Vertical slide question for Mr John B. Standard..

[John Hill]

John, you might have seen I asked on the Chester site about their vertical slide, have you seen one? 

Any comments?  Apart from the obvious ones like I should be saving up for a real mill.

Everything else is available here but the only vertical slides I have seen been offered for sale have been old ones in on-line auctions.

The Artful Bodger.

[bogstandard]

John,

There are two main issues you should be looking at when fitting one to our type of lathe.

The first, and major one is that because we don't have a slotted cross slide, the cross slide will need to be either drilled or machined to accept the vertical slide. Not a thing I would like to do. I have already asked the question about slots, but after having a good look at it while it was off, there isn't really enough meat on it to put a decent slot in there.

You cannot mount it where the topslide fits as that will not give you enough movement in the Y axis to get the full functionality and versatility of the vertical slide. You could make an extender plate, as I am doing with my ball turner, that utilises the topslide mounting bolts, and move the operating centre across by about 75mm to 100mm. It would need to be fairly substantial in it's thickness to take the stresses of cutting, say 12mm or thicker steel plate.

I have just been out to my shop and set up my plate to show you what I am on about. See attached pics. Mine is in ali because it will only be taking fine cuts. It still needs a cross slot putting in, to clear the ball oilers.

The other is that if you do get one, make sure it has a rotating base, it looks like the large one from Chester has some functionality in that department, but I can't tell for sure from the pic.

Here is the type you should be looking for, but unfortunately, they are out of stock. As you can see, it also has a slotted face for versatility. But because it is designed for a Myford, it might have imperial graduations. Maybe an email could clear up when they will be back in stock and what the dial graduations are in. But you would need to fit a vice as well. The Chester one has some sort of excuse for one already on theirs.

http://www.rdgtools.co.uk/cgi-bin/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2frdgtools%2eco%2euk%2f&WD=vertical%20slide&PN=MYFORD_LATHE_USERS_NEW1%2ehtml%23a007#a007

or

http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/cgi-local/sh000001.pl?REFPAGE=http%3a%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2findex%2ehtml%3fhttp%253A%2f%2fwww%2echronos%2eltd%2euk%2facatalog%2fcatalogbody%2ehtml%26CatalogBody&WD=vertical%20slide&PN=Myford_Lathe_Compatible_Acessories%2ehtml%23aSVMS#aSVMS


I hope this has helped you in some way

John

[sbwhart]

John H

I Bought one of those vertical slides from RDG to suplement the milling on my 3 in 1:- the lathe bit was great, but the milling had a lot to be desired. the vertical slide did improve my milling but at the end of the day a proper mill is a lot better, easier to use and set up.

Having said that I think there would still be aplication wher the vertical slide would be usfull.

Cheers

Stew

[John Hill]

Thanks for the advice guys.  It looks like the Chronos one for Myford at
http://www.chronos.ltd.uk/acatalog/Myford_Lathe_Compatible_Acessories.html would be the one, except that shipping would be 48 quid!

John, I suppose the cross slide has at least enough beef to allow drilling and tapping a few holes?

Meanwhile I have a rather crappy X/Y table  which I am considering mounting to the travel steady position which would give the basic, but non swiveling, function without involving the cross slide.  Then I think the X/Y table is really too crappy to even try.

[bogstandard]

John,

There is enough metal to drill and tap the top face, but that would be your decision not mine.


John

[John Hill]

John,

There is enough metal to drill and tap the top face, but that would be your decision not mine.


John

Aw gee John, I was gonna invite you over for a beer one afternoon and tell you to bring your taps!

[bogstandard]

Sorry such a terse reply John, trying to catch up a bit before it gets too late.

Couldn't have an afternoon power nap because the witch from next door came visiting, so feeling a lot tired and grumpy.

Let us know how you decide to proceed, and if you are paying for the air fair, I don't mind a few days out visiting, to drill and tap a few holes, but I can't drink the beer.

John

[John Hill]

Oh, I think you misunderstand me John, I did not take your response as at all terse, sorry I came across that way.   And our beer is not so bad, we can even warm it up for you if you like!   (On a more serious note, I can not drink much beer myself nowadays and I guess some of the treatments I have had in the last few years have long term effects.)

