts.

So here are the issues:

a/ Bent Leg
b/ Bent Flange
c/ Missing restraint bar
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #5 on: September 01, 2013, 06:15:13 AM »
I decided that the way forwards was to use my hydraulic 'body kit' bought decades ago at a car boot sale for 10. It's got me out of lots of trouble over the years :clap:

So first the leg. Measurement showed that it was actually only 1/2" out of plumb. Looked much more. I put chalk marks against each front leg so I could see how much I'd moved things, then set up a jury rig of cribbing timber and the hydraulic jack
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #6 on: September 01, 2013, 06:18:50 AM »
Now when jacking out things like this they always will tend to relax back in the reverse direction, so you 'over jack' - but how much over? Well my plan was to spread the legs by 1" then whilst it was spread try and straighten the flange that would tend to reduce the spring back.

I'd hoped a second Carver clamp on the bend against a heavy bar would do the job
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #7 on: September 01, 2013, 06:19:59 AM »
Absolutely no chance! So I brought in the heavy artillery - the floating vice  :bugeye:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #8 on: September 01, 2013, 06:21:47 AM »
Remember this is 1/8" plate so no knocking it back with a planishing hammer and dolly !

I don't think it went too badly really
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #9 on: September 01, 2013, 06:28:05 AM »
So the proof of the pudding is in the eating - how far has the leg moved, has the other leg moved, and does the bent one look upright:

Well certainly the right hand leg is where it started, the left hand one is the intended 1/2" further left, and the flange is straight(ish) - does it look upright - well yes I think it does - there's a bit of a belly in the side plate that I may knock out with a sledge hammer when the noise is a bit more socially acceptable but I'm reasonably happy with the result so far
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #10 on: September 01, 2013, 12:08:20 PM »
It also turned out that the bottom flange of the rear panel had been bent. Sorry no photos. This one was an easy fix as it was only held on by four bolts and could be hammered on my thick steel topped welding bench. I reckon someone in the past has moved the machine with chains under this panel and that's how it got bent.

Interestingly the four bolt holes lined up exactly, so that bent leg must be in about the right place.

Grit blasting planned for Monday as the weather forecast is good - paints on order for Tuesday delivery but I've enough primer for a light coat to stop flash rusting when the blasting is done.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #11 on: September 01, 2013, 02:32:10 PM »
OK this evening I've removed the 'teeth' ie the box forming bits as they will be de-rusted with citric acid and it leaves the machine ready for blasting tomorrow
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #12 on: September 02, 2013, 12:08:23 PM »
So the day starts by setting up the folder in the rear farm yard ready for blasting along with all the paraphernalia:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #13 on: September 02, 2013, 12:12:00 PM »
Can't start blasting until our holiday cottage guests check out at 10am - or they should have  :bang:

OK 10:15 I'm starting anyway - a long day in prospect and I need to start - they'll just have to put up with the noise, they should have gone by now  :palm:

Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #14 on: September 02, 2013, 12:14:09 PM »
OK the sun is so bright and the angle is such there is no way I can do the back and see what I'm doing. Climb out of the blasting gear, get the fork lift truck and turn it round.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #15 on: September 02, 2013, 12:16:32 PM »
OK that's much better - can see what I'm doing. Grab some more sacks of blasting grit while I'm out of the safety gear - restart the compressor and off we go again
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #16 on: September 02, 2013, 12:23:59 PM »
In the end it took four solid hours of blasting and five bags of grit to get to this stage. Worse bit was rolling on the floor sticking my head inside the folder and blasting upwards. The blasting helmet is intended to sit by gravity in the right place, but it assumes you are standing at the time. Suddenly the window no longer points where it was - or it knocks your glasses off, and the only way to put them back is to remove the helmet.

Still ready to move the folder into the 'paint shop' - ok the barn loading dock !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #17 on: September 02, 2013, 12:34:34 PM »
Considering the state it was in I don't think it's turned out too badly. It would have been much better to totally dismantle it and do each bit separately, but as I said previously the bits are inordinately heavy, and anyway life's too short.

So it's now had a light 'first primer' coat. I'll probably give it two more light primer coats, then a couple of top coats.

By blasting you can tell what colours it's been over the ages. Seems it started life a light 'Duck Egg' blue so I reckon it dates from the mid 1960's. It's going to end up 'Iron Grey' RAL 7011
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5419
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
    • www. sredmond.com
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #18 on: September 02, 2013, 02:15:51 PM »
Looking good! I like to see machinery being made whole and functional again and painted, too. I appreciate the form of what we once had and did.

