Author Topic: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces  (Read 15036 times)

Offline vtsteam

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A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« on: June 01, 2014, 08:02:12 PM »
Well now that the engine is running on the old Ford 850, and the backhoe works, it's time to give it a loader up front.

When purchased it had a weird truck snow plow attachment on the loader arms which had been modified by the owner. The whole rig was a mile long, and I have no Idea how he maneuvered with that. When I asked where the original bucket was, he said he had discarded it. He was a professional welder, so I'm a bit confused about how bad it could have been.

Anyway, he said he had a second set of arms and another bucket to fit, he just hadn't put them on. I received those with the tractor.

Like everything else about this purchase, he left out a few rather important details. Like the arms were from a different loader, and wouldn't fit this tractor loader frame. When I started work on the tractor, I scoured the parts for identification marks and eventually worked out that the loader frame and first set of modified arms were a Wagner WF3 loader, and the bucket and spare lift arms were from Ford Dearborn loader.

As purchased with snow plow and shortened and modified Wagner arms:



The other arms -- Ford Dearborn type:



And the matching bucket:



« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:32:54 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #1 on: June 01, 2014, 08:34:23 PM »
When I first considered this problem a few years ago, I thought maybe the Ford arms would fit the Wagner frame with some simple modifications. They were the same width and the structural tubing was the same diameter.

So I removed the Wagner arms and positioned the Ford arms to check fit. Unfortunately I soon realized that though many dimensions matched, the Ford arms were designed for hydraulic cylinders placed far back on th chassis -- near the rear wheel axle. The Wagner arms were designed for cylindrs positioned further forward at bout the level of the foot pedals. And there was no easy way to modify the Ford arms for a different piston attach point, or the Wagner frame for a different cylinder attach point.

The Wagner arms were in much worse shape than the Ford arms -- they had been cut short, and a heavy cross member welded in. After taking the arms off and turning them over I saw major damage, cracks and shoddy welded repairs on the bottom:


« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:33:41 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2014, 08:46:58 PM »
Fast forward a few years to today. Thinking the old problem over. The Ford arms had some surface rust, but were otherwise perfect. They used a dual cylinder bucket tilt system with a very heavy tubular cross member. All of the hydraulic cylinders and hoses were present. The arms looked quite good and well designed.

The Wagner had originally had a single cylinder, and it's support system and cross members were really in poor shape, as seen in the photo above.

What to do?  Yesterday I hit on the idea of cutting out all of the Wagner's cross member structure, and grafting the Ford's tube ends to the Wagner's tube ends. The portion of the Ford tubes containing its cross member structure and cylinders and bucket attachment would be grafted onto the Wagner tubes. This would be possible because he tubing is the same size for both sets of arms and the spacing is the same within about a half inch.

So today I started cutting the Wagner cross structure out:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:34:29 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #3 on: June 01, 2014, 08:51:41 PM »
One arm free:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:35:02 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #4 on: June 01, 2014, 09:00:41 PM »
Center section fully dismembered:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:36:41 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #5 on: June 01, 2014, 09:12:09 PM »
Next step was to position the arms back on the tractor.

Here the right arm is back on it's pivot and the hydraulic cylinder attached. I will do the same for the left arm. This is where I finished for today.

My plan is to cut off the Ford tubes leaving plenty of extra length for the bucket end, and position them with the bucket and hydraulic tilt cylinders here in front of the tractor to make a final decision on length and position. Then prepare the ends and weld them together.

This is definitely a MadModders topic!  :loco::dremel: = :headbang:



« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:36:22 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline awemawson

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #6 on: June 02, 2014, 01:31:59 AM »
Oh boy Steve, you've given yourself a job and a half there!

Are you going to reinforce the tube weld with an internal slip fit tube or just butt them together? Quite a lot of stress on that weld.
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #7 on: June 02, 2014, 12:25:23 PM »
Sleeving Andrew, for sure. Ran out of oxy yesterday, and the supplier didn't have an exchange tank today, so can't do any more carnage until tomorrow.
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #8 on: June 05, 2014, 02:10:39 PM »
It's been raining for a couple of days now, but just before that I managed to cut apart the Ford Dearborn arms and drag the end and the bucket up to the tractor. So here are the three parts I hope to meld together into one working loader -- if the rain ever stops....

