Author Topic: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house  (Read 5889 times)

Offline Dawai

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12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« on: January 04, 2014, 07:39:03 AM »
OUR president Bush made filament bulbs illegal.. discontinued them.. not much luck with the expensive 120 volt LED light bulbs so far. With the 12 volt dc ones, they have been working great.

I put in a solar panel, Used this 100 watt Renogy panel, connected it to a cheap chinese battery charger-minder in the basement. It has voltage monitoring that will turn off a load if the battery goes too low. (suck the bottom from a battery and it does not last as long), A RV deep discharge battery, (largest one I could find)

Looking for lights, I first had bought 120 volt LED bulbs.. lasted less than a month. I tore it apart to see what happened. THEY..seeing each led had a 1.5 volt drop across it, had series wired them all in rails till they got to 120 volts.. trouble is, was.. if one fails they all fail.. (remember the Christmas lights of the 60s?)

My wife and I started deciding what we want in our home, (not a fancy place).
I wanted post type lamps to move around, heavy bottom, selectable diffuser, since the 48 SMD led's are so bright you see burn marks if you stare at them.. harsh light.. hard to read a book by..

I have been learning how to program a arduino, got my first one a couple weeks ago.. IT IS very easy to produce a pwm (pulse width modulated) signal..

Only problem is, not enough current to do any "real work".  SO.. enter the OLD electrician "pass transistor" thinking.. where a small transistor does not go to the load, but triggers a larger transistor..

Ran last night since dusk.. much reduced power, meaning less battery consumption. Thoughts are to monitor battery voltage, have a ac-dc pwr option also to switch to power line current.  We discussed motion timers.. too complicated.. and when I build complication in trouble arises.

Parts, (1)Arduino UNO $12-16, (2)LCDKeypad $12-20, (3)Opto22 Pb4 off ebay cheap, (4)opto22 odc5 module off ebay cheap, (5)48SMD LED array $13 for 5 off ebay. (6)EITHER a transformer-dc pwr, or a battery to drive them. 

Instead of using the keypad to vary the outputs for each room? we are thinking of using potentiometers. Just rolling the dial up and down to dim. Instead of doing lots of control wires, for right now I am going to mount them centrally over the thermostat with the control pots there. (not a big house)

If some of you guys with more experience on the arduino come up with a wireless way to talk, ie remote.. add your comments.. 

FOR you guys with less electrical experience, I can post the code and a diagram if you like.
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline Baron

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #1 on: January 04, 2014, 08:59:33 AM »
Hi Dawai,
I too like the idea of low voltage lighting and agree that a solar panel and storage battery is the way to go.  As far as dimming them goes, I agree that PWM is the way to do it.  You mentioned a pot to control the brightness,  I would simply use a 555 timer and depending upon the load, drive a mosfet.  I bet the whole thing could be built on the back of a 1" pot.

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline AdeV

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #2 on: January 04, 2014, 09:34:11 AM »
Something else to consider, as well as dimming the LEDs, you could fairly easily wire them up so you can switch banks of them off as a "stepping" dimmer - then use PWM to make each step infinitely dimmable... I think if you found that just running one 12v string of LEDs would be less power hungry than running all 10(?) strings & dimming them. Harder to wire up, of course, but all the more fun for that. By randomly placing your "string", the light would remain even, rather than being obvious strips lighting up.

Ironically, I was planning something quite similar - I bought the panel, charge controller & lights back end of last year. Unfortunately, only the panel has shown up so far, the lights are lost in our useless postal system, and the charge controller hasn't got here from China yet...
Cheers!
Ade.
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Offline awemawson

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #3 on: January 04, 2014, 09:52:10 AM »
When we refurbished our holiday cottages here on the farm, I decided to replace the spherical bayonet 240v incandescent bulbs with LED ones. It was pricey at about £4 per bulb, but long term it should save as the consumption is dramatically reduced and the paying guests inevitably leave all lights on all day when they are out  :bang:


Only problem is the failure rate. As mentioned above, they are wired internally as a string across a crude DC supply, and if one LED in the string fails the bulb is theoretically a write off. Investigation revealed that the plastic hemisphere globe pops off  releasing the pcb disc holding the leds, which are easily unsoldered and replaced. I've now got a large bag of the 'top hat' LEDs and am repairing at least one bulb every week - got it down to a fine art!

