Author Topic: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox  (Read 21732 times)

Offline RossJarvis

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How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« on: October 03, 2013, 10:56:15 AM »
Well then, I thought you might be interested in my further attempts at backyard chipentry.  Even if you’re not I’m still going to start posting about it anyway.  Having got a couple of Japanese saws I thought I’d look up my Japanese tool book again.  In there, the author mentions the traditional Japanese Carpenter’s tool-box, which seems very basic and simple and functional.  “Hey hey” says I, “even I could make that, shouldn’t be too difficult!”.  How wrong could I possibly be?  Scouting around t’internet there’s a good few how to do these and probably a few on UKWorkshop too.  However this is different, this is a “how not to build a Japanese(ish) tool box!”.

So then, I found a passing friend going to B&Q, cadged a lift and got some 12” by 1750mm boards;



…got round to finishing some low Japanese saw stools I’d started;



and ventured once more into the “workshop”;



I had bought 3 boards, having “ahem” carefully worked out how many I might need to do the job from my immaculate plans;



First thing was to work out how long to make it, my initial idea was to make it as wide and as high as a board and long enough for the longest tool to fit in.  As this is going to be my longest saw, I stuck a saw on the board at the end at an angle;




The front? of the saw is where the end of the inside of the box will be and there’ll be a bit of board across the top end about 3 inches wide, so I added 3” onto the end of the handle and rounded it up to a nice round number, this’ll be 30” long.  Next I marked square across the board;



…notice my nice new Japanese marking knife?  My old Footprint is not pointy and only works one way round, so instead of grinding it pointy I spent some money instead. ……and then cut three boards all at once;



…at this point I’m quite chuffed by following the line very closely and cutting right next to it and it’s cut square;



Next thing I realise is the board is rounded down one edge, “It’s shelving you plonker, course it’s got a rounded edge!”, plus one of the boards is a few mm narrower than the other two;



Hmm, this quick and easy five minute job’s starting to look like a bit like a two or three day-er now.  So time to sit down and have two cups of tea to sort out what to do.  The boards’ll need to be the same width, or two will at least, plus I think I’ll need to have flat tops or bottoms to glue to the other bits.  Wot I needs to do is plane the edges flat, together.  I could try clamping them together and standing them up, but I’m sure there’s a better way.  Aha, why not make a shooting board says I!;

So I get two of the other board ends, one sticking out to run the plane on, and one recessed to give clearance for the iron to plane edge and out with my trusty 5 ½ ;



Shhh shhh shhh and some nice long shavings;



However, after a little while the old lumbago started playing up and I realised why the Japanese sit on the floor with pull-planes, so I thought I needed some elevation;



…nope, that aint working;



…yep, that’s better, a couple of clamps and some wedged strips and oooh look at those nice fine shavings;



(it almost looks like I know wot I’m doing for a second!).  shh shhh shh for a bit and;



there’s some nice level boards and….;



yep, that’s square;



and straight.

To be continued…….




Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline Brass_Machine

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #1 on: October 03, 2013, 02:15:33 PM »
Hiya Ross,

I am sure you will make it through this just fine.  :med: I am going to watch this.

Eric
Science is fun.

We're all mad here. I'm mad. You're mad.

Offline DavidA

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2013, 02:43:37 PM »
I can see your problem.  You're wearing the wrong sandals.

Dave

Online PekkaNF

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #3 on: October 03, 2013, 02:54:06 PM »
Uuh huh?

Have you got:

Japanese woodworking tools
Their tradition, spirit and use

Toshio Odate

Book that titled must give you pain.

I got almost mad when I read it. Give me Krenov anytime. If you must - try Nakashima by George!

Pekka

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #4 on: October 03, 2013, 03:30:08 PM »
Uuh huh?

Have you got:

Japanese woodworking tools
Their tradition, spirit and use

Toshio Odate

Book that titled must give you pain.

I got almost mad when I read it. Give me Krenov anytime. If you must - try Nakashima by George!

Pekka

Hiya Pekka. Oh yes, that's the one.  I have Japanese Carpentry too, by Nakahara, the joints in there are enough to send you mad.  If I have another thirty years I may get some of the basics!

Dave, I have a solution to the sandal problem;


Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline awemawson

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #5 on: October 03, 2013, 04:57:57 PM »
 :ddb: Cloven  hooves  :ddb:

Must be the sulphur smelling monster himself   :lol:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Arbalist

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #6 on: October 03, 2013, 05:24:39 PM »
Nice work so far, keep it up!  :thumbup:

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #7 on: October 03, 2013, 09:28:31 PM »
Yes, doing a very good job!  :thumbup:  :clap:

Krenov, Pekka, that brings me back. I had a boat shop in the 70's and read Krenov then. Made wood planes out of Osage orange, sharpened Japanese saws with feather file and set them with that tiny hammer, bought a hand operated grinding wheel and made his wooden guide for sharpening tools, and resawed  previously impossible widths with a 1/2" bandsaw blade. He was really something. An inspiration.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline TLGriff

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #8 on: October 03, 2013, 09:53:16 PM »
Ross.

It's always fun watching these step by step build threads. Thanks for taking the time to document you project. Nice job on the pics as we'll, what camera are you using?

Tom

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #9 on: October 04, 2013, 03:21:13 AM »
Ross.

It's always fun watching these step by step build threads. Thanks for taking the time to document you project. Nice job on the pics as we'll, what camera are you using?

Tom

Thanks Tom :wave:

It's a Nikon 1 V1, which was a steal at about £270 last year.  Super-fast focus and nice and small.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #10 on: October 04, 2013, 03:25:38 AM »
:ddb: Cloven  hooves  :ddb:

Must be the sulphur smelling monster himself   :lol:

Awemawson

You don't know how useful a forked tail is, till you try making toast in front of a roaring log fire :thumbup:
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #11 on: October 04, 2013, 03:29:35 AM »
Right then ladies an Gennelmen, I have a wee confession to make, I started this box a week ago, so there is some delay, between the actions and the reportage, I am not finished yet so the reports will probably catch up soon.