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:37:19 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #9 on: June 06, 2014, 08:13:14 PM »
After locating the pins for the bucket today in storage and taking a more careful look at the Ford arms, I realized the bucket pivot bushings in the tubes were shot. They were supposed to be 1" bushings, but they were widened out to 1-3/8" and chipped or broken:





« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:38:13 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #10 on: June 06, 2014, 08:18:54 PM »
So I decided to grind them flush, and then use a die grinder to remove the old bushing.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:39:02 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #11 on: June 06, 2014, 08:23:41 PM »
Turned out I didn't need the grinder to get the old bushings out -- the welds hadn't penetrated the tube arms, so I was able to knock the bushings out with a punch and chisel:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:39:34 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #12 on: June 06, 2014, 08:27:38 PM »
This turned out to be a lot easier than I'd thought (so far!)

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:40:09 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #13 on: June 06, 2014, 08:33:06 PM »
I cleaned the inside of the bore to 1-7/16" with a die grinder -- it was just a bit undersized to start -- oval -- probably from work loads.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 10:40:52 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #14 on: June 06, 2014, 08:39:18 PM »
Lester, my local OldeTyme machine shop supplier couldn't find any 1-7/16" OD x 1" ID DOM tubing -- I wasn't surprised, but he seemed to think it was a possibility so we searched through ancient piles of cutoffs strewn amongst the old mchnes for 10 minutes before giving up.

Instead I bought a couple of chunks of cold rolled to make bushings from. They were a tight fit in the 3" arm pipes:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:09:38 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #15 on: June 06, 2014, 09:03:01 PM »
With the bushings and holes sized and fit checked, it was time to make swarf out of all the nice metal in the middle of the bushings.

About 2/3 the way through this one, my daughter knocked on the door of the shed and said dinner was in ten minutes. So it was time to clean up, and that's where i left things for today.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:10:31 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #16 on: June 07, 2014, 09:26:16 PM »



Bushings finished. I put them in the arms, and ran a rod between them to make sure they stayed in line. Tack welded them, then pulled the rod (didn't want to trap it), and welded the bushings all round.

Cleaned up the spatter, then I reamed them 1.003" in place. Had a nice slip fit over the pins. Just as I was finishing again the messenger for supper time arrived, and we called it a day. Feels like we're on our way!
 
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:11:52 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline Manxmodder

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #17 on: June 10, 2014, 06:43:09 PM »
Hi Steve,just wondering how this hybrid front loader is looking now.....OZ.(definitely a plan B)
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #18 on: June 10, 2014, 07:43:00 PM »
Well Oz, embarrassed to say it was looking a lot heavier after the lower arm assembly dropped onto my foot while I was shifting things into position to see how short I should cut it back. Hopped around cursing myself in order to ignore the pain for a few minutes until I could catch my breath. Limped up to the house and got the boot off, and got an ice bag onto it -- two toes mainly took the hit.

Kept ice on all evening, then took aspirin and put on antiseptic ointment where the hide rubbed off a little. Looked surprisingly good the next morning, no toes apparently broken, no black and blue, a little swelling that's all, and most of the pain gone. Took it easy the next day, didn't walk around -- sat, read and yapped here probably too much :coffee: but I was bored sitting still!

Today I was right again -- lucky, the boots saved me, and the ice prevented swelling damage -- up and about. But my lovely and kind wife hinted that since all was well, I ought to put the beaded tongue and groove ceiling up in the bathroom as promised a couple weeks ago -- apparently she was tired of having the lumber stacked up in  the living room all that time. Can you imagine?  :whip:

So I played carpenter this afternoon got the stuff up -- moved the light fixture, too -- looks quite nice if I do say so myself -- and I've bought myself more time on the tractor.

So tomorrow....... :dremel:   And I'll watch where I put my feet this time!


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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #19 on: June 10, 2014, 07:57:00 PM »
So here's a couple things I'm mulling over, preparing for joining the arms tomorrow (if the weather allows):

1.) How long should I make the arms?

Shorter is all around better, assuming it clears the hood ornament!

But --- if I make it short, I won't get much back tilt on the bucket when it's down. Plenty of forward dump. But the geometry doesn't allow much movement the other way. I don't know if this is acceptable, or usual. Lifting the whole arm, naturally does tilt the bucket back the higher it goes. But at ground level, back tilt is limited.

