started a new project

[chuck foster]

i have a model of a domestic hit and miss gas engine, it is my best running engine so i thought i should make another one.

the casting kit is $395.00 u.s. so i thought i would fabricate it from bar stock and welded bits and pieces.

here is a picture of the engine i'm about to copy, now this is a picture of bob herders engine.


i looked through all my engine pictures and i don't have one of my model and right now it is all torn apart 

the first part i'am making is the cylinder. it starts out as a big round hunk of 12L14 steel




started turning it to size





the bore turned out much better than the picture shows. i sharpened the boring bar after the picture was taken.

thats all for tonight, i will post some picture of the original cylinder along side the one i'm making.

chuck 

[Bernd]

Chuck,

A steady rest might help get a better finish in the bore. It's a bit scary seeing that much weight hang out so far from the chuck unsupported.

Nice looking engine by the way.

Bernd

[sbwhart]

Cracking engine there Chuck 

I've got a ambition to make a hit an miss from bar stock one day so I'll be following this with great interest.

Is that a South bend lathe your using there (hope I've not asked this ? before)

Have fun

Stew

[bogstandard]

Chuck,

It's really great watching an engine grow from barstock.

I will be following your ordeal with great expectations.


Bogs

[Stilldrillin]

You`re off to a good start on a great project Chuck! 

I`m watching...... 

David D

[Darren]

That's a nice looking engine your friend Bob has there. I'm guessing it's not full size, but not small either?

Looks like you have a cylinder head on the table. Are you lucky enough to have parts to copy?

[chuck foster]

thanks for the kind words guys  it helps a project move in the right direction.

bernd you are 100% right about the steady rest, but i don't have one for my lathe ...........yet.
        after sharpening the boring bar the finish turned out perfect, now all i have to do is lap the bore and it will be finished.

stew, it is indeed a 9" south bend. i have had this lathe for the last 10 years and i have had very few problems with it.

darren, the engine has 8" diameter flywheels and the whole engine stands about 13" to 14" tall. it is a 1/3 scale of a 1903 domestic engine.
         yes i have a model to copy, i bought it from a guy about 8 or 9 years ago. he worked on the engine but half way through the build he just gave up on it............so i got it for about $25.00.
 i finished building the engine and now i would like a second one (no idea why but i do)

so i thought i better show some more pictures of what i have been doing.

after all the lathe work was done i had to machine some cut outs where the cylinder mounts to the base.
i mounted the cylinder upside down on my rotary table and used the boring head and cutter to machine the cutouts.



while it was in the mill i drilled the four mounting holes, these will allow the cylinder to be bolted to the four columns that hold the cylinder to the base.



now that i have finished the cylinder i will show it sitting beside the original that i copied. the cylinder is aprox. 3 1/2" tall with a 1.312 dia. bore.







i also made the valves but i only took a picture of them when they were finished. they are one piece and started out as a lump of 3/4" round bar.
after about half and hour of machining each, they were finished



well that does it for tonight, hope to get more done tomorrow night but i think the wife has other ideas for my time..............

chuck 

[Bernd]

bernd you are 100% right about the steady rest, but i don't have one for my lathe ...........yet.
        after sharpening the boring bar the finish turned out perfect, now all i have to do is lap the bore and it will be finished.

Hey, as long as you got it done and it looks good. It just looked a little scary. I also now realize that the size wasn't that big as far as the cylinder was concerned. It just looked big in the chuck, that's all.

well that does it for tonight, hope to get more done tomorrow night but i think the wife has other ideas for my time..............

chuck 

I'm leaving this one alone. It is a family forum after all and I hardly know you.     

Regards,
Bernd

[sbwhart]

Hi Chuck

Good job 

Have you made the valves from silver steel (drill rod).

Stew

[sorveltaja]

Interesting build, Chuck .

I assume, that rebuilding the engine from stock material gives kind of closer view to its original design.

Keep up the good work .

