Author Topic: help with workshop layout  (Read 4724 times)

Offline bertie_bassett

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help with workshop layout
« on: May 12, 2014, 07:06:13 AM »
hi all

am attempting to get my workshop in order and need some design input from the experts

currently it looks like this


first plan is to obviously clear the clutter but after that i need more workbench space and ideally a desk area for soldering and electronics.
also at some point in the future ( if i can ever find one) ill have a mill in there, centec 2a sort of size
oh and iv got no heating, so was thinking maby a stove - could also double up for light metal work?


its a fair size workshop 7x3 m so should be plenty of room, but i seem to have filled it already :doh:
its got plenty of 240v sockets, though ill probably move them around and add more in time, and iv put a sink in, though no running water yet.

heres a plan of it as it stands



i was thinking of a 1.5m square bench on the left under the windows, but then realised i wouldnt be able to reach the back and it encroached on the floor space too much. so that plan is out the window.
im now thinking of an l shaped bench 1m deep running under the window, with a built in oil catch tank/bund  for oily stuff  like bike engines

theres also the issue of where do i put a mill?

soo..  whos got some ideas?

a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline Arbalist

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #1 on: May 12, 2014, 12:38:00 PM »

Offline Jonny

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #2 on: May 12, 2014, 03:29:25 PM »
Similar to mine and you wouldn't believe what I have in.

Natural light is the best so base what you intend doing a lot of using that light.
Mill and lathe will benefit as well with natural light but at same time get them nearer a door or exit so easier to sweep debris up.
Another method is where would you be happiest beavering away with the most widely used tool/s. Have them around you and heater not too far off.

Recently got rid of one mill but have Centec size opposite wall to the M300 with massive splashback.
Most of my work is mill and lathe with barely any more than a few steps needed for all tools needed for both.

Quicker to find and retrieve on wall racks, have three pretty much all the way round perimeter with cutouts for mill and pipework.

Log burner or similar maybe better by door as well. Need massive space to dry out and keep stuff for burning it don't last long.
I use thermostatic 3kw oil filled rad and or the calor gas for instant heat. Never any rust accumulation in fact got some last week from the caustic soda.


Good to see built in work surface not only does it strengthen up the building, any vice is substantially held when screwed to the walls.
Great to see someone at last taking iniative by using the space under the work surface. I have two compressors, metals, mig, cnc lathe, calor gas heater, soluable and hydraulic every day canned oils plus junk.

Offline bertie_bassett

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #3 on: May 12, 2014, 05:17:39 PM »
cheers for the ideas so far

the workshop was build by the previous owner who was supposedly a carpenter, though sometimes i doubt that

im thinking i may cut out some of the benches down near the lathe to put the mill as they will be best together and these are the tools i hope to use the most.

i think heating is going to be an issue as although the shed is plaster boarded, it has no insulation so got chilly and damp last winter.

oh and i cant put anything heavy in the corner to the left of the lathe as the concrete is rubbish and has sunk a bit

a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline John Hill

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #4 on: May 12, 2014, 10:28:12 PM »
I did not like the idea of machines backing against a wall as there is always a need to get to the back of them some time or other, to clean and to maybe make adjustments so I made a table in the middle of my small shop and put the machines on there back to back which I figured saves a lot of space. 

That also saves maximum wall space for cupboards and other storage.







I now have a lathe, cold cut saw, drill press and little shaper on the bench, it is snug but they do not interfere with each other.

From the den of The Artful Bodger

Offline flutedchamber

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #5 on: May 12, 2014, 11:23:23 PM »
I used the Grizzly workshop planner when I laid out my shop.  It helped quite a bit.

http://www.grizzly.com/workshopplanner

Offline Jonny

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #6 on: May 13, 2014, 06:26:44 AM »
Nice work shop that John, wish I had that much room without extending.

Think the key is to build or base the most used machines around available lighting with quick access to tools for that machine ie overhead racks.

All benches made to fit around mill, lathe and a special cabinet from 2x1" SHS with kitchen work surface.

Some years back mines probably only 8ft 6" wide, mill on right with M300 to left out of picky. Propane moved left side of lathe and Calor gas heater sits nicely under bench in that space.
Easy to junk the swarf as well, bring wheelie bin to door and fork it in bin then straight forward spade and broom.

About 2hrs worth there 1 1/2 wheelie bins compressed. Make provision for swarf disposal, it will drive you mad, I just get my hands in back splash and grab arm fulls and sling by door every 10 mins.

Probably only got around 2ft 10" between lathe and mill minus handles. Point being the lights poorer further down I go and wouldn't feel like doing anything if positioned there. It makes a difference.

Offline Arbalist

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #7 on: May 13, 2014, 07:30:38 AM »
Much depends on the size and shape of your workshop. Having said that everywhere I've worked had machinery along the walls with only easy to move things like benches in the middle. My workshop is only going to be 3 x 5 metres so having stuff in the middle will just get in the way. I had my lathe against the window in my old workshop and I really liked having natural light on the work. It was also nice to look out into the garden as well at times. I should add (before some numpty finds a high horse to get on) that if I found anything really interesting happening in the garden I'd shut the lathe off! As a result of this both my mill and lathe will be near windows. I expect to fit blinds as well at some point.

Offline bertie_bassett

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #8 on: May 13, 2014, 04:17:03 PM »
that workshop planner looks handy thanks!

got more things to think about now though, think ill move that lathe as need to get in behind it if the shearpin goes!

seems whenever i think iv got a plan in my head, somthing else comes along to alter things! :bang:
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline Jonny

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #9 on: May 13, 2014, 04:49:04 PM »
You could easily slide that lathe away from a wall Berty.

Downside to positioning near a window is no access to wall racks behind.
I would be lost without my 24 QR tool holders, drill chucks, MT3 drills etc all no further than a stretch away.
Table or work surface by the side is good. My tail stock end butts up to a 90 degree work surface/bench, other end 2ft clear to get round to electrics and prise out from wall with a 5ft crow bar.
Might want to think about long lengths through headstock, maybe mill to the left so material could be swung over bed?

Offline Arbalist

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #10 on: May 13, 2014, 05:24:07 PM »
There was a thread on one of the forums about a serious accident a Lathe operator suffered whilst reaching for tooling located behind the Lathe. I'll try and find it, but for what it's worth I agree that it's a really poor idea to put tooling there.

Update. Here it is:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f40/lathe-accident-tool-organizer-bad-idea-13762/

Offline bertie_bassett

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #11 on: May 13, 2014, 05:33:19 PM »
Quote
You could easily slide that lathe away from a wall Berty.

thats what i did last time, had to unbolt from floor then swivel lathe out with a crowbar, is a pain in the backside though . i did wonder about cutting a hatch through the wall to access from outside!

re putting the mill in the left corner, im concerned the concrete wont take a mill, that corner has already cracked and subsided, i think the weight of a mill may cause issues. though i can cross that bridge when i come to it
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #12 on: May 14, 2014, 07:55:35 AM »
I have a normal garage, that has a double doors at the other end and normal door athe othe other end. This allows me stuff the posessions on this principle:
* I keep all long bars, angle irons and such next to double doors, because I unload them form drive way side.
* I also use grinding machine and welder on this "dirty" side.
* I have 6 kg fire extinquishers at the both end. I would hate to run out before having a chance of dousing content of 6 kg extinquisher on possible fire. Nearby is fire station that has family day and my wife and daughter practices with me one day every autum.
* At the other 2/3 garage it is the "clean" side that houses lathes and a milling machine. The milling machine is at furthest away in the corner and it's heaviest at about 1500 kg mut it hasn't moved in years and that is the least obstructive place.

In between I have a band saw and trolley type toolchest and few heavy objects on dollys. I have to move them around ocassionally, but this aragement allows me to work most of the time all doors closed. Pretty handy in winter.

This is my way of working, smaller or bigger machines and samller or bigger work might change priorities. Also if I didn't have the other exit, I probably would do all the hot work and dirty stuff at the dead end, just to make sure that I can get out of there at any eventuality.

I tried to do woodworkking and metal workking on the same space some years and it did not work for me. But maybe it is just the scale of things.

Pekka

Offline Jonny

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #13 on: May 14, 2014, 08:16:40 PM »
There was a thread on one of the forums about a serious accident a Lathe operator suffered whilst reaching for tooling located behind the Lathe. I'll try and find it, but for what it's worth I agree that it's a really poor idea to put tooling there.

Update. Here it is:

http://www.homemodelenginemachinist.com/f40/lathe-accident-tool-organizer-bad-idea-13762/

Sorry but in that respect deserves everything he got.
Common sense.
Nothing wrong with racking above and behind

Offline RussellT

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #14 on: May 15, 2014, 04:39:46 AM »
Common sense.

The trouble with common sense is that it's not as common as it's name suggests.

Russell

Offline Arbalist

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #15 on: May 15, 2014, 07:38:03 AM »
Nothing wrong with racking above and behind

We'll have to agree to disagree on that one.

Offline bertie_bassett

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #16 on: May 15, 2014, 08:58:48 AM »
well iv had a play about with plans and am heading back toward my origional thought



though im not sure ill be able to reach all the way to the back of the taller bench, so maby ill make it 1m wide then put the oil catch tank (gridded section) as an island at the end?

think the best place for the mill will be that top left corner, will just have to repair the floor first.
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline garym

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #17 on: May 15, 2014, 06:45:37 PM »
I wouldn't have bothered with the sink. It's taking up valuable workshop space.  :)

Gary
Workshop activity resumes now ankle improving :-)

Offline PekkaNF

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #18 on: May 16, 2014, 03:17:48 AM »
Looks good to me....but...getting the mill and lathe that close to each others really depends what kind of machines they are and what size of work you do.

Mill - do you need an acess on right side of the mill? I have a big knee mill and I only cram stuff on castors that close to mill. I have one rack with boxes on left hand side on the wall and toolchest on castors. On right hand side I have toolboxes or such I can move out of the way when I plan to use milling machine. I have a milling machine on the corner and that is best place for it in my situation, because the milling machine is pretty deep and would take up too much space if placed along the wall.

Lathe - where are maintenence points - can you maintain the lahe or is it such small that you can take it sout the nook?
* I often I run long rods trough the spindle of the lathe. I need some space to quide the rod trough and some structure to support the rod and prevent whipping. Milling machine could hinder or assist here.
* Do you have space to take tail stock away? I need to do that fairly often. Then again, if the lathe stand is tall enough this should be no problem.

Sink is great. There is all kind of uses to it. Wish it would have self acting trashflap, oil separor and such :D

Just few toughts. You probably have considered these, but just in case.

Pekka

Offline bertie_bassett

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #19 on: May 16, 2014, 03:17:06 PM »
iv not got a mill yet, so no idea exactly what space it will need, but should be ok there i think, i can shift the lathe to the right if needed.

the lathes spindle only has a 20mm bore so i doubt ill have a huge amount sticking out that end, everything bar the shearpin for the feed shaft is accesible as it is, so ill just have to move the lathe if/when i need to get to that bit.

hopefully i can get the floor space clear this weekend and try to build something!
a competent engineer uses the tools and knowledge available, to get a challenging job done.

 An incompetent "engineer" tells his boss that the existing equipment "can't do the job" and to get another machine

Offline beeshed

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Re: help with workshop layout
« Reply #20 on: May 17, 2014, 06:16:05 AM »
Wish I had a sink in the workshop - so often want to wash something or get water etc.
I suggest lathe, mill and 3ft bench down the middle facing the existing bench. Then when working you have somewhere right behind you for the measuringequipment and  tools etc. You need to maximise storage and the top 2ft of a wall mostly gets wasted. You can't put a shelf above a lathe or mill or very easily in the middle of the room so that becomes a good place for the machines.

If you need the 3ft bench for engines it is better in the middle where you can get all round.
Otherwise any bench more than 18in deep just attracts junk at the back so suggest electrical / writing bench 18 in deep under window. Natural light is over rated unles you are retired or work nights. Always dark when I get home.
If you can get to a Costco they do a heavy duty shelf set 80inx24inx72 high that is rated for a ton and costs less than the angle iron it contains.
For others concentrating on big stuff you need to include crane space for lifting big chucks and big projects.