2.) Sleeving the inside -- how to weld it? I was thinking of putting the sleeve half way up, inside the upper tube arm, welding it around, grinding the weld to clean up, then slipping the lower tube over the sleeve, leaving a small gap to the upper tube, then welding that, and thereby filling the gap.

But I'm open to suggestions from better welders than I am.
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Online mattinker

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #20 on: June 10, 2014, 08:13:13 PM »
Steve,

The length is a hard one, difficult to know!

To weld the sleeves in place, I would drill 1/2" holes, staggered around the outer tubes and plug weld, that way you can weld  them close to their ends where the weld can give most strength.

Regards, Matthew

Offline Manxmodder

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #21 on: June 10, 2014, 08:54:36 PM »
Steve,it goes without saying that the plugs to fit inside the tubes will want to be as snug a fit as you can manage,this increases the strength and load capability of the joint immensely.

I buy in to Matt's idea of including some plug welds to prevent any fretting movement of the plugs inside the tubes.

Looking at you photo in reply #8 I would completely remove the short steel webbing ribs that are stitch welded to the top outer ends of the arms on the tractor and after the two sets of tube ends have been set up on the plugs and welded all the way round I would cut some new webbing ribs to extend right over the tube weld joints and stitch weld them similarly to the originals. These ribs are what will take a lot of the tension load when the bucket is full so really need to be as one piece rathe than trying to butt weld an extension onto the existing ones.

As far as judging the best length for the arms I would suggest maybe planning on tack welding the assembly together sufficiently to be strong enough to fire the tractor up and give the bucket a trial lift.

This way you should be able to judge if you need to grind the tack welds of and shorten the arms more or if they look ok from the initial trial then set about welding them up permanently.

My experience with making hybrid fork lift attachments and loaders for tractors in the past has always required the  need for a little experimentation of this nature.

If the arms are a bit overly long to start with they can easily be shortened to a more suitable geometry,but if they're cut too short then  :Doh:   ......OZ.
Helixes aren't always downward spirals,sometimes they're screwed up

Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #22 on: June 10, 2014, 09:42:12 PM »
Thanks kindly, Matt and Oz.

I was wondering about plug welds. Didn't know if it would become a stress riser on top and bottom skins. Or at least if mine would! But if you think not, seems like a good idea.

Oz, I don't have a picture of it yet but I had already cut the upper arm tubes back a foot further than the older photo in post #8 to get rid of all the weirdness welded together at the bottom.

I had left about 6" of the upper webbing intact, past the cut. I just cut the tube away from it. I figured the webbing would extend over the new tube and be welded there -- so I think that's similar to what you were suggesting.

The 1" dia tie rod over the upper tube was left full length. It will weld into the gusset on the lower arms just like the thinner flat tie rods that they had originally.  And I will locate them on the gussets in the same location that the originals were.

The tubes as best I can guess are 2-1/2" nominal std which I believe makes them 2.875" dia. OD actual, and .203" wall thickness. So lessee, that's  2.469" ID.

I think I actually measured less, but will have to double check tomorrow. This is early fifties pipe, and it's not easy to guess at actual dimensions from current pipe charts.

2" modern sch 40 pipe is supposed to be 2.375 OD, so I was thinking to use that as the sleeve inside the other -- I'll have to check the fit in reality. The fit might be actually a little tight depending on whether there is a seam in the larger stuff. I can file that back if there is -- or maybe there isn't one.

I guess all this stuff will depend on seeing what is actually there and trying it. If it's too loose I'll have to probably go to solid, turned plug -- but hope not to have to do that.





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Offline awemawson

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #23 on: June 11, 2014, 02:48:19 AM »
Steve, sorry to hear about the toes - you were of course wearing your Toetector safety boots   :bugeye:

If you go solid for your inner joining pieces you will be adding a lot of weight. Can you not find a pipe that is marginally too large and slice it along it's length like a roll pin to make it fit. Tap it half an inch or so into one tube then weld the cut - making a tube that is exactly the right size.
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #24 on: June 11, 2014, 04:47:37 AM »
Steve, sorry to hear about the toes - you were of course wearing your Toetector safety boots   :bugeye:

If you go solid for your inner joining pieces you will be adding a lot of weight. Can you not find a pipe that is marginally too large and slice it along it's length like a roll pin to make it fit. Tap it half an inch or so into one tube then weld the cut - making a tube that is exactly the right size.