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline Dawai

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #4 on: January 04, 2014, 02:04:00 PM »
Don't throw them old LED 120-240 bulbs away, cut them apart.. figure the voltage on each panel, rewire them.

I've not lost one 12 volt one, they burn from dusk to dawn, there was a day when we didn't have sun for several days and they shut off about 4am.. (controller shuts it down) Each 48 draws .2, or 200 miliamps each at 12 volts.

THE 48 LED block is wired together, not going to disturb the wiring-board, it has a sticky tape on the back side. Comes with all kinds of bulb adapters to plug into interior lights in cars.

Last thing I built with a 556 timer, a dual 555 chip, was a tattoo machine drive-points replacer.. with the dual 555's you can alter the frequency and the pulse width.. easily.  On the tattoo rig I had one ten turn pot for each,  AT a big meet, since my tattoo machine ran 1 1/2-2 times faster than everyone elses I made more money.. and that sound, a screaming demon that made all the old tattoo artists look around and try to figure out how I ran it that fast. When the evening got slow, here they'd come, asking questions.  As far as I know, everyone still runs them with points.. it never caught on..

I have the pcb solder mask if you want to have the 556 freq-pwm board made up.. or make it yourself.. 
 I can't see to tattoo anymore, can't see some days how to solder, weld.. or..
either old age, or too many blows to the noggin. They did manage to sell me some $500 glasses.. that work somedays.. other days it is 20/20
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline awemawson

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #5 on: January 04, 2014, 02:35:22 PM »
Dawai,

Perhaps I didn't explain properly - no I'm not throwing them away, I'm replacing the individual LEDS as they fail !!!!!!

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline chipenter

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #6 on: January 04, 2014, 03:09:41 PM »
I have set up my workshop with downlight L E D's after an inishal failure becaus of overheating behind diffusers , had no probs after removing the diffusers for over a year now .
Jeff

Offline Dawai

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #7 on: January 04, 2014, 06:01:59 PM »
Sorry Andrew.. sometimes the speed-reading kicks me in the butt. If I get distracted, or.... My eyes keep going, my brain changes channels. My wife and large dog "WILL NOT" be ignored.  Good attention thou, I have not been lonely in a long time.

I've never gotten over Tesla's single transformer lighting.. for a whole building..
RF.  I worry about "HF radar" waves cooking my internals.
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline ibuildstuff4u

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #8 on: January 04, 2014, 11:55:31 PM »
"OUR president Bush made filament bulbs illegal.. discontinued them.."

My jaw dropped when I first heard about this until I realized that halogen bulbs do not apply and they are one of the recommended replacements for incandescent bulbs.  I think most of us already use halogen bulbs in our house verses the cheap incandescent bulbs so it ended up not being a big deal to me.  Now if they got rid of halogen bulbs and your only replacement was compact florecent or LED then I would have a big problem with that as both bulbs have some issues that still need to be worked out before they could be the only choice in lighting.

Dale P

Offline ibuildstuff4u

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2014, 12:08:12 AM »
My parents replaced ALL of their light bulbs with LED last year and have had really good luck with the Cree brand of bulbs. They gave me one as a stocking stuffer for christmas and I put it in the living room.  There are two other lamps in the room and the LED bulb looks just like the other halogen lamps.  Same amount of light and the same color.  You would never guess that one of them is LED.  The package claims a warranty of 10 years 25,000 hours.  I plan to buy some more next month and will save the receipt and will send them in if there are any issues.  They cost around $13.00 each so they better last so I can get my money back out of them.