Having endured several trips to the antipodes (UK and Europe that is) I would not wish a return visit on anyone!  Thirty or more hours sitting in the one chair (which for most people is far too small for them), watching about 6 movies, eating 5 breakfasts, two dinners and a couple of lunches is not my idea of fun.  One trip I did to Prague was 46 hours door to door.   But if you are ever tempted just bear in mind that Los Angeles, or Singapore, are not even half way to where I live!


Realisticly, I expect not much will come of my musings regarding vertical slides.  I seem to spend a lot of time thinking about cheap ways to do things then wind up either doing nothing or buying the real thing.  The only reason I wound up with this 'big' lathe is because I had a feeling that the similiar priced lathe/mill combinations were probably neither a good lathe nor a good mill.

[bogstandard]

John,

I bought 18 cans of beer at New Year, there are 16 left, and I could only manage 1/2 a can before throwing it away, my mate had the other one. So if anyone visits, there is beer here, it might be a bit out of date, but who is worried about dates on a can.

The way I showed with the plate, IMHO is the way to try things like this out. Can be chopped and changed about to get the right position without any damage to the lathe at all. A bit of plate must be cheaper than a new cross slide.

I think I have explained before about why I chose this lathe, it was basically the largest one I could fit into the space I had, plus with it being a new model based on a 15 year or so old design, there couldn't be much wrong with it mechanically, as they should have sorted those out years ago. What I didn't realise was that it wasn't the old design that caused any problems, but the 'new' bits they fitted to bring it up to date. Mainly chuck guard, coiled leadscrew cover, DRO head fitment and Chesters own conversion to double the range of spindle speeds the machine had.

After a few months of gentle persuasion from myself, the leadscrew cover was removed and a new, much larger chuck guard was fitted at their factory (to a new lathe, which was then swapped with my old one, which also had a few manufacturing faults). All problems have now been addressed except for the drive belt swapover. That will eventually be remedied when I can get welding facilities organised to weld up the tension system I have designed for for belt swapping (a thing that is not required on your machine).

Once that mod has been done, apart from making sure the threading is up to scratch, this machine will be, for me, the dogs dangly bits. More accurate, powerful and easy to use than anything I envisioned I would ever need.

So I hope you can now realise, after getting the machine to such a good state, I am very reluctant to drill holes willy nilly all over it, and is why I attempt to stop people doing the same things to their machines, by suggesting other methods to do the job.

If I do a mod on this lathe, it has to work first time, if I can't guarantee that to myself, it doesn't get done.

I use that rule for all my machines, and any I work on.

You have basically the same machine as I have, and even though you bought it as a 'second thought', you have in your possession, IMHO, a lathe, that if looked after, will satisfy all your needs, and last you a lifetime.

Now is the time for my power nap, might be surfing again about 3am BST.

John

[John Hill]

Understand perfectly regarding drilling holes etc in the machine, so far I have managed to get the cable DROs on and a couple of little things like my 'improved' compound holding bolts (that dont need a spanner) etc and the closest I have come to 'butchery' was to put a very heavy downward force on the outlet of the chip/drip pan so that the coolant can find its way home.

I didnt get a lead screw cover though it would be nice when doing 'dirty' jobs like I was yesterday turning some kafeka  (tropical hardwood from the island of Niue where I used to live in the early 70s) however a plastic wash-up brush soon got all that crud off the lead screw.

All things considered I am now looking at these :

my thinking is that by making a vertical plate which will attach to the travel steady mount and be braced back to the cross slide (maybe utilising the tool post mount)  I would have X,Y and Z. But no swivel though I could get some vertical swivel by making a swivel attachment to my mounting plate.   The 'table' would be mounted with the single handle uppermost, that would give me be 125mm vertical and 200 horizontal movement.  The lathe cross slide would not do anything. 

Seems the best idea so far and would cost just a little under a hundred quid and would not require any alteration to the as yet virgin lathe, but I am still thinking.  I am also telling myself that the compound table would also be useful if/when I ever get a real mill.

I must remember next time I buy a 'slab' of beer to send half to you as your rate of consumption is about the same as mine.

Have a good kip John.

[John Hill]

After embarking on my search for a vertical slide, then compound table, I was offered this:

.. for about 160 quid, not much more than a vertical slide would cost if I had to have it sent to NZ.

Specs:
Bench mounted with five speeds.
-416 to 2756 r.p.m.
-16mm chuck - No.2 ST3
-Cross feed: 190mm
-Forward and back: 90mm
-Motor size: 1/2 h.p.
-Size: 800H x 700W x 700mD
-Nett weight: 70kg


Oh dear, decisions decisions....