Steve,

if you split the inner pipe, use a line of three or four holes in the outer to plug weld and weld the inner split tube at the same time!

Regards, Matthew

Offline nickle

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #25 on: June 11, 2014, 06:46:55 AM »
Steve,

This is a really interesting project and I am hanging out for every post. I nearly cheered out loud when I watched your video of the engine running.

Because this is a load bearing structure that will lift all manner of loads over its life (that hook on the bucket looks useful) I think it is well worth thinking through the structure and making it as bomb proof as possible.

I wonder if there is a thick walled pipe or tube that could be turned down to fit inside the existing tubing without losing too much strength?  That pipe will be in compression when under load with the one inch bar over the top of the web in tension so buckling will be the likely failure mode of the pipe. Making the join under the webbing with an internal sleeve should help prevent that. I think the plug welds will be a good idea also.

The other thing that is on my mind is the reduction in cross bracing. The Wagner had a lot of diagonal bracing between the arms and the ford arms lack that. This might end up producing a set of arms which twist more and sway from side to side more. The bracing on your Wagner arms has had a hard life judging by the damage so it must carry some load when in use. Maybe it would be worth replicating the tube between the webbing on the Wagner with new material and diagonally bracing to the ford cross member.

As far as length goes how hard would it be to find someone on the web to measure an un modified set of Wagner arms? There seems to be a few mentions on various tractor forums with pictures of restored and un modified loaders. Maybe someone will be able to help.

I'm looking forward to seeing you pull this together and shift some earth. It's a great project and will be a real asset to you.

Regards

Nick

Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #26 on: June 11, 2014, 08:20:46 AM »
Thank you all for help and suggestions!

Here's an updated photo before going further,

You can see the upper tubes have been shortened and the web extensions which were left. Also the round tie rods were left intact. The Ford Dearborn bucket end has a heavy cross tube and gussets for support. It uses dual hydraulic cylinders at each side of the bucket/arm structure. You can see the attach points and gussets for these.

The Wagner arms used a single hydraulic cylinder. It was attached to a much lighter cross beam higher up on the arms, with diagonal tube supports. It was this whole hydraulic support structure that didn't fare well over time -- the pressures are enormous, and applied between the arms. I think the Ford design is better. It localizes the pressure and doesn't try to break the arms apart or put big bending stresses on the cross beam. I think that is why it lasted better.

Nevertheless there was some repair sistering of the lower tube with angle iron -- you can see it here. Stresses over time flex and fatigue these transition areas where gussets stop. Modern arms are built differently -- usually rectangular section and tapered to prevent stress points. They also tend to be shorter -- the earliest loader arms look overly long in the old advertisements I've seen -- often loading bales of hay into barn lofts. They weren't considered as much earth moving implements as used for manure shifting and hay lifting. the early fifties saw a shift in function, so these are somewhere in between.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:16:00 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #27 on: June 11, 2014, 07:39:52 PM »
Sorry, couldn't progress with the tractor -- it rained all day.  :(
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Offline Scuba1

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #28 on: June 11, 2014, 08:02:02 PM »
I love this thread as I like to rebuild and tinker with old machinery myself and to be honest i never gave the length and different functions of the old compared to new loaders a thought. Its great how this unravels the history of farm tractors.

ATB

Michael
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #29 on: June 11, 2014, 08:50:44 PM »
Thanks Michael. Here is some information I've collected on the Wagner and Ford Dearborn loaders.

Wagner frame --- looks like the bucket is quite far forward -- so that helps.



and a page from a brochure from an Ebay listing:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:19:03 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline Scuba1

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #30 on: June 11, 2014, 09:03:29 PM »
It makes total sense to me. Now that I think about it. When I was a kid we used to help putting hay bales in the barn and stack them " by hand" with the help of a pitch fork and some claw hooks. Heck, these day ya could not fit an average bale on the back of a pickup truck ... not even thinking big modern round bales here either. So yes the demands have changed a lot in the last few decades. I guess it has all to do with less people working per acre if that makes sense.

ATB

Michael
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #31 on: June 11, 2014, 09:06:32 PM »
Here's the Ford Dearborn. It looks to me like the bucket is at about maximum rear tilt in the ground position -- judging by the hydraulic cylinder extension -- which makes me more comfortable with what I see placing the parts together on the tractor.  I guess that's the way they are.


