Author Topic: Ball and Ogive turning...  (Read 38946 times)

Offline Divided he ad

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Ball and Ogive turning...
« on: August 16, 2008, 04:19:33 AM »
Some of you will have seen this type of stuff done to death.... But for those who haven't.... here are a few vids and a photo of the newest developement... A MadModder premier.... Oh yes it's first public apperance!!


Ball turning.... Tool design by Steve Bedair (http://www.bedair.org/Ball/ball.html) Very nice guy and Genius. IMO!


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=f4pwUw0G3RQ


Cone/Ogive turning also known as a spinner.....


http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=s_KRElCauTM


AND NOW GENTLEMEN...POSSIBLY LAYDEES? HERE FOR THE FIRST TIME IN PUBLIC

The new cutter design.....


RCMT 06  mounted in a removable shaft to allow bigger Dia tips (on their own shaft) to be fitted to obtain different collar radius and different finishes on concave cuts into a shaft.
This was also only polished with a bit of brass polish on a rag... No emery of any description!!


I'm away for a week Till the 22nd Aug so if you have any questions they'll have to wait untill after then!



Ralph.
« Last Edit: November 21, 2008, 11:41:11 AM by Divided he ad »
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Kludge

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #1 on: August 16, 2008, 08:59:18 AM »
These are delightful, Divided he ad ... and the sort of thing a tyro (newbie, not T Rex) like me finds quite helpful and educational. 

Ummm ... MORE! ... er, please. :)

Best regards,

Kludge

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #2 on: August 16, 2008, 09:55:08 AM »
Well I've not gone on holiday yet so.... Thank you Kludge, Sorry about the ommitance of name before I usually do sign off?

What more would you like? I have only used the new tip the once, just after making it... to create the picture you see before you.
The video is reasonably old now (few months) but is well seated and doesn't need another one to eclipse it... I'll have to come up with something else??!?!

I posted my polishing vid' in 'polishing techniques' also.

If anyone builds one I can explain how to use it pretty well, I have been making things with it for well over a year now... definately my favourite piece of tooling  ;D


I'll post some of the things I've made with it somewhere... I'll go looking for the correct part of the forum :)



Ralph.
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Kludge

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2009, 05:23:26 PM »
Well I've not gone on holiday yet so.... Thank you Kludge, Sorry about the ommitance of name before I usually do sign off?

Hi, Ralph,

I must apologize for the delay.  I kind of got caught up in things ...

I have the ball turner attachment Taig sells so that's not a problem; it works pretty much like yours.  I'm just looking for how to use it.  Your videos have been a great help in that regard so I think I'll wait on questions until I've made perfectly good metal into scrap bin stock.  :)

Best regards,

Kludge

Baldrocker

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2009, 07:14:45 PM »
I like that, simple but effective. I think I'll build it :thumbup:
BR

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2009, 07:57:55 PM »
Hi Kludge, no problem... I didn't know taig did a ball turning attachment..... I'll have to go take a look :thumbup:

I'm usually not too far away if you have any questions, I've pretty much got the ball making stuff figured out.... There are still some shapes I can probably find with it though??  :dremel:


BR,

Good stuff.... Post some pic's when your there, maybe even a video?





Ralph.
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Kludge

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2009, 08:17:28 PM »
Hi Kludge, no problem... I didn't know taig did a ball turning attachment..... I'll have to go take a look :thumbup:

Taig's an interesting company.  Not only are their products studies in simplicity but their bitzenpieces are used by others to make machines.  If they offered a long (around 20") bed for the lathe, I'd just get their riser blocks and make my 4-1/2" Taig into a 6" rather than scrambling around for an elderly 109 or something to rebuild. 

Anyway, I have the ball turner; I just haven't used it yet.  Yet.  :)

Best regards,

Kludge

Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #7 on: March 04, 2009, 08:55:51 PM »
Right fella's a quick note before I finally get some sleep tonight!!

I regularly monitor my youtube vid's for hit rate etc using a tool available to video posters called "insight" it allows you to check your hit's per day, demografic and a few others.... The most used by me is the "discovery" section of it....

This allows you to see the most popular sites etc where your video was linked  or embedded or what people were searching for when they found your video..... Pretty cool feature IMO.

