Author Topic: Rotary table chuck mount  (Read 22455 times)

bogstandard

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Rotary table chuck mount
« on: October 19, 2009, 03:56:56 PM »
Here is another post about my interchangeable tooling upgrade. I bet you lot are getting fed up seeing them, but as far as I am concerned they have got to be done, and I may as well show you what I get up to rather than stay quiet.


So this is what I am replacing this time, the MT adapter with a Myford nose on it.
As I have mentioned before, these have kept me going for a while, but I am just not happy with some of the surface finishes I am getting due to lack of rigidity. I just don't like cleaning up machining marks.




This big blue lump is what I am going to make it out of. Ralph gave me a long length of this stuff, I have a feeling in the back of my mind that it is cast iron, but I am not sure. I think it is an end of day pour and everything left over got chucked in the pot. You can just see a light patch on the cut face. This is a counterbalance weight off a garage door and they just stuck a length of bent rod in the casting box to make a hanging loop, that is a bit of the steel rod.
But this doesn't have to withstand massive forces, so it will do.




The lump was mounted into the 3 jaw and I attacked the hard outer skin with a pair of roughing tools. The skin must have been around 1/16th of an inch thick, but once the tool got under it, it came away fairly easy. I am preparing the metal here for all the following machining operations. I have created a main datum bottom face and a perfectly square side to it.




The centre hole was then drilled and fine bored to accept a close tolerance fit of the MT locating spigot. The spigot had previously had a non tapered area machined on it. It is that close fitting machined end and this bored hole that will align the adapter perfectly central on the RT. So that is all the datums produced to close standards. Now I had to make sure that everything else was square to these datums.




Out came the soft jaw chuck.
I love working with soft jaws, because if they are used correctly, your accuracy and concentricity of parts takes a massive leap forwards, and for stuff larger than normal collet work, knocks four jaw working into the shadows, because it is so easy to do.




With the jaws tightened down onto a bit of stock bar, the jaws are gently bored until you can just fit your turned part into the made recess.
Once that stage is reached, the barstock is removed and every burr on the machined area is dressed down and inside the jaws are cleaned up spotless.




The datum faces can now be clamped up in the soft jaws, and gently bedded into the recess.
You can now work with confidence in the knowledge that anything you machine up outside the jaws will be perfectly square and concentric to the datum areas.
The part will not be removed from the chuck until every machining exercise is completed.




The roughing tools were brought into action again, and they soon got rid of the tough outer skin and a lot of the bulk on the part.




Then everything was turned up in preparation for single point cutting the thread.




The threading and other size getting machining was carried out, then I bored down to meet the previously bored hole. but this time it was about 10 thou larger in diameter. I had drilled and tapped the end of the locating spigot, and by feeding a bolt down this hole, I can remove the spigot if I need to hold a bit of long rod in the chuck, this will allow me to hold a rod over 6" long down in the RT.




This shot shows the locating spigot in position and the new backplate with threaded nose.




This is how it will fit together.




The backplate just needs four holes drilling and I need to make up the t-nuts and bolts. Because these have been shown how to do before, I am classing this post as finished.

I have visitors tomorrow (Madmodder members) and I will be having my new computer delivered as well, so those two little jobs still to be done will have to wait until another time.


Bogs

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2009, 04:12:43 PM »
I forgot a piccy from the above post, so here it is.

This shows the end of the spigot after having the flat machined and has just been drilled and tapped for the jacking out screw.


Bogs

Offline spuddevans

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #2 on: October 19, 2009, 04:20:53 PM »
Here is another post about my interchangeable tooling upgrade. I bet you lot are getting fed up seeing them, but as far as I am concerned they have got to be done, and I may as well show you what I get up to rather than stay quiet.

Well I for one am very glad you are documenting your interchangable tooling, I would like to have a similar system for my own, so I am really glad to read your experiences, I am taking notes  :coffee:

So keep these interchangeable posts coming, they are great reading and very useful too. :thumbup: :thumbup:


Tim
Measure with a micrometer, mark with chalk, cut with an axe  -  MI0TME

Offline CrewCab

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #3 on: October 19, 2009, 04:57:34 PM »
Cheers John ............. another thread we all all enjoy and hopefully copy in the future  :thumbup:

Have a great day tomorrow guys, pictures are mandatory remember  :beer:

CC

Offline dsquire

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #4 on: October 19, 2009, 06:08:47 PM »
bogstandard

John, I never get tired of reading your post when you are improving your equipment or making new. Its all part of the learning process which is a large part of the enjoyment of these forums. Another job well done as usual John. :clap: :clap: :clap:

Cheers  :beer:

Don
Good, better, best.
Never let it rest,
'til your good is better,
and your better best

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #5 on: October 21, 2009, 04:42:03 AM »
Don,

I don't mind admitting to my mistakes, it is all part of the cycle of learning.

