Author Topic: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee  (Read 12976 times)

Offline RossJarvis

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B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« on: November 08, 2013, 07:35:47 PM »
Rather than working in the back garden, I thought I’d find some other far from ideal circumstances to do some butchering in.  Some friends of mine live in a rambling manor house and attached buildings, in need of constant maintenance and money, which don’t exist.  They are converting part of an 1850 stables into some accommodation on a very low budget.  They thought it may be possible to re-use a door and frame instead of buying in a UPVC wotsit, so I said I’d have a go at helping.

The frame seemed to be a reasonable fit to a hole cut through the wall for a new main entrance so I took control (ha ha ha) of the wood side of things.  The frame itself had no sill and was anchored through a concrete floor with a couple of iron doo-dahs, the door was a semi-framed –ledged-and-braced arrangement and much wood-worm had been munching, sometime other the past 170 years.  The frame;




(this is actually a few days after I started on it)  and the door;



The frame and door had been removed from an exterior placement, which was under cover, the “head” had had the “horns” cut off exposing the sides of the tenons,  The pegs had been knocked out, one replaced and I spent 30 minutes whittling another one from some  “recovered” old pine, the foot of one of the side “jams?” had ben cut off due to rot and worm and was spliced in with new wood, leaving some large gaps and there were rebates for the “anchors?”.

The first thing I did was strip the paint with a hot air gun.  Much of the frame and door had never been painted, but a few layers of paint had been slapped on at various stages over the past 170 years, some of which went on over un-prepared damage.  Then I scraped and sanded the surface to bare wood as much as I could and then I started to fill with two part filler;









I cut some rot out of the bottom of the other leg and then plugged the gaps and used my shoulder plane to re-instate the mouldings;



This is another shot, long after the deed was done.

I must admit that I’m not following “best practice” but trying to do a reasonable job on a close to zero budget, so try not to point out too many failures unless your willing to pay some money into the project or can recommend zero budget remedies.

I’m also assuming that the worm has now “flown” as I can’t see evidence of recent activity, but can’t be sure here.  If I’m lucky I can find some treatment and may slap that on.

The next thing was to think about the sill.  My idea was to fabricate a hardwood sill and fit it to the bottom of the “uprights-legs-jambs-wotsits”, I found some good, very old pine, which might have done and had some bits of oak which could have been laminated together, but the chappie in charge poo-poohed these ideas.  Then we managed to get a bit of seasoned oak,  1 ½ x 9” for free so I was able to shape this to size;

I routed a drip in the bottom;



…and planed a drop of ½ inch over 7 by hand, which took about an hour and a half and filled a bin bag with shavings;  I then cut the bottoms of the legs into tenons (you can probably see the "new-old wood let in here);



…and chopped some mortices into the sill;





…using a spade bit and chisel.  Nextly I cut a lump of oak out of a bigger lump of oak using the rip side of my Ryoba saw.  As per usual, the cut went off line and was well on the  p**s vertically speaking, so I had another hour of planing and another bin-bag full of shavings to create a weather bar.  (this was possibly exended due to a combination of thinking time, resting time and fag-break time).  I then routed a strip into the sill and glueged the bar in;



This was then planed to a uniform height, arrises were relieved and I stuck the whole lot together with some screws to help;



I had a go at cleaning the hinges up and managed to demolish a Dremel flap-thingummy-jig in short order, but up until then the ironwork was coming up very nicely.  The general idea is to keep all the original iron-work and leave the door in as original a state as possible.  Henny-way, by this morning I’d done as much as I could with the frame so started on the door, pre-doing;



and after I’d started;



…the paint is relatively recent so comes off generally easily with the hot-air-gun, however it wasn’t put onto well prepared wood, so is deeply stuck in, in places.  Ho hum.  My current plan is to remove a fair bit of the bottom, as the frame is now shorter than original and put in a single piece bottom rail, tongue and grooved with a formed weather bar as part of this.  If anyone has some better suggestions, please make them before 11:00 Saturday 9th. Suggestions such as “do it properly you moron” may be ignored!
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline Joules

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #1 on: November 09, 2013, 03:54:34 AM »
 Your a handy moron to have around Ross  :thumbup:

Can't fault it so far.

               Joules
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #2 on: November 09, 2013, 04:14:47 AM »
Ross.