Anyway, I was checking the discovery last week on my ball turning vid' and found a new sight that has an embedded player, so as I usually do I went to check it out...... This is what I found.....



http://www.projectsinmetal.com/ 


Well.... It is not only now the biggest hitter in my embedded section (with 5.1% of all my hits.... 52,000 of them!!! :bugeye:) but it's a bloody good site IMHO

It has had a few extra projects listed there since I found it and it has some fantastic bits listed on there..... Well worth favouriting methinks?!!


Hope you like it?


Ralph.
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Offline Bernd

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #8 on: March 04, 2009, 09:28:43 PM »
Interesting find Ralph.

Congrats on your ball turning success.  :clap:  :thumbup:

Projects in Metal was the original name of Machinist Workshop. It's one of the magazines put out by Village Press over here in the states. I wonder if it is tied in with them. I'll have to check later.

Bernd
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Offline Bourne Bill

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #9 on: March 12, 2009, 03:10:03 PM »
what type of cutting tool do you have mounted on that? (name, manufacturer?)
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Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #10 on: March 28, 2010, 10:36:19 AM »
I know this is an old thread, but the most appropriate one I think to dig up......

I attempted to build a ball turning tool. And ALMOST succeeded.... The base is turned up(I mentioned this in another thread "Indexable tools") as well as the tool holder and "L-shape" Bit holder. Because I dont have a mill yet, the parts were cut and welded (L bracket and slot in the tool holder part). For most it works well..... but.....  :(

I have a LOT of play in the tool. I will try and explain it as best I can. You see, where the tool holder and base are held together by the one bolt from the bottom.... It is there where I believe the problem lies. When I tighten it properly, I cant swing the base 'around'. If I give it enough slack to swing/articulate, I have a lot of 'slop'. So I cant use the tool properly. Can anyone please shed some light on how I can dela with this problem? I have thought of having like a dove tail design for the base, but have NO IDEA how to do this only on a lathe..... :bang:
So much to learn, so little time - Author Unknown

Offline Pelallito

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #11 on: March 28, 2010, 11:14:02 AM »
Zeroaxe,
Before somebody beats me to it- :worthless:
Seriously, now, post pictures of your ball turner and people will be able to give you help. To cut a dove tail on a lathe you need a dove tail cutter and a milling adapter for the lathe. With some careful measurements and setup, you could use an angle plate holding what you want to cut at the correct height. It can be done, but will take a careful set up and light cuts.
Good luck.
Fred

Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #12 on: March 28, 2010, 12:37:06 PM »
Ok, I will try and take some snaps for you guys. But Basically it is a Steve Bedair clone...... Just dont know where I missed something to have that much play....  :bang:


Wil try and post the pics in a few hours.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #13 on: March 28, 2010, 01:58:20 PM »
I have often wondered about this very problem. The single bolt doesn't seem to be a well engineered idea?

But Ralph seems to get on well with his .... got to give him that  :clap:
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Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #14 on: March 28, 2010, 02:04:11 PM »
Ok, I am going to try and embed the video I took....

&hl=en_GB&fs=1&

The screw at the bottom has not been tightened properly, for a reason. It is to try and show what happens while I am trying to use the tool.

Below are some pics I took at the same time.












Yes, that is a bodge-job on 'clearing' the tool tip, but when in a tight spot...... this has got to do  :dremel:
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Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #15 on: March 28, 2010, 02:08:49 PM »
I have often wondered about this very problem. The single bolt doesn't seem to be a well engineered idea?

But Ralph seems to get on well with his .... got to give him that  :clap:

That is what I initially thought as well. Not quite a precise way to secure something like this?  But I built it anyway :scratch: But like you say, Ralph seems to manage :bang: :scratch: So what I thought to try and do to prevent this problem is to make the 'pocket' that the holder 'rides' in deeper and also the 'stalk' at the bottom of the holder longer  :scratch: :bang:
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Offline Bluechip

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #16 on: March 28, 2010, 02:30:02 PM »
Zeroaxe, Darren et al

Not sure whether this is appropriate to the way it is made .. but ..

Some time ago, on another site, can't remember which  ::) there were some similar posts ..

IIRC the answer is/was a BELLEVILLE washer .. I have worked on machines that used them, in case you are unfamiliar, they are a dished washer made from spring steel.

No, sorry, I don't know where to get one (thousand ?) from.