The next bit is to make the ends.  These are recessed for some handles.  Now the width is, erm, let me think, the width of the board minus two thicknesses, that’s about……I know, measure the thickness of two boards, lay one across the bit I’m going to cut, take off the two thicknesses and hit it with the saw;



B****r, I knew I was being overly chuffed, this means a lot of shaving with the block plane, to get to the line;



 and…….b****r, test fitting showed I was too wide and the sides were about 5mm wider than the base with the ends in place;



 ……so I took 5mm off the ends with the saw (actually followed the line this time) and then the whole lot was about 3mm too narrow?????????????;



After a cup of thinking tea, I realised that one of the boards was a couple of mm thinner than the other two and I swapped them around too often!!  Should have marked each side and the bottom with big letters or summat.  Anyway, I thought it was either time to go in or carry on and glue and pin it up.  Typically, I made the wrong decision and carried on when it was obvious my thinking brain had decided to go inside without me.  I next put some temporary blocks inside the sides to stick the ends up to when putting it together  (the end pieces will go up to the inner side of these, as there’s a recess for handles at each end);



It put some effort and more thinking tea to come up with how to do this, with no work table and only two 12” handy clamps.  Bearing in mind my thinking brain was in-doors watching the telly, this proved to not be the best decision I’ve ever made, but that’s for tomorrow……..

Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #12 on: October 04, 2013, 04:17:49 AM »
Great Post so far. I wait in eager anticipation for the continuation. Thanks for posting.
 :thumbup:
John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Online PekkaNF

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #13 on: October 04, 2013, 07:24:05 AM »
Yes, doing a very good job!  :thumbup:  :clap:

Krenov, Pekka, that brings me back. I had a boat shop in the 70's and read Krenov then. Made wood planes out of Osage orange, sharpened Japanese saws with feather file and set them with that tiny hammer, bought a hand operated grinding wheel and made his wooden guide for sharpening tools, and resawed  previously impossible widths with a 1/2" bandsaw blade. He was really something. An inspiration.

On my honeymoon (or something....) once - we wandered into a bookstore that had extensive woodworking section and there I sat on floor reading books and putting them into ever growing pile...there is only so much you can pack into a suitcase and bring home. Mind you, we were going trough Texas and most of the Mexico on public trasportation and flying back home. I bought probably 7 books and one of them was The Fine Art of Cabinetmaking....sounds familiar?

Incidently, you are not a well bearded guy who wrote a book about boatbuilding. Keeping waterstone in frigid water?

Pekka

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #14 on: October 04, 2013, 09:15:58 AM »
As mentioned I am trying to catch up on a weeks work so you may be lucky enough :doh: to have more than one episode a day!

So, onto the blunders of the day.  As mentioned. The thinking brain was indoors watching Top Gear on Dave (for the 15 millionth time), whilst the body was outside.  Looking at the box, I thought it was looking a bit tall for it’s width and was also thinking about having a tray that fitted inside for bits n bobs n stuff.  “I know”, says I “build it, cut the top off, fiddle a bit to make the top smaller and you’ve got four sides of a tray to fit inside.”  So I bunged my tallest tool inside;



…and worked out that I’d need six inches clearance for the bottom.  I could then work out how big the top was, divide it in two, do a little fiddling for clearance etc and know how much to cut off.  Pure genius!

However, I then started sticking it together, somehow I now convinced myself that I was going to cut the top off six inches from the base!!!! So sellotaped the sides of the end bits 6” up so they wouldn’t stick to the side bits?!?;



squirted some glue on the end wotsits, cack handedly assembled these on the base-board and clamped the ends together and pinned the top and bottoms of the end wotsits from the outside;



This lot seemed square and level in the up and downward dimension as it was all flush and tightish to the board, so I flipped it over and pinned the bottom on, ensuring that the ends of the side-boards(!?!) were flush at one end of the base and one side at least, was flush with the edge of the base.

Now, as I’ve mentioned more than once, the thinking brain was inside, now having a snooze on the sofa.  I had a couple of options on joining the whole lot together, screws or nails.  The old traditional Japanese way is with nails and to my mind it’s a bit easier than screwing (fnaar fnaar).  So I bashed a couple of nails in free-hand;



T**s, B****r and other expletives, so I got out Mr Makita “He very tough, He very Strong” and drilled some pilot holes in for the rest.  Bash, Bash, Bish, Ouch, the base was on the sides and ends, all I had to do was bash the sides onto the end wotsits.  So I flipped it on its side, Bash, Bish, Bosh and job done.  However, had I checked that the end wotsits were supported when Bashing?  Course not, so they’d slipped down a bit and then got bashed into position in the wrong position;



…still I suppose it’ll help for drainage or air circulation or Summat.  I marked the centre(ish)lines of the boards for nailing, but left final positioning up to my own aesthetic principles;



I believe the non-even spacing is based on the Golden Section and therefore much more philosophically correct than using a rule.!!

I also realised that the edges of the end wotsits weren’t square to the faces, leaving more room for expansion (and too much for adhesion);



Anyway, it surely can’t get any worse can it? 


Hmmmm!  Have you ever had one of those days when you’ve thought “I don’t think I should have done that!” or “I really don’t think I should have gone out to the workshop today, cos my thinking brain is still asleep” or “WHY OH WHY OH WHY DID I GET OUT OF BED!!!”

Today has been one of those days.  I should have learnt the last time I tried to cut the lid off a box, or I should have got the table saw out, or I should have decided the box looked fine as it was.  Currently I don’t think I should have thought “I know, I’ll cut the top off that box, with a Japanese saw that I’ve not got used to yet”.