My parents were able to see a big difference in their electric bill when they switched to the LED lights They claim that they bulbs will pay them back in the first year but I didn't crunch any numbers my self.

Dale P.

Offline BillTodd

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2014, 06:03:20 AM »
With led and lp flourescent  it is very important to ensure the lamp is kept cool. Tungsten lamps will run fine even when extremely hot so many light fittings provide little or no cooling air flow.

The electronics in led and  lpf (including the leds themselves) lamps will fail  very quickly above about 70C.  Even though they arevery efficient they can over heat in an enclosed fitting.

Bill
Bill

Offline AdeV

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2014, 07:14:23 AM »
Halogen bulbs are also filament bulbs IIRC. They won't make much difference to your electricity consumption, that I am aware of. Over here in Blighty, 100 watt filament bulbs are no longer available, I think 60 watt bulbs are, and 40w definitely are.

Over here, the "preferred" replacements are CFLs (compact flourescent) - ghastly things. As someone once said, when you first turn them on you get all the light of a candle shining through a bowl of piss (nice turn of phrase)... I hate the things. They don't come close to their claimed 10 year lifespan either, but if you look closely, that turns out to be if you're using them for about 30-60 minutes per day. Some duty cycle...

LED bulbs I think are the future. I changed out my 6 50watt downlighters in the kitchen, for 6 6watt LED replacements. It's hard to tell if I get more light than I should have had before (as 3 of the halogens were out), but I certainly have plenty of light now with all 6 running. And the total load is just 36watts - less than running just 1 halogen...  I put them in about 6 months ago, and so far they're all doing great guns.

FWIW, I think LED lights are the future. CFLs will fall by the wayside, as will incandescents; the only bork factor is the cost, and once we're buying these things by the million, the price will come way down.
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline Dawai

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2014, 07:41:18 AM »
Found a roll of 4c 28ga phone cord. Not perfect.. but do-able.
I've been tidying up around the shop for house-shop insurance photos, moved several tons of old hot rod parts by myself by hand.. won't be climbing through the attic today I think.  I can remember being beat up and not hurting as bad. we all remember how tough we used to be thou.

Unit running off the opto22 module ran all night again, I simply found the positive direction going through the transistor module, then wired a switch leg up to the LED light, cut the positive, put one switch leg one side, other on other side.

Funny.. it is a sinking negative signal, there is positive all the time on the module from a wall-transformer dc supply.. The arduino does not produce enough power to flip the module without putting the 5vdc onto the terminals.
  Because it is negative sinking logic, the 0-255 is reversed, it is seeing the other side of the waveform..lower side... lower the pwm frequency to (0) and the light gets brighter, raise the pwm to 255 (max) and it gets a dim, almost gone state.  Since I am useless for anything else today, I'll put the fluke 77 meter inline and see what the frequency to current changes are.
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline Dawai

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2014, 07:40:54 PM »
THE wind is howling here.
Adding another operation for this unit, (been in operation now three days)

Alternator wind charging? Everyone seems to be swapping out the exciter coils for permenant magnets? WHY that locks the unit up unless the wind blows strongly.
More intelligent would be to leave the alternator alone, let it come up to speed in light wind, then apply exciter coil voltage, slowing, stealing the inertia off the prop, charging the battery. So, along with the voltage monitor it is just a few more lines of logic.  THE wind turbine-generator will be another post.

I just purchased another 20 smd arrays lights.
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline Baron

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #14 on: January 08, 2014, 03:49:21 PM »

LED bulbs I think are the future. I changed out my 6 50watt downlighters in the kitchen, for 6 6watt LED replacements. It's hard to tell if I get more light than I should have had before (as 3 of the halogens were out), but I certainly have plenty of light now with all 6 running. And the total load is just 36watts - less than running just 1 halogen...  I put them in about 6 months ago, and so far they're all doing great guns.