[bogstandard]

Hi John,

I think we have discussed drilling machines being used as mills on here a while back.

It looks like a drilling machine with a very basic X, Y table fitted. Although it does look as though it might be intended for basic milling, as it has a semblance of a quill lock.

To even contemplate using it as a basic mill, you will have to lift the belt change lid, and see if it has a drawbar.

If it hasn't got one, or no way of fitting one, then it cannot be used as a mill, in fact it would be classed as dangerous to be used as such, the reason being, if it has an MT fitting that cannot be locked in with a drawbar, the fitting can be snatched out of the quill whilst milling, and bits of tooling can fly all over the place when it starts to break up. One of the reasons as well for using a proper milling collet chuck instead of a drill chuck. A drill chuck can easily be snatched off it's taper, with the same consequences.

So before committing yourself John, check out what I have mentioned first.

Not doing too well here are we, getting you on the road to milling.

I am only trying to help prevent you from wasting your hard earned cash.

John

[John Hill]

John, that is exactly why I share my ideas and often rather confused thoughts on subjects such as this!

I did lift the belt lid and felt the top of the shaft, it did feel to be hollow but its of rather small diameter, maybe only 10mm with four splines on it.  Certainly a very valid point for me to explore further.

I can get something that looks more like a 'real mill' for three times the price (which is not really impossible for me) though I had not anticipated spending that much so soon.  The one I thought might be within my reach is this one.

http://www.thetoolshed.co.nz/products2/?op=viewDetails&pid=139

[sbwhart]

Thats More Like it John 

What you need from a milling machine is HP and weight and that seems to have it.

Stew

[bogstandard]

John,

That one is a nice beast, I used one just like it for many years until I upgraded to my latest one. The one Darren has just obtained is the same type.

There are a few little quirky bits in their operation, but if you can live with them, they are in fact almost bomb proof.

Don't forget to add in the cost of basic tooling. That could be a rather high figure, so it might mean you saving your pennies a bit longer before going for it.

But don't discount the drill one just yet. A little more detective work might find it will do the job. An MT2 takes a 10mm drawbar normally, so your finger test just might show that it can take a drawbar. Time to start asking a few more questions. The lack of accurate scales might be able to be solved with the use of a few cheapo digital scales.

John

[Darren]

The second one is very similar to what I have just bought John. I have to say I'm very pleased with it.

My first mill was similar, but I just couldn't get on with it. Funny really, almost the same but nothing like each other.
I think with mills the bigger the better, really depends on your budget.

[John Hill]

Thanks guys, the sensible thing as always appears to be to spend all the money or none at all!!

Meanwhile I have been downstairs doing some 'milling' on the little Adept shaper,  cutting some .8mm deep groves that are 3/8" wide in some pieces of aluminium as spacers for the little 3/8" lathe tools I have for 'fine' work.  The little shaper worked a treat so maybe I can bear to be without a mill for a little longer.

Still, I will be looking at the drill/mill again.  My existing drill is a little knackered, it is Chinese and about 25 years old.  It is not big enough for some of the things I do and when the drill tip touches the work any downward pressure lifts the spindle/head and puts the drill off line!  So the next question is how well do the bigger Mill/Drills operate as a drill?  Any pros and cons in that regard?

[Darren]

All pro's and no cons as a drilling machine John, in fact my pillar drill is still in pieces since I moved 18mths ago.

I might as well let it go....

[John Hill]

Thanks Darren, being able to retire this little drill has to be part of the plan if I am going to go to a new machine instead of the original idea of a vertical slide etc.   Hey maybe I can put the cone pulleys on my lathe and have 45 spindle speeds!

[Bernd]

Took a look at the company site of the machines you are looking at John.

The one that looks to be a drill press I would have to call a jig bore. Usally these are not used to mill anything but are used to drill a pattern of holes to precsion positions. Yet from what I see in the picture it has no scales on the hand wheels. I may be wrong.

You also mentioned that you felt splines in the hole of the spindle. It would be my guess that drill does not have a through hole to hold any tooling.

I'm with Bogs on getting the round column mill. My dad has a Grizzly that he's had from many years and it has given good sevice for all those years and is accurate enough. It seems all these mills are the same with just different paint and minor options for each brand. So I'd say save your money and get a machine designed for milling.

Regards,
Bernd

[John Hill]

Thanks Bernd, I expect you are right on all counts.