It almost started well.  I marked a line 6” up from the base on each side, then remembered that that’s the height of my plane.  So I measured from there to the top, divided that in two, thought a bit then guessed that 2 ½” down from the top would be okay, rubbed the first line out and marked the new line.  Next I started ripping along the lines at each corner, till I started cutting into the recessed ends and marked a line across from the kerfs.  So far so good.  I was noticing that there was a lot of juddering going on, which I hadn’t had when testing the rip side of the blades out.  I then tried ripping across the ends;



At this point, I was finding it a bit tricky as the saw was juddering quite a bit and it was difficult getting the angle right, plus I wasn’t following the line as well as usual.  I was thinking it might be because I wasn’t standing above the work.  Anyway, I cut across both ends;



..not brilliant but not too far out.  Next to rip down the sides.  For this the work was lower and I could put a foot on it, however;



Hmmmm, not quite on the line here, and I don’t think the blade should be over at that angle.  I carried on from the other end and joined the two cuts up.  Then I started on the other side and “OH WHAT THE B****Y H***S GOING ON HERE!!!”  I was getting frustrated with the saw juddering, then it was leaning more and more to the right and then I lost the line and will to live;


Here’s the top bit wot I cut off;



…and here’s the bottom bit wot I’ve got left;





and here’s where the b****y saw bit me;



All I can say is ****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I’ve now got a box with a top edge all on the p**s (at an angle) in every b****y angle known to man and probably some unknown ones, plus some bits for a tray which is completely on the p**s in the opposite manner.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!!!!!!

How the b****y h**l am I gonna sort this out?  The options seem to be; a, lots of planing, once I’ve marked a new line to go to, by hand;  b, Getting out the planer and making a racket and shavings everywhere; c, unboxing the table saw and using that.

****, ****, ****ity, ****, ****!!!!!!!!

Todays main lesson learnt appears to be that using Japanese saws requires some practice and finding the correct technique and way of holding them.

B****r, I’m going outside, I may be some time!


Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #15 on: October 04, 2013, 09:28:39 AM »
Some suggestions:

1. Use clamps to pre-assemble and check for fit and square before adding fasteners.
2. Always drill for fasteners while clamped (for both nails and screws). Nails hold better if pre drilled, believe it or not.
3. Fasten while clamped, and check for square frequently if nailing. Use a light hammer for this type of work.
4. When sawing with Japanese saws, the angle should be quite low, just barely clearing your hand over the material. You are essentially marking with the saw ahead of the main cutting portion, and the saw will follow that line. Holding it near vertical can cause the saw to wander. They cut on the pull stroke, so relieve pressure on the forward stroke. Apply very little pressure on the pull stroke -- let the saw do the cutting. Position yourself so that you can see and so are able to prevent a bevel cut -- low and behind the stroke -- like your camera angle which illustrates the problem.

Hope this helps. Keep up the good work. Don't become discouraged!
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #16 on: October 04, 2013, 09:45:13 AM »
In this photo, I wouldn't have started like this with the saw at a 45 degree angle. For a couple of reasons. You are cutting two sides at once. They will fight each other (judder).



Try to cut a single side at a time.  So I would start with the overlapping sides, rather than the end. When they were cut, I would come back to the ends. Keep the saw at a low angle when making long cuts.

I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #17 on: October 04, 2013, 10:35:48 AM »
Thanks for the advice VTSTEAM, :thumbup:  I Wish you were a mind reader  :med: and told me before I started!

As you'll find out I am still low on the learning curve here with these saws, and have followed a suggestion to keep the saw at a very low angle for rip cutting, which works, but is a lot slower.

If there is a next time I'll definitely do it differently :Doh:
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #18 on: October 04, 2013, 11:28:24 AM »
have followed a suggestion to keep the saw at a very low angle for rip cutting, which works, but is a lot slower.

Actually, it isn't a lot slower, it just seems slower because the length of cut is longer so the sawblade descends at a slower rate, but it is removing a good amount of material with each stroke since more teeth are cutting at a time. Also the coarsness of the rip side of the blade should be matched to the material for best speed.

Incidentally, fast growth hard pine like what you are using is a difficult material, with wide bands of alternating hard and soft grain. You are doing very well for starting out, and for having given yourself a real challenge.

Try out some practice cuts on scrap and see how close you can get to true and square rips. When you get the feel and rhythm down you'll find that Japanese saws are amazingly effective and accurate in your hands.

The real point is that the more you do it, the more you will acquire the "feel" -- that's why practice on scrap is extremely useful. But taking on a big project can get discouraging when things don't work out as they seemed to when pictured in your imagination. Don't quit. Concentrate on cutting a perfect line, not on making a toolbox, and you will find your enjoyment again.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #19 on: October 04, 2013, 05:36:57 PM »
Ah lookee another instalment,

I measured how much of the top of the box had been Mullered, 3/8” and marked a line around to cut/plane to;



I’d been thinking over suggestions on how to do this and decided as it was quite a lot of wood that I’d need to remove at the corners, so I thunked that I’d cut them with the saw, as I wasn’t quite so crap at that.  Then I put some battens on to act as a guide;



Then I started cutting, the first corner I angled the saw down and cut, reasonably smoothly (VTSteam, this was all before your advice so apologies for continued idiocy);



….and the next corner I cut up, trying to vary the angle, but generally using a low angle (30ish degrees);  this went juddery or smoothly depending, I think I started realising why, it seems to be due to the thinness of the wood;



I noticed afterward, that even with the guide, I still wasn’t getting a straight/square cut (Possibly due to cutting through the two angles of wood);





There’s a lot more to using these saws than I’d thought!!

One side was fine;



but the corresponding end was still a bit on the p**s.  Luckily, the guide battens meant the cut went into the bit I didn’t want this time.   This was when rain occurred, so I came in to drink my tea on the sofa instead of the garden chair (need to get some Hob-nobs).  I then tried some thinking, which started to induce a head-ache.