Sorry. No helpful suggestions........  :scratch:

But, it's looking good, and you're making me smile!  :thumbup:

Well done!  :clap: :clap:

David D
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #3 on: November 09, 2013, 05:18:38 AM »
Joules and David, thanks for the kind words :thumbup:
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline chipenter

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #4 on: November 09, 2013, 03:32:28 PM »
You don't realy need a weather bar for an outward opening door , can you take half of the top and half of the bottom .
Jeff

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #5 on: November 10, 2013, 01:12:59 PM »
You don't realy need a weather bar for an outward opening door , can you take half of the top and half of the bottom .

This one is actually inward opening, which might not be clear on the photos, plus the ground level rises from the building to above the sill level in a short distance, so there'll probably be a fair bit of splash-up.  I'm trying to be sure to be sure!  I had thought of one of those aluminium/rubber jobbies but I think the oak bar is more in keeping with the original doors around the property. 

The door also has big riveted wrought iron strap hinges and the frame has similarly over-size drop-the door-on-the-big-pin wotsits so I'll not be altering those in a hurry.  (I'm now getting mixed up with my weather-bar and weather-board nomenclature as well, I mean putting a weather board and combined bottom rail in).  There is also a lot of damage at the bottom of the door and the top is fine so I'm thinking at least a couple of inches need taking from the bottom to make good.  I need to take 30mm off at least to fit the new frame size anyway.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline chipenter

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #6 on: November 10, 2013, 02:48:47 PM »
Sorry my mistake , an oak weather bar glued and screwed to the stiles will help hold the bottom of the door together .
Jeff

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #7 on: November 14, 2013, 06:46:32 PM »
After a few more days I thought I’d update you on more of my incompetence.  As the days go on there are triumphs and failures and a growing insight into my own lack of abilities and knowledge in the wood-butchering arts.

Last time we met, I’d stripped the frame and filled the worst of the worm holes and dangerously eaten corner bits, made a sill and started stripping the door.  I’ve now stripped the door and have started b*******g this up too.  Door stripped;



The latch side of the door was fairly battered, inside and out on the lower half, due to 112 years of use (I’ve re-adjusted my dating technique, due to minute historical examination and research. I’d assumed the stables were the same age as the manor house which is 1850.  However, looking at a large plaque on the wall with the number 1901 on it, I’ve adjusted my estimate to approximately the turn of last century!).  Looking about at the options and spare bits of wood lying around, I routed a ½” rebate down the edges;



…and slapped a spare bit of moulding in the hole;



…I carefully sunk the pins far enough into the moulding to almost, but not quite, be clear of the planer blade when reducing the wood in size.  Having bashed the pins in a bit more, I levelled the new bits to the face and edge of the door by hand;



…..front and rear done;



I’d thought through a few ways of dealing with the bottom of the door, including making a bottom-rail-weatherboard, but ended up making a front fitting weatherboard from oak;



..and even remembered a drip;



I think ideally, a new door would normally be in order, due to the amount of worm holes in both frame and door, however, I quite like the idea of keeping some of the history of the building and the original work of who-ever made the door.  Currently I’m going to see how the door and frame will go by painting the front and edges, but leaving the bare wood and “patina” inside.  This may cause problems with warping, but it’s been good enough for 112 years.  A clear coat could be in order, but I’m not sure about the timing as the chappie in charge wants it in on Monday (must remember to pin the dpc on, must remember to pin dpc on, must remember….).  Anyway, here’s the door and frame standing in the middle of a coach house;





…it looks good enough to stand in a museum or gallery, surely if found-art is good enough for Marcel Du Champ?
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline ibuildstuff4u

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #8 on: November 14, 2013, 09:00:34 PM »
Looks great!  I love the look of the old door. 

Keep up the good work!

Dale P.

Offline Stilldrillin

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #9 on: November 15, 2013, 02:09:19 AM »
I've never heard of Marcel de Champ.......  :scratch:

But, that door assembly looks like a champ to me!  :thumbup:

Blummin well done, and well shown Ross!  :clap: :clap:

David D
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Online PekkaNF

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #10 on: November 15, 2013, 03:16:58 AM »
Blimey. You are making all jobs looking intriquing.

Starting to look like zero budget (in monetary terms) = kazilion man-hours + well equiped work-shop + evil genius.

Pekka

Offline awemawson

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #11 on: November 15, 2013, 03:56:50 AM »
Ross you have talents that you've been hiding from us  :bow: :bow:

Looking very good, and much nicer than a new door in my opinion. When we re-furbished our house the hard part was keeping a balance between character and practicality - making old houses into modern boxes is easy - making old houses into comfortable old houses is the hard part !