I made a mistake with the original concept because I didn't realise how flimsy the MT tapers would actually be.

Hopefully, this time I have got it right.

Don't get me wrong, the original would and did work just fine for normal machining, just not strong and rigid enough for what I want to do.

Next week, I should be able to give the idea a good try out, and see whether it needs to go back to the drawing board yet again.


John


bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #6 on: November 09, 2009, 05:32:23 PM »
After leaving this post in a bit of limbo, I got off my backside today and finished it off.

So this is what was done first. I got the holes in the adapter plate drilled by bodging together a holder and drilling them using the RT.
As you can see, the t-nuts are a rather weird shape, that is because with the disc being so small, I was working at the very inner limits of the slots. They hold just fine.
I marked up the adapter with a '0', this hole, if ever the plate is removed, will be put back in line with the '0' on the scale around the RT.




This is the side you very rarely see. But I noticed that the slots and holes were there if ever I wanted to put locating blocks onto the bottom. So why not?




So I got my aligning blocks off the mill, and they fitted perfectly in the slots. So they are the same as the mill, 0.625" wide.
This is going to be real easy for a change. So I grabbed a bit of steel scrap and set to work.




First off, the bar was turned down to 0.624", this will allow for a minor irregularity in the mill table, if there is one.
It was then drilled thru with a 5mm drill, and a recess put in the end for a cap screw head. Two were made, both 1/2" long.





They were screwed into position in the slots.




It fitted perfectly onto the mill table.




And a check with a square showed they had done their job.




The RT was bolted down into it's final resting place, and I got the RT perfectly aligned with the quill.




Reset the DRO to zero, just to make sure nothing had moved when I do the next check.




The aligning spigot was dropped into the 2MT centre of the RT, and the adapter was bolted down into position.
Checking to make sure the table hadn't moved at all, I checked the runout of the centre bore of the adapter.

Just under 1 thou runout, in fact as close as I can see, 0.0008".

That will do me just fine.




As an added bonus, I have gained about an inch in throat depth over the previous fitting.




So at this time, I class this as a good result.


Bogs

Offline NickG

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #7 on: November 10, 2009, 09:16:37 AM »
Well done Bogs, by doing some good work on your own tools the capability any capacity of your machinery is growing.

Nick :thumbup:
Location: County Durham (North East England)

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #8 on: November 10, 2009, 11:01:28 AM »
Nick,

These results prove that using cheap soft jaws does work when needing to make very close tolerance concentric parts. I don't think I could have got it this close even if I had used a four jaw.

I only have two things to do to complete the interchangeable system, one is the make an ER32 collet chuck to a Myford fitting and the other is to get the clamping sorted for the 5" faceplate I made for the system.

But I have my first repair to the mill before doing anything else.


John

Offline Jonny

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #9 on: November 10, 2009, 03:45:41 PM »
Nice one Bogs i have same Vertex 8" rotary table very few about and shame they have 4 slots.

Mines predominantly set up for one purpose with 5" chuck on. Recently chucks gone out of alignment after almost 10 years to 0.23mm and need to do over Christmas.
Chuck i used came off my old Myford but done away with back plate wanted total rigidity, made up a spindle and brutally drilled straight through chuck in to table and tapped it where T nuts couldnt be used. Just one basic job i go through 22 revolutions machining at every 30 degrees with dividing plates, done well over 500, cant grumble its had some stick and more than paid for itself several hundred times.
Theres a way of getting rid of the backlash in rotary table as well, not bothered me up to now as i go in one direction but hopefully do it over Christmas as well with the coolant.

Offline crabsign69

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #10 on: November 10, 2009, 05:34:02 PM »
 :beer:  i love all these great ways of doing things great write up bogs thank u  gives me more ideas on how too mount my own chuck.   :mmr:

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #11 on: November 11, 2009, 05:44:47 PM »
Thanks for the praise gents, not really needed, but it is appreciated.

Rather than start another topic, I thought I would stick this little bit onto the end of this post, seeing it is all part of the RT work.

I made this faceplate a while ago, out of a cheapo Myford lathe backplate, and up until now it hasn't been used because I was looking for the right small clamping system to use.
Recently, I found out that RDG sold cheap swan neck clamps in just the right size I needed. Unfortunately, they are made to use 6mm or 1/4" clamp bolts, not the 4mm I had drilled and tapped my faceplate with.




So I turned up some stainless top hat adapters.




The faceplate is now ready for use.




Another interchangeable tooling job out of the way, just one to go.


Bogs

Offline DeereGuy

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #12 on: November 11, 2009, 07:18:31 PM »
Nice job John, I use my face plate more than I thought I would.


bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #13 on: November 11, 2009, 11:41:29 PM »
Bob,

After seeing your faceplate on the RT, I will have to see if I can squeeze the Keats angle plate onto this one. That will then give me easy square or oblong bar mounting.