Interesting points: notice the double bucket cylinders. Also notice the main arm cylinders go way back to the rear axle. The Wagner cylinders are much further forward -- near the foot pedals and land on an auxiliary pipe frame.

The Ford frame goes way back, making it seem hard to get into the tractor seat. I like the Wagner better here!

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:20:43 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline vtsteam

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #32 on: June 11, 2014, 09:37:03 PM »
Wagner loader -- slightly different becaus of the nearly complete infill of the upper tie rods on the arms -- otherwise, a good view of the single cylinder structure and bucket.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:21:45 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #33 on: June 11, 2014, 09:57:21 PM »
And the Ford Dearborn style again. Another thing to notice besides the difficult entry is that the frame attaches to the arms with large pins. On the Wagner there is a tube that runs all the way across the frame at that location and the arms attach to a solid axle inside the tube. I like that system better -- it provides more rigidity to the frame and the arms and ties everything together.

It's just coincidence that I like the particular features of the odd pieces I received to put together, rather than the other way around. But I may have lucked into the best features of each design.

ps. I see there's an angle iron sister piece -- part of a repair -- at the same location on the arm tube, just above the bucket gusset.

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:22:46 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #34 on: June 15, 2014, 06:29:03 PM »
After 4 days of rain, the sun finally began to shine yesterday, but I couldn't do much work on the tractor -- too much mowing to try to catch up. I did get an hour to cut the tubes down to what I hoped was finished length, square them and grind the weld areas clean.

Today, Father's Day, I was treated to breakfast by my wife and daughter at the Grange, and then paid a visit to friends at the flying field for an hour. Finally after lunch it was time to get back to the Ford 850 loader project in earnest!

First thing I did was grind off paint on the tie rods near the gusset so I could heat them with less smoke using the oxy-propane torch and bend them up a bit so they wouldn't be in the way.

With that done I cut two lengths of 2" pipe to fit inside the 2-1/2" pipe of the arms as sleeves. these were ground clean and test fit in the arms:



« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:24:07 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #35 on: June 15, 2014, 06:32:42 PM »
Then they were welded:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:24:44 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #36 on: June 15, 2014, 06:36:28 PM »
And the welds ground back:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:25:18 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #37 on: June 15, 2014, 06:42:59 PM »
Working alone outside on uneven ground, it was really tough to get the arms aligned so they could slide together. Quite a struggle! The bottom was not only heavy, but unbalanced -- lifting one tube tended to swivel the other. You can see the heated and bent tie rods in this photo -- they would have made fitting the arms even harder if left straight. But finally I got the far tube started.
Phew!  :Doh::

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:25:59 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #38 on: June 15, 2014, 06:46:53 PM »
Going together:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:26:57 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #39 on: June 15, 2014, 06:49:57 PM »
We're there!!  :ddb:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:27:48 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #40 on: June 15, 2014, 06:53:43 PM »
And tacked in place.  I couldn't get all the tacks done because the tractor was too far from my welder -- cables barely reached. I managed the last tack only with a brand new stick electrode for extra reach!  Tomorrow I will replace the tractor ignition, start it and move it back closer to the shed!

Good to see the arms finally in place!  :beer:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:28:26 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #41 on: June 15, 2014, 08:02:42 PM »
With all the rain the hay is really up fast:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:29:32 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline RussellT

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #42 on: June 16, 2014, 05:12:39 AM »
It's just coincidence that I like the particular features of the odd pieces I received to put together, rather than the other way around. But I may have lucked into the best features of each design.

I don't think it's coincidence.  You don't like the weak parts of the design.  The weak parts have failed.  You're left with the better parts of the design. :thumbup:

Russell

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #43 on: June 16, 2014, 02:31:59 PM »
Well I suppose that's true, Russell.

Working on it now, just in for lunch -- got the ignition system rewired with a new solenoid and battery ground strap replaced. The transmission interlock starter switch is now functional. (It had been replaced by a dash mount universal switch, but I restored the stock setup). Found a troubled distributor rotor -- something bad happened to it somewhere along the line -- chipped plastic and the tip bent round! Anyway, fixed.