It's a great feeling to make it work and stand anew.  :thumbup:

 :beer:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #19 on: September 02, 2013, 02:43:32 PM »
Steve,

I was thinking of you when I was blasting the four weights that counterbalance the arms on this folder! As I blasted away I was blasting away loads of filler that was covering up blow holes in the castings ! The main body castings are good and sound, but at least two of the counterweights have some nice holes that would keep you and Ironman tearing your hair out.

Also one of the counterweights on the hold down levers was mounted backwards - a previous re-builder got it wrong I reckon !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Pete W.

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 811
  • Country: gb
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #20 on: September 02, 2013, 03:52:50 PM »
Hi there, Andrew,

Steve,

SNIP

Also one of the counterweights on the hold down levers was mounted backwards - a previous re-builder got it wrong I reckon !

Slightly  :offtopic: 

Some years ago, one department of my then employers down-sized a drawing office and disposed of a few drawing boards and stands.  The company had a very civilised system through which employees could legally acquire redundant equipment and so one of these boards and stands duly arrived, in pieces, in my 'study' (actually the half bedroom of our 2 bedroom house.)  I think the maker of the stand was 'Allbrit', it was mostly cast iron with a series of levers to allow the actual drawing board to be adjusted in both tilt and height, controlled by a foot-pedal.

I put all the various parts together but, not having seen the stand before it was dismantled, I fitted the two very large cast iron counter-weights the wrong way round.  When I tried operating the foot pedal, the board moved into the flat & level position and shot upwards at an alarming rate.  The front edge of the board missed my chin by a couple of millimetres!  Phew!!!
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest design change-note!

Offline vtsteam

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 5419
  • Country: us
  • Republic of Vermont
    • www. sredmond.com
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #21 on: September 02, 2013, 08:36:05 PM »
Steve,

I was thinking of you when I was blasting the four weights that counterbalance the arms on this folder! As I blasted away I was blasting away loads of filler that was covering up blow holes in the castings ! The main body castings are good and sound, but at least two of the counterweights have some nice holes that would keep you and Ironman tearing your hair out.

Also one of the counterweights on the hold down levers was mounted backwards - a previous re-builder got it wrong I reckon !

Haha!!  :lol: good to know blowholes will always remind people of my casting efforts!

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #22 on: September 03, 2013, 04:22:53 AM »
Time to start de-rusting the 'fingers' or 'teeth' that do the box pan hold down job.

There is a considerable weight of them - I decided to use a small plastic cattle trough that I bought for a similar purpose to de-rust bits of my 'Dominion Universal Woodworker' (16" Planer / thicknesser with 20" rip saw and pull over saw) that I rebuilt early last year

The bits are all rather 'pointy' for a plastic tank so I sat them on wooden battens - this also lets the fluid get at the undersides.
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #23 on: September 03, 2013, 04:32:33 AM »
In an ideal world I would have de-greased the bits - they weren't actually too oily as it's sat in a cattle byre for many years with straw blowing around. I decided to put a good few squirts of Fairy Liquid in the mix to lower the surface tension. No doubt I'll have to give them all a good scrub with a nylon 'sink brush'

The good thing about Citric Acid is that you can put your hands in it without harm - they will all need removing, scrubbing and re-stacking in a different order so the bits currently touch can be treated. You can also pour the citric acid down the sink with impunity - after all it's only lemon juice!

I included a couple of pictures of the Dominion Universal Woodworker that I referred to. It has proved really useful in our recent house refurbishment - amusing to see it placed where the Traub lathe now sits, that's the end of that 'project space'
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline awemawson

  • Global Moderator
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 7064
  • Country: gb
  • East Sussex, UK
Re: FJ Edwards 4ft x 14G Box Pan Folder
« Reply #24 on: September 03, 2013, 07:30:57 AM »
I decided to add a bar across the front joining left and right legs. Not only would this stop the tendency for the legs to fold when moving the machine, but also allow me to slip a pallet truck under it for local moving in the workshop if I mounted it at the same height as the rear folded panel.

I did consider that maybe there was a good reason for there not being a front bar - access perhaps. The bar has 5 1/2" clearance from the floor so adequate room for toes to go under if working close. I did however decide to bolt it on rather than weld, just in case there is a reason I haven't thought of for not having a bar !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex