Author Topic: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order  (Read 21347 times)

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #25 on: May 30, 2014, 11:55:05 AM »

I'm guessing I'd need to keep 1.25"  of meat at the bottom to give room from the spring clip and adjuster. That'll leave 1.75" to centre allowing a 3.5" maximum dia wheel. That would be a substantial wheel. Length wise, at 175mm - that's just short of 8" - having 1.5" sides also would give a distance of 5", about 100mm maximum distance between runners I.e max pivot size. Any thoughts?
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Online tom osselton

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #26 on: May 30, 2014, 03:22:21 PM »
So why can't the hinge part of this just be a piano hinge all it does is open up.? The acuracy to me would be in the shaft suports and if there is enough room to drill and ream for the spring tension in the shaft to hold the gears.

Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #27 on: May 30, 2014, 03:54:44 PM »
So why can't the hinge part of this just be a piano hinge all it does is open up.? The acuracy to me would be in the shaft suports and if there is enough room to drill and ream for the spring tension in the shaft to hold the gears.

It can be any kind of hinge as long as it is parallel to the axles - it is ensuring the alignment of all the parts that is critical.

Bill

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #28 on: May 30, 2014, 03:56:33 PM »
Bill - did you see my earlier messages regarding ball bearing size?

I have brass and 15 of each, 4.5.  5.  6 mm ball bearings

Also, do you think a 1.5" frame all arounds sounds ok? I'd still appreciate any dimensions of your drawing if you have any.
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #29 on: May 30, 2014, 04:05:33 PM »
Quote
Bill - did you see my earlier messages regarding ball bearing size?

Yes, the bigger the hinge balls the larger the opening (although this also requires a bigger diameter spring)

ATM I am experimenting with a 15mm ball. This gives it a 66mm axle spacing (not much point in holding one large gear only)


I've been looking around at bull dog clips the largest standard type clip (70mm wide) has a maximum throat of 17mm (the spring would probably open to 20+), which is a bit too small even with small ball hinges.

Anyone know of a source of larger springs?

This design is 3" x 170mm the arms and base are 25mm wide
Bill

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #30 on: May 30, 2014, 04:56:51 PM »
Bill,
Would the 15mm bearings still sit in a 4mm hole, i.e could you drill out and experiment wit appropriate sizes?
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #31 on: May 30, 2014, 05:03:51 PM »
Bill,
Would the 15mm bearings still sit in a 4mm hole, i.e could you drill out and experiment wit appropriate sizes?

No it sits in a 12mm hole.

hmmm it's just occured to me, what is the minimum axle spacing?   putting the axles on the outside of the plates may give some useful extra room:D

Bill

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #32 on: May 30, 2014, 05:39:15 PM »
The commercial Webster design gives a maximum 3 3/4" swing between axel centres but this is generally bigger overall than this one. I appreciate practically it'll work but aesthetically odd! Also, it may be tricky holding smaller wheels if placed on the outside.
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Offline fcheslop

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #33 on: May 30, 2014, 06:02:02 PM »
Why not make it so that the pins can go either side of the frames?
Also make spacers with the bearing holes to space out the pins
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #34 on: May 30, 2014, 06:21:00 PM »
Quote
Why not make it so that the pins can go either side of the frames?

Yes there is no reason why you could not attach the balls to both side of the plate :)

This one uses 6mm hinge balls in 5mm holes with 70mm bull-dog clip springs
Bill

Offline fcheslop

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #35 on: May 31, 2014, 03:27:32 PM »
Sorry Bill , I missed youre earlier idea :doh: :doh:
what min/max are you looking at?
cheers
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #36 on: June 01, 2014, 04:10:13 AM »
Bill - what opening does that give?
Thinking about it, the opening would have to be larger than the maximum wheel diameter radius. Otherwise, the depth would allow you to fit the wheel on but if you couldnt space it to the radius, you could not mesh it with a pinion. 
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #37 on: June 01, 2014, 05:14:06 AM »
it opens to about 73mm

it is impossible to design a ball in hole type hinge that will open beyond 60 , so to get a larger opening requires a  spacer (e.g. a big ball) or longer arms.

if you need a greater angle then it a will require an enclosed hinge.


Bill

Offline PeterE

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #38 on: June 01, 2014, 08:32:32 AM »
Why not base the design around a pair of rod compasses using a sturdy ruler?

That would eliminate the difficulties of a hinge I think.

Just another idea.

BR

/Peter
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Offline PeterE

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #39 on: June 02, 2014, 04:50:16 PM »
Hmmmm, felt like I kind of stalled the discussion. Too bad and not my meaning. To try to illustrate what I was after, I quickly made a 2D sketch.

It is based not on a ruler but on two bars, say about 6 mm dia and some various sized brass blocks about 25 mm high and 10 mm thick. Should be sturdy enough. Thickness probably OK if 8 mm.

The two end pieces are pinned to limit the risk for twisting. At the right end the end block is wider and carries one of the depthing pegs. The other larger block slides sweetly on the bars without any slop at all. This block carries the other depthing peg.

To achieve a micrometer adjustment, the smaller moving block to the left of the left peg block, has a locked in thumb screw working into a thread in the adjacent peg block. With a spring between them it will be easy to adjust minutely the gear centres.

Locking the depthing pegs is done like a height gauge and locking the peg block and adjustment block is done using a cross "bar" nipping the slide rods like the arm locks on a GHT pillar tool.

This would be easy to make and if the rod holes are drilled and reamed before parting the brass bit, the distances will be exact. Probably simple to make as well.

BR

/Peter
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #40 on: June 02, 2014, 05:00:27 PM »
how do you hold the pinions (gears) while adjusting the spacing?

 :scratch:
Bill

Offline PeterE

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #41 on: June 02, 2014, 05:08:49 PM »
I thought that the depthing pegs shall allow to insert a 2mm? gear axle at the top to fit the gears on, and then when marking exchange the 2mm pins for a piece of say 5/2 mm extension piece to tap upon.

Much like the image on page 1 of this thread where the depthing pegs goes bweteen the "bars" 90 degrees compared with my sketch.

/Peter
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Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #42 on: June 02, 2014, 05:25:39 PM »
I thought that the depthing pegs shall allow to insert a 2mm? gear axle at the top to fit the gears on, and then when marking exchange the 2mm pins for a piece of say 5/2 mm extension piece to tap upon.

Much like the image on page 1 of this thread where the depthing pegs goes bweteen the "bars" 90 degrees compared with my sketch.

/Peter

OK sould work :)
Bill

Offline BillTodd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #43 on: June 02, 2014, 05:29:04 PM »
Chris here's a drawing of the plate. There's nothing critical except the spacing of the axle holder balls which are for a 3mm 0r 4mm axle (is that large enough?)

BTW the max opening is 83mm not 73 as previously stated.
Bill

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #44 on: June 04, 2014, 07:24:42 PM »
Hi guys and hi Bill, I know you have been putting a lot of effort into helping me here. I'm actually moving - it's all happened unbelievably quick and although we still have a good number of weeks until move day, getting the workshop in storage was priority as everything is so heavy and I happened to have some storage offered to me! I genuinely went and purchased that 1/4" brass and then the next day turned the power off to my machines and now they are gone!

I can assure you, this will be the first project on the list when I get going again.....whenever this may be!

In the mean time I keen to get a plan in place and continue with the discussion!
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Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #45 on: June 04, 2014, 07:26:01 PM »
3mm is plenty for the runners.
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Offline mattinker

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #46 on: June 04, 2014, 09:02:54 PM »
Although I have nothing to do with clock making, this thread is of great interest and value. I am enjoying the development process! I wish I had a use for a Gear Depth Tool, it looks like a satisfying build.

Looking forward to you getting your workshop running Chris, hope the move goes well.

Regards, Matthew.

Offline raynerd

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #47 on: June 06, 2014, 10:30:35 AM »
Peter - I`m terrible at visualising things! I still can picture where the runners are held?
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Offline PeterE

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #48 on: June 06, 2014, 05:09:20 PM »
Peter - I`m terrible at visualising things! I still can picture where the runners are held?
Need to do some sketches, I'll be back.

/Peter
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Offline PeterE

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Re: Gear Depthing Tool Plans- ideas, suggestions, plans, machining order
« Reply #49 on: June 07, 2014, 05:11:54 PM »
OK, some sketching later. To begin, I did some more thinking about the micrometer adjustment screw and changed the design as shown at B in the sketch below.

This way I can use an ordinary thumb screw and keep it tight using a spring between the thumb screw runner and the depthing peg runner.

When it comes to locking the runners to the bars I would use the same type of lock as I used on the bed stop for my lathe.

The distance setting pin is locked using an intersecting "bolt" secured with a thumb nut. The works is shown below.

I think it is easy to see which is the locking "bolt" in the picture.

I think this type of lock is good. Easy to handle and locks with strength.

Hope this helps.

BR

/Peter
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