Andrew
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Offline Joules

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #12 on: November 15, 2013, 04:37:56 AM »
I like it Ross, your last photo looks like something out of the "Twilight Zone".  I think your skills have moved beyond dangerous.....  :med:

          Joules
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #13 on: November 15, 2013, 01:46:13 PM »
Once again, thanks for the kind positive comments :beer:.

Joules, you've got me thinking now, what happens if I open that door and walk through it, hmmm
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #14 on: November 15, 2013, 04:57:48 PM »
For those of you who think that my Works in Progress are like watching paint dry, here are some photos of paint drying, Primer Preservative;



…and first undercoat;



In case you’re wondering if the Harris Eclipse paint brushes;



 ….are better than their standard “no loss” type, because they are more expensive, I can confirm, NO THEY B****Y  WELL AREN’T;



…they seem to have missed the strap-line “TOTAL LOSS”!!!!!  Here you can see one of dozens of bristles carefully left smattering the surface;



Once again I forgot what I try to remember every time I paint something, “don’t put the paint on too thickly at first, you k**b, cos you’ll run out too quickly”.  So I ended up putting a third of a tin on the frame and a third on the door, this leaves me a third of the tin for the second coat on frame and door.  However, as I couldn’t find the dark grey undercoat so got white instead, I’m going to mix a bit of the green top-coat in with the undercoat.  Maybe the frame won’t need another coat as there’s already three coats worth of paint on it already.  Dulux says “one litre covers up to 16 square meters, 16 square meters my a**e.  If you can get 10 out of it you’re b****y lucky.  Plus, have you ever tried to work out what the range of Weathershield paints is?  Not by using their website you won’t and if you try finding all 3 parts of the 3 part system in one shop, you’re a better man than me Gunga Din.

Enough of that (not that I’m bitter), I’m hoping to put the second coat on tomorrow morning, once I’ve rubbed down all the flies and bits of Celotex stuffing that appear to be magnetically attracted to the door. 
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline PeterE

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #15 on: November 16, 2013, 04:47:20 AM »
You are doing a great job with that door Ross.  :clap:

Then when it comes to painting and getting paint brush bristels all over the surface, I was given an advice some years ago by a friend who is a painter by trade. He said;

"Any new paint brush will leave loose bristles in the beginning, no matter how expensive it was. The trick is to get the loose ones out before starting to paint. He was always washing his brushes with luke warm water and green soap before use and after drying them, "painting" dry over a fairly rough sand paper. "

The idea is to clean out any production residues and then to pull out those bristles that did not set in the glue.

Nowadays when most paint is water based, this can be done right before starting to panit, but if the paint is oil-based is is best to leave the brush to dry before painting to avoid water marks in the paint.

After having practiced this, I get far less bristles in the paint surface.

Hope this was useful, if you knew it before, please ignore.

BR

/Peter
Always at the edge of my abilities, too often beyond ;-)

Offline Pete W.

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #16 on: November 16, 2013, 05:14:30 AM »
You are doing a great job with that door Ross.  :clap:

SNIP

Nowadays when most paint is water based, this can be done right before starting to panit, but if the paint is oil-based is is best to leave the brush to dry before painting to avoid water marks in the paint.

SNIP

BR

/Peter

I think I've mentioned this in other threads but I guess it's worth repeating - one way to quickly dry a wet paintbrush is to rinse it in methylated spirits (non-drinkable alcohol).  When the alcohol evaporates, it takes the water with it.
Best regards,

Pete W.

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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #17 on: November 16, 2013, 11:22:24 AM »
Thanks for the tips Petes :thumb up:

I'd not heard either of those so it was new.  Far fewer bristles were left to come out on the second undercoat and I think I got to them before they became part of the door.  The earlier ones appear to have vanished into the door now so when the gloss goes on hopefully everything'll be fine.  The second coat has gone on lovely actually.  Didn't take the camera but I'll probably bore you with a piccie of that later.  Pete W, undrinkable alcohol is a useful but ultimately unsatisfying substance, I prefer the other sort for all sorts of uses and reasons, drinking being the main one :beer: :beer: :beer:.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #18 on: November 20, 2013, 02:23:52 PM »
BBBBBBBBBBBRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!  Absolutely freezing, after three days of hanging around in unheated out-buildings and the great outdoors.  Knackered as well as I seem to somehow have got involved in shovelling about 3 ton of sand into bags.  Meanwhile, back at the door.  A second undercoat was applied and then the gloss coat, which after two days is still fragile and pretty wet in a few areas where the drips developed.  I was pretty pleased with the finish, pretty even, hardly any sagging or dripping, but dust and mosquitoes were attracted, ho hum you can’t have everything.  Frame and door ready to go in;



frame in;