FWIW, I think LED lights are the future. CFLs will fall by the wayside, as will incandescents; the only bork factor is the cost, and once we're buying these things by the million, the price will come way down.

I agree with you 100%.  I've just been out and bought 6 cool white GU10 replacement LED bulbs for our kitchen.  These are to be used to replace a 6ft 80w florescent.  The holders and fittings were bought in France last year for the princely sum of 6Euro.  I've already replaced the three in the bathroom and I just need one GU11 to go into the shower light fitting.  It seems that 12 volt ones are quite scarce.

Best Regards:
                     Baron

Offline TLGriff

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #15 on: January 08, 2014, 07:19:05 PM »
LED's are definitely the lighting of the future.

I'm in the process of converting the lighting in my home over to LED's and my latest victim was the energy sucking 500 watt halogen torchiere floor lamp in the living room. LED's typically have around a 50,000 hour lifetime as long as they stay cool, so the first order of business was to make a heat sink capable of keeping the beastly 100W LED comfortable. There are extruded heat sinks available, but I of course I wasn't able to find one that met my requirements so it was out to the shop. The stock was parted from a 6.50 piece of round aluminum and a mandrel pressed into one side to mount in the dividing head, then using a 3/32" x 5" slitting saw I proceeded to cut the 45 fins. This was one of those projects that didn't seemed pretty simple and straight forward at the start, but ended up taking around 3 hours to finish. The finished lamp puts out about 9000 lumens of light, which is similar the 500 watt halogen, but without the fire hazard, and it does it on 1/5 the power. The light of the "warm white" array had a slight green hue to it, so I added a magenta, or minus green gel filter to correct it. Now it looks just like the halogen and I think even puts out a bit more light. At least I don't have to worry about burning the house down.

Tom






Offline AdeV

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #16 on: January 09, 2014, 01:01:02 PM »
Flippin 'eck, a 100W LED? I'm surprised it's not burning holes in the ceiling in that uplighter!

I worked out that the 48-element SMD panels I have are using 4W each... I have 20 of them so I guess I could almost match your single bulb!
Cheers!
Ade.
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Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Offline TLGriff

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #17 on: January 09, 2014, 01:06:40 PM »
Surprisingly, you can hold your hand a couple inches above the array without issue. Try that with a halogen and you'd be smelling bacon.

Tom

Offline awemawson

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #18 on: January 09, 2014, 03:11:15 PM »
Surprisingly, you can hold your hand a couple inches above the array without issue. Try that with a halogen and you'd be smelling bacon.

Tom

Are you saying that my friend Tom is a Pig  :ddb:

oink oink

Andrew
Andrew Mawson
East Sussex

Offline TLGriff

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #19 on: January 09, 2014, 03:21:40 PM »
Yuk, yuk, yuk.  :clap:

Offline ieezitin

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #20 on: January 09, 2014, 07:15:53 PM »
Guys,

This is a subject that’s close to my heart. I have been planning a wind / solar project for my farm for about 2 years now and I am on the verge of starting it.
My research has led me down many avenues and I believe I have the right combination on what I am trying to achieve, this thread is exactly where I ended up on what at this point in time is the most viable way of doing things.

Dawai….. permanent magnet generators seem to be the way to go, you mentioned they stick please clarify your find, all my research points to  PMG motors that produce 3 phase current are more efficient because of the magnet configuration and the 3 phase AC current produced is  the simplest way to transmit electrical current through a narrow gage wire making it less expensive, another advantage of the PMG is that you can regulate its field as to use it as a (over –ride) ran-away effect on the blade so the turbine does not spin so fast.

The voltage regulator / rectifiers are so cheap now less than $30.00 for that, Dump load switches are about the same if you need them. AC/DC rectifiers are around $110.00, that steps you up to stuff you have in the house
.
A 1KW wind turbine with blades will cost around $500.00 off the internet from one or two companies, with enough research you could make your own for around $350.00, but you would have to make the blades and other fixtures, in my research it’s just as viable to purchase the package from the net, A note here is that Carbon fiber for the blades is the only way to go, PVC or any other micky mouse material will likely fail. 