Hennyway, the rain, rain went away (to Spain?) and I wandered back outside and put everything back out and trimmed the waste from the corners;





….jammed the end against a carefully positioned nail;



…and planed the wobbly bits off;



….surprisingly enough the results were pretty square and straight;





…apart from one little bit where I’d still managed to undercut;



Next job was to start ripping the top end-cappy wotsits, following sage advice, I laid the saw down;



…to the angle above and lower, this resolved a lot of vibration issues.  Hey Ho Nonny, a fairly straight cut;



I then discovered that the box was perfect to lay a plane upside-down in to trim the bits of wood straight and square;



…and made an excellent receptacle for the shavings;



…and before long one end wotsit bashed home;



…then another;



..and then a check to see if the saw fits;



…woopsie, another cock-up on the measuring front.  I’d forgotten to allow for the end recess when miscalculating the size.  However with a bit of bendification;



VOILA!

Nextly I ripped the edge off another bit of board, cut it to length and worked out how to hold it upright to plane the edge to size;



…and howzat, it fits;



A bit more ripping (note the nail wedged in to stop the wood binding on the blade which it was doing verily much);



and a couple of batten doo-dahs to hold the lid up;



..and hey ho, most of the major structure done;





…..a little bit of tartification on the corners to relive the arris’s



….and that’s the end of a good days work. 
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #20 on: October 05, 2013, 02:33:55 AM »
Mornin Ross!

Thanks for another entertaining episode.  :clap: :clap:

Did you enjoy last night's steak n wine? (See..... I have been taking notice).  :thumbup:

I've learned a lot from your recent posts. But, I still prefer my angle grinder for finishing off/ tidying timberwork.
Got a couple of oversize fence panels. (Or is it undersize between posts)? To fit, this afternoon........  :(

David D

David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #21 on: October 05, 2013, 03:46:14 AM »
What an entertaining and dare I say informative piece of writing. So a lot of the information was how NOT to do, who cares? Good to learn from other's miscalculations, cheaper too,  :) Still a great read and project plus I thoroughly enjoyed the time it took to read. Keep at it.

John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline Pete W.

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #22 on: October 05, 2013, 04:02:25 AM »
Hi there, Ross,

Looks like you've forgot the 'andles,   :D   :D   :D 

And the fings wot 'old the candles.   :lol:   :lol:   :lol: 

Seriously though, well done.   :clap:   :clap:   :clap:  I particularly admire the way you manage without a 'proper' bench, or even a Workmate.
Best regards,

Pete W.

If you can keep your head when all about you are losing theirs, you haven't seen the latest change-note!

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #23 on: October 05, 2013, 08:00:35 AM »
Thank you very much for the kind comments Pete, John and David :thumbup:.  It's great to hear such positive stuff and that you're enjoying the progress.  I would like to hope that my own blunderings will encourage anyone with limited resources and experience "to have a go".  As John said, they may even learn from my mistakes :palm:!

David, Last night actually became my second Friday speciality, Salmon in Cream, with Cider Accompaniment.  This is SWMBO's preferred option to the masculine slab of meat.  Thanks for remembering, there will be a test at the end :coffee:.  Good luck with the fence, surely there's nothing that an angle-grinder or Birmingham Screwdriver can't fix.

And now, Drumm-dee-diddle-de-drum.

Ladies, Gentlemen and Accountants, please get ready to take your seats for todays thrilling instalment of Ross-san's series in making shavings and sawdust

Nextly I was going to make the end wotsits that are used as handles for carrying the box (for' kandles Pete?).  All I needed was to make some bits of wood to fit in the recesses at the end of the box, with some spacers and job done.  Can’t be difficult can it?  I was going to cut an off-cut of board in half for this and thought that instead of ripping it, I could use the Japanese technique for cutting thin boards.  If dividing the board along the grain, they use something very like a marking gauge with a knife in it.  They slit down one side then slit the other and snap it.  So I tried slicing/knifing both sides of the board;



…and then leant on it to simply snap along the line.  Lean, LEAN, LEEEAAAANN, nope, no breaking.  So I had to b****y well rip it.  Not noticing any great improvement from the boots yet;



Plane the edges neat and square;



Trim the edges to make the hand holds nice and smooth;



put some spacers in the end of the box;



and all I need to do is pop the handles in, simples;



B******s, another miscockulation.  I’m thinking I measured the gap at the end with two bits of thin board and am trying to fill the gap with two bits of thick board.  So, bang a couple of nails in the “workbench”, jam the boards up to them, shhhh, shhh, shhh, with the No 5 ½  bam, bam, bam and Hey Presto (My Granddad was called Morrison, wonder if it's any relation);



Two nice flush end wotsits, so now one finished outer box (sans rope handles and internals);



Next task is plane the edges of the bits which will make the sides of the tray;



Here you may notice my planing arrangement on my “high-tech workbench”; a few nails to stop movement and hoping that it is upright.  Then I checked to see if the tray will fit in above the plane and leave 15mm clearance for the lid;



As I’ve done so little, I thought I’d show you my nuts!;



The apprentice says he could do with a couple, what with that little operation he had and all!  That’s 2 ½ kilos of wild hazelnuts (Cobnuts to those of you from Kent), picked up over three days going for a walk with the apprentice.  Should save me a couple of quid come Christmas.

Then I got distracted, due to not want to face carrying on planing so I nailed a couple of off-cuts across the bottom for "feet".





That should keep it away from the crud and wet on the “workshop” floor.  Then I had a look at the last bit of board, that’s going to be the bottom of the chisel tray;



Hmmm, I believe that’s called “cupping”, just remember that if you’re thinking of buying pine shelving from B&Q!  This means I’ll have to nail it to the bottom of the side and ends of the tray.  This poses a problem, as the tray bits are just about the right size to fit under the lid and I had intended the base to be nailed “inside” them.  So for no particular reason (apart from not wanting to cut or plane the side/end bits any more) I thought I’d plane a rebate for the base to fit into.  So I nailed a bit of batten along the edge of the “side bits”;



and had a go with the handy No 311;



However I did notice that the rebate was not particularly square across the bottom and wondered if it was due to the blade(iron) not coming out of the slot square;



I re-sharpened the iron twice, but it was still on the p**s (Positional Instability Sloping Situation) and I think it might be because the bed for the iron is actually machined with the Positional Instability problem.  I also noticed that I was not holding the plane particularly square either, so who knows, so I gave up and came in.