[NickG]

Wow, think everybody will be watching this Chuck. That is heavy engineering! So is it a full size engine you are copying? The bore looks good.

Nick

[Ned Ludd]

Hi Chuck,
I know I'm new here and I don't want to be a wet blanket, but, is not the original
that you are copying water cooled?
Ned Ludd   

[rleete]

Yes, as an optional feature.

[chuck foster]

well i had one of those nights out in the shop were nothing went right so after about an hour i stopped and came in to the house to surf the net 

to answer a few questions here we go.

bernd: man did i walk into that one 

stew: the valves are made from just good old hot rolled steel, i have used silver steel but hot rolled works just as well.

sorveltaja: building from bar stock makes it harder to make the parts look original because you have to machine all surfaces . were as castings you only have to machine the nessesary surfaces and the rest is left rough like the original castings.  (hope that makes sense)

nick g: the engine im copying is a 1/3 scale of a full size engine. the model has 8" dia. flywheels and the original has 24" dia. flywheels.

ned ludd: yes the original is water cooled and the model will be water cooled as well. most of my models are water cooled but i never run water in
them cause they never get hot running at shows and i run them all day. the only time they stop is when they run out of fuel.

hope this answered your questions, if not let me know and i will try again. it is hard for me to explain things some times, i'm not a fluid with the lingo as bogs is. 

chuck 

[Bernd]

bernd: man did i walk into that one 

Yeah, well I probably open my mouth some where along the line and it'll be your turn to stick my foot in my mouth. 

hope this answered your questions, if not let me know and i will try again. it is hard for me to explain things some times, i'm not a fluid with the lingo as bogs is. 

chuck 

I don't think any body can be as fluid as Bog's, but I do know at least on contender on here that is. 

I have the same problem. Sometimes I find it hard to put into words what I'm doing or thinking. So your not alone on this.

BTW I'm liking this thread. Somewere on the list of things to build I'm going to add a hit-n-miss engine. Keep up the good work and take your time.

Bernd

[chuck foster]

well here's tonight's installment on this adventure 

i need to fabricate an ignitor for this engine and here is a picture of the one i'm copying



and here's the business end



so i began with a hunk of bronze



i then milled out the basic shape



used the edge finder so as to locate the various holes in the ignitor body



all the holes are now drilled, the hole on the far right is for bolts to hold the ignitor on the engine, the next hole is for the movable electrode, the next hole is for the insulate electrode and last but not least is the other bolt hole.



the finished ignitor body beside the original that i copied from



now i guess it would be a good idea to explain what an ignitor is and how it works, so i have copied a page that i found on the net that should explain it all

If the ends of two wires forming part of an electric circuit are brought in contact, closing the circuit and then quickly separated, a bright spark will be produced as the contact is broken. This phenomenon underlies the operative principle of what is known as the MAKE and BREAK system of ignition. In old stationary gas engine practice, the simplest kind of ignitor used city lighting direct current, with an incandescent lamp in series in order to prevent the current from being too strong.

An ignitor is made up of a set of mechanical points, much like the points in early vintage automobiles, except they are located INSIDE the combustion chamber. One side is insulated, the other side is at frame ground and they are mounted to an assembly that PROTRUDES INTO the combustion chamber. A capacitor (condenser) is NOT used across these points because sparking across the points is WANTED, unlike in a car where the heat and metal consumption of sparks would wear away the surface of the points needlessly. When the ignitor points "make" or close, a current will build up in an inductive coil that is in a series circuit. Then at the appropriate time, the points "break" and an inductive "kick" causes an arc to draw across the opening points. The gap opening is about 1/16". Even battery voltage itself will cause a small spark, but the more coil inductance that is in series with the points and battery, the hotter and bluer the arc created.

i hope that explains what an ignitor is and what it does.

chuck 

[NickG]

Cheers Chuck - that was going to be my question, I have never heard of or seen one of those before. Is this engine a hit and miss type? Ignore that, I have just looked at the pic and I can see it is.