So far Deep cycle Batteries are still a large financial investment, but by what I have read with care and proper protection these pieces of infrastructure will last many years through protection means and care.

I have seen on Amazon 800Watt solar panels sell for $180.00, so coupled with wind there is no reason why the average person cannot replace the lighting and small appliance energy need to all there home for around $1100.00.
 
60Ft if the golden height for a turbine, I will be making one very soon and I will make a build log of it, its not hard to make a tower.

LED is a vital key to all what I have mentioned to make self-generated power viable, the high output to low power usage and easily power transformation makes this well within reach of regular people.


Anthony..
If you cant fix it, get another hobby.

Offline Dawai

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #21 on: January 09, 2014, 08:24:52 PM »
Have you seen the "SINGLE" wing generator pump over from India?? it swings, wig-wag back and forth even in a low wind..

My thoughts on the exciter coils fired by a micro-controller.  (unmodified guaranteed forever from local auto parts)  You can apply +8hp to the alternator to brake it in high wind.   DUMP the generated power into a resistor-heater, inside if it is winter time, outside if summer.

My favorite type of wind turbine is a vawt, sails, but they are noisy..  thought is to mount a FWD car hub, disc, disc brake on top of a pole, let the driveshaft come down to ground level and belt drive the alternator. Still working out details.. I live on top of a ridge where the wind howls, and the temperature is 3-4 degrees lower than the low-landers.

Anyways, I am still remodeling the house, workshop trying to keep homeowners insurance.. horrible..

THE LED's I bought, for a auto, sticky back tape on one side, $2 each..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-12V-Car-48-SMD-White-LED-Light-Panel-T10-Festoon-Ba9s-Dome-USA-Ship-/300743649836?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4605b7ea2c&vxp=mtr

We have two rooms illuminated by LED's, very happy, one room I used a globe white fixture with two LED arrays in it, wonderful.. not as much light as the incandescent bulbs in the ceiling fans, but more than enough to use.
I Hung a 24 foot Ibeam this morning in the ceiling by myself, programmed a Arduino this afternoon for a solar project, Helped a buddy out with a electrical motor connection issue on the phone, then cut up a chicken for Hotwings. I'd say it has been a "blessed day" for myself and all those around me.

Offline AdeV

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Re: 12 volt LED lighting throughout house
« Reply #22 on: January 10, 2014, 10:17:20 AM »

THE LED's I bought, for a auto, sticky back tape on one side, $2 each..

http://www.ebay.com/itm/5x-12V-Car-48-SMD-White-LED-Light-Panel-T10-Festoon-Ba9s-Dome-USA-Ship-/300743649836?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item4605b7ea2c&vxp=mtr

We have two rooms illuminated by LED's, very happy, one room I used a globe white fixture with two LED arrays in it, wonderful.. not as much light as the incandescent bulbs in the ceiling fans, but more than enough to use.

They're exactly the little fellas I bought for a fairly similar price here in the uK (£30 for 20). My charge controller has also shown up, so I pan to do some experiments tomorrow (would have been today, but there's only an hour of daylight left - I hate winter in Northern Europe).



My favorite type of wind turbine is a vawt, sails, but they are noisy..  thought is to mount a FWD car hub, disc, disc brake on top of a pole, let the driveshaft come down to ground level and belt drive the alternator. Still working out details.. I live on top of a ridge where the wind howls, and the temperature is 3-4 degrees lower than the low-landers.


Check out this guy's VAWT which he built over a bulldozer: http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=59.90

Unfortunately, we never got right to the end of the project, as he got distracted by building a massive HAWT instead.... http://www.microcogen.info/index.php?topic=2870.0
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
Skype: adev73