TTFN
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #24 on: October 05, 2013, 02:29:56 PM »
Hmmm, Hrrmmmph.  I can truly say it’s been one of those days of ups and downs, I think the downs won though.

I was going to finish the rebates for the sides of the chisel tray.  Remembering there was a “Positional” issue with the shoulder plane iron, I thought I’d see if I could re-sharpen it and be third time lucky.  First of all I checked if my water-stones were flat.  Nope, so I used the high-tech flattening system. One; draw pencil lines across the stone;



…two; prepare flattening station, here I’m pouring water on the concrete flag-stone in the “workshop”;



….three; rub it up and down and round and round, till you remove the pencil marks;



…check with a straight edge in all directions, if flat, sharpen plane iron;



General improvement and it’s now slightly cock-eyed to the other side.  Anyway, it worked, however it takes a long time and many cups of tea to make this many rebates;



..it was actually sharp enough to go through a knot with no real problems;



Nextly I noticed the lid to the tool-box had wedged itself shut, The wood’ s been moving a fair bit and I think it’s sucked up a fair bit of humidity  (rain?) from the air.  Having gently removed the lid with a block of wood and a framing hammer, I bevelled the edges which seemed to resolve the problem;



You might see that not only has the wood got fatter, it also cupped despite the batten across it.  Following this, I ripped and trimmed some more board to make the base of the tray,cut the sides to length, glued and pinned them on and checked the ends for fit.  These needed side “rebates” so out with Mr 311 again;



shhhmm, shhhmm, shhhm, Pare with a chisel;



bash bang ‘ouch’ and;



Woopsie, that’s a pin which went 90 degrees round a corner and out again;




…and there we go, nearly there.  I was feeling tired, the light was about to fade so I thought I’d pack away, then;



…that’s what happens when you try to stick your water-stones away, on top of the fridge-freezer, without turning the light on in the larder.  B****r, B******s, ****!!!.  That’s a brand new stone, ordered from Japan, that I only got three weeks ago. T**s, B*****y and B******s.  I think I’m going to have to use that for sharpening the nail scissors from now on, S**t.

TTFN.



Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline awemawson

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #25 on: October 05, 2013, 02:55:10 PM »
Ross, you are welcome to run your plane irons and chisels through my Viceroy Sharpedge any time you want. Dead easy to get a good sharp and square edge on them.

Andrew
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #26 on: October 05, 2013, 05:43:49 PM »
Take your cupped board and lay it cup side down on the lawn in the sun for about half an hour and check it. Repeat until straight.

I don't know whether it is traditional for Japanese tool chests, but oil based paint or varnish does wonders to stabilize wood, For obvious reasons, water based paints aren't a good idea if you are having this kind of trouble.

Next time when picking out lumber for this kind of wide flat use, look for quarter sawn grain (vertical bands, end on) rather than flitch sawn (horizontal), or as close as you can get.

Fast growth hard pine will tend to warp more than better woods, also.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline Pete49

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #27 on: October 05, 2013, 11:09:49 PM »
here I was thinking I have had a bad week and then I read your tales of woe and now my week doesn't seem so bad :beer:. I can see that you drive nails just like me ....do you borrow my hammer while I'm asleep? Keep at it its been an entertaining read so far.
Pete
oops..........oh no.........blast now I need to redo it

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #28 on: October 08, 2013, 12:08:14 PM »
Very little to report so far.  Motivation levels are at a low ebb, not helped by having 35quids worth of stone commit Hari-Kiri.  The edges of the cracks have crumbled too much for a glue-back-together exercise so it’s now relegated to the kitchen knife and axe department.

The other end cap for the tray was suffering from a little too enthusiastic paring so was suffering from a Positional Instability Slope Situation :doh: :Doh:;



so I inserted a bit of angled wood shim;



…threw some glue at it and bashed some pins in;



Even though all the side and end bits were supposed to be uniform in width etc, there’s a fair amount of not-quite-the –right-size-when-put-together-ness but nothing that a pass or two with a plane or flame-thrower won’t solve.  I shall return if motivation picks up, really shouldn’t take too long to finish this, should it? :scratch:
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #29 on: October 08, 2013, 03:04:33 PM »
That's a tough one. The point of everything is to enjoy yourself. And the only way to learn a difficult skill is to make mistakes. If you can't enjoy even those mistakes, the desire to continue can disappear.

When learning to draw as an artist, you do rapid gesture drawings of say 1 minute each on newsprint. You don't attach to them. If they come out badly, who cares, you just do another one in the next minute, then another, then another. Gradually and eventually something good comes out of it. And you find facility. And your drawing gets better until you surprise yourself -- it starts to become unconscious and innate as an ability.

But if you start out trying to draw a figure like Davinci did, buy the most expensive paper, and supplies and just go at it as the only shot you have, and it goes badly, as it will, that can stop you in your tracks, and discourage you from actually acquiring skills.

Why not try taking your shelf apart, and cutting it down into a smaller box with thinner but straight sides. You will find a use for it, but besides that, just think of it as a practice piece. It isn't important. What is important is learning.

And then after that, try again to make a shelf with some new lumber. You will have had more practice by then, and will be aware of the potential problems in planing sawing and making fits. And when finished with it you will satisfy yourself about the quality of what you do and your own abilities. And you will have a good shelf, too.

Taking care of your own enjoyment and pride in your work is much more important than any other aspect of acquiring a skill. Your mistakes are okay, just part of learning, and convertible into something else.