…….then time to apply the expanding foam, or as I now call it, the Devil’s Snot.  I did not get along well with this, possibly worsened by not seeing the note to use the can upside down, Doh!!  I wish I’d masked the whole of the frame for this, hey ho and then I stuck the door in the hole;



Generally looking good.  The door has a bit of a twist and no orientation of frame and door got it completely flush, however, with a bit of oak packing out the strap hinges it now closes on the latch and is reasonably flush, ish, particularly if you put your head on it’s side and squint, whilst looking the other way.  Here’s a view of the building with the door in;



…and here’s a view of the back of the door;



…and here’s a view of the back of the door after staining it, in an attempt to blend the new wood and bits of filler in;



I’m not sure how it’ll look when dried off, but it’s still “patchy”, I’m not quite sure how to blend these in any better.  I quite like the old and battered look of the inside and think it keeps a link to the past of an older building.  However as there is somewhat of a “committee” with an interest in the building there are other “good ideas” coming up, from painting it white, to sticking a window in, what do you think?



Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline awemawson

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #19 on: November 20, 2013, 02:49:11 PM »
Looks very good Ross, despite your modesty you must be very pleased with it.  :thumbup:

Better get them to fix that running outlet on the guttering or all your hard work will be for nothing  :bugeye:

Andrew
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Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #20 on: November 20, 2013, 04:42:56 PM »
Looks very good Ross, despite your modesty you must be very pleased with it.  :thumbup:

Better get them to fix that running outlet on the guttering or all your hard work will be for nothing  :bugeye:

Andrew

You mean that outlet which was pouring freezing rain down my neck for half a morning, you bet they need to fix it!!!

Thanks for the kind comments Andrew, I am pretty pleased with the whole job, but being a perfectionist I tend to worry more about the bits I could have done better.  Overall I'm most pleased with a lot of hard work on bits which hopefully nobody will see or notice.
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Offline tom osselton

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #21 on: November 20, 2013, 04:57:50 PM »
I like it the way it is and if I had to put a window in it I would use  stained glass in the middle triangle, maybe a coat of arms or something like a horses head seeing as it was a stable.

Offline Meldonmech

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #22 on: November 22, 2013, 04:07:53 AM »

                             Nicely restored 
                                                        Cheers David     

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #23 on: November 22, 2013, 11:04:53 AM »

                             Nicely restored 
                                                        Cheers David   

Thanks for the comment
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Offline Pete W.

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #24 on: November 22, 2013, 12:31:18 PM »
Hi there, Ross and all,

Ross, that door has turned out well.   :clap:   :clap:   :clap: 

I think any suggestions to modify it should be strenuously resisted - if you cut into the boards in that upper triangle, you'll significantly open the route to water penetration.
Best regards,

Pete W.

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Offline awemawson

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #25 on: November 22, 2013, 12:58:04 PM »
...added to which, you've striven to keep it looking original so why change it?

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #26 on: November 23, 2013, 05:48:11 AM »
Thanks Pete and Andrew

I will stick to my historical and creative integrity by coming up with an excuse to stop about now, or at least after I've sealed it in and tidied up the fitting damage.
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Offline Joules

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #27 on: November 23, 2013, 09:15:30 AM »
Ross,
       You buggered that up really nicely.... :wave:
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup:

Offline RossJarvis

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #28 on: November 24, 2013, 08:10:47 AM »
Thank you for your kind comment Joules :thumbup:.

I still have some more b*******g up to do to seal it in and tidy bits up.  I usually tell people to give praise or otherwise, when I've finished.  To my mind I've never finished a job yet, just stopped when most of it's done.  My wife tends to agree.
Procrastination; now is that an art or a craft skill?

Offline Joules

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Re: B*******g up a door and frame in a restoration stylee
« Reply #29 on: November 24, 2013, 11:16:36 AM »
LOL
      Ross your wife would agree with mine, in regards project completion.
Just get doing and make swarf, you can decide what its going to be later.   :thumbup: