Paypal negative balance - can they take it?

[raynerd]

Hi Guys

I sold a batch of fountain pens to a bloke in Spain for £74. After he had paid I removed the funds from paypal to my bank account. The buyer says he never received the goods and since I have no tracking proof, but I`ve removed the funds from my account, paypal awarded the buyer his money back leaving me with a "negative" balance. I`m just not in a position to give this money back, I`ve lost the pens and although in reality I haven`t lost the money, since I`ve spent it weeks ago it feels like I`ve lost the £74 as well if I gave it back.

Now I don`t mean to be rude but this really isn`t a "Paypal sucks" thread or even a "Always post tracked" thread....I know I know I know all that. Paypal sucks and if you are going to use it send parcels tracked! I want to know where I stand in terms of this negative balance.

Paypal don`t seem to be able to take the money from my account or they would have, I`ve also seen messages where they have asked me to autherise them to take this payment. I`ve not done this yet and I`m more than happy to close this account and never use it again but can they take it from my account, fine me or take me to court....where do I stand? I`ve read a few things on the internet but they all seem to contradict each other, has anyone got any experience?

Chris

[Darren]

Welcome to Paypal .... I have warned you not to take it ..... Note if you had tracking it would have made no difference.

Paypal will most likely send the bailiffs round if you don't sort out the neg balance. Sad but true ... sorry ...

You should not have taken paypal for payment ....

[bogstandard]

You have actually made a legally binding contract with Paypal, otherwise they would never have let you use the account as a means of money transfer.

I know it is after the horse has bolted, but whenever I have had money paid into my Paypal account, I don't touch it until everything is clear cut and I know there will be no comebacks.

If you don't allow Paypal to take the money out of the account you said was guaranteed, I am sure they will take legal action to recover from you what would now be classed as a debt, and all the legal fees associated with it (those are the killer bits, a couple of hundred squid usually).

Paypal will be like any other credit agency, don't pay them, and you can be blacklisted for years. As soon as they start action against you, even if you then make a payment to them, you will already be listed as a bad payer, and it is a pigs own of a job to get off it. If you want to move house and apply for a mortgage, want a bank loan, a credit card, buy anything on tick, you may as well kiss it goodbye. Everything you want to buy will be a cash only transaction. If you already have credit cards and such, or bank loans, if they get wind of it, they might start putting the clamps on as well. Refusing to give any further credit or extensions.

I know all this because I went thru it many years ago, when I was made redundant in the early 80's, and I am still going thru it now, with my daughter, and even though I have offered to clear her small debts, she will still be blacklisted. I think it is either 5 or 6 years it stays against your name, so whenever anyone does a financial search about you during those years, you show up as a bad payer.

It is up to you to decide whether you want to live with a bad credit rating for many years for such a small sum.

There is no way you should blame Paypal, they are only protecting themselves, like any other financial institution would, and cannot be held reponsible for other peoples actions. As they say, buyer beware, in your case, seller beware.

If I was you, cough up, and see if you have any redress against the postal service, but I doubt it by what you have already told us.


Bogs

[raynerd]

 

[NickG]

Nightmare, how is this happening so often, it's ridiculous. I don't understand how, if you have proof of delivery, they can still take the money back off you! Surely they couldn't do that until the seller had received the item back in it's original condition and the buyer would have to provide proof of that. Although Darren did say they can just send a blank envelope back recorded delivery, but then you'd get them to check that?

It looks like a lot of the problems are coming from overseas buyers, is that the case? Also, what are these peoples feedback like, it can't be good if they've done it more than once?

Nick

[Darren]

Nick, it'a a lot worse than I think you are describing .... for one thing those conning buyers can't be left bad feedback.

It's not an over seas buyers thing, it happens here just the same .....

Here's on for you that came up today, you can sift through the rest if it interests you

https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/have-your-say/Comments/December-2009/Paypal-refund-on-unfathomable-grounds/?title=

[John Rudd]

I'm sorry to hear of your dilemma Chris....

Here's what happened to me....

I came across a debit on my PP account for an Ipod phone, which was being sold by a seller in Manchester...

The buyer was someone from Hungary or somewhere like that...

I emailed the seller saying I hadnt bought the goods and my account was the subject of a fraudulent act which I reported to Ebay and PP...

To ensure the funds didnt leave my bank I cancelled the direct debit and told PP...They tried to claim back the funds 

from the seller which weren't mine....I tried to explain that no money had been taken from me....( how this mess got
started is beyond me...)

I threatened them that I would escalate the issue with Paypal if they didnt re-instate my account....Didnt make a

ha'peth of difference....



 The seller retained the goods and the money which appeared from nowhere...the buyer got 

nothing and I had to set up another DD with PP and my bank...


Bottom line for me....Dont accept Paypal payments for anything from anyone....

[dsquire]

Hi Gang

I have never used Ebay or PayPal so I have no personal experience with it. I decided a long time ago before MadModder was even in existence that I would not be using either one of them.

I have read Darrens post before on here so I know that he has been scr??ed over royally by them as have others. I followed the link that Darren posted and read a bunch of the questions and answers about apparently legal organized robbery.


After reading that I have come to the conclusion that anybody that continues to use that system after reading about it should not whine or complain as they knew what to expect. It boggles the mind that some people will just keep asking for more, more, more and then wonder why. 

Thats my 2 cents worth CASH not PayPal

Cheers 

Don

Nick, it'a a lot worse than I think you are describing .... for one thing those conning buyers can't be left bad feedback.

It's not an over seas buyers thing, it happens here just the same .....

Here's on for you that came up today, you can sift through the rest if it interests you

https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/have-your-say/Comments/December-2009/Paypal-refund-on-unfathomable-grounds/?title=

[Bernd]

Have to agree with you on this one Don. 

I've never or will I ever use either of those venues for buying. If everybody that uses PayPal would quite using it, I bet it would straighten this out in a hurry. I always say, "Hit 'em in the pocket book".

I love using cash. It's untraceable. 

Bernd

[Darren]

Well it's easy for those that don't use or need these services to sit on the fence casting opinions.

The real facts are much harder to deal with ..... the rest of us have been "forced" to use them esp PayPal.

Saying "I won't" so it must be your fault shows a real mis-understanding of the whole situation in my opinion.

[bogstandard]

Actually this post has turned into yet ANOTHER and ANOTHER and ANOTHER Paypal bashing exercise rather than what the original question was about, which I think ended with Chris doing a sob job.

To hopefully put an end to all this, I actually support Paypal wholeheartedly.

All I can say is that over the long time that I have used it, Paypal has done nothing but good for me, so I personally don't give a rat's a**e about what it gets up to with other people. I have had dealings with bad sellers, and everything has turned out to my satisfaction, and I will tell you now, they were real bad sellers, so it works both ways. Why should I personally give up or even question a system that works great for me on the say so of a few who have had bad dealings with rogues, whether thru their own fault or not.

Because I don't use credit cards, Paypal has kept the world open to me for when I want to purchase something, and not just thru Ebay.

Would you expect anyone to compensate you for getting yourself into a deal with some unsavoury character or the actions of an abysmal postal system? If the answer is no, then why expect Paypal to do it.

Like any other financial company would do, they would just put things back to a situation where they are not involved, and expect yourself to take the necessary action to recover your cash thru whatever means you have at your disposal. If that means getting the police involved because of fraud, or claiming off the postal services for lost packages, then that is what needs to be done.

The only thing that I do agree with on this argument is that sellers should also be able to give bad reports as well. Other than that, nothing.



Bogs

[Darren]

Keep using it and your time will come ....

There have been many just like you who say "F*&^ you Jack I'm OK" only to be sorry later...

As for not posting on the topic .... why not, do you think others should not be made aware of how they may be ripped off before it happens? After all these are hardly isolated cases are they.

Or is it just another "I'm Ok....................."

I do get tired of you trying to dictate what others should or should not say or do. We are friends John, long may it continue. But at 40 odd years old my mother stopped instructing me long ago and I'm not about to let someone else take her place.

This is the water Cooler section ... deliberately set-up for off beat topics. As they say, if you don't like it ................

Rant over, hopefully we will still be able to chat later 

[NickG]

Touch wood, I haven't had anything go wrong yet but it has definitely put me off selling and I have held back on selling anything since these posts arose. The problem I have is that ebay is an auction site and in an auction it's supposed to be sold as seen and a legally binding contract, so the only person authorised to give any money back should be the seller in my opinion. Buy at risk is the way it works in auctions.

Nick

[AdeV]

As a buyer, PayPal is fabulous. Completely free to use, and great comeback if anything goes wrong with the deal. I've used their dispute resolution twice, both times they found (rightly, as it happens...) in my favour.

As a seller, PayPal makes me nervous. Not only do I hear of the worrisome reports of people being forced to repay money even though the buyer is a crook, but the even more alarming stories of PayPal freezing accounts with a positive balance & refusing to subsequently release those funds, even once the dispute in question is resolved. Unfortunately, if you want to sell on eBay (which, arguably, attracts the largest possible audience of non-commercial buyers on the planet), you're stuck with accepting PayPal. It's the rules.

[Darren]

That's right, you have to have a Paypal acc before they will let you sell on Ebay. And you can't refuse Paypal payments.
Actually cash has now been banned, mention cash in your listing and you can expect trouble from Ebay.

Then you get jokers like this https://www.paypal-talk.co.uk/have-your-say/Comments/December-2009/Ebay-sale/?title=

I'm totally amazed at the constant stream of new ways buyers find to use the Paypal system to rip sellers off.

I've said this before, there are scams for buyers too and we are not talking about selling doggy goods.

[crabsign69]

yup ur the next sucker in line they (the buyer )get there order and then say no i did not receive my order then pay jerks will give them there money back and u the sucker will have to payone waqy or the other .  welcome to pay pall  we will screw u over whether u like it or not.  never and i will repeat NEVER DO BUSINESS with pay jerks

ya im here paypall if u dont like come over ill give u whats coming to U                 hey guys we need more smilies

[bogstandard]

Darren,

So we are expected to listen to you continually droning on whenever you have the chance, about your complaints about Paypal and Ebay, and to support you in your fight against them, when some of us have have no problems with their service, in fact, by the service I have received, I would in fact recommend them to people in my position, who have no other easy way of making overseas payments, and it is very easy.

With reference to the personal things you mentioned.

I personally took great offence at what you said, and if you consider it true, then other people must also think the same.

If that is the case, then I have no other option open to me, because of my personal beliefs and morals, to leave the site altogether.

[Bernd]

OK, guys. This is getting out of hand. Everybody to opposite corners and cool off right now or I'll lock the thread.

Crabsign69 please cool your jets. No need to use such langauge.

Bernd

[NickG]

That's the silly thing about this - as Darren said, you can't ask for payment on collection and you can't list an item without having payment by paypal as an option. So if the winning bidder want to pay by paypal it's up to them - and it seems like the sensible thing to do if you're a buyer as you get a refund at the bat of an eye lid. But why, surely the seller should be able to chose how he/she wants to receive payment. If ebay just continue protecting buyers to the hilt, I can't see the site surviving except for an advertising medium for businesses. But even then, if people rip them off enough they'll end up just creating their own websites.

The only way to minimise the risk is to only accept bids from people with 100% good feedback, not just 1 or 2 but a lot of positive feedback, and if possible from somewhere local or within driving distance. Then you just go and sort it out personally. But then you're not making use of the massive ebay market place. I can't see me selling anything on there again now.

I haven't had a problem but I think selling stuff I would just be waiting for it to happen now.

Nick

[cedge]

Where ya off to this time, John?  You're really running out of places to leave.

Steve

[spuddevans]

and if you consider it true, then other people must also think the same.

If that is the case,

I dont think it is the case that everybody thinks the same as one or other members, we all have our own way of thinking, and whatever we either agree or disagree with most likely will not amount to a great hill of beans in the grand scheme of things. Sometimes we all can go a little too far in the things we feel passionate about, and we all can over-react to anothers words as well.

What I'm trying to say is that it would be a shame for you to leave the site over this, John. I'm sure that I am not alone in really appreciating the efforts you have put in here to help and instruct newbies like me, and I have learned a lot from you and from all the others on here. Just dont judge everyone as thinking the same way.

Let's not go throwing out the baby with the bathwater here, maybe take a few steps back and not do anything rash. I find that most things can look a bit clearer when given a little space and a little time.

Just my 2pence worth,

Tim

[Darren]

There are 21 posts in this thread, before this one only four were mine .... hardly droning.

John, your post was childish, offensive, and yet "again" you deliberately attacked the OP with snidey remarks. (that was really what sparked me off, not what you directed at me) This seems to be something you try to do at every opportunity despite the fact that they never respond, nor give you reason to behave in such a way. I'm sure they do not want this behaviour and neither do the rest of us.

To everyone else inc Bernd. I'm sorry but I just don't think it's any way for any member here to behave. Esp a more mature person that should know better.

John, if we fall out then so be it, the worlds a big place and life is too short.

In future, if you don't like the subject of a thread then just pass it by, we all have different interests and opinions as this thread shows having several participants. It's certainly not up to one member to tell the rest to "shut up" or direct a path of thought.

If you or anyone really feels strongly about anything here then contact a moderator instead of behaving like you own the place.

In future I suggest you do not try to publicly humiliate me (or anyone else here) as I'm perfectly capable of biting back. Instead I would suggest a quiet word privately. It would have gone down much more smoothly.

[Baldrocker]

Bogs/Darren
PMT is a bitch aint it?
BR

[Darren]

Enough silliness ...now locked