If you can maintain enjoyment in learning, everything else will follow.
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
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Offline dsquire

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #30 on: October 08, 2013, 06:14:28 PM »
Ross

I fully agree 100% with what Steve just posted. Enjoy the work, it's the journey that's important. In the end you will have that nice tool box that every one will be envious of.  :clap: :clap:

I myself am more of a woodworker that a metal worker, but I enjoy both. I enjoy the journey and the compliments when it is finished. I was always taught that "Haste makes waste" so try to slow it down and plan and double check before making a cut.  :smart: :coffee: :smart: :coffee:  :thumbup: 
:D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don

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and your better best

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #31 on: October 09, 2013, 04:22:19 AM »
Thanks for the encouragement and advice Don and Steve :thumbup:

My motivation issues are caused by nasty and protracted issues with my employer :(, not the toolbox, which is one of the few things still keeping me sane :med:.  My current approach is that by making mistakes I am learning all the time and actually enjoying overcoming these.  The other thing is that I'm trying to use as few tools as possible in a primitive environment, which I think makes me less careful than if I were in a workshop with bench etc.  I don't think the tray (shelf) is going badly and looks like it'll do what was intended.  My perfectionist side may wince at a couple of errors along the way, but the whole project is generally as good as, if not better than I could have expected.  Hopefully others are enjoying the journey as much as me.

Ross
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline redshift

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #32 on: October 09, 2013, 04:55:06 AM »
Ross, love you style of writing and the humour!  Have you thought of making a youtube video of your projects, I am sure they would
complement Doubleboost's  productions down to a tee.
Best of luck with the employment issues, don't let the barstewards grind you down !!
Regards
Dave

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #33 on: October 11, 2013, 01:45:56 PM »
Once again not a lot of progress.  The Hampshire Monsoon started at lunch time, but at least Hurricanes Hardly Ever Happen Round here (or so they say).  However, I did finish the main body of the tray;





that’s the detail of the b********d corner.  I put a couple of strips of quadrant in, wot I found hiding in the outhouse, this’ll support the tray;



…and luckily the tray fits in;



….I’m sure I don’t need to show you the spacer I had to fit in to stop the tray falling through due to miscockulation on the width of it!  We’ll take it as read that that was “planned”.

…one hand braided handle later;



……. and I think we’re on the final straight.  Must admit, it’s getting a bit heavy now, not sure if I’ll be able to pick it up with tools in it, but we can’t have everything can we?

Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #34 on: October 11, 2013, 05:40:19 PM »
Ross, you are welcome to run your plane irons and chisels through my Viceroy Sharpedge any time you want. Dead easy to get a good sharp and square edge on them.

Andrew

Andrew, I've just remembered.  I tried to make one of these myself a few years ago.  It involved my gramophone (record player), a glass platter, double sided carpet tape and some wet n' dry.  Dare I say it was not particularly effective, even when left overnight.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline awemawson

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #35 on: October 11, 2013, 05:46:11 PM »
Ross you'll not be dissapointed with this one. When I got it I couldn't stop the builder I was employing at the time playing with it. I reckon it sharpened all his chisels and plane irons, his mates, his cousins and his lost uncle from Botswana !
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #36 on: October 11, 2013, 06:02:46 PM »
Ross you'll not be dissapointed with this one. When I got it I couldn't stop the builder I was employing at the time playing with it. I reckon it sharpened all his chisels and plane irons, his mates, his cousins and his lost uncle from Botswana !

We had one at night school, I believe that was used by all the students, their mates, their mates mates, their cousins, their cousins mates, their cousins cousins and lots of "uncles" from Botswana (and several from British West Hartlepool).  By the time I got to use it, large clouds of smoke poured out of the cupboard at the bottom and it got "locked off" for several months.  Admittedly, most items of machinery I use tend to have large amounts of smoke pour out of them.  I can't even borrow a lighter without it going SNAFU.  My mate Phil at work believes that no matter how "idiot proof" you can make an item, natural selection brings me along to prove evolution will always produce a better idiot!!
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #37 on: October 11, 2013, 07:06:01 PM »
Hennyway, a few days ago this appeared in the hallway;



I believe it is some form of sisal twine.  Somehow SWMBO had been prescient and realised I’d need some form of handles for the toolbox and provided the aforementioned.  I had been thinking of various clever ways of making a handle for the chisel tray, toying with articulated ebony swivels, self-locking iron handles, specially routed lengths of pine etc. etc. etc.  But the obvious and most simple solution was;



….braided twine.  Simple, minimalist, natural, ecologically friendly, vegan and carbon neutral(ish).  So braid, braid, braid and;



two tray handles, to match;



…two box handles. 

Strangely enough the beloved came home this evening, obviously having had a brain-storm and forgetting her original revelation to say “Have you seen the string I got for work?  What’s that, what are you doing with my string!!!”
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #38 on: October 12, 2013, 12:08:11 PM »
Well then, crumbs.   Somehow, without really thinking about it, I seem to have finished.  Not sure how that happened but I’ll not complain.  First of all I bashed some pins into some odd bits and quadrant to make a divider for the saws and little wotsits to hold the planes in place;



Then I realised I could start putting things in it;



..a couple of planes;



…6 saws and;



..before I knew it I was bunging all sorts of stuff in.  Then I bashed a bit of quadrant and a bit of scrap in the tray to keep the chisels in one place and;



…lookee here, a double decker “more room up top, move along the bus please!”.  Finally here’s a shot with all the tools used;



The battery drill and anything to the right are luxuries which weren’t really essential, plus I could have got away with using only one plane, so you don’t really need all that many tools.

Thanks for watching and all the support.  I’m thinking of getting the two bits of rough cut oak out for the next project.  Might chat again.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline dsquire

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #39 on: October 12, 2013, 12:45:53 PM »
Ross

It is almost a shame to see this project come to an end. It has been a very enjoyable read and a few laughs. On top of that we have learned a tip or two. I know that I will be watching for your next project and I am sure many other MadModders will be as well.  :thumbup: :thumbup: :clap:
:D :D

Cheers  :beer:

Don
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and your better best

Offline awemawson

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #40 on: October 12, 2013, 12:50:09 PM »
Well done Ross, another enjoyable journey  :thumbup:
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Joules

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #41 on: October 12, 2013, 12:50:49 PM »
My wood work always comes in handy around this time of year....  Soon be November Dad is the usual comment  :poke:

        Joules
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #42 on: October 12, 2013, 01:14:52 PM »
Thanks for the kind comments everyone :thumbup:, I'm glad you're enjoying it as much as I am.