If you give me the bolt dia. I will have a shufti in my crap pile er..... Misc. Hardware Stock for you. I know I had some years ago, not used one for ages, but never slung 'em out ..

Dave BC

EDIT  Called Disc Springs etc.

http://www.bauersprings.co.uk/
« Last Edit: March 28, 2010, 02:39:35 PM by Bluechip »
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Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #17 on: March 28, 2010, 04:15:14 PM »
Here is the dovetail idea I have.... Because I have no mill yet, I will have to try and make this on the lathe. So it has to be 'multi part'. Now, if you look at the pics below, I'll try and explain on how I plan going about it....(if this is a thread highjack, let me know and I will start another thread).







In the pics above, ignore the little 'shaft' that joins the two main parts(the software I used I have to draw it like that to be able to do a 3D view). So the bottom dovetail part will be machined on the lathe with a corrosponding 'female' part which will serve as the base(PIC 3). The two parts (Pic 1 and 2) will be then screwed together with the main screw right in the middle. Once that is done, the other 4 small holes will be drilled and then the two parts can securely bolted together. If I needed some clearance(if the 'dovetail' is too tight), I was thining of using a normal paper 'washer' to space the two parts.....

What is the board's consensus on this idea?  :scratch:
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #18 on: March 28, 2010, 04:25:29 PM »
Zeroaxe, I've seen the tightening issue. You don't need all that fancy stuff!....

You've drilled straight through your turret!   :(

See the top views on Steve's plan, it doesn't go through!  http://www.bedair.org/Ball/BALL_TURNING_ROTATING_BODY.pdf



The centre bolt has to be adjusted so that when it's fully tightened (and I mean very tight!) it only just allows the turret to swivel.

You make the screw/bolt a little too long and then file a very small amount of it until when very tight against the bottom (top) of the blind hole so it just allows rotation (with oil obviously)


My version of the turner differs slightly from the plan, it has a triple step on it. IMHO to help with any play.  it has the small centre spindle, then a larger one and finally the whole turret drops into the base.


I've just found a few extra old pic's to aid the words  :)

The turret without the centre hole through it.


The extra steps.


The turret side view



Finally I used grinding paste to seat the turret correctly into the base. (see my mini ball turner thread to see how I did that)





Hope all this helps?




Ralph.



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Offline zeroaxe

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #19 on: March 28, 2010, 05:53:44 PM »
 :bugeye:

Are you serious? Is it as simple as that? I already thought of redoing the base plate so that it can fit the slots/grooves in the corss slide better. I will have to take pics to explain what I mean. Basically I am also going for a square base plate. I will also consider the 'three step' and deeper (ooooh errrrr missus!!  :lol: ).

However, I am interested in responses about my idea (even if it is negative).
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Offline Divided he ad

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #20 on: March 28, 2010, 06:16:15 PM »
Yep.... Seriously!

I've had this ball turner for near 3 years now and never had to adjust it, just tighten checked it a couple of times.... Always been good  :thumbup:

I made the base from a piece of 3/4" steel plate (once cleaned up it was thinner... I'll have to measure it).

It's a lot deeper than required in Steve's plans. hence the cutouts for the bolt holes. If you watch my videos you will see that a series of steps were cut into the front of the base plate too, so it missed the chuck!



Quote
However, I am interested in responses about my idea (even if it is negative).


I think it could have possible friction issues? it's such a large area to have metal to metal turning when force is being applied by the cut.

The shape you have chosen is very similar to a taper roller bearing. Some people have used them in their turners. I often wonder how long it is though till they have notchy cuts and have to replace/clean the bearings due to swarf ingress? Of course if there is a shoulder/guard or a very tight fitting turret then that might never happen?

Still, that's my wonderings and opinions, it may work wonderfully?

These are the things we must try for ourselves.... That's how I made my peck drill, and that works   :)



Have fun, hope it all works out.



If you need it, I can help you set it up to cut a ball rather than an ogive  (sure I've written that somewhere recently?) :thumbup:






Ralph.
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Offline Darren

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Re: Ball and Ogive turning...
« Reply #21 on: March 28, 2010, 07:51:33 PM »
Zero, your turret diameter looks very small compared to your tool height? That sounds like a recipe for lots of leverage enticing chatter.

Ralph, I'm glad you said that about the blind hole, I get it now  :thumbup:
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