Great project. What is the bore and stroke? This will actually have some useable power won't it?

Nick

[ozzie46]

  Great stuff on the igniter. Just the kind of stuff I need.

 Ron

[chuck foster]

i'm glad the ignitor info was of some use. i have worked on the full size engines for the last 30 years so i sometimes
forget that some people don't know all the little details of these engines.
if i forget to explain something just ask and i will do my best to clarifiy it for you.

now on with tonight's adventure, making the trip pawl for the ignitor. it is the silver part circled in red



now i could have fabricated this part by silver soldering two pieces together but i thought i would try and making it out of one piece using my RT.
so i started with a round hunk of steel and drilled a 1/8" dia hole in the middle (using the lathe)



first i laid out a rough sketch of it with a marker then i just plunged a 1/8" dia end mill in to the steel to a depth of .300". i went to .300" because when i
part this finished piece off it has to be .250 thick.



then i advanced the RT 5 degrees and plunged the end mill again doing this procedure till i had the trip pawl outline cut.





next i put the piece in the lathe and parted it off, now this next picture shows the job half done



and finally the finished part beside the old one, it just needs to be trimmed to length.




the next piece to make was the movable electrode this was a fairly simple thing to make so i will only show the finished part.



it consists of three pieces silver soldered together, all that is left to do to it now is silver solder the nickel contact points were the red square is.

hopefully tomorrow i will be able to finish the ignitor and see if it will spark.
now it is off to listen to an old time radio program you british gent's might remember..............hancocks half hour.

chuck 

[Bernd]

Chuck,

Nice bit of work making that all out of the solid. Who needs CNC. 

Bernd

[Ned Ludd]

Hi Chuck,
A British gent here, well English but lets not quibble. New bits looking good, better in fact than original. How long do you think it will take to finish whole thing?
Thinking of Hancock, if you go to the BBC home page and then select "I-player", then radio stations and then "7" . This radio station specializes in repeats of old radio shows, the I-player allows you to listen to these shows for up to a week after broadcast, and not an advert break to be heard! I don't think it is country sensitive, unlike some US TV shows .
Ned Ludd

[chuck foster]

bernd: i would love to try cnc but i don't have the room for such things (shop is very small). i just got the RT about 3 or 4 months ago and i have not used it much so i thought why not try it out and see what i could make with it.

ned: thanks for the info on the bbc and old time radio shows. i have about 20,000 shows on disc so more is good  now if i could get them from the bbc site and record them on to disk for later listening 

chuck 

[chuck foster]

well another day has passed and i managed to get a few small parts done.

the first picture shows the govenor assembly (in the red square). this is on the model engine i'm copying. as you can see it is all oily and dirty....after all it has years worth of running.



in order to machine these parts i soft solder the piece to be machined to a piece of brass round stock. the round stock is held in the three jaw chuck in the lathe and the RT.



the next picture shows the govenor eccentric strap being machined out.



here the strap is finished and it just needs to be removed from the brass round stock



removed from round stock. it is amazing how strong soft solder is, i have never had a solder joint come apart while machining a part.



and here we have the finished part, it just needs a good polish and it will be done.



next up is the govenor weight. it was soldered to round stock just like the strap.



and here are both govenor pieces finished and ready to go on the new engine.



tomorrow i hope to finish a few pieces for the ignitor and it will be done.

ned i forgot to answer your question about how long will it take to finish the whole engine......................well that a very good question, if i continue to work at the pace i'm going at right now i'm hoping to have it all done by the first week of january (but i'm not telling what year) 

take care guys
                     chuck 

[Brass_Machine]

Holy crap there Chuck! Forgive me, I have been quite ill the last 5 months so I have missed a few things. What a banging start you got going there!

Eric

[Darren]

That soldering trick is neat, thanks for sharing that as I'm sure it will solve a lot of holding problems....

Just gotta figure out how to remember all these tips when the time comes