Joules, I presume you'll be making a Guy to go on your projects like me :headbang:!
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Offline mattinker

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #43 on: October 12, 2013, 02:42:01 PM »
Ross,

I've been enjoying your venturing into the realms of wood!

One little thing, planes should never be left on their blades, when working, lay them down on their sides when not in use. I don't want to spoil your layout in the box, so how about a small block of wood under one end so the "Irons" don't touch the bottom?

I'm sure your going to find a new project to amuse us with, all the best, Matthew

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #44 on: October 12, 2013, 03:19:35 PM »
Thanks for the comment Matthew :thumbup:.

I always try and retract the blade before storing a plane, I lay them on their sides in use.  I had thought of little blocks under the planes, but I'm very tight on clearance at the top, so the intention is to chisel a rebate for the "mouth" in case I forget.  Actually two rebates, so the planes can go in either way round.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #45 on: October 12, 2013, 03:51:20 PM »
Well done Ross!  :clap: :clap: :clap: :clap:

I really enjoyed the journey, and the entertaining commentary....... Thank you!  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline SwarfnStuff

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #46 on: October 13, 2013, 01:05:50 AM »
A Most enjoyable, informative, and well written journey into the realms of sawdust and shavings. The rebates sound a good idea, cos you will forget to retract the blade one day. That is if you're anything like me who says to himself, "Self, Don't forget to slacken off the drive belt on the mill when you finish today". Then gets busy doing other stuff.). :doh:  incidentally, do you need a hand trolley to move it all when full???? Thanks again for the post.

John B
Converting good metal into swarf sometimes ending up with something useful. ;-)

Offline mattinker

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #47 on: October 13, 2013, 04:28:23 AM »
Thanks for the comment Matthew :thumbup:.

I always try and retract the blade before storing a plane, I lay them on their sides in use.  I had thought of little blocks under the planes, but I'm very tight on clearance at the top, so the intention is to chisel a rebate for the "mouth" in case I forget.  Actually two rebates, so the planes can go in either way round.

I suspect that you know more about wood working than your letting on!  But there would be no fun in it otherwise!

Regards, Matthew.

Online PekkaNF

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #48 on: October 13, 2013, 06:33:16 AM »
 Ok, it startted as a japanese style toolbox and became general philosophy to the love of this art! Great journey.

Only thing I wonder: Do you need a forklift to lift that? Then you probably should resort to correctly rated slings and lifting eye bolts :lol:

I'll get hernia just looking it. I didn't realize it is so large and loaded with iron ore.....japanese planes tend to made out pf wood.

Pekka

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #49 on: October 13, 2013, 07:55:21 AM »
Thank you for your comments Pekka, Matthew and John :thumbup:

Good Idea, Pekka, I wonder if I can make a forklift out of wood?  Alternatively I can stick wagon wheels on it and harness up the "apprentice".  I am considering Japanese planes for lightness.  If I stick my other four metal planes in, I can imagine that box aint going nowhere. 

Matthew, I'll admit to knowing some stuff about woodwork from books and night school, but I'm currently trying to convert the "head knowledge" into hand skills and practical working.  That's the hard bit and I have a long way to go.  The ideal would to be like an old school Japanese Carpenter (see Toshio Odate's books), where you turn up with six tools in a box and then build an entire wooden house, perfectly executed, without plans.  I realised I'd become a collector of tools and hardly ever got round to using them.  I'm now trying to work on the minimum number of tools I can get away with and maximise their use (or at least use them!).  Not having a shed is a bit of a hindrance.

John, you're supposed to slacken the mill drive belt :Doh:  I'd got as far as forgetting to slacken the vises and lathe tailstock locks.
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #50 on: October 13, 2013, 08:58:31 AM »
I've just come across this site which deals with finer ways of making toolboxes and lots of other Japanese inspired stuff;

http://www.daikudojo.org/Classes/toolboxes/

Might be a good resource for anyone else who's interested.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #51 on: October 17, 2013, 04:51:15 AM »
I think I've effected a permanent repair to the GBQ35 Whetstone, if you remember, it looked like this;



Due to the crumbling on the edges, I thought I wouldn’t even be able to glue it back together;



…many “boo hoo hoos” later and a bit of web-looking and following some great advice from a couple of guys on the UKWorkshop site, I thought I might be able to salvage it.  First thing to do was grind the broken edges, here I’m using a concrete paver, left over from the new path and a bit of 2x2 to hold it square;



…to do the next bit I made a guide to hold the next piece at the reverse angle to the first bit;



…and then I “lapped” the ground edges together for a good fit and to correct any angles between them, I was using a contoured tile I found in the garden, possibly a flat one or some glass would be better;






I wish I’d kept the sludge, as I could have mixed this with glue to fill some gaps!  I was left with three regular, non wobbly bits of whetstone;



Not 100% straight but good enough for government work at least;



I left these long enough to dry out and the next day I phoned the local glaziers, who had moved, so are no longer local and within 6 hrs I got delivered a cut to size, ground edged, piece of 6mm laminate glass.  This was a fiver so I recommend these guys;



I was so chuffed with the service I gave the driver a 2 pound note for his efforts.  I had intended to use a flat tile, but there weren't none in the garden.  We had some under the sink once, but since recently fitting new taps (again) I'm not going down there!