Started up the tractor, and lifted the tacked-together arms in order to move the tractor back. Arm hydraulics worked fine, and I go it moved back. Working on welding the arms, now....
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Offline awemawson

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #44 on: June 16, 2014, 02:45:21 PM »
Glad progress is being made  :thumbup:

Don't waggle those arms too much while only tacked !
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #45 on: June 16, 2014, 08:51:54 PM »
No problem, Andrew, only lifted them four inches off the ground!

I spent the entire afternoon welding heating and grinding. Welding is not my forte, and I'm slow at it. Particularly out of position stick welding with a buzz box. I used 6011, which in my hands, isn't pretty. But by the end of the day I think I got good penetration, kept the slag out, and ground back anything I didn't like, and then re-welded.

It was a hot day with plenty of deer flies buzzing around, and a bunch of wasps that had tried to start homes in various tractor nooks and didn't like all the noise and smoke. I have to say this kind of thing, though satisfying in the end, isn't my favorite kind of metal work! I wish I was a better welder.

I reheated the tie rods and bent them down to the gussets. Just before that I did run into a bit of a puzzle....I was flame cutting off the tie-rod  tag ends -- flat bar from the Ford end, when I hit some kind of weld material in a clumpy repair that I couldn't cut with the torch. I'd noticed this stuff before -- kind of shiny, not a typical weld. I don't know what it was. Maybe some kind of stainless or nickel rod? I eventually had to cut it off with the grinder.

Finally the rods were bent down and welded in place, and I was done for the day.  Well, had to do one more thing just to see it -- I shifted the bucket over by hand and shot the pivot pins in to see it all together. It looked good. :ddb:
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #46 on: June 17, 2014, 02:17:17 AM »
Steve
Almost certainly the shiny weld had been made using "dissimilar" rods. Rods containing nickel  intended for welding dissimilar metals.
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #47 on: June 26, 2014, 03:26:15 PM »
Thanks Andrew.

Been a bit of a pause while I remodeled the bathroom. But back at it now.

Bucket on, hydraulics in:





« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:30:22 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #48 on: June 26, 2014, 03:39:08 PM »
This was a trial lift:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:31:10 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #49 on: June 26, 2014, 03:47:22 PM »
View of the backhoe extended:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:31:55 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #50 on: June 26, 2014, 03:55:04 PM »
I couldn't resist scooping up a bucket full, and then putting it back.

This thing is really great. Powerful. It's going to make a big difference around here:

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:32:41 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #51 on: June 26, 2014, 04:06:03 PM »
Not sure why the dog liked it so much. He posed himself.

It's quite a long stretch, stem to stern!

« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:33:29 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #52 on: June 26, 2014, 04:27:33 PM »
Looking very good Steve  :thumbup:

I'm still fighting my hedge flail mounting. Last set up was a total failure - twisted far too much for safety - in fact snapped one of the anti sway chains  (*)when I tried an experimental lift. Now got some axle mounting brackets and need to modify it for axle mounting but times against me  :(


(* actually the chain link was a lousy weld with little penetration but never the less took a few tons of force to snap)
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #53 on: June 27, 2014, 01:38:42 AM »
Looking good. What's left on the list before it's declared fully operational?

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #54 on: June 27, 2014, 08:03:36 PM »
Thanks Andrew!

I was looking for your flail mod thread again, but couldn't find it.

I helped a farmer friend today mount a flail mower, and also fixed his fire wood processor (bar oiler needed work).

Nickle, thanks!

I'm replacing and securing most of the hydraulic hoses on the tractor. I've replaced about 10 so far. That's taking a little while -- the whole rat's nest was in really bad shape. I'm going to send for some of the longer ones, as having them made up locally is an extravagant gesture. They're about a third the price from online outfits.

After that, I'll need to:

Do the final valve adjustment
Mount the gas tank and connect it.
Secure the wiring
Get the gauges connected properly, and secured in the dash
Change the oil filter
Drain and refill and bleed the hydraulic system.
Secure the radiator (it's loose)
Adjust the clutch free pedal
Mount the sheet metal panels (there seems to be  missing frame work forward to attach them to -- probably have to make something).
Finish painting

Then I can start digging!   :ddb:

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #55 on: June 28, 2014, 04:01:29 AM »
Steve I admire your persistence in driving this project forwards - seems that you are practically there now.