Doesn't anything ever come to an end?


Bogs

Russel

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #14 on: November 12, 2009, 12:30:03 AM »
Thanks for the praise gents, not really needed, but it is appreciated.

Your posts are very inspiring! I usually don't post because I don't have anything usefull to add, but... I don't think I am the only one that simply reads your small (and large) project posts with great interest, without posting. Just keep in mind that the stuff you share is prized by many of use, so don't hesitate to post any project large or small.

Russ

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #15 on: November 12, 2009, 02:51:59 AM »
Russ,

At times, like at the moment, I am a tinkerer. Just catching up on jobs that need doing around the shop.

I am also an avid picture taker (not photographer) and someone who talks a lot (mainly to myself, or Bandit), so doing these small posts comes naturally, and if anyone can get a little enjoyment, inspiration or knowledge out of them, then it is a worthwhile thing I do.

It is like keeping a diary of what I get up to, and if luck is with me today, I will have a couple of more pages to write before the end of the day.

When you say you have nothing to post, then you must be doing nothing at all in your shop.

Even tiny mundane things have an interest to some people, so if you just doodle on a scrap pad, take a piccy and let us have a look. You never know, someone on here might interpret doodles, and they will be able to tell you some things you don't know about yourself. This site isn't to do with one thing, almost anything goes.


Bogs
« Last Edit: November 12, 2009, 06:13:24 AM by bogstandard »

Offline Gerhard Olivier

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #16 on: November 12, 2009, 03:43:31 AM »
Thanks John love the way you make tools to cover all the possibilities.

2 questions .  1 can you show a pic of the roughing tool
2 how do you stop the steel parts from marking (rust tarnish) Like I get on the 5c collets????and on self make steel tools.

Gerhard
Guernsey
Channel Islands

Russel

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #17 on: November 12, 2009, 10:52:00 AM »
When you say you have nothing to post, then you must be doing nothing at all in your shop.

Even tiny mundane things have an interest to some people, so if you just doodle on a scrap pad, take a piccy and let us have a look. You never know, someone on here might interpret doodles, and they will be able to tell you some things you don't know about yourself. This site isn't to do with one thing, almost anything goes.


Bogs

Well, I usually don't have anything to add to most of your posts, like your post "Getting the mill add on just right." That is something I have never seen before, and that I find facinating! Anyway, that is besides the point. You are right, I should be posting more of the stuff I do with my little machine tools. I'll try to practice what I preach!

Russ

Offline Jonny

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #18 on: November 13, 2009, 05:18:44 PM »
Rather than reply to a DRO installation, i think this will be better here.

The X axis ideally needs to be on the front but as you can see and i have the same as Bogs here. Access to bed stops, tripper for power feed but the most detrimental is when using a rotary table even worse with big dividing plates dropping down the side of the bed.
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y39/Deere_X475guy/Machine%20Shop/D1-4%20reciever/IMG00128-20090703-1619.jpg

The only solution to mount the X axis on the rear. Mounting on the front would need well over 3" throw to then get at bed stops but would still infringe on dividing plate handle, just a thought rather than lose 38mm of Y travel and risk breaking the scale when swarf builds up at rear.
 
Bogs you need a quick release handle to replace that nut on the QR tool post, first thing i did got same one and size just need lots more tool holders at the right price.

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #19 on: November 13, 2009, 05:51:33 PM »
Quote
Bogs you need a quick release handle to replace that nut on the QR tool post,


Why would I need a handle when the only time the nut gets undone is when I am screwcutting or removing the toolpost to mount the grinder?

Offline NickG

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2009, 09:44:19 AM »
Don't you need to slacken the nut to operate the cam or does the nut clamp the tool post down without affecting the cam? I know you always have the post clocked square due to the tooling you use.

Nick
Location: County Durham (North East England)

bogstandard

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Re: Rotary table chuck mount
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2009, 01:03:48 PM »
Nick,

The nut just locks the main block down solid, the handle still rotates allowing tool changes.

I suppose if I used a lot more HSS that hadn't been ground up to quite the right angles, then slackening off to get them something like would be advantageous, but as you stated Nick, I always have my block square most of the time, as I grind up my own HSS tooling on the surface grinder, and the angles are correct. The same as tipped tooling, that is designed to be fed at the correct angle when the toolpost is set square.

I think it is just quirky me, I like everything running perfectly parallel and square, unlike my own mentor, who swings the thing on all points of the compass, but he is rough a**sed, I have even seen him hand grind up an old HT bolt for doing a quickie boring bar on a piece of ali, and it worked a treat. If that was me, it would have bent like a banana on the first cut.

I suppose it wouldn't be right if we all did things the same way.

John