Next I got to the repairing bit.  1 packet Hobnobs, ¾ pint tea, two tubes of Araldite normal (found in spare room), some plastic card stuff, glass and the bits of stone.



araldite was mixed, spread on the glass and on the lower sides of the joining edges;



…all the bits were assembled;





and the flattening stone was re-deployed to weigh it all down;




I found I couldn’t put pressure on the ends of the stone to hold the joints together.  Being wedge shaped, they just slid sideways.  I think something rigid on either side would be needed, but as I wasn’t sure if this was normal or rapid Araldite (it turned out to be normal), I didn’t want to hang around to work it out.  Come the morning, everything was looking okay;



I could see the top surface was a little off true and a bit of glue had squirged out the gap;



....so I took it outside to the “flattening station” and it all came right;



It’s a wee bit shorter than it was, but still very much a usable size;



To see if it was up to scratch I took an unfettled plane iron to it.



…and I can safely say it works just as well as it did before I dropped it.  I am also very pleased that spending a fiver saved me having to get a new one.  If I wasn't afeared of the under-sink monsters it could have been free!
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RotarySMP

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #52 on: October 17, 2013, 10:31:02 AM »
Have you tried the Scary Sharp (TM) method using sandpaper? I gave it a try on my plane iron the other day and cerainly won't bother pissing around with trying to keep a whetsone falt anymore.

Between sandpaper from 180 through 2000 grit, my grante surface plate and a quick jig i copied from here http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/HPIM0555.jpg I got a way better edge than I'd ever acheive with the whetstone.

Offline jiihoo

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #53 on: October 17, 2013, 10:44:55 AM »
Wheatstone repair instructions filed away for when they will be needed... Thank you!

Jari

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #54 on: October 17, 2013, 12:37:05 PM »
Very nicely saved, Ross!  :clap: :clap:

That's proper MadModding, that is......  :thumbup:

David D
David.

Still drilling holes... Sometimes, in the right place!

Still modifying bits of metal... Occasionally, making an improvement!

Offline vtsteam

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #55 on: October 17, 2013, 02:31:22 PM »
I really enjoyed that repair sequence!  :thumbup: :clap:
I love it when a Plan B comes together!
Steve
www.sredmond.com

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #56 on: October 18, 2013, 04:49:10 AM »
Have you tried the Scary Sharp (TM) method using sandpaper? I gave it a try on my plane iron the other day and cerainly won't bother pissing around with trying to keep a whetsone falt anymore.
http://www3.telus.net/BrentBeach/Sharpen/HPIM0555.jpg I got a way better edge than I'd ever acheive with the whetstone.

Cheers Rotary SMP :thumbup:

I tried that before getting the whetstones.  I went to some ridiculously fine 3M lapping film after the 2000 wet n' dry and had the opposite experience to you.  It was all fixed on a piece of 8 or 10mm glass.  It was a lot of faffing and difficult to store and eventually I broke it  Maybe if I had more space and a granite surface it would have been easier.  I've found the stones preferable myself and I don't mind flattening them.  Maybe I just find a mindless task therapeutic :med:.  I can quite happily spend as much time sharpening tools as using them!

Thanks for the comments everyone else :wave:
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RotarySMP

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #57 on: November 08, 2013, 04:14:31 PM »
Know what you mean. There is a lot of satisfaction in doing some of these things. I guees I got lucky with the sand paper thing. I don't even bother sticking it down with water, so it just gets stored as a pile of loose papers.

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #58 on: November 08, 2013, 07:20:57 PM »
Know what you mean. There is a lot of satisfaction in doing some of these things. I guees I got lucky with the sand paper thing. I don't even bother sticking it down with water, so it just gets stored as a pile of loose papers.

I think I'm still trying to find a satisfactory sharpening method, the whetstones are good and quick, but the larger grits wear very rapidly, The paper method doesn't "hollow out", but can use a lot of paper, which costs a lot in the UK.  I'm now starting to question the steel of most of my tools.  I've had to resharpen my plane irons twice in less than a couple of hours in oak.  I've got a couple of Japanese chisels on order to see if they hold an edge better in high carbon steel over the alloy steel which most of my cutting tools are made of.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RotarySMP

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #59 on: November 10, 2013, 11:39:05 AM »
My only plane is cheap indian copy of a Stanley. The blade has been sharpened a few time by me by hand on a wavy whetstone,  and twice with sand paper to straighten it back up. I am making my wife a computor desk out of 72 strips eucalyptus laminated together, and managed to do top and bottom with only a single touch up of the blade.

Online PekkaNF

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #60 on: November 10, 2013, 12:03:52 PM »
My only plane is cheap indian copy of a Stanley.

Is that Anant? They are about as bad new Stanleys. You can work with them, put they need some serious tuning and while some Anants can be quite acceptable, some are really bad. Once I had a chance go trough about 7 Anant rabbet planes (new in the boxes on the shop) and while they are rated OK on the magazines, I could not find a one that I would take to my workshop to rebuild (I have a milling machine, lathes etc.) It could be that it was cream-of-the-cream what was left. One anant jack plane I used had pretty thin blade. Don't get me wrong, they are something I could use, but if I had a choice, I would buy used stanley.  Often it's the same price and both can be lemons, but good old stanley beats hands down all new cheap competion. They are really much better. Just make sure they are made before 70s, after that Stanleys went downhill.

I ordered three old Baileys (something like ¤4, #5, ¤6) for 150€ from England including shipping. My idea was that if one was pretty good and the other had faults or something to work I would be happy. All three were old/used but VERY useable. Just sharppened the irons, adjusted the chipbreaker and went away. Sometimes I get lucky.

But it's the man not the tool that makes the work. Your table looks good.

Pekka

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #61 on: November 10, 2013, 12:53:41 PM »
Rotary SMP, nice looking job, but a bit scarily large looking, do you have arms like Popeye now?  I bought an Anant No4 and it's generally fine, I think I got lucky with mine.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RotarySMP

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Re: How not to make a Japanese style toolbox
« Reply #62 on: November 12, 2013, 04:55:33 PM »
It is 170 x 72 x 4 cm. planning it was a good work out. It is an Anant plane I bought. Luckily I can't remember what a stanley is like, so I don't know how much better a plane can be :)

Pekka, you post motivated me to looking up "tuning up a  wood plane in Youtube". Thanks.