(the hedge flail thing was tacked into the thread about enlarging a hole)
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #56 on: June 29, 2014, 12:49:20 PM »
Thanks Andrew! The encouragement and advice here on this very unusual forum always makes it easier to get through the tough parts of a project, when discouragement can creep in. I especially appreciate the help in milling that head when I didn't have enough table travel and you gave suggestions for overhanging the end, and how to start the cut. The head milling worked out really well considering it was technically beyond the capacity of the mil.

 :mmr:

I'm going to look for your flail thread again.

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #57 on: June 29, 2014, 05:41:43 PM »
Hi Steve, very interesting thread and will be a useful bit of kit too , I had an old Grey Fergie TEF20 at one point and was wanting to get various impliments for it but never got past a flail mower in the end.

 Cheers Mick

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #58 on: July 01, 2014, 08:55:43 PM »
Mick I looked up the TEF20, and a LOT of that tractor looks very familiar!  :coffee:


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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #59 on: July 20, 2014, 11:09:23 AM »
Look what I found.



The recent heavy rains washed away some sand by my foundry furnace, and I saw what looked like a bit of pipe sticking out. Picked it up and realized it looked kind of familiar!

 :doh:
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:34:39 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #60 on: July 20, 2014, 11:15:50 AM »
Sods Law isn't it ! Well now at least you have a shelf spare !

Well spotted
Andrew Mawson
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #61 on: May 31, 2015, 09:02:37 PM »


I've finally been using the Ford -- here (yesterday) clearing a turnaround for our so-called driveway -- something I've wanted for years. Here headed uphill in somewhat thick going. At the top I'll cut in the site for the new cistern I'll be building to tide us over for future drought(s).

I did clear up to that spot yesterday, but it rained all day today (naturally -- I'm working on a drought project) so I burned brush instead. I've been unable to do that because open fires had been banned. But with the two rains in the past week and a wet day all day today, it seemed a safe bet. I happened to see our local fire chief at the country store this morning when I was getting a cup of coffee, and asked him if it was okay to burn. He said, sure is!. He'd had 10 calls this morning asking the same thing, and was planning to burn brush himself today!
« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:35:11 PM by vtsteam »
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #62 on: June 08, 2015, 05:53:14 PM »
Just a few more photos to show how well the Ford has worked out. It starts instantly -- head problems are a thing of the past -- it's been working hard pulling three big (20") pine stumps out of the ground, pulling out a dozen logs buried by the former owner of this land, a logging company:



Since everything is a slope here I had to dig down about 3 feet on the high side to get a level base for the new cistern. This is undisturbed earth, no fill. The backhoe worked well to cut in fairly evenly: I hardly had to use a shovel,




The whole site -- foundation dig on right, road straight ahead, buried stuff piled on left. I was able to cut in the turnaround road, pull out concrete and log rubble, pull stumps, and dig the foundation on 10 gallons of gas. It was truly a jungle out there to start.  Compare how it looks here with the way it was in the picture last post, when I was working on adding the road.

All in all very happy with my cobbled together tractor with the blown head and mismatched front end loader. It's finally doing what I want!  :ddb:




« Last Edit: July 21, 2017, 11:37:41 PM by vtsteam »
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Offline Kjelle

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #63 on: June 09, 2015, 07:25:57 AM »
Looking good, buddy! Part of me is envious, seems like a nice place to live, you have..
Be careful, I and most of the rest of MM like to see more of your posts, and not on your healing/hospital tenure!

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Offline AdeV

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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #64 on: June 09, 2015, 11:02:56 AM »
Steve - I've just read this entire thread from end to end, dunno how I missed it last year - superb work! And a proper happy ending too! Except it's not really an ending, but a new beginning...

I have machine envy again. Oh dear...

Remember that old saying - if all you've got is a hammer, then everything looks like a nail? Well, I can imagine all of your projects just now seem to require a hole in the ground!  :lol:
Cheers!
Ade.
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Location: Wallasey, Merseyside. A long way from anywhere.
Or: Zhengzhou, China. An even longer way from anywhere...
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Re: A loader for the Ford 850 from bits and pieces
« Reply #65 on: July 21, 2017, 11:41:29 PM »
And Ade I missed your last post, too! Thanks so much.  :beer:

Another bunch of thread photos restored after the Photobucket debacle.....  :dremel:
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